Semless branchnig in Maestro?

[lighty]

OK- so I am trying to make a seamless branching in Maestro. I am using original video and ac3 files from The Phantom Menace and I wan't to make Phantom Edit version available by simply adding seamless branching.
I don't want to cut or reencode video- so I guess I have to play with playlist or something?
I know that Maestro support this feature but I don't know how to enable it.

Any suggestions would be welcome. Tnx

[TRILIGHT]

I haven't actually done what you're looking to do but I can't imagine it would be too hard. Set up "Command Sequences" to use. You can create a list of commands that will be run in order and use the command sequence as a button target. For instance, you could create a command sequence to access another clip and then set the sequence to return you right to the point you left afterwards.

The only thing is I don't really know how you would incorporate the button. I guess through some sort of subpicture setup as I'm sure was done in "The Matrix". There is no easy "seamless branching" menu to go to to or anything. Play with the command sequences and I'm sure you'll at least be halfway there. I know this isn't a perfect answer but surely this will get you on the right track. :)

[auenf]

use a playlist to do seamless branching in Spruce.

Enf...

[lighty]

Originally posted by auenf
use a playlist to do seamless branching in Spruce.

Enf...

Yes. My thought exactly- I will try to do that and see what happens. I will advise in this thread results (ina few days).

[cupid59]

By with play list, in Maestro, you cannot make seamless branching.
The system is NOT seamless, seamless need a special kind of multiplexering, not available nor in Maestro nor Scenarist or other pc-based DVD authoring tools.

Cupid

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by cupid59
By with play list, in Maestro, you cannot make seamless branching.
The system is NOT seamless, seamless need a special kind of multiplexering, not available nor in Maestro nor Scenarist or other pc-based DVD authoring tools.
Cupid

Wrong !

DVD provides the unique feature of allowing the user to switch between parallel video tracks seamlessly with continuous audio. Per the DVD-Video Specification, only one video track at a time can serve as the active (visible) stream; furthermore, there is always one main video track with as many as eight optional, alternate tracks, for a total of nine "camera angles" — so called because the application in mind when the DVD Spec was written was that these would represent different camera views, or angles, of the same subject. In reality, the different video streams may be anything.

Spruce authoring software fully supports seamless multi-angle video for each DVD Movie. With a total of nine video tracks, DVDMaestro supports the limit of nine camera angles (main video plus eight alternates). The base-level DVDConductor has two video tracks, supporting two angles (main video plus one alternate); by installing the DVDPowerPack upgrade, DVDConductor can also support up to nine angles.

Copyright © 2000 Spruce Technologies, Inc

and a howto:

With Spruce authoring software, creating multi-angle DVD Movies is relatively easy. Let’s run through the steps.
You can add a video asset to any video track, which in turn can serve as an "angle" stream. Per the DVD-Video Spec, however, your title must have information in the first (or main) video track, and any alternate tracks must be "filled" in order; in other words, if your title is going to use video track 3 as an alternate angle, you must use video track 2 as well.

Note: When encoding video assets that may be used in multi-angle DVD Movies, there are some important encoding-related restrictions. These are detailed in the accompanying Spruce Technologies Encoder Guide and reviewed later in this chapter (see Restrictions on Encoding for Multi-Angle Video).

To add a video asset to an alternate track to serve an alternate video angle:

1 Ensure one or more video assets are already in place in video track 1.
2 Expand the Video Timeline to display one or more of the alternate video tracks.
3 Drag the desired video asset from the Assets Bin into video track 2. This new "alternate angle" video asset will snap to the beginning of the Video Timeline, as shown on the next page.

Copyright © 2000 Spruce Technologies, Inc

and preview:

You can preview alternate video angles by using:

· the RealView Previewer;
· the Navigation Simulator;
· or, after compiling the Project, the DVDPlayer emulation utility.

