Is Ogg container finalized ?

[Manao]

I would like to know if I can begin to use ogg container with divX3 / 4 / 5 / xvid video stream, one or two audio stream in mp3 / ac3 / vorbis, and multiples subtitles, without risking a possible loss of compatibility with any further version ?
Another point : will the result be readable under linux and windows ? (last time I've tried, I could only get the sound under linux, with a xvid + vorbis file )

[Koepi]

Damnit.
would you please hit the search button?

The answer was already given several times some weeks ago.

This lazyness is making me really angry meanwhile.

There are so few nice people starting with this board, and USING it - but PLENTY people are coming here are ABUSING it.

Consider this your first strike.

[gabest]

You're so rude Koepi, I read through the whole board at least once a day and I can't remember whether this was discussed before. I wouldn't open a topic for such a question myself, but now that it happend, I opened it because I became interested. As a result I found myself in dead topic where nobody dares to post anything after reading your post. How much can such a post take up on the server? 1k? Even less? It is only you, the moderator of the section (and a few other fanatics :)) who have to check every stupid post. The others (who you are trying to serve of your own will) are mainly neutral about seeing redundant things.

[Koepi]

gabest,

before you try to insult me further, you should read the forum rules once more.

Since many newbie-boards closed we are getting flooded with redundant requests.
I don't know where your superiority over me comes from, but if you would have to manage a _quality_ board (this isn't VCDhelp or DigitalDigest or anything like that! it's doom9-board for god's sake!) you'd see the need to enforce the duty to inform yourself
before asking other people as well.

I don't want my time to be eaten up by _useless_ lazyness of some people. The forum search works pretty well, and it might take up to an hour to find what you searched for (btw., that's about the time you need to wait for the answer anyways), but you educate yourself while doing this. You get many insights into the matter, and that's one of our goals here.

If you can't cope with it, it's not my fault.

But I _for sure_ won't let this insult from YOU against me pass by this way.

[gabest]

Originally posted by Koepi
before you try to insult me further, you should read the forum rules once more.Ok, may be I said "rude" (and I still think you were), but I didn't want to insult you or make your work look less valuable.Since many newbie-boards closed we are getting flooded with redundant requests.This topic is NOT about some kind of off-topic stupidity. To your opinion should it still be conserned as an offensive flooding, an attack agains the forum?I don't know where your superiority over me comes fromAnd I too have absolutly no idea where your comes..., but if you would have to manage a _quality_ board (this isn't VCDhelp or DigitalDigest or anything like that! it's doom9-board for god's sake!) you'd see the need to enforce the duty to inform yourself
before asking other people as well.If it is too hard for you, and your nerves can't take it, then why are you doing it?I don't want my time to be eaten up by _useless_ lazyness of some people.Yep, you see that crystal clear, this is one of the drawbacks being a moderator. See my previous question.The forum search works pretty well, and it might take up to an hour to find what you searched for (btw., that's about the time you need to wait for the answer anyways), but you educate yourself while doing this."Repetitiu est mater studiorum"

[Koepi]

You really feel like I owe you service?

May I bring you a beer?
Help you on the toilet?

This is about using the search function.

And _I_ don't need to study that stuff, so it's no mother of my knowledge or anything (thought you would beat me down with some latin? Tses. This gets really odd.)

I demand that respect that I give to you from you as well. So asking questions already answered is disrespecting my efforts.

Your disrespect is clearly visible by demanding me kissing your feet.

I'm near to give you a strike for forum rules violations as well.

Btw., IF you'd use the search functions of this forum, and just entered "ogg format compatible", forum: new a/v formats, you'd see as _only_ link:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17441&highlight=ogg+format+compatible


It took me even _less_ than a minute.

So, as you can clearly see, you're on the wrong side.

But thanks for making me even more angry.

