Request: Help with MCF-CD DShow filter [Archive] - Page 3

spyder

30th April 2002, 02:01

Why do you have to have a different compile of the filter for each file type? I figured the next filter would just call back to the source filter for so many bytes from a certain position in the file. if that were the case, it shouldn't matter what type of file it was if the next filter would determine type like when you use the File Source filter. I know the source filter doesn't have to have the type hard coded into it or we would not be able to use the Ogg DS filters. From what I see in the Async Filter source, it does just what I said, calls back for data. In that case it should be easy to code once you can translate the positions correctly and be able to read over multiple sectors. I am not trying to make anyone look stupid. If this is not the case please tell me. I am just trying to help because I would really love to be able to put 800MB on a CD. I have little experience in C++ but I know basicly how DirectShow filters work. I have no experience in DShow programming though.

avih

30th April 2002, 02:18

@spider:
the source to the filter is attached to the download.

you may have a look at it. attached are only the modified files (asyncflt.h and asyncflt.cpp) from the sample 'file source filter' from the directx8.1 sdk (samples\multimedia\dshow\filters\async)

Why do you have to have a different compile of the filter for each file type?

this is an annoying question. please find 10 mins to spare, and read all of the posts on this thread. you will get your answer. u can also read the readme.txt and warning.txt files that are attached to the download.

regarding the skippy playback from your HD: since many ppl found it to work well so far, it's not very probable that it doesn't parse the file correctly only for you. therefore i suggest doing a manual test (this is for an ogg file, for mp3 file mofidy step 1 accordingly):

1. double click the register_ogg_media.bat file. make sure you get a message box that the filter was registered ok.
2. open graphedit -> insert filter -> dshow filters-> RIFF/CDXA source-> select your dat file that was created from an ogg file.
3.right click on the output pin and select 'render'
4. press 'play' let us know if it plays ok now.

spyder

30th April 2002, 03:01

No matter what I do it will say it cant render the pin and it won't connect to the Ogg splitter. I unregistered all of the different compiles to make sure they werent conflicting and then re-registered the Ogg file one. No change. The MP3 works fine now though, must have been Microsoft crap screwing it up.

avih

30th April 2002, 03:31

spyder:

- do u have the latest ogg dshow installed? (0.9.9.1 i think).
- what kind of ogg stream are you trying (audio or a/v)?
- did u have any success with 'avi' files?
- does the original file playes from your hd with wmp? (the ogg file, NOT the dat)

AlwSN5

30th April 2002, 06:00

I burned a 799 mb ogm file (1 XviD stream, 1 Ogg audio stream) and it reads off the cd perfectly. It actually reads smother than most cds I burn in mode 1. Just wanted to give you another report of success.

Regards,
Alw Seldon

ReferenceDivx

30th April 2002, 07:18

I also just burned a 790 MB (Xvid, Ogg) file to a cd. It worked awsome. It seeked perfectly and played back great. I didnt see any errors, but maybe after a few years the cdr will go bad. But for now this technology is looking great.

Keep up the good work guys!

P.S. I've been working on a secret video coding project for the last couple weeks. Hopefully eventually I'll be able to release it.

TheXung

30th April 2002, 10:03

Are you guys sure ogm is that immune to errors in the stream? I tried truncating an ogm file on my hard drive and while it still played, it pretty much lost seeking ability.

Demone

30th April 2002, 10:07

Success here too.
I burned a perfectly 800mb avi file (after de_xt tool, nero reported it to be 812mb) and I'm moving to a 90 minutes cdr just to see if I can reach 900mb.
I noticed some slow down, but I think its only a media problem.

avih

30th April 2002, 10:32

Originally posted by TheXung
Are you guys sure ogm is that immune to errors in the stream? I tried truncating an ogm file on my hard drive and while it still played, it pretty much lost seeking ability.

we still don't know exactly how much ogg is immuned to errors.

we will talk to tobias, and ask him for the preffered protection scheme for ogg files.

do remember, there's NO error correction yet. when we have error correction implemented, we'll start looking for best protection scheme for each media type.