As we’ll see, there are different advantages to each approach.
As you author the DVD Movie, using the RealView Previewer is the fastest way to preview an alternate angle, since you can launch it directly from the DVD Movie, as follows. . .

To preview an alternate video angle using the RealView Previewer:

1 Select the video track you wish to view by clicking on its associated track number button, as pictured below. The track number button will be highlighted, indicating that track will be the active video stream. If you wish, you can also reposition the PlayCursor (as described in Chapter 6) so that playback starts at some time other than the beginning of the DVD Movie.
2 Press the spacebar on your keyboard, or click the Play button. (All the transport controls and related keyboard shortcuts were introduced in Chapter 6.)

3 The selected alternate video angle will begin playing in the RealView Window.
4 You can pause and resume playback by pressing your keyboard’s spacebar or by clicking the Play/Pause button. To stop playback, simply click the Stop button.

Copyright © 2000 Spruce Technologies, Inc

and last but not least the restrictions:

As discussed in the Spruce Technologies Encoding Manual, when encoding video that may be used in multi-angle DVD Movies, there are several parameter settings that must be set as follows:

· All video streams must be encoded using a closed GOP Pattern.
· All video streams must have the same GOP structure throughout.
· The combined bit rate of any one video stream and all audio streams cannot exceed 8 Mbps (8,000,000 bps)
· To meet these requirements when encoding for use in multi-angle, you should:
· Encode all segments with the same setting of the GOP Structure and GOP Size parameters.
· Switch the New GOP on Scene Change parameter OFF, as it will modify the GOP structures in an uncontrollable fashion.

· If you are encoding shorter sections to be placed as multi-angle within limited areas of a longer main video, be careful to select a GOP size that can be rendered evenly with the length of the multi-angle section.
· Encode at bit rates that will total less than 8 Mbps when combined with all audio streams. (You may want to go lower to ensure compliance).

If you try to assemble multi-angle streams with MPEG assets that do not meet these requirements, you will encounter messages such as this:

If you have this situation, usually there is no alternative except to re-encode the assets with parameters that meet the requirements listed above.

Copyright © 2000 Spruce Technologies, Inc

some more:
Authoring with multi-angle video is an exciting capability of the DVD medium — though there are some disadvantages. The largest by far is that multi-angle video streams consume a corresponding multiple of disc space. For instance, a DVD disc capable of holding two hours of video (120 minutes), has its play time reduced to 60 minutes for two angles streams (120 divided by 2), and all the way down to just 13.3 minutes (120 divided by 9) if there are 9 camera angles.
Fortunately, there is a space-efficient method to create multi-angle DVD Movies — and that is to build DVD Movies that have a single angle (the main video) for most of their playing time, but that provide multiple angle streams in certain sections. This is known as using "mixed" angles and results in a DVD Movie that looks something like this:

A mixed-angle DVD Movie.


In the screenshot above, you can notice some important points about using mixed angles:

· The main video angle (video track 1) runs the full length of DVD Movie.
· Each multi-angle portion of the DVD Movie is aligned to a Chapter Point Marker; in other words, corresponding video assets all start at the same chapter start point.
· In each multi-angle portion, all the video assets (in each track) are the same length.
· All multi-angle portions have the same number of angles.

If you observe these points in planning your multi-angle video, you will find it quite easy to construct these kinds of programs.
Note: As mentioned earlier, multi-angle authoring requires that video streams have the same GOP structure and number of GOPs. In the case of mixed-angle authoring, this means that the shorter angle sections must match both the GOP structure and number of GOPS for the corresponding section of the main video. As discussed in the Spruce Technologies Encoding Guide, this can be particularly tricky to accomplish, as the encoder will truncate the last GOP to match the encode duration requests. If the duration desired does not equal a set number of GOPS, it will be necessary to change with the duration or the GOP structure (which then has to be applied to the main video as well).

