Problem at the end of CDs

[mancer]

When I burn an image to CD, the movie gets stuck very often at the end of the movie; my DVD-Drive rotates (well, the SVCD in the DVD-drive of course ;-) as if there's a scratch on the disk.
I created the images with DVD2SVCD and set them to fit on a 80 min. CD-R. The CD-Rs are from Memorex or TraxData. I label them with a CD-marker. When I use the Daemon-Tools with the images it perfectly works. Is this a problem with my burner, might it be an error in the file structure (I noticed that the "Change_CD.mpg" is CBR, but the movie itself is VBR) or is it kinda "normal"? IMO it's got nothing to do with the created image, but maybe someone of you knows something about this.

[gerti67]

Hi mancer,

please give more infos on how you burned your SVCDs. As you already use the Daemon-Tools I guess it is the "foolproof way" ?

From my experience, problems at the end of a SVCD are caused by a too high burn speed. Do a search on that topic - it's already discussed in here in the past very often.

Greetings,
Gerti

[mancer]

It's not due to the burning speed, I burn the CDs at a max. speed of 4x, but I also tryed 2x.
But I didn't burn a direct copy with Nero from the Daemon-Tools, but the .cue file directly with CD-R Win 3.8. I'll try the direct copy now.
But aren't the cues made to be burned with a program (like CD-R Win) and not to produce errors?

Best regards

[gerti67]

Hi again,

yeah you're right IIRC it was CDRWIN that introduced the CUE sheet but I never was a friend of that program so I can't tell something about it's reliability when it comes to burn SVCDs - I think I read something about some glitches with specific burners in the past but don't know for sure now.

But you can also try to use VCDEasy - it's freeware and it can also burn SVCDs from the CUE sheets created by DVD2SVCD - I use it for all my SVCD burnings now and it's great if it supports your burner.

Greetings,
Gerti

[markrb]

I have noticed that this happens to me on both of my player (Pioneer, Apex) when I have done 1 of 2 things.

1. Overburned the CD-R disc greater then what the DVD player can read.

2. Did not include a change cd image. It will just play all wierd at the end of the disc, but does play it all.


Personally I love CDRWIN and used to only use it for burning my CUE files, but since trying VCDEasy I now use that almost exclusively.

Mark

[mancer]

Talking about reliability, which method do you think is better for burning the images:

- a direct copy using Daemon-Tools and Nero (f.e.)
or
- burning the .cue with VCDEasy (f.e.)?

@ markrb:

Thanks for your advice, I guess I'll leave that "Change_CD"-stuff (as cool as it is) out next time.

[markrb]

No actually I meant if I didn't have the change cd it would screw up.

Sorry for the confusion.

I hardly ever use daemon tools except to check the SVCD before I burn.

I have never had an issue with VCDEasy. As long as you tell it to use the right driver it works very well. For me I always have to force generic-mmc even though my aspi is valid.

Mark

[mancer]

Hmm, I just burned the last CD of "Idle hands" (which is always fun to watch IMO :-), with Nero and I get the same error: the movie stops during the ending credits when I watch it with my Creative Dxr³ mpeg-card. With PowerDVD it works fine. Same happens with the last CDs of "Teaching Mrs. Tingle", "Scream" and "Urban legend". Well, if it only happens during the credits, it wouldn't be that bad, but to be sure I had to watch the whole movie again :-(
I think I'll try VCDEasy, even though I don't think my burner will be supported (got a Philips 4201 they don't even mention on their pages...). I'll see...

So long

[sandchar99]

The subject of which program to use is often debated:

see this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11805)

I voted for VCDEasy (CDRDAO) but the Daemon/Nero combination has worked well for me also.

Recently I have had another problem, possibly similar to yours, where the data becomes mostly unreadable towards the end of the disc and causing both PC and standalone to freeze. I can actually see a definite delineation between the good and bad parts of the disc in the right light and angle.

see this thread (http://support.cendyne.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1112)

My solution has been to shut down the computer after burning each disc and restarting it again. Yes, this is a bummer, adding 5 more minutes to each cd burned, but it seems to be helping.

[Nick]

I have come across a number of reasons for such errors. The main one is choice and storage of media. However, I always rave about Imation discs having written around 100 SVCD discs on them without a single coaster. It seems Sandchar has been less lucky.

I mention storage because the discs I were using before then were spindle packed and were on the floor in my spare bedroom. I had loads of problems with them. It turned out that whilst I was at work, the sun shines in through my spare bedroom window and my spindle of 100 discs were getting about 2 hours' direct sunlight a day!! All ruined :angry: !! The problem manifested much as you indicated.

My mate had similar problems with his burnproof writer. If he tried to write fast, it left a visible demarcation somewhere on the disc where it all went pearshaped. The same thing - restarting the PC before burning - worked for him. I had read somewhere that burnproof writers, when they stop and restart due to turbulence in the data flow, they leave a little gap. We therefore thought that it was by freeing system resources we were preventing the need for buffer underrun protection to kick in and that was why it worked better. However, I understand Sandchar is using a 6-speed Ricoh - hardly likely to be burnproof!! However, the restart idea was the only solution we found.