@spyder and everyone else without success:
if u still don't succed in using this stuff, can u pls describe the WHOLE process in much details. don't say 'the file' for example, but 'aviseq00.dat' etc. the WHOLE precess pls. and do make sure the original file plays ok before you start using this 800M stuff. and also, try with daemon tools before u actually burn. it it won't play with daemon, it won't play from the burned cd.
if you were experiencing problems, but managed to solve them, pls share this info, such that others can benifit from it.

@all ppl reporting:
thx. that's very nice to hear it's working for many :), keep them comming (yes, even the bad ones), and also report your OS, i think it could also be a source of problem, but i don't know yet.

avi

Demone

30th April 2002, 14:42

My current OS is Win2k, I'm going to test it with XP too.
BTW how to mount the file without burn it ?
thx

Ughie

30th April 2002, 15:56

you can mount the file without burning it with daemon tools. http://www.daemon-tools.com

all the test that i have done are with windows XP. Works good

DeXT

30th April 2002, 20:40

@ErMonnezZa & spyder: I think this "seeking forever" problem, as well as the unrecognized file and/or choppy MP3 playback, are due to a conflict between our RIFF/CDXA reader filter and another existing CDXA filter (usually third-party MPEG-2 filters such as Elecard, or the MS "VCD source" -- in fact the MPEG splitter). When one of these filters load the DAT file, it will start seeking the entire file looking for MPEG content. To avoid this try to uninstall such filters .The M$ one can be deactivated with the following registry patch (it can be restored, too):

http://webs.ono.com/de_xt/vcd_source_patch.zip

So I'd suggest you to try this patch and report any change. This does not mean you won't be able to watch VCD content, though.

@spyder: well about your troubles with OGG, are you completely sure the file is being burned properly? Some burners seems having trouble with Mode2 content. So first you should try this: convert the file back to its oroginal form with my dat2file and try to play it, if it doesn't works this means your burner probably has meessed up the file contents when burning. In this case I'd suggest you to try to burn as a single track with Nero: File/Burn image, load *.BIN (not CUE!), select Mode2 and burn.

However if it works fine then you know the file is right and the problem is in the DS filter. As I said I think it's due to a filter conflict so try the procedure above mentioned.

@RefDivx: I'd LOVE seeing your work ;)

@spyder (again): the recompiled versions are just a dirty hack to allow you to use any content different than MP3/MPEG, because of the lack of Media Type detection code in the filter (yet). BTW thanks for the code, but I think the avih one is implemented the same way.

@all of you reporting: thank you very much, without your notes we couldn't fix potential problems and of course seeing when we are taking the right path!

DeXT

1st May 2002, 00:29

BTW the Media Type detection is out, now you can use any file format without having to switch between different compiles. Avih published it in this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24288

Now the only thing left is buffering I guess.

spyder

1st May 2002, 02:45

I don't have time to thoroughly test the new filters yet though I have tried them once and still a no go with any type. I think it has something to do with the incompatibility of filters. I tried the registry hack some one posted but it says its not a valid registry script. I am using windows 98 SE (ancient I know but cant afford XP yet). I did test the older filters with grapedit and it worked with MP3 but not OGG. I will try the new ones later or maybe tomorrow. I feel very ignorant for posting the code when it is almost identical to avih's version. I am just not use to the separation of code in c++. I didn't think to look in the header file. All of the code I had been working on is right there(but in c++). You guys are doing a great job. I will try the new filters out and will explain in detail what happens. Don't worry about the CDs, I am using a CD-RW(fully erasing). My burner has no problem with mode 2 but I tried Daemon tools and it didn't work so I thought maybe burning it would work an maybe Daemon tools had something off in it. I am glad that you have the media detection type figured out. That's great. I will let you know how the tests go. Meanwhile maybe someone could post a Registry fix for every version of Windows (If they already haven't).

spyder

1st May 2002, 03:17

OK, after plunging into the registry and deleting all keys with the GUIDs listed in the regfix(since it wouldn't work on 98se apparently) and re-registering the new filter(updated the REG again), I have gotten all files I tried to work(from Daemon tools and CD-RW). One is an OGM(XviD with Vorbis) and two were MP3(one w/CRC one w/o). All worked fine. AVI also works(DivX 5 w/MP3).

