Divx 5 and Gain, what a mess!

[Joebuck JR]

I just don't get why anyone would even support/talk nice a company that would even consider, let alone actually deploy software that causes so many problems.

I am fine with not using this codec ever again. I would hope the powers that be "here" would be smart enough to realize supporting this company, with even one kind word, after releasing this, leads to creditability of "0". Anyone supporting this codec must have a hidden adgenda of some kind or just be stupid.

BTW, Divx 5 has no license from mpegla. This means you can't legally release any movie encoded in this codec. You can do it, but you may find yourself in court later.

This probelm here is not divx 5, but those supporting it. I guess that makes this the correct forum.To celebrate the release of DivX5.02 I've written a brand new DivX5 guide.

[Hanty]

This topic has been covered to unto death in the DivX5 forum.

[theReal]

What I find honorable is that the divx developers seem not to be interested in preventing anyone from removing the gator software.
They could have built in better security from the first release on, but they didn't do so - what does that tell you?

[khp]

Originally posted by Joebuck JR
I am fine with not using this codec ever again.

That is your choice, although I'am a bit confused, as to what alternative codec you wish to use.

Originally posted by Joebuck JR

I would hope the powers that be "here" would be smart enough to realize supporting this company, with even one kind word, after releasing this, leads to creditability of "0". Anyone supporting this codec must have a hidden adgenda of some kind or just be stupid.


Well I think the primary purpose of this forum is to help people make the best possibe DVD backup. As such these must always remain for personal use only. For this purpose divx5 is a viable option.
If you call this a hidden agenda, I think you need glasses, or maybe you are too stupid to see this point ?

Originally posted by Joebuck JR
BTW, Divx 5 has no license from mpegla. This means you can't legally release any movie encoded in this codec. You can do it, but you may find yourself in court later.


Exacly what do you mean by this ?, as I understand it, DXN pays mpegla for the right to distribute a Mpeg-4 based codec. Unfortunatly under the current licence scheme the is also a fee for any streaming of Mpeg-4 encoded content, this includes all Mpeg-4 based codecs. I don't see how you can expect anyone but the content provider to cover this fee.

[Joebuck JR]

This is not the first unethical issue about divxnetworks to surface around here.

On several occasions the management here has started comments with tones of fighting against laws against obstruction of user rights. Although this may not be the primary point of this site, the owner has brought forth these issues solely by himself, as some sort of activist. Unfortunately, he does not have the time and/or ethics to see any of it through, leaving those that follow unguided.

The problem becomes worse, when the "CLICK" around here posture themselves above others. He turns a blind eye to their improper behavior because of their technical skills.

BTW, Divx 5 has no license from mpegla. This means you can't legally release any movie encoded in this codec. You can do it, but you may find yourself in court later.

The following paragraph means EXACTLY what it says.

As for what codec, I do not know right now. Some things are more important then a video codec. Among these are honesty, sincerity, ethics, integrity and of course the truth.

Did I jump to conclusions? I do not think so. This comes from reading this forum for a very long time. These are just my opinions and in no means am I trying to be an asshole. When I come here and read these forums I just want to barf sometimes. If it was strictly technical issues with encoding video and audio it would not bother me so much, but with the ethical tones it becomes a more serious issue. I fear the public has already been permanently screwed with the mpeg-4 codecs for a lack of any kind of true leadership.

My 1/2 cent. Two cents would have been way too hot.

aka legman

[Koepi]

Insulting the "management" here is your way of reacting against "manipulation of the people"?

Well, I don't get your point.

You're seeing conspiracies where there are none.
If this site wouldn't handle DivX issues as well, it wouldn't be a _good_ board since many, many people are using their codec and want to discuss it.

Blaming anyone here to blindly supporting them - even if "they're" ripping off open source development - is a bad thing to do.

I disliked that celebration part of the announcement as well, but it's no big issue since DXN finally solved some bad issues about their codec and added some nice features that the open source community "invented" (adding noise to the video playback)...

Well, all in all you should know that I can't really be a DivX supporter, but you will surely try to show up that this conspiracy has brain-washed me as well.

*eg*

Well, enough said, I don't want any replies other than an apology for the moderation team and Doom9. You sure crossed some borders which you better stayed in.

Regards,
Koepi

[Joebuck JR]

Originally posted by Joebuck JR
This is not the first unethical issue about divxnetworks to surface around here.

On several occasions the management here has started comments with tones of fighting against laws against obstruction of user rights. Although this may not be the primary point of this site, the owner has brought forth these issues solely by himself, as some sort of activist. Unfortunately, he does not have the time and/or ethics to see any of it through, leaving those that follow unguided.

The problem becomes worse, when the "CLICK" around here posture themselves above others. He turns a blind eye to their improper behavior because of their technical skills.

BTW, Divx 5 has no license from mpegla. This means you can't legally release any movie encoded in this codec. You can do it, but you may find yourself in court later.

The following paragraph means EXACTLY what it says.

