Which is the best very low bitrate codec?

[Tommy Carrot]

I found that the mpeg4 based codecs not really at their peaks at low bitrates (~100 kbps with 320*240*25).

So far my experiments:

Divx 3/4/5 / Xvid - blockfest.
WMV 8 - framedrops, not really better quality than the above.
Realvideo - dunno how to encode into it, and i do not like the player.
VP3 - even the most "acceptable". The details are entirely missing, but no ugly artifacts.

Can anyone suggest a codec, which gives better results for so low bitrate?

[Ookami]

>100 kbps with 320*240*25

Er, such a low bitrate with 320x240 and 25 FPS? Can you see anything? If you must encode at such bitrates then:

a) use a smaller resolution
b) lower the FPS as it doesn't matter anyhow (I really doubt that you see ANYTHING at such bitrates)

So, it's not the codecs, it's more your settings...

About RM encoding, you can always use, for instance, VirtualDub as a frameserver to the RM producer...

Cheers,

Ookami.

[jggimi]

320x240, but you want it to fit in a dual-band ISDN bandwidth, or a cable-modem upload, for streaming?

Cut the frame rate ... 15fps should help dramatically, regardless of codec.

Have you considered dropping the resolution further? Most low-bandwidth streaming video (and those are 300kbps, not 100) use much smaller resolutions. 100kbps video streams are usually postage stamps.

[Leuf]

If you don't need the result to be streamable, there is a registry hack for real producer, change the key HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Software\RealNetworks\RealProducer\8.5\Preferences\VBR Latency to a large number, like 400000. This greatly improves the results you get. I know the real player is evil, and the encoder is just as bad (Why the heck are all the settings stored in the registry? never heard of .ini files?) but I haven't found anything better at low bitrates. I do 320x240 24fps at 225 kbit, and the results are very watchable even at 2:1 or fullscreen if you sit back a bit. For 100 kbit, I would really drop the res down to 160x120 and 15 fps. But I think you'll be surprised at the quality you can get.

[Tommy Carrot]

Thanks for the advices! The res lowering is definetaly helps.

BTW, I've tried the Adobe premiere's realvideo exporter plugin (rv8). It's a big mess, i hate it (just like the player:D ), but the result is indeed better, than with the above codecs. From all the divx codecs, the version 3 is the best at low bitrates, just the framedrops i don't like :(.

Anyone tried the VP4 codec? I know it ain't good for Dvd-backups :), but what i heard it is very usable at low bitrates. Any experiments?

[31 Flavas]

Heh, there is kind of a 'piece it togther' guide i've written in the new A/V format forum on RV9 (thread is RealVideo9 codec). Basicly, it involves DVD2AVI and avisynch. There is also a some discussion on it there. But there seems to be a pretty big "resistance" factor here so i'll just leave it at this.

-Flavas

[TheWEF]

IMHO real media is the best at very low bitrate (never tried VP3 though).

to get the best results you have to use real producer plus with 2-pass encoding.

wef.

[Latexxx]

New real producer 9 preview gives you all features for free.

[Tommy Carrot]

I've tried realproducer 9. The quality it gives is amazing even at ~100 kbits... just the player I do not like. Is there any other way to play it? (not streaming, just local playback)

EDIT: sorry, i did not see the topic about this :)

[31 Flavas]

nope.

Only through RealOne or older RealPlayer 8. I hated RealOne as well, but it has grown on me.

It askes you for your email a few times, but if you "cancel" each of the three times it asked you it shuts up for ever. Or just give it fake info and that will shut it up too.

What player do you use?

[Tommy Carrot]

Well, i'm using Realplayer 8. I know the RealOne is newer, but my experiments about realplayers: the newer, the worse :). Is RealOne really worth the upgrading? Has better interface or any advantages?

[31 Flavas]

You may want to check it out.

Its cleaner / more professional and the 'my library' allows you to oraganize your songs and movies by artist, album, genere, etc. RealOne can also rip cds on the fly to Wave, Realaudio8 (any bitrate), or to a maximum of 96kps in MP3 (if you pay its uncapped). It burn custom cds if you have a cd recorder. And maybe not so important it also has a WinAmp style 'Mini web browser'. Basicly RealOne is WMP7 just better, IMO.

Music CDs encoded to RealAudio8 (with ATRAC3) are not any better or worse audio quality wise, or file size wise, that I can tell, but (duh!) can only be played by RP8 or RealOne.

Here's a screen shot:

http://www.enteract.com/~dwarf/realone.jpg

If you click the Globe / Earth thing in the uper right coner (below the X and Maximize buttons) it gets rid of all the crap and olny shows the video and Play/Pause button and track bar.

-flavas