The only other thing besides Error checking that I think should be implemented is some way of determining how long the file originally was so that the trailing zeroes can be chopped. This might be able to allow ID3 tags to work on the MP3s again. They will not work with the extra zeroes because they are normally the last 128 bytes and start with 3 bytes("TAG", v1 & v1.1 anyway). ID3 v2 I think is different because it uses frames within the file I think. Maybe we could add a sector to the beginning of each track to include this and any other information about the track(maybe a CRC of the original file perhaps to verify extraction). A lot could be stored in 2324 bytes. it should only require that you tell it how many bytes were filled at the end of the track so we would only need 16-bits at most because of the sector size.

ph2t

1st May 2002, 05:54

Guys,

just a quick one, I've noticed every CD I've burnt now comes up the the volume label MCF-CD. Is there a way yet to be able to change the CD volume label? I take it that it is stored in the .BIN file.

Regards,

Ph2t.

DeXT

1st May 2002, 12:08

@spyder: I'm glad you finally solved it. Yes it seems it was a filter conflict as I suspected. Sorry it was my fault with the registry patch files, they were in Unicode format and Win98 doesn't support that. It's fixed now.

About the file length issue, I talked about it some time ago, this is one of the main limitations of "generic" M2F2 format, so the only way of fixing this is to use an "extended" format such as MCF-CD or XCD. This is why I wouldn't recommend using this for "real work". Anyways I think ID3v2 should work fine since it's located at the start of the file.

@ph2t: yes I forgot to remove this, sorry. I will fix this in the next release along with some new command line options to put your own volume label, etc. Meanwhile you can change it from the BIN image itself with a good hex editor such as HEdit.

spectra

1st May 2002, 14:51

i first had some problems with the reg entries as they were pointing to a wrong filter and as a result my media player was seeking the cd infinitely.

now after reading some posts and cut-and-pasting some posted regfiles - i ended up with playing a 775MB DivX5-VBR MP3 avi file directly from cdrw without problems.

my final w98 filter-regfile locks like this, i don't know if this could help anybody but with my system it worked.
(i take no responsibility for screwing up your system)

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Media Type\{e436eb83-524f-11ce-9f53-0020af0ba770}\{E436EB85-524F-11CE-9F53-0020AF0BA770}]
"0" = "0,4,,52494646,8,4,,43445841,60,8,00FFFFFF00FFFFFF,0100680001006800"
"Source Filter" = "{950AD390-D2DA-4029-BFD6-ECF019D3EF56}"

ErMonnezZa

1st May 2002, 18:10

OK: using the reg Key given by Dext(tnx :) ) and putting manually(since my s.o. is w98 S.E.) now i can finally watch the video stream but i have some problems:

1) i can only open the movie with bs player, (if i try using mediaplayer2 it goes to the eternal loop,finally giving vxd error and strange blu screens of death)

2)i can't hear the ac3 audio, if i go to the bsplayer preferences the audio is detected like ivi..so it is recognized but it doesn't work. maybe could be a problem of incompatibility of the creative suondblaster liveplayer 5.1 that suck with her incompatibility with ac3(but with bsplayer always worked on my system!)

3)i burned that avi file in a 800 mb cd with a final result of 881 mb..but it could be only loaded from the mastercd..and with some problems for reading..sometimes going to the loop...with dvd-rom(pioneer) is impossible to read anything and i can hear aggressive knocks to the cd ...are the 800 mb cd that suck and are still not compatible?