To construct a mixed-angle DVD Movie:

1 Import the video assets you wish to use into the Assets Bin. Make sure that these are encoded so as to meet the requirements noted above.
2 Drag the main video asset into video track 1.
3 Expand you view of the Video Timeline to show one or more of the alternate video tracks as required.
4 Create a Chapter Point Marker (as described in Chapter 6) where you want the first multi-angle portion to begin. If multi-angle material starts from the beginning of the DVD Movie, this step is not needed.

5 Click-drag the first alternate video asset into video track 2 and release it somewhere to the right of the Chapter Point Marker.

The asset will "snap" left and align itself to the Chapter Point Marker. You’ll notice that a General Purpose Marker is placed automatically at the end of the alternate asset (if need be, it can be converted to a Chapter Point Marker, as described in Chapter 6).

6 Repeat steps 4 and 5 for any alternate angles assets as needed, until all required angles are filled.
7 Create additional Chapter Point Markers and alternate angle assets for all multi-angle portion.

Note: Remember, all multi-angle sections in a given DVD Movie must have the same number of alternate angles, and in each section, each alternate angle asset must be the same length.

A mixed-angle DVD Movie, with four alternate angles in place.


You may preview the mixed angle sections using the RealView Previewer, the Navigation Simulator, or (after compilation) DVDPlayer, just as if you were previewing a full-length multi-angle DVD Movie.
While the RealView Previewer still will not let you switch angles on the fly, it will switch seamlessly between the main video and whatever angle is selected for preview (as indicated by the highlighted track number button, as shown below), whenever playback passes into and out of a multi-angle portion of the DVD Movie.

Although you won’t see the "play flow" arrow on your screen, this illustration indicates which assets will be played back in what order by the RealView Previewer (assuming the track number button for video track 3 has been highlighted, as shown above).


To preview a mixed-angle DVD Movie using the RealView Previewer:

1 Select the video track you wish to view as the alternate angle by clicking on its associated track number button, as pictured above. The track number button will be highlighted, indicating that track will be the active video stream when playback reaches the location of the first asset in that track. If you wish, you can also reposition the PlayCursor (as described in Chapter 6) so that playback starts at some time other than the beginning of the DVD Movie — although be sure to place the PlayCursor before the start of the alternate angle track.

2 Press the spacebar on your keyboard, or click the Play button.
3 As the DVD Movie plays, you’ll see the image in the RealView Previewer will switch from track 1 (the main video) to the selected track (the alternate angle) and back again without any transition glitches. This is the same effect that will be experienced by the viewer of the finished DVD title.
4 As usual, you can pause and resume playback by pressing your keyboard’s spacebar or by clicking the Play/Pause button. To stop playback, simply click the Stop button.

Copyright © 2000 Spruce Technologies, Inc

regards, mike

[TRILIGHT]

Thanks for all the info, Mike! Where did you get all of that? I have not found some good solid info on Maestro. I've had to learn a lot of it myself. Anyway, I'm not sure I agree with you when it comes to the "multi-angle" definition of seamless branching. The guide you posted said...

Authoring with multi-angle video is an exciting capability of the DVD medium — though there are some disadvantages. The largest by far is that multi-angle video streams consume a corresponding multiple of disc space. For instance, a DVD disc capable of holding two hours of video (120 minutes), has its play time reduced to 60 minutes for two angles streams (120 divided by 2), and all the way down to just 13.3 minutes (120 divided by 9) if there are 9 camera angles.

The idea behind seamless branching is so that you DON'T have to take up the same amount of disc space just for a bit of extra footage. We see an example of this as described here (http://www.dvdangle.com/dvd_tech/explanation/seamless_branching.html).

Since there are only a few short differences between, say, the R-rated and Unrated versions of the movie seamless branching allows the authorist to use the same portions that appear in both - saving a lot of space on the disc. If you consider that 95% or more of the movies are identical the extra 'unrated' footage requires only an extra 5% of space on the disc.