If the image plays OK in Daemon tools it is almost certainly a burning/media issue. If changing media doesn't work for you, try and borrow a writer from a friend as a last resort.

Hopefully some food for thought...

[sandchar99]

I use, almost exclusively, Imation or Memorex silver backs (both actually manufactured by the same company) and stored in a dark closet. My Ricoh CD-RW drive has served me well and, a long time ago, I could go 100s of SVCD discs without making a single coaster.

My feeling is that 4x (or 6x) burning speed was always well tolerated by my system (Dell 8100 Computer: Using 6x4x32 IDE Internal CD-RW (Ricoh), Win2000 Pro, 512 MB RDRAM, 40 GB HD times 2, P4 1.4 GHz) even though I didn't have buffer under-run technology.

My guess is that my Ricoh (Cendyne) drive has lived out it's normal lifespan and it is time to replace it. I already have a CenDyne Lightning II 32X/12X/40X unopened and ready to install.

[markrb]

Now that you mention shutting down the PC between burns it brings back some old(for computers anyway) memories.
A few moths back I was having issues with coasters and CDRWIN. The first disc would burn fine, but the second would always be a coaster. I went through all my normal trouble shooting procedures and I ended up finding out that my level of overclocking my bus was the issue. Dropping the bus by a small amount solved the burning problem for me and to this day I use the same tester that I used to find my issue then to check my system stability.

I used a program called GoldMemory that makes it's own boot disc and tests the memory doing several intensive tests. AT this particular time it would get about 80% of the way into testing and find only 1 or 2 errors. Dropping the bus speed 1 or 2 Mhz made that error go away.

If you are overclocking the bus at all drop it a couple of points and see if the burns work correctly.

Mark

[sandchar99]

Thanks markrb for the reply.

I am not overclocking by system bus but I will try testing the memory.

:)

[makaone]

Have found in the past that if while i was burning at 4x or 2x and was off doing other things that used up mem , for some reason i had the same problems that you are having.
I upgraded 512 meg and changed to using clone cd with dameon tools and have'nt looked back since.
I find if you are burning it is better to leave alone and wait till it has finished before doing other things.
Hope it helps.

[mancer]

Alright, I'll try restarting before burning and using CloneCD, hope it helpes, too :)

[Amit]

I had the same problem couple of days back. I was using Durabrand Digital Audio CD-R that were available at Walmart in Jewel Case (20 packs). I bought 3 packs in one go so when I burned all 60 of them I went back to Walmart to buy more. My BAD LUCK!!! they didn't have any more Jewel case Digital Audio CD-R, What they have is in Spindle of 50 or 100. Thinking that this media is working good, I bought the spindle of 100. When I came back and tried to burn, all my movies have problem some at the start of the CD and some at the end. So, I though maybe there's some problem and I went back to Walmart and returned the whole spindle. Then I tried Memorax CD-R 50 Spindle. Same problem again. So, I returned and kept of trying with lots of brands. I was so frustrated that at one point I though I should get me Writer Changed now. Then one day, I found that my OLD good CDs that work like a charm are actually DIGITAL AUDIO CDs and NOT SIMPLE CD-Rs. Now, whatever brand I try, I check whether its ment for DIGITAL AUDIO or not.

After doing some research on the internet, I found that most of the manufacturers use different material for their CDs. The one saying Digital Audi CDs are specifically created with a material that can easily be read my Standalone hardware and this material is differnt than the one used on DATA CD-R, which are ment for being used on Computer Drives.

I personally have a APEX 1500 DVD player. Its a D Series player without the Region & Macrovision Hack. So, I can say for sure that anyone having the same player can safely go to Walmart and buy DURABRAND DIGITAL AUDIO CD-R and they will work perfactly. These days they come only in Spindle of 50. Make sure you don't buy the DURABRAND CD-R which are actually DATA CDs and give LOT of problem on APEX 1500.

-Amit

[mancer]

@ amit: Did you have these problems on your stand-alone or on your PC? I don't have a stand-alone yet (as I wrote, I'm using the Dxr³ kit for 3 years now) and got problems on my DVD drive.
I thought of an error in the media, too (I used Memorex (maybe they're different in Germany) 50 spindle), so I bought some TraxData and had the same problem. But I'll sure check out the digital audio ones.
Thanx four the help.

[Amit]

@mancer
I do have a Creative Dxr3 MPEG decoeder with Creative 12X DVD ROM Drive on my PC. It happens whatever you use. In gact with software players like WinDVD 3.1 Multi Channel and PowerDVD 4.0 XP Multi Channel.

It did took me a while to nail down this problem but now that I know that Digital Audio CDs is the way to go. I check atleast twice whenevr I go out in the market to buy CDs. Since Digital Audio CDs are good for DATA so they solve dual purpose. The only disadvantage is that Digital Audio CDs are little costly than Data CDs . But what the hack if we can not play a data cd.