ErMonnezZa

1st May 2002, 18:35

i solved the 2nd problem...is Creative that sucks...now i can hear the audio too :)

MaTTeR

1st May 2002, 19:18

Originally posted by ErMonnezZa
Creative that sucks...now i can hear the audio too :)

Indeed they do:devil:

MaTTeR

2nd May 2002, 00:36

I have to say I'm very impressed guys;) I just burnt a 772MB OGM file with Vorbis and XviD. The plackback is super smooth and seeking works perfectly with PowerDivx4, BSPlayer and ZoomPlayer.

Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the success. Next test for me is going to be 816MB overburned to Imation Silver media:D

DeXT

2nd May 2002, 00:40

@ErMonnezZa:

1) well I definitely think you have some kind of filter conflict. This seeking forever is probably caused by another filter in your system trying to take over the DAT file and searching for MPEG-2 inside. Can you save the following registry key with all the subkeys and send it to me?

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Media Type]

You can also try spectra patch to see if it makes any difference. What it does is fix the MS VCD entry to point at my filter instead of the default file reader.

3) thanks for the report. I think the problem may be with the sector headers since I dont have any specs regarding the 90 min. CD format. The standard sector headers only allows up to 84 minutes or so. A fix could be possible, though: I could add an option to output a MODE2/2336 BIN image which doesn't include the sector headers so these would be generated by the burner itself.

@MaTTer: nice ;)

spyder

2nd May 2002, 00:47

I would like to try working on this filter a little to try and fix the zero padding problems. But I don't have the DirectShow SDK. Does anyone know how I could get it for cheap without having to download it(I am on regular 56k).

avih

2nd May 2002, 01:45

Originally posted by spyder
I would like to try working on this filter a little to try and fix the zero padding problems. But I don't have the DirectShow SDK. Does anyone know how I could get it for cheap without having to download it(I am on regular 56k).

the filter doesn't have a problem with the padded '0'. it's a limitation of mode 2 form 2 standard. file size must be multiple of user data block on the sector.

regarding a 'minimal sdk', well, i think it's possible to try and find a minimal set, but that would take long time to do, and it would be illegal to distrib the sdk partially.

i think it will be faster if u let your modem work on it for the night (or maybe 2 nights).

avi

Demone

2nd May 2002, 10:19

Regarding the non correction codes implemented in XCD???, if I use ogg that have crc itself could solve the problem, or u still need crc on the media ?

avih

2nd May 2002, 10:39

to make this issue once and for all clear!!!:

first, some annotations:

EDC: Error Detection Code (CRC)- this allow to recognize an error, but not to recover from it. the current tool support EDC only.

ECC: Error Correction Code - this allows recovery of (partially) damaged data, by including some 'smart' redundancies in the sector. ECC is implemented in 'standard' cd rom files. so if we have minor scratches, they are recoverable (but it won't work if you punch a whole in the cd though ). ECC is about 13% of the cd space. so 80Mins cd have about 800M space, out of which ~700M are actual data, and ~100M are ECC. the ECC is sector based, as defined in CD-ROM spec.

so why do we need ECC, on top of what is offered by the containers??:

1. because not ALL formats support inherent error correction/detection. since we aim this spec to be a general multimedia cd, multimedia 'objects' such as giff, jpg, or even a power point presentation don't have any error resilliance at all. so such formats must be 'protected' somehow. that's why we should define a protection method, and then apply different schemes of this method for different multimedia files. (i.e. gif file will be fully protected (= the whole file with ECC), while ogg file will be minimally protected (= only small part of it will have ECC))

2. even containers that have internal ECC, or can live with EDC only, and can keep the file playing even if it has errors, will not play if the player can't recognize the file type. usually the player recognizes the file type by reading the a few characters from the begining of the file. ogg i.e. searches for 'OggS' as the 1st 4 characters of the file. so if that data is lost the file may indeed be playable, the the player (or the ogg dshow filter for example) won't be able to recognize it as an ogg stream, and the file won't play.

