Capturing NTSC VHS

[RoopeT]

Last night I tried to capture an NTSC VHS tape (into SVCD), which I haven't done before, as I live in PAL region. My VCR plays NTSC too, and it looks ok on TV. However, I can't find setting for my TV card to display it correctly on my PC.

My capture card is Terratec TV Value. Tried it on Win XP with btwincap WDM drivers and VirtualDub + iuVCR and on Win98 with Terratec VfW drivers and VirtualDub. Tried to change the TV system to NTSC M, NTSC J, NTSC 433, PAL NC and all the other PAL options available, but nothing worked. If I chose NTSC (M/J)and a framerate of 29.97, frame size 720x480, the picture was ok but in B&W. PAL B (the default) showed colors, but the picture was cutted so that ~150 first lines were shown on the bottom. Some other systems gave a picture with completely messed fields.

The picture is Ok and with colors when watching it with DScaler and selecting PAL60, but I don't have this option on my TV card drivers. Should I try to capture with PAL B settings and then afterwards rebuild the images with avisynth filters or are there any easier options available?

[tenebrenz]

I recently captured PAL60 using the btwincap drivers and virtual dub, can't understand why you don't have the option.
Should I try to capture with PAL B settings and then afterwards rebuild the images with avisynth filters or are there any easier options available?
No, I would rather buy a new capture card than try that!

[RoopeT]

I don't have PAL60 option in Win98 VfW drivers, but I too noticed I have this option with btwincap drivers. I captured the tape last night with flycap (PAL60, 720x480, 29.97 fps ?Are these the right setting when using PAL 60?), and from a very brief check the capture seemed to be OK.

[tenebrenz]

They are the exact settings I used, then decomb to inverse telecine.

[scharfis_brain]

I am Trying the same like RoopeT.
Capturing a NTSC-Tape with a PAL-VCR in PAL60.

But I have a lot of FrameDrops while capturing the VHS.
If I use DSCALER watching this VHS, the Video plays fluent without drops.

So I tried the BT8x8-Tweaker to reduce the drops.
(I shifted down the whole Image to avoid capturing the few messed up lines at the bottom of the video, which will reduce drops)

But the BtWinCap-Driver is ignoring the Tweakers settings and sets it back to its own defaults, when I start the Capture.

This default Btwincap-settings show a large black bar at the right of the picture (about 32pixels of 640) and the image is shifted up serveral lines.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

@tenebrenz

is your PAL60 cap really 29,97 (or 30fps,no matter),or it
only says this numbers in VDub info?
i was doing this,but got only about 15fps trueframerate
(ie. it jerked on playback and acted like 15fps....average fps rate indicated by vdub during cap was cca. 15fps too...)

same with you?
if not,would you please look what version of btwincap u use...

btw.bt-tweaker has to be "reasserted" after the cap begins...just leave it opened,hit F6(start capture) and hit "reassert" on tweaker...then it'll stick......

[scharfis_brain]

Many many thanks to you! the bt8x8-tweaker-tips works, no more drops!

Now a hint for you: I tried to cap the Tape with YUV2 but this resulted in a 30fps video with every 2nd frame dropped (so I can say 15fps). Then I tried rgb24 and everything was fine!

I have a final question: How can I change the Videostandard (PAL-B,NTSC, PAL60, SECAM) without reinstalling the BTwincap driver? I haven't found a dialogue to configuere this.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

>Now a hint for you: I tried to cap the Tape with YUV2 but this resulted in a 30fps video with every 2nd frame dropped (so I can say 15fps). Then I tried rgb24 and everything was fine!

NICE TOUCH!
thanks,will try that next time i try PAL60..although it's pretty rare
occasion.....

>I have a final question: How can I change the Videostandard (PAL-B,NTSC, PAL60, SECAM) without reinstalling the BTwincap driver? I haven't found a dialogue to configuere this

probably talking Veedub again?
yes,indeed it's missing that dialog box (probably because of that wrapper shit etc.)

here's a tip;try some wdm capture proggie ("atv2000" will do,and it's freeware...)and with it you'll be able to access btwincap completely!
change it there,and voila,it stays changed...


btw. tell me another thing,(as i had some poor NTSC tape,so no real reference...)
is the color on PAL60 acceptable ,and would it be possible to post (to me or some web) few screenshots?
if no web,please use this email;
kosta_@net.hr

respect......

/ivo

PS. this lil candy goes to my web archive for sure....

[scharfis_brain]

the colors seem to be ok. I had to reduce the saturation before doing the capture because the colors had been oversaturated.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

i got a hold of NTSC tape sooner than i thought:
a few experiences of mine (as an addition to scharfis comments)

RGB32 is needed (at least for me) because YUY2 gets image with wrong colors.....(not so much the framedrop issue)

image needs to be nudged a bit towards bottom to reduce drops (with "top border" slider of bt8x8 tweaker)
(and this is a good hint by sch.-> only cropping (in vdub) won't help,as this is to late to be helpfull (as capture card is already struggling with input signal and faialing!)
dscaler (dtv) dll's access the hardware directly ,so the capture card is not getting those nasty noise lines at all!)

also,the image cannot be nudged at will,but the proper interlacing has to be preserved...just watch the preview (while nudging) to achieve this....wrong interlacing is easy to spot!

now i have captured short sample i'm off to see how IVTC goes
(probably telecide/decimate)............

edit;seems like bt8x8 tweaker window has to stay ON during the capture;when i turned it off (by "ok" or "x") frames started to drop...probably btwincap took control as soon as bt8x8 tweaker window was turned off.....