As for what codec, I do not know right now. Some things are more important then a video codec. Among these are honesty, sincerity, ethics, integrity and of course the truth.

Did I jump to conclusions? I do not think so. This comes from reading this forum for a very long time. These are just my opinions and in no means am I trying to be an asshole. When I come here and read these forums I just want to barf sometimes. If it was strictly technical issues with encoding video and audio it would not bother me so much, but with the ethical tones it becomes a more serious issue. I fear the public has already been permanently screwed with the mpeg-4 codecs for a lack of any kind of true leadership.

My 1/2 cent. Two cents would have been way too hot.

aka legman

Where were you when that closed/locked thread was opened by blacksun to let divxnetworks reply? Surely there was clear bias there. This is the managment I accuse. If you wer enot an op here at the time or wer eout of town and never saw it...then you are excused for this alone. Otherwise, I stand by my accusation of an improper and at at times arrogrant CLICK.

There was no apoligy from managment to me for that clearly bias issue. Indeed there was nothing. You first, or are you going to pull a tough luck I am mod and ban me? Go ahead, it would be worth it for everyone to see my point proven.

Now I can go on and on. I am not responding to insult you, but to let you know that therea re people that disagree with people that do nothing, when something should be done. Supporting that codec, in anyway, in my opinion, is wrong.

Now I have been around a while and have read a lot around here. You really think I reregistered, waited days on top of the days you have to wait because I was mistaken. Hell, I have been wrong before, but I think I am right here. Do the right theng man, resign from this place or at least protest the support of a product.

They request threads opened and closed, to reply without fear of response.
They bundle their product with something a vicious as a virus.
They mislead the pubilc in to thinking that they are legeally licensed and have a guaranteed future.
They took the advancements of the open source and now are trying to say they have a right to close them.
They paided off many people for their involvment with the open source. This has been addmitted. People have been paid and now look the other way. I wonder what they signed. I bet an NDA was in there.
They charge big bucks for a license that is not supported by mpegla.
They don't disclose this VERY important fact to other companies wanting to use their codec, leaving them exposed to future law suits.
They are closed source.
The managment here supports them.

You work here bud. This is your choice. I did not imagine the comments above. Please do not belittle me in this way. I am looking for the truth and the correct actions, no more.

I would hope that opinions here , even against the management, should be allowed. I say you guys are and have made some bad calls. We all do, but we all don't put our CLICK ahead of doing what is right. Be responsible.

[TheWEF]

Hi legman!

Why did you change your nick?

IMHO you are totally overreacting.

I am not supporting anything, I am using the best stuff available. I know the gknot readme says “…is now supporting DivX5”, but you know that this is a different meaning.



2 reasons why I integrated DivX5 in GKnot:

1) I asked –h for XviD internals to support it in GKnot. I always wanted to support it because the XviD guys used gknot for a long time to normalize their statsfiles. His answer was more or less that the codec changes on a daily basis and GKnot integration is not possible atm. Asking DivX Networks I got the docs the next day.

2) I truly think that DivX 5.02 pro is the best available codec atm. Yes, much better than 3.11


In the last 2 month I’ve been working on a successor for GKnot (with the help from many of doom9’s team like dvd2svcd, DSPguru, cofferscuffs, BlackSun,…, and doom9 himself of course). It will be a totally open program with support for virtually “any” codec or encoder application.

Yes, gej is in the alpha tester team, but why not?
(I’m not in any way affiliated with DivX Networks and never was. I don’t think that anyone in doom9’s team is. I know that someone was, but is not any more. Afaik he didn’t have the best experience. )

-h and koepi know about the program as well, and they will definitely be able to use it with XviD if they want (I’m sure the will…).
Of course I hope that the free and open XviD will beat DivX, but if they can’t offer equal or better quality in the end…
I’m confident though that they will make it.

I don’t understand all the licensing stuff you are talking about continuously???
Did you ever care that divx3.11 was (and is) illegal?
XviD even must not be distributed as a binary (like lame…)
So what? – That’s not my pigeon.

So I think all your accusations are false.

wef.

p.s.:
the closed-reopened-closed thread was a big issue in the moderators forum. i can promise you that something like that will never happen again. i did not know that you never received an apology for that.
So i hope you can still accept it now
from me
in the name of the moderators team!

[DJSatane]

2) I truly think that DivX 5.02 pro is the best available codec atm. Yes, much better than 3.11

- Is that your opinion, or a fact? If so, please support it.

In my opinion, both codecs are good, however exprienced encoder with either one can make it look better than the other in various situations.

[Ookami]

@Joebuck JR (or legman)

I can only second Wef's posting (thank you Wef! GREAT posting!).

A few things to add. The thread you mention was basicly a flamewar between you and int21h (aka phreak404)! Today I would close the thread, back then I waited that some of you post some proof to your accusations (wich no one of you did)...

Then, there was this mistake by BlackSun with the closing/reopening of the thread.

As Wef said, it was a big issue, and I was one of those who voted for some rules for us moderators (such a thing cannot happen now!).