3. storing files as mode 2 form 2 has some limitation, on top of the fact that this mode offers EDC only: the file can't have 'exact' size. we can only know how many sector it's spread on. so dext's tool pads the file with trailing '0'. but there's no way to know the actual original size of the file. so that info has to be stored somewhere.

4. since we want this format to be compatible with as many players/OSs as possible, we decided to stick to filenames in the 8.3 convention (like s/vcd), so we can't hold the original file name anyway, and we should store it somewhere.

and the conclusion is to include a special file we call a 'header' that will have the original file name, it's original size, possibly content tags (maybe ID3) and actual backups for 'sensitive' parts of the original media file. this file will be a mode 2 form 1 file, which offers ECC. so it'll be as 'protected' as normal files are stored on cd's nowdays.

and that's what this 'protection' is all about

currently dext's tool and the filter support only a single standard mode 2 form 2 file with EDC only.

we're now working on the spec to allow the 'protection'

simple?? :)

avi

Demone

2nd May 2002, 11:03

Very simple and understanding, but I dreamed of 800mb on a 700mb cd :)
The problem is da space, if ogg is a more secure container than avi do u recommend to burn an ogg in a form2 CD at this point ?

avih

2nd May 2002, 11:24

AT THIS POINT I DON'T RECOMMEND STORING ANYTHING FOR REAL ARCHIVING.

i think i've published enough info to make the issue clear. if you still don't understand then you may either take our recommendation, or read all the posts again, and make a better effort to understand.
however, since i don't own you or your clips or your CD's you may do anything you like.

JUST DON'T YOU EVER COMPLAIN THAT YOUR RARE BIRTHDAY CLIP STOPPED WORKING AFTER SOME TIME.

when we think it's safe enough to store your clips using m2f2, we'll make an announcement.

i consider that end of discussion on this issue, and i won't answer any more questions like "yes, i understand, but can i now store <abc> format since it's <xyz>?"

avi

Demone

2nd May 2002, 11:38

Sorry I didnt want to hurt u, its that when u said u can put 800mb on a cd I think everyone were super-happy, but now ur saing that u'r going to add ecc again so I thought wtf no more 800mb then.
If u think that for example in an ogg file ur going to sacrifice the 0,5% of the space for ecc then I think I can live with it :p

Sorry again for my questions

avih

2nd May 2002, 12:22

Originally posted by Demone
Sorry I didnt want to hurt u, its that when u said u can put 800mb on a cd I think everyone were super-happy, but now ur saing that u'r going to add ecc again so I thought wtf no more 800mb then.
If u think that for example in an ogg file ur going to sacrifice the 0,5% of the space for ecc then I think I can live with it :p

Sorry again for my questions

you don't have to be sorry, and you didn't hurt me, you'll find that hard to do, but u DID annoy me. if you read section 2 of the 'clarification' post (as u probably did now, as u seem to understand it) you wouldn't have to ask about it again (and you're not the 1st) and could either answer it by yourself or take the recommendation as is if u absolutely couldn't understand this.

the work done so far is considered by us as a proof of concept (or a demo). nothing more. and there's a long way between a demo and a 'product' (even if the demo seems functional at 1st glance). we published the limitations dozens of times now. this demo is not supported by us, except for testing and bug reports. that's it.

no harm done though. but next time just read carefully before you ask questions that were answered 2 posts before, and numerous times previously on the very same thread.

regards
avi

robUx4

2nd May 2002, 12:43

Originally posted by Demone
Very simple and understanding, but I dreamed of 800mb on a 700mb cd :)
The problem is da space, if ogg is a more secure container than avi do u recommend to burn an ogg in a form2 CD at this point ?

OGG has Error Detection not Error Correction. So you might lose data (but the file will still play normally with some data missing, AVI would not).