The idea is that if a particular "flag" is set, then when the playback reaches a certain point, it will "jump out" to another asset and return to a timecode that matches the end of the clip in the original asset. In cases like "The Matrix", they jump you out to a completely different clip (the making of for that scene" and then return you to the exact point you left, allowing you to view the scene and continue watching the movie.

I still think the best way to accomplish this is via the "Command Sequences" option in Maestro. I'm just working on too many projects right now to test it out and post a guide. Maybe later this week.

[mikeathome]

Hi,

you read to the next paragraph in the same chapter:

(...)
Fortunately, there is a space-efficient method to create multi-angle DVD Movies — and that is to build DVD Movies that have a single angle (the main video) for most of their playing time, but that provide multiple angle streams in certain sections. This is known as using "mixed" angles and results in a DVD Movie that looks something like this ...

You are right, so is Spruce Tech. They refer to a full double content movie, which would in fact limit the overall playtime by half and does not really make sence from my point of view, but they are right in their assumptions.
The 'flag', you are refering to, is generated automatically by Maestro, everytime you put a new angle on an add'l video track in the timeline of Maestro (fully automatic). This allows you to switch streams whenever there is an add'l angle available, seamlessy. The disadvantage I see is, that you are pretty much limited to the overall bitrate not jumping above 9.000kbps (Spruce Tech says 8.000kbps, 9.000 will do as well, but don't go over 9.8MBPS including all audio and subpic).
The reason why you are limited is easy, since the video streams are really multiplexed all together (with audio and subpics) in this certain multiangle sections to achive this 'seamless' branching, exactly as described by cupid59 in his post. The player has to read the complete stream incl. all angle streams audio streams and subpics and does play the selected -> that's the only way to achive seamless branching.

Btw. the information I provided is from the original manual (see the copyright notes).
I do seamless branching from time to time and it works exactly as described in the manual (see my post above).

What you are saying about the Matrix with the comment is something totally different and has nothing to do with seamless branching. On a fast standalone player you may notice no gap while jumping, may be due to read ahead or other intellegent technologies built into the player but as said, has nothing to do with seamless branching. You can't reach that with command sequences.

Btw. you don't need command sequences for what you want to do with jumping out to a comment. Just create a visible/invisible button over video. I guess (I don't really know, but have done something similar) that's the way they did with Matrix (follow the White Rabbit, the White Rabbit could be created as a button over video).

A button over video you create as subpicture. Put a .bmp in a subpicture track, create a button and overlay with a matte. In the play settings you can later select whether you want to see your 'White Rabbit' subpicture stream or not. If you choosed to show it you will have the opportunity to branch out whenever it is shown on the screen by pressing the ok button (autoselect the button in the settings and set the right branch target). When the branch is ready played your end action jumps back to the chapter you left your main video.

regards, mike

[TRILIGHT]

Cool! Great info, Mike! When I was referring to a "flag", I was curious about this scenario: Is it possible to set up something in the main menu system (like many do with selecting the audio track that will play) so that you can select a particular "title"? In other words, have it so you could select, say, the "unrated" version from the menu. That, in turn, would set the flag that would say anytime there is a second angle, play that one instead. That way, it could be set before the movie ever starts and you have to push the "angle" button. Do you know what setting that would be? Thanks!

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by TRILIGHT
Cool! Great info, Mike! When I was referring to a "flag", I was curious about this scenario: Is it possible to set up something in the main menu system (like many do with selecting the audio track that will play) so that you can select a particular "title"? In other words, have it so you could select, say, the "unrated" version from the menu. That, in turn, would set the flag that would say anytime there is a second angle, play that one instead. That way, it could be set before the movie ever starts and you have to push the "angle" button. Do you know what setting that would be? Thanks!