I also thought that you got a apology. Again, like Wef, I apologize for this and hope that this will be enough that you stop with your conspiracy theories... :)

As long as I am mod here you can be sure that everyone is handeld the same. Well, except when I laugh my a$$ of when Bugs Bunny posts :D .

Cheers,

Ookie.

[ppera2]

What's the point of this thread ?

I think that they made great thing with release of 3 versions of codec, so everybody can choose what is best for...

&: knifes killed more people than atomic bombs - should we forbide selling of knives ?

[Joebuck JR]

I really think you guys are missing the point. Thank you for making those changes, I did not know.

I am not that upset about the opening and closing, it was the fact that divxnetworks requested it. You guys do a lot and do have much respect from me. Would you be so kind as to think over what I am saying for a week and then we can talk it over then? I know the two of you are reasonable people and I am not trying to make a bunch of flames and problems here. That company really rubs me the wrong way. It is not one , two or even just three problems. It just keeps getting worse.

Now I do apoligize if I insulted anyone, as it was not intentional.

Please talk it over between you guys. I made several points and only the personal issues have been addressed and that was not where I was trying to pass the ball, but thanks for looking there.


Please talk or think over these issues about divxnetworks and leave me completly out of the thoughts:

They request threads opened and closed, to reply without fear of response.
They bundle their product with something a vicious as a virus.
They mislead the pubilc in to thinking that they are legeally licensed and have a guaranteed future.
They took the advancements of the open source and now are trying to say they have a right to close them.
They paided off many people for their involvment with the open source. This has been addmitted. People have been paid and now look the other way. I wonder what they signed. I bet an NDA was in there.
They charge big bucks for a license that is not supported by mpegla.
They don't disclose this VERY important fact to other companies wanting to use their codec, leaving them exposed to future law suits.
They are closed source.

I look foward to a positive action and/or reply. Thanks for your time.

[Hanty]

What is the point with your dogma? For Doom9 to forbid all traces of DivX5 from his site and allow no DivX5 related discussions?

...and repeating yourself is naff. If people do not bother to comment on it the first time then consider it ignored.

[Razor04]

Now DJ...lets be nice about all of this. I know we have argued on this issue in the past :). I have the utmost respect for TheWEF as he has made my life much easier with GKnot. There are instances where one codec is better than the other and so on. I look forward to future development both on codecs and encoding tools. This new tool that he has up his sleeve sounds very interesting...Can't wait to try it.

[Schultz]

Originally posted by Joebuck JR

They request threads opened and closed, to reply without fear of response.
They bundle their product with something a vicious as a virus.
They mislead the pubilc in to thinking that they are legeally licensed and have a guaranteed future.
They took the advancements of the open source and now are trying to say they have a right to close them.
They paided off many people for their involvment with the open source. This has been addmitted. People have been paid and now look the other way. I wonder what they signed. I bet an NDA was in there.
They charge big bucks for a license that is not supported by mpegla.
They don't disclose this VERY important fact to other companies wanting to use their codec, leaving them exposed to future law suits.
They are closed source.

I look foward to a positive action and/or reply. Thanks for your time.

Legman,
I may be incompetent here but can you prove some of this stuff that you talk about.. Like how they don't have the proper license from the mpegla for the use of the mpeg4. Also generally nothing is guereented but thats besides the point. Also from what i got from the open source thing is that they only used the new encore2 from the open source witch was on the cvs for only a short amount of time.. Which then actually hired Sparky who developed it to work for them. So really they didn't since the developer can authorize the use of his code for closed source.. but like i said again i could be way off topic on this.

[Joebuck JR]

Originally posted by Schultz


Legman,
I may be incompetent here but can you prove some of this stuff that you talk about.. Like how they don't have the proper license from the mpegla for the use of the mpeg4. Also generally nothing is guereented but thats besides the point. Also from what i got from the open source thing is that they only used the new encore2 from the open source witch was on the cvs for only a short amount of time.. Which then actually hired Sparky who developed it to work for them. So really they didn't since the developer can authorize the use of his code for closed source.. but like i said again i could be way off topic on this.

Ask him. VP of licensing ---->lhorn@mpegla.com

Divxnetworks codec uses features and processes similiar to nandub. You know where that goes.

Hanty, no man!
Thats your choice. I did not ask him to forbid it. I just said that supporting it was stupid. Do what you want. I would not dream of asking to take your freedom of choice. If this is your choice, then I see that and so does everyone else. I can't do any more then I have done. You guys need to be real on your own. Tough choice. I wonder who will have real self-respect later. I really hope everyone.

[Koepi]

"loosing self respect"?

Man, please, do yourself a favour and get a real life!

I wouldn't loose my self respect because I choose a _VIDEO COMPRESSION CO[DEC]_!

There are many things happening on this globe, so don't feel like a codec is more important than a human's life.

[Joebuck JR]

It is this forum that talks about fair use and the basic right and wrong actions of companies and governments. You are part of the group that decided that these issues should be addressed. Nice double standard. I don’t think any of you realize what a disservice and possible long-term effects you are causing by not taking a firm stand against the problems noted above.