MaTTeR

3rd May 2002, 05:46

Ouch, this thread is almost ready to split:)

Just wanted to post some of the testing I've done over the past 4hrs or so:confused: I've successfully created several large Ogg file with Vorbis audio and burnt them. The playback on the Lite-On(LTR 16102B)CD-RW is perfect with the test 5 filter.

Now here's the interesting part. Apparently some CD and DVD drives are not capable of proper playback. Avih and I spoke for quite some time over IRC tonight and tried several things. I gathered up 7 various drives around the house, most of which are less than a few years old, some are much newer. Here is what w tried-

1. Use CloneCD 4.0 b30 to make an image(CCD) from the Samsung 16x DVD-ROM drive. This drive refused to play the movie directly from the CD with any software player. CloneCD however had no problems ripping it to the local hard disk at 32x. I mounted the image with Daemon Tools 3.x and played the file fine. Samsung drive has latest firmware as well thanks to Neo Neko :-)

2. I also tried several different ASPI installs on the Windows XP system with all the drives. Versions 4.60, 1.23 and 4.70 were installed to the system. As well, Avih had me try each of the DLL's in the actual software players folder(ie. PowerDivx4).

3. Tried an I/O Magic 8x DVD-ROM. Same problems, no playback at all but CloneCD could image the CD fine. Drive has been updated with latest firmware also.

4. Playback with Phillips 4801 CD-RW worked perfectly as well.

5. Playback on Acer 50x CD-ROM worked flawlessly as well.

6. Tried a Mitsumi CR-4804TE CD-RW and it would not playback the CD either. This drive is somewhat older though.

7. I'm too tired to mention the other drives that were tested. They were just generic 32x CD-ROM drives that played back the CD fine.

So here's my point...has anyone managed to playback one of these discs on a DVD-ROM drive? At least for me the pattern seems to be both of my DVD drives refuse to read the disc.

@DeXT
You mentioned on IRC tonight that you had found Samsung drives to be problematic with M2F2 disc. Where you talking about the DVD drives or just the opticals in general?

Thx in advance for the feedback.

Edit- All the latest filters and CD maker tools were used. CDRWIN 3.8e was used to burn the cue file to 80min Imation Silver CDR Media. The OGM image was around 814MB.

TheXung

3rd May 2002, 06:59

Toshiba 12x DVD rom does not reconize the disc.

Peters

3rd May 2002, 07:39

Report

Made several tests

- OS: WinXP
- Storage: 700 Mo CD-RW Memorex
- Burner: IDE Memorex 24x
- Media 800 Mo OGM
- Burning prog Nero 5.5.7.2
- DVD Drive IDE Hitachi GD-8000

Burning Speed 10x

Always playback with success, seeking fine.
I let playing the whole movie to be sure, no error

Edit: to complete information with Nero InfoTool http://www.cdspeed2000.com/files/NeroInfoTool_101.zip

Drive Information
-----------------
Drive : HITACHI DVD-ROM GD-8000
Type : DVD-ROM Drive
Firmware Version : 0005
Buffer Size : 512 KB
Date : ?
Serial Number : ?
Drive Letter : H:\
Location : 1:1
Mechanism : Tray
Read Speed (Max.) : 40 X
Write Speed (Max.) : n/a

Read CD Text : Yes
Return C2 Pointers : No
Read CD-R : Yes
Read CD-RW : Yes
Read DVD-ROM : Yes
Read DVD-RAM : Yes
Read DVD-R : Yes
Read DVD-RW : Yes
Read DVD+RW : Yes
Read Digital Audio : Yes
Read CD+G : No
Read VideoCD : Yes

Write CD-R : No
Write CD-RW : No
Write DVD-R : No
Write DVD-RW : No
Write DVD+RW : No
Write DVD-RAM : No
Buffer Underrun Protection : No
Mount Rainier : No
Modes : n/a

Region Protection Control : RPC II
Region : 1
Changes User : 1
Changes Vendor : 4

avih

3rd May 2002, 10:08

@Peters: thx. that's cool indeed.

