Quality Improvement

[TheeeGod 3]

i really didnt know where to put this question so i decided to drop it here. for some reason cce has been locking up on my computer and anything and everything i do doesn't help at all. the funny thing is that it only locks up when i'm using av2svcd. so i decided to try an alternative: convert the divx to mpeg2 using tmpeg and then feed it to d2s using an ifo from a dvd. i want to know whether using two different encoders twice will enhance to quality of the picture. and when using tmpeg can i just do the fastest conversion since i'm going to use cce anyway or should i stick to quality over speed in tmpeg also? and has anyone else ever had to do this. i was wondering whether cce will perform better quality picture since tmpeg has already done its part...thnx for your help


ps - if i put this in the wrong section, please feel free to move it.

[markrb]

If the file is Divx3 try converting it to Divx4 before loading it into DVD2SVCD or if the convert Divx3 to Divx4 checkbox is not greyed out check that.

Also converting it first to Mpeg in TMPG and then again in CCE will give aweful results. Just use TMPG as the encoder for the final image in DVD2SVCD. Remember the result cannot be better, only worse, then the source.

Mark

[TheeeGod 3]

i think the file is mpeg4, but i will try to suggestion that you mentioned.

how is that using two encoders will give bad results? i mean shouldn't the bits of video be allocated even better since they are being moved twice?

[markrb]

You are converting the picture twice, not doing what VBR does which is using the previous pass to figure out the video better.

The more times you convert the video the more mistakes are made, the more noise is introduced, the more artifacts are generated.

Use TMPG as your encoder if you have an issue with CCE.

How do you figure that a video can be better then the source?

If you convert it using TMPG you will never get anything better then this. You risk it being much worse.

You are not simply copying the video. You are encoding it, big difference.

Most likely you are better doing VCD from Divx anyway since the source is not extremely high qaulity. The smaller video size of VCD will better hide video problems.

This is an analog analogy, but it works to demonstrate my point.
When you make a copy of a VHS tape the copy can never be better then the original and usually much worse. In your case by first encoding in TMPG and then in CCE you are making a copy of a copy. By far much worse then the original.

Mark

[TheeeGod 3]

i hear u. thanks for the advice. i will try cce once more and if it freezes, then a vcd it is. thanks for your time

*edit* - is there a command similar to temporal smoother on tmpeg?

[markrb]

If you use DVD2SVCD to do the encode the serving is much the same. TS is an AVIsynth function not CCE or TMPG. So as long as you are serving with Avisynth you should be able to use all the functions including TS.

Mark

[TheeeGod 3]

after tons of trying, it finally worked!! i finally converted an avi using cce. i used 6 passes, tempsmoother 2,1 and vfapi safe mode.i dont have the log right now but if anybody wants to see i wouldn't mind posting it. i must admit it was a bit tedious. ok i wont lie: it took forever!!!;) i think creation of the vaf file took like 4 hours alone and then the rest of the video encoding process took 17+ hours, with cce having a speed of .555. i haven't actaully burnt the images or looked at any files. all i know so far from home is that cce didnt freeze and it said "svcd creation finished" on the screen.
im so excited! :D cant wait to go home :)

[markrb]

Just so you know. According to the Authors of CCE the program reaches it's max capability somewhere between 3 and 4 passes.
So if you go by them, and I would, you should never use a setting higher then 4 unless you don't mind the extra time.

Mark

[TheeeGod 3]

mark i have heard that before but since i'm using an avi i wanted to get the absolute best quality that i could. plus this post helped: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18665&perpage=20&highlight=TMPG%20quality&pagenumber=2

on the second page, ddogg's first reply with the long excerpt...the third paragraph helped me decide whether to use 6 passes or not. plus i prefer quality over time.

i have one small question: do u think increasing the bitrate from 2530s,or something close to it, to 2600, and decreasing the audio, will produce a noticeable better picture?

[mordant]

Just an observation on the 3-4/5 pass idea. I hear you with listening to the authors of the program...but I've also got to use visual experience on encodes I've done myself.

Working from a DVD source I would agree...difference between 4 and 5 passes is basically just time. When working from a Divx source though, I've found that 5 passes is a great deal better than 4. I had encoded an SVCD from a particular Divx a few times with different settings and wasn't getting a result I felt was worthwhile using 4 passes. I was pretty convinced that 5 would be no different from what I had read here. I decided to give it a shot anyway and was finally happy with the encode.

[markrb]

That small a bitrate jump really won't make that much difference and you risk it not playing on your DVD player correctly. Even if you don't have one now, it would sure suck not being able to play it on your TV in six months.

If the audio choice is between 224 and 192 then judge based on the source. If the choice is for a lower bitrate don't bother.

The big question is how good is that Divx file? I really doubt you will see any diffence at all even between 2000 and 2500. I bet the source bitrate is probably closer to VCD standard of 1150. Rememeber it can never be better then the source. DVD's have bitrates as high as 10Mbps or about 4.5 times higher then we set our SVCD's to. This is why bitrate makes a bigger deal here. The DVD is always better then the SVCD.

DDogg and his world dealt more with Cam capture stuff rather then downloaded Divx. He could capture at a very high rate, better then SVCD quality, and reduce the image to SVCD's with very good results.