I see the second you were challenged as to your choice of actions, then all the sudden it is an issue of having a life. This is exactly the behavior you should not be using.

You are basically saying I am a mod and f you. Nothing more. Pure arrogance. A person could not be more hypocritical then you are being right now. I expect your CLICK to come running to your rescue any minute. God forbid a mod here being challenged or even for another mod to side against another mod, even when they are clearly way out of line, like you are in the previous post. Their silence to your comments is the same as supporting them.

Take a breath of air and realize I am not out to make you look bad or cause a problem. Most of you know I have made more then one bad mistake before. Yes, it is possible that all of you have also. Big deal, I don't hate you guys for it. I only asked you to review and talk the issues over (between yourselves) for a week. If you don't want to do that, then don't. Just please don't fill this thread with unconstructive comments. This is an important site and it has a responsibility to set up some sort of charter or guidelines as to how it will deal with issues involving codecs, licensing and outside companies. You guys are the best there is, don’t sell yourself short by working on something for weeks and months that could have no future. I am asking the direction go towards something that has a higher percentage of success in the end. There clearly have been some bad decisions and they just keep coming. This is not a good sign of things to come.

Thank you

In a week I will be looking for the groups decision. It is very possible that divxnetworks is screwed forever because of failure to secure licensing before sales and release.

[binky the stunt cat]

So, umm, just wondering, does any of this realy matter to we who use the software/codecs/etc.... if there are any licensing issues, let the Lawyers sort it out, thats what they are there for.
As for Codec comparisons, i have got a primo copy of Con Air that i did a few years agin in 3.11 thats still one of my top encodes.
With the GAIN software in the Pro version, yeah its annoying, and easily bypassable, but if i had a) the spare cash and b) a credit card, i would quite happily go and fork out for the Non GAIN Pro codec.

Why?

Because these guys have been doing a great job, and deserve to be compensated for their time. I eagerly await every new version of their codec, and cant wait for #6 if/when it is released.

[theReal]

As a user not involved in any developing, I really don't care about the legal status of the company or group or single person or whoever made the codec I'm using for encoding some dvds for my personal use (and mostly only for the fun of it, anyways...)

However, most of us are using Windows, so any further rants about closed source/unethical methods/blabla is totally unnecessary because from that point of view, we are using the evil #1 as our operating system...

[Doom9]

legman

your first post contains a quote from my news so I guess I'm the right guy to talk to you.

Now before we start one thing.. this isn't the first time that you stepped over a boundary and that people have asked me to ban you. I have always defended you so far and I'm not going to ban you this time either even though your post is completely out of line and insulting to my person in the highest possible degree. You are questioning my credibility I would hope the powers that be "here" would be smart enough to realize supporting this company, with even one kind word, after releasing this, leads to creditability of "0" and my integrity. By doing so, on these grounds (or should I say groundless?) in public you've just lost a lot of the esteem I had for your person. In the future I may be a lot more reluctant to defend your right to do pretty much whatever you please to do...

They request threads opened and closed, to reply without fear of response. as it has been told by other moderators this did trigger more than a reaction. By now the rules for moderators are much longer and detailed than the rules for regular members. It is the duty of every moderator to document his moderating action. This was a direct and immediate reponse to the issue you mentioned. I'll talk to the responable guy so that you'll get a personal apology from him, too if that's what you need to drop this old matter.
They bundle their product with something a vicious as a virus. as an engineer active in computing and related stuff I would have to disagree... spyware does not break the functionality of your system and spreads uncontrollably throughout your pc and others. However, this matter has really been discussed over and over and it is a standing order not to bring it up anymore. It was a bad call from DXn to ever include Gator and I'll be the first one to sign that.
They mislead the pubilc in to thinking that they are legeally licensed and have a guaranteed future. As for the future part I cannot comment.. as for the license.. all I know is that on page http://www.mpegla.com/l_licensors.html DivXNetworks is listed as licensee number 99. If that is enough I cannot say.
They took the advancements of the open source and now are trying to say they have a right to close them. strong allegations without any proof. You know how our legal system works.. innocent till proven guilty.
They paided off many people for their involvment with the open source. This has been addmitted. People have been paid and now look the other way. I wonder what they signed. I bet an NDA was in there. same as above.
They charge big bucks for a license that is not supported by mpegla. I guess we shoud leave that up to the lawyers of the MPEG LA and DivXNetworks.
They don't disclose this VERY important fact to other companies wanting to use their codec, leaving them exposed to future law suits. same comment as above.
They are closed source. Yes. So? It is their god given right to release their software under any license they please. I'm sure everybody agrees that we'd rather have DivX4/5 open source but that's beside the point.
The managment here supports them. could you elaborate? I'm running a news site. I report about news of dvd ripping tools. DivXNetworks releases a rather important codec. As a reporter it is my duty to report about it. Do you want to imply that I'm falsifying test results to make people use DivX5? then say so. I've given you enough information that you can easily duplicate my tests and verify that my test is unbiased.