@others:
i've heard more than one person complaining that the 800M cd doesn't work on dvd drives (or on plain cd-rom drive) (obviously peter shown that it is possible to play from, at least some, dvd drives), so i would ask to report about the following scenario if possible:

regarding BOTH standard CD-ROM drives and DVD drives:

1. does the drive play the 800M file?
2. if not, can it read cd-r from the same manufacturer and type that were burned 'normally'? (i.e. using easy cd creator or other software for making a 'standard' compilation)
3. any cd-rw experience (media) is welcome as well (we had reports it was working for some).

thanx
avi.

@dext: i've read this thread about some vcd problems, (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24239)
could it be here as well? ( i guess it could, but i'd find it strange if the drive is able to play 'standard compilation' medias and not 800M medias, while both from same manufacturer and model). any idea??

Demone

3rd May 2002, 12:18

BIG SUCCESS HERE !!!
Me and ErMonnezza succesfully made a 900mb avi on a 'ThatsWrite 90min'
with LiteOn 16x burner.

The problem is that its difficult to read, I mean it seems that the burn process was succesfull, but only the burner used and an LG-CD reader were able to playback it:

*LiteOn 16x burner(the one used to burn the disc)=need time before start and make some rumors but plays 'QUITE' well.

*Yamaha 8424e burner = CANT READ + NOISES

*PioneerDVD reader without slotin = CANT READ + NOISES

*PioneerCD reader with slotin = CANT READ + NOISES

*Samsung SC-148C = CANT READ + NOISES (more about this later)

*LG CRD-8400B = NO RUMORS PLAYS OK

Now this can all depends on media type, but I noticed that the samsung
cant read overburned cds, cause I tried 705 minutes and they didnt worked at all (different brands too), the LG, that is a brand that I personally dont give a cent to, worked ok. The good news is that apparently the filter can go up 900mb without problem.
A normally burned CD (800mb avi) worked ok on all the listed drives.

oddball

3rd May 2002, 13:21

Going a bit off topic with the oversized CD-R's. I noticed that burning 99 min Infiniti media on a LiteOn 24x close to it's full 900MB resulted in not all data being read back on the LiteOn (Even though it reported burning successfully in Nero latest) and on a Pioneer 116 DVD-ROM drive. I find that anything over 850MB is risky. So if anyone plans on using this for burning 99 min M2F2 CD-R I would STRONGLY recommend against it. Or at least only burn up to around 950MB M2F2 on 99 min.

The Pioneer physically hits the heads against it's limit when trying to read back the full 99 min capacity. The LiteOn just whirs and never reads the end data. Not tried M2F2 on 99 min yet so your mileage may vary. But since this is beyond the scope of all the legitimate ISO formats it's risky to try. I certainly would not trust any movies I want to keep to it.

int 21h

3rd May 2002, 13:36

This reminds me that I once tried imaging SVCDs with CloneCD for copying, and it failed... miserably. The cds never came out readable. However, when I imaged with CDRWin and burnt, they were fine. I would burn the cdrwin image generated by the tool, and then use that CD to test.

Originally posted by MaTTeR
Ouch, this thread is almost ready to split:)

Just wanted to post some of the testing I've done over the past 4hrs or so:confused: I've successfully created several large Ogg file with Vorbis audio and burnt them. The playback on the Lite-On(LTR 16102B)CD-RW is perfect with the test 5 filter.