Mark

[TheeeGod 3]

:( i came home expecting a complete svcd. however, the darn thing doesn't have full audio. the audio stops at 41:17. i dont know what happened wrong. i have posted the log. and please dont tell me i have to do video encoding again to get the audio back :( plz help :confused:


--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/5/2002 2:01:05 AM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/5/2002 2:01:07 AM
- Free on drive C: 10201.81 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/5/2002 2:01:30 AM
- Free on drive C: 10158.00 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting MP2 to WAV. Filename: C:\monsters\Extracted_audio_1.mpa
Executing MADPlay (mp2 to wav). Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\MADPlay\madplay.exe" --quiet --output=wave:"C:\monsters\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" "C:\monsters\Extracted_audio_1.mpa"
Conversion (mp2 to wav) of C:\monsters\Extracted_audio_1.mpa finished.


Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: C:\monsters\Extracted_audio_1.mpa
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\monsters\Encoded_audio_1.mp2.wav" -output "C:\monsters\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "C:\monsters\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -ota( -g max -r 23976 23976 ) -2lame( -e -b 224 -m s )
Audio conversion of C:\monsters\Extracted_audio_1.mpa finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/5/2002 2:08:19 AM
- Free on drive C: 9638.00 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\VCD Progs\title images\Monsters.JPG
Converting: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/5/2002 2:08:31 AM
- Free on drive C: 9634.41 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------
- Editing AVS script file

Executing VFAPI.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 156944368
VideoPAPO: 23361912
ScanOffsetBytes: 158971
SeqAligningBytes: 10103503
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1474516813.87
Seconds: 5530.36
CalcMPEGStream: 1474516813.87
Frames: 132476
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 132476
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 6
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 900
Max. bitrate: 2532
Avg. Bitrate: 2132
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\SIMPLE~1\SIMPLE~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
AVISource("C:\DOCUME~1\HPAUTH~1\MYDOCU~1\MULTIM~1\retail\MONSTE~1.AVI")
ConvertToYUY2()
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
SimpleResize(480,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/6/2002 12:25:35 AM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

Failed to set data for ''
Failed to set data for ''
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/6/2002 12:28:19 AM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/6/2002 12:28:23 AM
- Free on drive C: 8679.59 mb
- Crash Recovery
- Restarting from: Video encoding
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/6/2002 12:28:39 AM
- Free on drive C: 8679.53 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------
- Editing AVS script file

Executing VFAPI.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 156944368
VideoPAPO: 23361912
ScanOffsetBytes: 158971
SeqAligningBytes: 10103503
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1474516813.87
Seconds: 5530.36
CalcMPEGStream: 1474516813.87
Frames: 132476
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 132476
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 6
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 900
Max. bitrate: 2532
Avg. Bitrate: 2132
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\SIMPLE~1\SIMPLE~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
AVISource("C:\DOCUME~1\HPAUTH~1\MYDOCU~1\MULTIM~1\retail\MONSTE~1.AVI")
ConvertToYUY2()
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
SimpleResize(480,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
----AVS End----

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/8/2002 2:07:00 PM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/8/2002 2:07:26 PM
- Free on drive C: 9472.78 mb
- Crash Recovery
- Restarting from: Video encoding
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/8/2002 2:07:32 PM
- Free on drive C: 9472.72 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------
- Editing AVS script file

Executing VFAPI.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1665085576
AudioSectors: 156944368
VideoPAPO: 23361912
ScanOffsetBytes: 158971
SeqAligningBytes: 10103503
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1474516813.87
Seconds: 5530.36
CalcMPEGStream: 1474516813.87
Frames: 132476
CDSize: 800.00
Cut point 795.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 132476
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 6
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 900
Max. bitrate: 2532
Avg. Bitrate: 2132
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\SIMPLE~1\SIMPLE~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
AVISource("C:\DOCUME~1\HPAUTH~1\MYDOCU~1\MULTIM~1\retail\MONSTE~1.AVI")
ConvertToYUY2()
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)
TemporalSmoother(2,1)
SimpleResize(480,360)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 0.550
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 6:55:58 AM
- Free on drive C: 8157.81 mb
- Video Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing Pulldown. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\pulldown\pulldown.exe" "C:\monsters\Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv" "C:\monsters\Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv"
Video pulldown finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:02:50 AM
- Free on drive C: 6898.66 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\monsters\TitlePicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:02:58 AM
- Free on drive C: 6898.53 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\monsters\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:03:03 AM
- Free on drive C: 6898.44 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\monsters\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:17:28 AM
- Free on drive C: 5411.03 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: C:\monsters\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2475.120 seconds C:\monsters\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing: C:\monsters\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
0.000 seconds C:\monsters\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:19:23 AM
- Free on drive C: 5411.00 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 27

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="C:\monsters\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="C:\monsters\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "C:\monsters\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:24:07 AM
- Free on drive C: 4604.56 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 1

CD image #2: CD_Image_File_CD2.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="C:\monsters\CD_Image_File_CD2.cue" --bin-file="C:\monsters\CD_Image_File_CD2.bin" "C:\monsters\VCDXBuild_Script_2.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/9/2002 7:27:25 AM
- Free on drive C: 3902.16 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
- 5/10/2002 10:06:23 PM
- AVI to SVCD Conversion
- AVI2SVCD ver. 1.0.9 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.



ps - i also noticed that madplay log has nothing in it. mark, what do you think the problem is? i played the original avi by itself and it does have the full audio...

[markrb]

Check in the basics forum. This has happened before. If you don't find anything repost in the basics forum and be sure to include your BeSweet log.

Mark