Now two more things
1) licensing. This site does not deal with corporate licensing. It's about making private backups for private purposes. If you intend to distribute a movie the legal issues are a lot more complicated than in the private sector and it has never been the intention of myself to cover these issues. Therefore.. releasing movies does not concern us.. why should we be bothered with it? But in case you insist here are my thoughts: Needless to mention the legal situation of DivX3.11.. we're all aware of how things are there. XviD: Has no license either. In fact you're not even supposed to distribute binaries.. doing that is at least problematic in a legal sense. The mere facts that no legal actions are taken doesn't mean it's legally okay. DivX4/5: DivXNetworks may not have signed the new MPEG-4 licensing agreement (did any company sign that? the licensing isn't even final according the MPEGLA proponents) but I doubt that at this point you can license mpeg4 technology that is licensed under the new MPEGLA agreement. So, with the licensing terms not being final and pretty much the whole industry really unhappy about the current terms I doubt that we'll see any legal action. Once the licensing issues have been sorted I'm sure that the companies who licensed DivX will have a properly licensed technology to work with. But at this point I think it's pretty much impossible to license anythign related to MPEG-4 video properly.
2) open source and evil corporations. I know for a fact that you have used Microsoft Windows in the past. Whether you still do I cannot say. But, if I were to argue the same way you do would imply that you do agree with Microsoft's way of doing business. But do I accuse you, or any other person who's ever used, paid money for, helped other people install or use such a product of supporting the way Microsoft is doing business? No I don't and I never would. It would be preposterous to presume so. Now I've heard some pretty nasty stuff about DXn myself but ask yourself this.. is there any successful company that has a completely stainless vest?I do have my doubts. They've made some bad calls and their public image has suffered. But that should not blind us from the basic truth that their product is a good product. And by putting political agendas (they're evil, they're not open source) before objective judgement of their product we are in no way better than they are. I won't afford the luxury of putting political agendas like supporting fair use or encourage people to use more free software above objectiveness and therefore I won't tell people not to use products by DivXNetworks just because I disagree with certain things they've done. If I would do that I would have to remove a lot more software from my site (including DivX3.11 as this is a Microsoft product)... actually.. I would have to remove everything and start a Linux only site...

one last thing.. this post was made using the open source browser mozilla running on WindowsXP.

[Joebuck JR]

I do not feel like getting in a flame war.
Wait the week. Reread what I posted a few times. Think about it. Do your due diligence
I have responded to your post and removed it. All I can say is that you did not address a single point I made in all that text. Wait the week and do your homework. Maybe you will learn something. There are many people depending on you. Don't let them down.

[TheWEF]

Originally posted by Joebuck JR
All I can say is that you did not address a single point I made in all that text.
hmmm...this is not true for sure.
legman, you truly disappoint me. although we think you are completely wrong we are trying to discuss. i'm sure doom9 put quite some work in his answer. you just ignore everything he said.
i wonder why we should bother?
your reaction just makes me wanna say: "c'mon - leave us alone!".

in case you decide to give a real answer (in a week???) - no flames please...

wef.

[binky the stunt cat]

well, howabout we just do the whole "Everyone is entitled to their own (if misguided) opinon" and leave it at that.

But one thing i would like to know Joe, is that if your using these forums, are against the DivX codecs, then one could logicly (altho probably wrong) that you have similar opinions about other codecs such as WMV. Since this pretty much covers all of what goes on in these forums, that leads to the question: Why they hell are you here in the first place?

I personaly wouldnt go find some Anti-GE community and start ranting how wrong, misguided and stupid they are, simply because i'm pro-GE (i''m studying BioChemistry you see).

Oh, and one other thing..... GAIN is IE dependant i've found....(go Mozilla :D)

[diji1]

@legman - i would jus like to know why you're motivations are so strong.

Let's say that all of your statements regarding support *are* true ( disregarding the thread closing issue, which seems to be a mistake ) ... why do you care so much anyhow ? Do you see consequences for the whole dvd-conversion scene in general ? Or is it something else ?

I just ask cos during my brief time reading this forum i built up a fair level of respect for ur postings ... but now i honestly think ur misreading the situation.

[Joebuck JR]

TheWEF,
I replied to every comment. It is all smoke, but I removed it. Just chill out a bit please. You taught me that, now it is your turn. I have my reasons. Do YOUR homework as I asked, then reread his reply and you will see that more then ½ of his comments are groundless. He builds his post on the assumption that each previous comment is correct. I have found several mistakes and once you do, it does not make a good point. He also address issues of problems in the past and I did say, It is not about me, but him and others here, keep trying to drive the conversation there. I am not looking for an apology or any of this old stuff to rehashed 1000 more times. The post is about this site, the leader, the mods, the CLICK and what I see as a bad situation for several reasons. Lets try to stay focused here. I cannot run off and address every single side step by other posters. I also commented that I did not intended to insult anyone and apologized myself, but doom9 did not READ my post or he would not have been so offended. I have read all the comments here. We are all experienced forum posters and I see the effort to cloud the issue that is so easy to do on these forums. This is integrity. The experienced mods here need to stay focused and not mislead the readers down other roads.

diji1,
There are several issues. I believe in what is right and I see something bad going on here. I particularly do not like it when people stand up for a cause, get a following and then fail to lead.