*******

[gabest]

Originally posted by Koepi
And _I_ don't need to study that stuff, so it's no mother of my knowledge or anything (thought you would beat me down with some latin? Tses. This gets really odd.)Means, "repeating is the mother of knowledge". So, asking and answering the same question many times couldn't be that bad...
Btw., IF you'd use the search functions of this forum, and just entered "ogg format compatible", forum: new a/v formats, you'd see as _only_ link:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17441&highlight=ogg+format+compatiblePfff, a topic nearly two months old and not even answering the question whether the format is finalized.But thanks for making me even more angry.Ah, come on, we are on the internet. You should not take anything serious written here :)

[kastro68]

Reluctantly, I have to agree with Koepi.

I seldom come to these forums now because the same questions tend to be asked once before. It is no fun reading about a problem that has been solved long ago...and to have to sift through posts that are irrelevant to me are a pain.

I just pop in every now and then to see if Xvid with B frames are up and running.

Unfortunately, humans are lazy and like to take the easy road. I too am guilty of choosing the easy path at times.

So I'm a hypocrite, that is also part of human nature.

[Neo Neko]

Eeeeeew venom! Icky! Seemes everyone is on edge. Lets just settle down and start over. Hey I frequented Divx.com. Massive redundancy was a fact of life. I understand Keopi's dislike of it. But I can also understand the others fealing the question was not answered directly or propperly.

So here for your enjoyment should be the status, the whole status, and nothing but the status. The OGG file format has been in place for several years. Everything Tobias has done was gleened from the xiph.org specs. The xiph.org specs are quite mature. If they do alter the specs for some reason in the future though it should not effect compatability. xiph.org has worked hard to make their specs the most flexible and expandable specs on the planet. So yes the specs are finalised, but the whole project will continue to have contiuous development.

The filters to read or write the OGG files are still being worked on by Tobias. But at this point it is mostly bug squashing and perfecting the implementation.

[Manao]

Thank you for your answer Neo Neko

@Koepi : I've have to admit that I didn't search before posting. I read the sticky, where I found that the issue was not solved, and I thought ( and I was wrong ) that if it had been solved, it would have been written in the sticky.

So I apologize for the first question. ( But the even if it does not excuse myself, the answer was not in the thread you posted )

For the second, it seems that ogg movied cannot yet be played under linux. What is exactly the problem ? I don't understand because I thought ogg was a container developped at the beginning for linux.

[Koepi]

linux: mplayer.

[Rumata]

mplayer plays OGG container ? With all the newest features ? Chapters, multiple audio/subtitles ?

[Koepi]

What's this supposed to mean? Also too lazy to lookup informations yourself?

Yes, sure, the mplayer developers have nothing better to do as to write support for features introduced 48 hours ago and have it running after a few seconds thinking of it...

To directly answer your question:
Of course _not_.

http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/

-> MPlayer 0.90pre1 released - 2002.04.21
.
.
.
- ability to view or encode DVD/vobsub and/or text subtitles into the output AVI
- ability to display subtitles under the image, on black bands
- support for more fileformats, including the new and very popular .ogg
.
.
.

Just have a look for yourself.

[Hanty]

It would have taken 2 word to answer the original request. But it took 6 sentences to chastize him.

[Manao]

@Koepi : Thank you for the answer.

@Hanty & gabest: please, don't make this thread degenerate. I was wrong, let the thread end.

[Hanty]

This isn't about you.

[Suman]

Smart kids don't mess with their parents when they need new toys to play with.

[Foo]

Well on this one I'd say both Koepi and Gabest have valid points. I will say that the search function isn't used nearly enough (not even talking about you Manao), but this is a common problem, not just on forums. Most of the questions asked all over the net (forums, nntp, etc.) could be answered with a search of some sort. I just did a search for "zoom player" in the subtitle forum, and it answered my question about ZP+vobsub (more accurately Gabest answered it when he said the lack of the taskbar util was at Blight's request).