I would love to hear your result. Whether switching to Digital Audio Cds solved your problem too. In that case we a COMMON SOLUTION here.

Do post your result.

-Amit

[mancer]

Okay, I'll go out tomorrow and buy some (still a bit drunk from yesterdays party ;-), it would be great to have a common solution. I guess Digital Audio CDs don't exist spindled, do they?

[smiller667]

Originally posted by mancer
I guess Digital Audio CDs don't exist spindled, do they? They do ... haven't seen them in a shop, though. As you live in Germany, the Feurio shop might be an option for you: http://www.feurio.de/feurio-cgi/shop.pl? ...

[sandchar99]

Referencing my problems above:

1) Replaced 6x4x32 CDRW drive with 32x12x40 CDRW drive with Burnproof technology.

2) Made it master and the DVD-Rom drive slave.

Now, no more coasters.

Problem is, using the Daemon "Foolproof" method along with Nero, the SLOWEST I can burn is 8x speed. Nero does not even give me the option to do it any slower--only to do it faster(12x, 16x, 24x....).

I used to burn at 4x or 6x to avoid errors.

All burns at 8x speed are without errors so far.

[chainsaw135]

Yeah you can't beat that burn proof technology... and making the burner master is something i always do myself:)

[mancer]

I tried burning the movie on a "Emtec Maxima Digital Audio 80 min." - same result: a few seconds (always different, sometimes 60, sometimes 10) before the end of the CD the movie quits (or skips to the "change CD"-track on CD1). But this happens only with the Creative Play Center, not with PowerDVD XP. Maybe it's better to encode to 740 min. and burn it on a 80 min. CD-R. I'll try it on the next encoded movie.

[sandchar99]

Originally posted by Bach


have a look at the manual of your burner. Some new writers (like mine) cannot burn CD-R at a speed slower than 8x, and a CD-R at a speed slower than 4x.

My new drive is "Cendyne lightning II 32x12x40" (repackaged Lite-On, Verbatim firmware, $69 after rebates at OfficeMax).

Called Tech Support at Cendyne. They agree, can't burn any slower than 8x. If it works (and it seems to), it's cutting my burning speeds in half. :)

I might try some of the faster speeds: 12x or 16x.

Anyone having good results at these higher speeds?

[markrb]

mancer try dropping your cd size just a few mb's each time. It really sounds like my problem when I overburn discs. Through my questions here I have found that every DVD player has a different limit before it scews up. Figure out where the disc starts screwing up and make an educated guess as to how much you need to cut off. If it's only a few seconds try knocking off 2 mb's or so to start. If you sill have the mp2 and mpv files you can edit the d2s file, find where it says BBmpeg cutpoint, reduce this by 2mb and then use Recover from muxing and cutting again. This will save you from having to re-encode the video.

Mark

[mancer]

It might be a stupid question, but, if I let's say pull the cutting point to the beginning of the movie, won't the second file be bigger? I ask because I have this problem (movie breaking up) on both of the discs. I just encoded a movie with a size of a 74 min. CD-R, I'll tell you the results later, need some sleep now and haven't burned it yet.

So long

[markrb]

If you don't re-encode the video then the last file will be bigger, but my idea was mostly to test to see what works for you. If dropping the cd size by 2 mb's doesn't work drop it by 2 more and so on until it works for you. If it goes too low then the problem isn't what I thought.

If you drop the CD size from 800 to 798 on the bitrate tab then the bitrate is adjusted to fit the number of cd's selected. Of course you will need to start over to get this.

Mark

[mancer]

Whoa, bad news :(
I burned a 764 MB sized image ('740' setting in DVD2SVCD) on a 700 MB CD-R - same result: Creative Play Center and PowerDVD XP lock up 1 minute before the end of the CD. You know what? I start thinking my burner is screwed up, I'll try it with my friend's one in a couple of days. This sucks :angry:

[chainsaw135]

Yeah sounds like it could be the cdr failing... i would do the next test at someones house for sure see how it goes. I can tell u that i've not had that problem on any of the builds but specially the latest one i've done 5 movies no problem burning or playing ect.

[mancer]

I think I finally figured out that there's a problem with the Creative Play Center 2.0 (if that's the version for XP) playing the SVCD FORMAT. If I play the images with the CPC, it skips to the next track (i.e. the ChangeCD-Track) just a few seconds before the end, PowerDVD XP plays them correctly. Could anyone with a Creative DXR Card post his experiences here, please?

[mancer]

Yes, I was (almost) right. The problem isn't the Play Center, but the DXR³-card. Look what I found in the Creative forum, posted by a creative employee:

The DXR3 only supports standard Mpeg 1 and 2 Video. SVCD is VBR Mpeg2 and is not supported.

and

SVCDs on the DXR3 are unsupported. While it may have been easy to play that particular SVCD for you, a lot of SVCDs do not play correctly\at all on the DXR3.

Maybe you can post it in the FAQ, too, so we can prevent confusion on this problem in the future.