This is an integrity flaw that leaves many people exposed to possible long-term harm.
Now remember doom9, I have defended your integrity on a number of occasions. If I challenge it now, I have a damn good reason. No one is perfect; we all have room for improvement. Your staff should be helping you here.

Either way, I think it is you guys here that are over reacting. I am entitled to my opinion without being jumped on by every one of you one after another in an attempt to wear me down and make me say something stupid. I am a very busy person. Consult as a group and we will discuss it later.

Make no mistake about it; you will need to do your part, be unbiased and be fair and to the point.

I will not reply until next week, after I see the group post for you guys. Please stay on topic, don’t gang up on me (converse together) reply once and remember that I have been around and reading this forum for a while. What I see and have seen I only mention now because I can’t take it any more. This is a continuing long-term problem that needs to be addressed in a calm and intelligent fashion. No forum games and tricks anymore please. You all know better.

[Hanty]

Just chill out a bit please.

That goes both ways.



Do YOUR homework as I asked, then reread his reply and you will see that more then ½ of his comments are groundless. He builds his post on the assumption that each previous comment is correct.

No, he is collectively saying that your accusations are false and that he wants to see proof. With your above reply you are getting into a circle argument. It's quite the opposite, your turn to prove that those accussations aren't in fact false and that you have solid evidence to that it is true and not just your gestations conclusions.



I have found several mistakes and once you do, it does not make a good point.

Translation : He's wrong, but I can't tell you how he's wrong.

Oh please...



He also address issues of problems in the past and I did say, It is not about me, but him and others here, keep trying to drive the conversation there.

You keep coming back to the "opened and closed" threads yourself, to me that sounds like you are just as eager as gearing the conversation there.



I also commented that I did not intended to insult anyone and apologized myself, but doom9 did not READ my post or he would not have been so offended. I have read all the comments here. We are all experienced forum posters and I see the effort to cloud the issue that is so easy to do on these forums. This is integrity. The experienced mods here need to stay focused and not mislead the readers down other roads.

You did not intend to insult anyone, and in the next sentence you accuse the entire mod team of being manipulators. Ouch!



I particularly do not like it when people stand up for a cause, get a following and then fail to lead.

This is in your head, Doom9 has never set out to be a leader of the scene. He is running a site which people come to by their free will. He is providing a "dump" and forum for discussion on this, doing us all a service. His own role is that (by his own words) of a reporter.



Either way, I think it is you guys here that are over reacting. I am entitled to my opinion without being jumped on by every one of you one after another in an attempt to wear me down and make me say something stupid.

No you manage to do that pretty fine on your own. Your entire last post is nothing but vague rethoric, never clearly stating what it is you are talking about, hinting at conspiracies, integrity flaws and what not but never stating exactly what it is what you're talking about anymore. The impression I get is that you've run out of arguments but your pride keep you from admiting defeat.



What I see and have seen I only mention now because I can’t take it any more. This is a continuing long-term problem that needs to be addressed in a calm and intelligent fashion. No forum games and tricks anymore please.

Exactly what is it that you see, what you keep refering to, but fail to say out loud? Is Doom9 being paid off by DXN? Is he and the mods manipulating the board in order to support their own agenda? Is your say being supressed because it is in conflict with these interest Doom9 has?

...and get real, people aren't going to sit down as a group and reply to you. You've been very offensive to some individuals on this board and they will reply as individuals. I suspect that is just your way of covering your back. "You haven't replied in a group as I asked, thus I have proved you wrong"

[diji1]

There are several issues. ... I see something bad going on here. I particularly do not like it when people stand up for a cause, get a following and then fail to lead.

*What* issues ? *What* is "bad" ? ... if there are any "leaders" here they are surely unselfish volunteers as such, so can you really complain about what they decide to do ? Sorry man, but all i see is very vague assertions ... unless you know something that you haven't posted.

[Joebuck JR]

Originally posted by Hanty
Just chill out a bit please.

That goes both ways.



Do YOUR homework as I asked, then reread his reply and you will see that more then ½ of his comments are groundless. He builds his post on the assumption that each previous comment is correct.

No, he is collectively saying that your accusations are false and that he wants to see proof. With your above reply you are getting into a circle argument. It's quite the opposite, your turn to prove that those accussations aren't in fact false and that you have solid evidence to that it is true and not just your gestations conclusions.


Get off your rear and read. There is an email link I posted. Now send an email and you will see I speak the truth. The rest of your post assumues I have provied no proof, but in fact, I have.