Now onto better news, Tobias has stated repeatedly that backwards compatibility is one of his highest priorities. So I think it's safe to go into the water Manao :).

I'll have to have a closer look at the latest mplayer. Last I tried it could play the vorbis audio, but the video was a no go. Great news if it works.

cheers,

foo

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Foo Well on this one I'd say both Koepi and Gabest have valid points. I will say that the search function isn't used nearly enough (not even talking about you Manao), but this is a common problem, not just on forums.

You will probably never achieve a 100% efficiency on an internet forum here, but the success of this board is certainly based on the fact that a big number of developers and highly knowledgable people are reading and posting here. To preserve this situation it is essential to reduce the number of redundant posts to an absolute minimum, which is reflected in the forums rules, being very strict here.

After all this post here would have been avoided ( as the author was stating ) if the subject was handled in the FAQ. It is partially, but not fully ... so me and my co-moderators are to blame also. In fact i didnt touch it for about 2 months, so we dont have to wonder about threads like this appearing.


Now onto better news, Tobias has stated repeatedly that backwards compatibility is one of his highest priorities. So I think it's safe to go into the water Manao :).

Well, this is certianly true about the main header and structure of the files, but i am a bit uncertain about the subtitles etc. . Perhaps Tobias could clarify if the subtitles muxer he has done if fully according to Ogg specs or his baby ?

In the MCF specs the subtitles implementation is very much defined now ( although i am not completely happy as we cant use VOBsub with it as it is now ), again i am not sure about Tobias Ogg implementation.

Manao's question about compatibility to LINUX is a good example why i am still investing time into MCF, instead of dropping it to the advantage of Ogg, the format we have now without having to wait.

So what is it that is giving me doubts ?? Check this :

http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/doc/oggstream.html
http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/doc/framing.html

This is the only documentation about the Ogg format i found when searching the http://www.xiph.org homepage. You find any description or documentation about how subtitles are put into an Ogg container ?? I cant. Ingo and Tronic told me once the Ogg container is more or less a general file container where you may put everything and nothing into.

So now my questions is : If a LINUX developer will start to code parser etc. for Ogg container, can he read and use a movie that was created with Tobias' filters on Windows ? What about Mac OS ?

Nobody could answer me these questions yet. So, now have a look at this page here :

http://mcf.sourceforge.net/mcf.htm#extended

See the difference ?

I know this is turning into being a bit OT now because Manao's question was whether it will be possible to play an .ogm movie on LINUX or not.

The answer is : AFAIK it is not possible for the time being, and i dont know if it will be ever ! Hopefully yes if the coder implementing will do it same way Tobias has been doing things for Windows. If he/they is/are doing things different, it probably won't be possible at all ...

[Koepi]

Christian,

with all respect, but:

you CAN play ogm on linux.
Follow the link I gave to mplayer and see for yourself. You could also look into their mail-archives and see what's happening there.

So please, don't falsify information for pushing another format.

It wwill be possible for sure even to use chapters and subtitles with linux, it's - as usual - just a matter of time.

Koepi

[ChristianHJW]

Originally posted by Koepi you CAN play ogm on linux.
Follow the link I gave to mplayer and see for yourself. You could also look into their mail-archives and see what's happening there.
So please, don't falsify information for pushing another format

Sorry. I had no clue. Not even a single hint about this before, from no side. Seems as if the guys have been in contact with Tobias and did things the very same. If this will happen for all the other stuff Tobias is implementing we won't have problems with Ogg compatibility ..... again, sorry ! Added link to the 'Important Links' sticky ....

[Milkman Dan]

Enh. Nevermind. It doesn't make a difference anyway.

[Neo Neko]

Seems the original question in this thread has been taken care of. And there has been an awful lot of venom and terse words exchanged. Therefore I feal this thread has reached the end of it's usefullness as the pertinant info has been added by Christian to the sticky and important links. So as of now I will be locking it so it does not wander off into unwanted territory.



And now for something completely different..........