Oh, understood, what your are looking for NOW is a conditional stream selection, IF AudioTrack = 1 then VideoAngle = 2 => there you need a command sequence ask 'auenf' he's much better in explaining Command sequences than me ;-).

mike

[DaveF71]

Originally posted by mikeathome


Oh, understood, what your are looking for NOW is a conditional stream selection, IF AudioTrack = 1 then VideoAngle = 2 => there you need a command sequence ask 'auenf' he's much better in explaining Command sequences than me ;-).

mike

I'm interested in doing something like this, as well (pop up an info page at certain times), but I wanted to set it up so that these "liner notes" would be turned on/off from the main menu of the DVD. That is, if they are selected, a BMP with text would appear, and then the viewer would hit "Enter" to resume play. Hm. This means that I'll have to set up a little mini-menu for each of these to make the "return to movie" buttons.

[auenf]

Originally posted by mikeathome
Oh, understood, what your are looking for NOW is a conditional stream selection, IF AudioTrack = 1 then VideoAngle = 2 => there you need a command sequence ask 'auenf' he's much better in explaining Command sequences than me ;-).

mike

* auenf's ears prick up

...someone call me?...

Originally posted by TRILIGHT
Cool! Great info, Mike! When I was referring to a "flag", I was curious about this scenario: Is it possible to set up something in the main menu system (like many do with selecting the audio track that will play) so that you can select a particular "title"? In other words, have it so you could select, say, the "unrated" version from the menu. That, in turn, would set the flag that would say anytime there is a second angle, play that one instead. That way, it could be set before the movie ever starts and you have to push the "angle" button. Do you know what setting that would be? Thanks!

ok, for that heres what i would try (head thought, should be fine in maestro)...

put your chapter points in, make sure you have a chapter point at the start and end of each of the multiangle parts too.

right click properties on the movie in the tree, and disable the angle changing (stream selection), if you are going to change the audio too, do the same.

in the connections view, make the 'end action' for the chapter just before the change to a command sequence: set angle (and audio if you like) by GPRM, (create a menu that chooses the rating and set the appropriate GPRM with the appropriate number), then resume.

the end action of the chapter where the extra angle is, create a 2nd command sequence to set the angle (and audio) back to 1 and resume, you should be able to use the same two command sequences for any of the bits

[sorry about missing that out when i posted this last night, got a little distracted when i was thinking...]

theoretically that would work, i would try, but i dont have any clips ready to work in multi-angle mode.

let me know what happens.

Enf...

[cupid59]

Seamless breanching and seamless multiangle is NOT the same!
In multiangle you need to have material with the same lenght, and gop size. Seamless branching allow different lenght of scenes and story.
So, i repeat. Spruce CANNOT make any kind of seamless branching(like indipendence day, a.e.), but yes, can multiplex seamless multiangle.
See in http://www.dvdmadeeasy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000117

by

Cupid

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by cupid59
Seamless breanching and seamless multiangle is NOT the same!
In multiangle you need to have material with the same lenght, and gop size. Seamless branching allow different lenght of scenes and story.
So, i repeat. Spruce CANNOT make any kind of seamless branching(like indipendence day, a.e.), but yes, can multiplex seamless multiangle.
See in http://www.dvdmadeeasy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000117
by
Cupid

Ok, if you dig into the last nut of the spec I have to agree with you, thanks for the info...

mike

[auenf]

Originally posted by cupid59
Seamless breanching and seamless multiangle is NOT the same!
In multiangle you need to have material with the same lenght, and gop size. Seamless branching allow different lenght of scenes and story.
So, i repeat. Spruce CANNOT make any kind of seamless branching(like indipendence day, a.e.), but yes, can multiplex seamless multiangle.
See in http://www.dvdmadeeasy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000117

by

Cupid

well, the problem with 'seamless' branching is more a player problem, the multiangle approach isnt how your supposed to do branching properly, im pretty sure you are supposed make the unrated (or full) version of the movie in the VTS, then make a playlist for each of the 'cuts', but there will be a little bit of a delay when it skips a part cause the player has to seek ahead a bit (sorta like the delay with dual layer currently)

Enf...