Ignore it all you want, but the fact remains that I will provied more later, but I do warn, your lack research and homework are going to make you look worse later. As I said, ther eare several issues. One of which is exactly how you are working together as a group to stifle my points. It makes me want to barf. I ahve seen many of you guys do this again and again. My facts are valid and so are my points. Don't try to pretend you are above it. All you reflect at this point is pure arrogrance.

[Joebuck JR]

diji1,
I suggest you reread the entire post. If you don't understand at that point, I can't help you now, so don't ask.

[Joebuck JR]

Hanty
I have reread your post and find it very nasty. Fine, but others do see it.

I will quote a recent movie,
With great power comes great responsibility.

All the mods here, there is not one exception, have failed. I will reply no more due to the lack of human respect here.

You all have a serious problem of looking the other way in support of the other mods here. There is a tone of pure arrogance and it makes me sick.

Doom9 has, and I could quote it, but you press my patience so I won't, many issues involving stopping laws from passing and other basic do good work.

Yet, he, with all of your support, continues to take the finest group of encoding programmers down a road that has exposed several companies to extreme liability. Then you guys claim you’re a news site, in the purest hypocrisy I have ever seen, to defend your not doing the right thing at this point in time. You guys did not do your homework and I am not going to explain the law here, as it would be a waste of my breath.

Doom9 violated my confidence in the past. I know first hand that his integrity is not above reproach.

Now you guys go run along in your little click of arrogant self-serving individuals that refuse to ever let anyone every make a point against the group in this forum.

We all see how you all are. That is the other problem. You guys come off as real assholes sometimes. Get a clue.

Support a troublesome product, be arrogant, shoot down those that try to make a positive statement, work together in a click to tell each other they are right, no matter what, and continue to take the most talented bunch of people on a one way mission to screw the world out of what could have been.

I am done here. No one will respect my request to not post and talk it over. All of you, your integrity has been questioned and proven broken. Had one of you called or emailed mpegla and then reread everything from there, you would have known better. You guys are not worth it. I can't help you if you don't want to help yourself.

Doom9, you should be ashamed of yourself and your mods. Lead or get the hell out of the way

[Ookami]

Hello Legman,

there is no need to "wait/think for a week"... Here are my thoughts as this whole "group" thing is just silly. We are a bunch of people with the same hobby, no more - no less. All this glorious stories about groups, clicks, whatever holds no water.

To adress some of the stuff you wrote:

First DivX:

I liked it when Bugs Bunny wrote that nice reply about companies, normal people and profit. Like I wrote when Open DivX was abandoned, companies are founded to make money. Period. So, everyone who thinks that's wrong should give his paycheck (if he has any) to his boss and say: "I am against profit!".

Of course there is the way how to make profit, but that's another issue. You seem to constantly put Divx networks in a evil like position. Do you have any profit when Divx networks gets such an image? Somehow I get that feeling... IMO, you sound like when the Sun CEO talks about the eeeeeeevil Bill Gates. LOL Just joking. This thread is too uptight...

>They request threads opened and closed, to reply without fear of response.

I don't know why this happened! How do you know? I assume BetaBoy wanted to defend his firm against some accusations, but the thread was already locked. So, the right thing would be:

a) Open another thread an post it there
b) Ask Doom9 (NO one else!) to reopend the thread

We all know how it ended. BTW, I remember being accused in that same thread, do you remember that? I think I will make a search and post the link (if I find it).

>They bundle their product with something a vicious as a virus.

Well, why didn't you make such a thread when the new Radlight player appeared? Do you know how many programs install spyware? Of course you do, it was always obvious that you are a experienced user.

>They mislead the pubilc in to thinking that they are legeally licensed and have a guaranteed future.

Don't know anything about that, and frankly I don't care. In a few months (my guess) I can use Xvid that will be enough for me. DivX is a fine codec and I will use it because it is still more legal than Gej's old "Divx ;-)" :D .

>They took the advancements of the open source and now are trying to say they have a right to close them.

I didn't liked that either. But, people who read the license said that it was always obvious to those who read the license (wich 99% of the people don't do).

>They paided off many people for their involvment with the open source. This has been addmitted. People have been paid and now look the other way. I wonder what they signed. I bet an NDA was in there.

Why not? NDA is nothing special... IMO, a way bigger problem is patenting software routines, NDA, why not... And if you let that someone pays you off then you are too blame to not only the eevil company.

>They charge big bucks for a license that is not supported by mpegla.

Again, why not? They want to make money. This is not carity.

>They don't disclose this VERY important fact to other companies wanting to use their codec, leaving them exposed to future law suits.

Er, who will bring myself to a court because I encoded my capture with codec x? Like on smart member wrote, lawyers are here for a reason.

>They are closed source.

ROTFL Oh no! They are close source! Bwahahaha... This is just great, I didn't saw this before. I mean, its always better to have closed source so the customer doesn't see your spagheti code ;) .

-CLICK

As the first mod on Doom9's forum I can asure you there is no click, here! We have quite a few moderators with the same (or better similar) hobby. We are very different people from different countries, different motivations, different lives (if any :devil: ) etc. If there is a click, I'm not a part of it (don't know it).