[scharfis_brain]

I used this Script to filter my PAL-60-captureLoadPlugin("c:\dvdrip'in\decomblegacy.dll") #\
LoadPlugin("c:\dvdrip'in\convolution3d.dll") #->- Plugins laden
LoadPlugin("c:\dvdrip'in\chromashift.dll") #/
LoadPlugin("c:\dvdrip'in\unfilter.dll") #

segmentedavisource("D:\total-recall\capture.avi") #Video laden

trim(50,0) #Anfang des Video cutten

crop(0,0,0,-4) #VHS-Linien wegschneiden (headswitch)

Telecide() #Bilder Progressive machen\
# }- IVTC
Decimate(cycle=5) #jedes 5. Bild entfernen /

unfilter(-100,0) #Hohe Frequenzen glaetten, die ueber der
#VHS-Bandbreite liegen
convolution3d(0,6,18,14,18,20,0) #NoiseReduction

unfilter(100,0) #Schaerfe wiederherstellen

a=levels(15,1.4,248,0,255).chromashift(U=4,V=4,L=-2).trim(0,156960)
#Helligkeit anpassen
#VHS-Farversatz ausgleichen
#Hauptfilm auswaehlen

b=levels(40,1.8,200,0,255). greyscale.trim(156961,162464)
#End-Credits superweiss machen
#Schwarweiss, um Crosscolour Zu vermeiden
#End-Credits auswaehlen

return a + b #Hauptfim & End-Credits zusammenfuegen
It worked very well.

Next time I'll test, whether the bt8x8-tweaker-trick also works with PAL-Tapes...
btw: I am too lazy to translate the comments, sorry.

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

why use "levels" is you have "tweak"?
but this

greyscale.trim(156961,162464)

is interesting........also have you tried "guavacomb" for crosscolor
(although i see u hate crosscolor only on endtitles..hehe)?
i'm currently encoding it and i'm just doing mild grapesmoother(35),without resizing (i see you didn't resize too..nice!),129min to 2 cdr's......

>Next time I'll test, whether the bt8x8-tweaker-trick also works with PAL-Tapes...

hehe,i thought of this too!although i don't have real problems with any PAL tapes etc.(so i won't be testing it...)

btw. have you tried horiz. sharpening only trick with avs2.08 as someone suggested in avs forum?
i usually go for unsharp mask (from warpsharp.dll) if i need some sharpening....but i prefer to keep higher resolution instead,as most of blurring is done by resizer itself.....(yes,bicubic blurs too.only less then bilinear)

[scharfis_brain]

the crossclour-effekt wasn't very noticable within the movie, but the endcredits were really rainbow-colored, so I decided to make them greyscale (since it is white text on black background, hehe). A sideeffect is, that I'm getting rid of the color-noise!

The different levels-paramter for movie & Credits I've choosen, to make the Credits with more Contrast and less much noise, because of the wished oversaturation of white and black (But with a text-only image this don't matter).

sorry but I wasn't able to understand this: why use "levels" is you have "tweak"?

[^^-+I4004+-^^]

from avs205 doc:
>Tweak
Tweak(clip, float "hue", float "sat", float "bright", float "cont")
This function provides the means to adjust the hue, saturation, brightness, and contrast of a video clip.

i use it rather than silly "complicated for it's own sake" levels

[scharfis_brain]

I hate it to play with contrast and brightness parameters, because the results are not very predictable...
When I use Levels, I get what I want: an exactly filled lumarange. This is impossible to achive with bright./cont.-settings only.

[communist]

Sorry to bump this ancient thread but I'm trying the same (capping a NTSC tape with a PAL VCR as PAL60). DScaler shows it fine when selecting PAL60. However VDub will drop lots of frames because of the messed up lines at the bottom. My problem is that the BT 8x8 tweaker I have (from dTV 2.12) doesnt allow me to shift the whole picture down - only up. According to the cap guide I have the old version of the BT8x8 tweaker http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/capture/bt_tweaker.html.

Having tested the drv/vxd/dlls from several dTV versions either gives me the 'old tweaker'or the "bt 8x8 not detected - are you sure you have one?" message in VDub.

Anyone can point me to a direction where to obtain newer version of BT 8x8 tweaker?
Or is there another way to cap PAL60 with my card?

[scharfis_brain]

you also should install the BtWinCap driver for your capturecard

[Arachnotron]

you also should install the BtWinCap driver for your capturecardHe probably already is using it (otherwise he could not capture PAL-60 at all). However, there is a bug in the timing settings for PAL-60 the BTwincap driver causing a few lines of the the capture window to fall outside the NTSC frame. My guess is the HDelay and Vdelay values for PAL were used by mistake instead of the proper NTSC ones.

[communist]

I'm not sure what really fixed it - but reinstalling btwincap was probably what made it work. The bit that I could shift the image down resulted in a lot less dropped frames (~100 in 3-4 hours of capturing).

DScaler does a pretty good job on directly accessing bt8x8 hardware and outputs nice pictures - unfortunately its rather limited in its capturing procedures especially if you need to process the capture a bit for encoding to various formats.

Thanks for the help though :)

[seggitek]

Thanks a million times. I had exactly the same problem and could fix it with this thread.