So, if there is no click there can be no "group" (as you describe it) who pushes/supports DivX. Hell, many of the mods are not into video at all! Many of the mods don't use DivX at all. Most of the mods are not replying here, wonder why?! If this wasn't "my" forum I would not spend dozens of minutes writing this. You see, you get much respect from me (and the others), wouldn't it be nice if you return it to us?

-SUPPORT DivX etc.

Do you think that ANY of us mods has the right to claim/ask, whatever, from Doom9, anything? It's his site! His time! His call!

I can tell you that in the months (er, or better years) that I know his digital ego (hehehe, I love this one) he has been more mature, sincere and nice than most of the people I do not know (that was a good one too). I would stop supporting him for quite lesser things that you've accused him.

But you see that I'm still here (instead of learning for my exams ( :eek: ), and I still try to support him, like I support Q-bert, Ted, Hawk, Fish, fu2k, Danni and all the other people wich have integrity (there are way too many to write!).

As a devoted idealist (a dying kind) I will not spend one Joule of energy on people that I don't respect, be it the virtual world or the real one. And I can only say again, Doom9 has earned it.

Second, as someone who runs a news site + the best forum it would be stupid and strange not to support such a well known and accepted codec like DivX.

I'm waiting for a clear reply by you (no rethorics, no moralizing), without agenda (wich seems to affect everyone except of you), hidden accusations (I think I saw a few) but with facts (no ask x he'll tell you! I want hard facts (as hard as it can get here ;) ).

BTW, you are not the first with the "eevil Divx networks" theory. If I remember well the famous Nicky Page was the first on Doom9's old ezboard forum. He did, only write about his thoughts of Divx networks and did not accuse, imply anything to the click, er, I mean such a thing doesn't exist :D .

Thank you for your time.

Cheers,

Mijo.

[mpucoder]

Lest I be categorized as one of the mods who never reply - I learned a long time ago to avoid senseless arguements, and those whose only purpose seems to be to create discord.

[Ookami]

Sadly you have not posted this 20 minutes earlier, you would save me some time and money (I wouldn't reply in this thread anymore).

You actions speak for themselves, ours for ourselves.

I was never afraid when someone pointed my to my actions, because I always tried to do my best and when I said/wrote something you could bet on it.

I wonder if you can say the same thing...

All the best and please, don't post here anymore if you make such insulting comments like below. Thank you.

I will not close this thread and I will mail the adress you gave me, because once and for all I want this things of my table (altough I'm really not interested, but I don't want that in x weeks a new member y aka Joebuck JR posts the same old story here).

Cheers,

Mijo.

Originally posted by Joebuck JR
All the mods here, there is not one exception, have failed. I will reply no more due to the lack of human respect here. (...)

We all see how you all are. That is the other problem. You guys come off as real assholes sometimes. Get a clue. (...)

I am done here. (...) You guys are not worth it. I can't help you if you don't want to help yourself.

Doom9, you should be ashamed of yourself and your mods. Lead or get the hell out of the way

[theReal]

Wait wait! I always thought I was on a video encoding forum here. Now it is revealed that it is some kind of evil sect that tries to manipulate my mind and whose leaders control my brain, or something.
Maybe Divx5 encodes reverse satanic messages into my movies that will flash up again and again to make me a brainless killer for the evil programmers!

Man, I can't believe it...

[Hanty]

Someone has got to tell me what freemason/illuminati type click/group I'm a part of a sudden that's trying to supress whatever Joebuck is trying to say. (Which he refrains from explaining)

[MaTTeR]

It is a little offensive to lump me as a moderator into the DXn support group. I know for a fact that we have sereral mods here who no longer use or support Divx and instead use XviD for encoding needs. I won't name these people(mods) as they can respond for themselves. If Doom9 had some sort of close ties with DXn then he would have booted me and a few other mods out of this forum long ago as we have made it no secret which codec we prefer and who we prefer not to support for many many reasons (a few you have stated).

Also of interest is Doom9's latest codec comparison. Maybe I read between the lines or something but nowhere did I see him write that Divx 5.xx was the clear codec of choice. So certainly that gives no credibilty to this so called "conspiracy theory".

Though I do share some of your thoughts Joebuck JR (not the group or site insults), coming here and pointing fingers at us or Doom9 isn't the most tactful way to handle such a subject. Removing the Divx section out of the forum and not reporting DXn related news on this site isn't even logical. If you want to see how biased a few of us mods/supermods are then do a search at divx.com:D Some of us share our feelings(flames :-o) quite loudly in that forum;)

[Doom9]

legman.. you've been playing us all masterfully, turning and twisting and trying to make us look like the bad guys if we come after you. But you forgot about a little handy tool called the forum rules. In this thread you've repeatedly insulted specific members of the moderation team along with myself and some of the regular members. The rules apply to each and everyone, even you!

when you get unsuspended please don't come back here ever. You are not welcome here anymore.