Now here's the interesting part. Apparently some CD and DVD drives are not capable of proper playback. Avih and I spoke for quite some time over IRC tonight and tried several things. I gathered up 7 various drives around the house, most of which are less than a few years old, some are much newer. Here is what w tried-

1. Use CloneCD 4.0 b30 to make an image(CCD) from the Samsung 16x DVD-ROM drive. This drive refused to play the movie directly from the CD with any software player. CloneCD however had no problems ripping it to the local hard disk at 32x. I mounted the image with Daemon Tools 3.x and played the file fine. Samsung drive has latest firmware as well thanks to Neo Neko :-)

2. I also tried several different ASPI installs on the Windows XP system with all the drives. Versions 4.60, 1.23 and 4.70 were installed to the system. As well, Avih had me try each of the DLL's in the actual software players folder(ie. PowerDivx4).

3. Tried an I/O Magic 8x DVD-ROM. Same problems, no playback at all but CloneCD could image the CD fine. Drive has been updated with latest firmware also.

4. Playback with Phillips 4801 CD-RW worked perfectly as well.

5. Playback on Acer 50x CD-ROM worked flawlessly as well.

6. Tried a Mitsumi CR-4804TE CD-RW and it would not playback the CD either. This drive is somewhat older though.

7. I'm too tired to mention the other drives that were tested. They were just generic 32x CD-ROM drives that played back the CD fine.

So here's my point...has anyone managed to playback one of these discs on a DVD-ROM drive? At least for me the pattern seems to be both of my DVD drives refuse to read the disc.

@DeXT
You mentioned on IRC tonight that you had found Samsung drives to be problematic with M2F2 disc. Where you talking about the DVD drives or just the opticals in general?

Thx in advance for the feedback.

Edit- All the latest filters and CD maker tools were used. CDRWIN 3.8e was used to burn the cue file to 80min Imation Silver CDR Media. The OGM image was around 814MB.

spectra

3rd May 2002, 15:39

Originally posted by avih

@others:
i've heard more than one person complaining that the 800M cd doesn't work on dvd drives (or on plain cd-rom drive) (obviously peter shown that it is possible to play from, at least some, dvd drives), so i would ask to report about the following scenario if possible:

regarding BOTH standard CD-ROM drives and DVD drives:

1. does the drive play the 800M file?
2. if not, can it read cd-r from the same manufacturer and type that were burned 'normally'? (i.e. using easy cd creator or other software for making a 'standard' compilation)
3. any cd-rw experience (media) is welcome as well (we had reports it was working for some).

thanx
avi.

so my former sucess report was a
791 MB Dat file (782MB DivX5 avi) burned on a
Verbatim 700MB CD-RW 10x (No.43147) using a PlexWriter 40/12/40 writing with 12x speed (CDR-Win 3.8).

Reading:
PlexWriter 40/12/40 > perfect
Plextor UltraPlex32 > perfect
PioneerDVD 105slot over network > perfect

Teegedeck

6th May 2002, 10:53

You seriously want to collect test results in this thread? Here is some from my first test:

796 MB .avi-file -->
804 MB .dat file

Burned OK with Nero on a LiteOn 24102B (writing at 24x),using no-name-brand 700-MB-media.

The resulting XCD was readable on my Toshiba SD-M1212 DVD-ROM (EDIT:...and on the LiteOn-CDRW,too). The .avi (XviD + VBR MP3) plays perfectly.

BTW, thanks to all of you developers on that XCD-project.

EDIT: model- & firmware nrs.(I had a typo in the LiteOn model-nr before):
Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212, Firmware"1R14"

The Toshiba is from 2000, I believe, never did a firmware-update, the LiteOn's is about half a year old.
LiteOn LTR24102B, Firmware "5S07"

DeXT

6th May 2002, 14:15

Let me summarize all the reports we have got so far.

80 min media:

Success:

Creative 1240E DVD
Hitachi GD-8000 DVD
LG DVD (model?)
Lite-On 12101B (LS3J) CD-RW
Lite-On 16101B CD-RW
Lite-On 16102B CD-RW
Lite-On 24102B (5S07) CD-RW
Phillips 4801 CD-RW
Pioneer 105S DVD
Pioneer 116 DVD
Pioneer 305S DVD
Plextor UltraPlex32 CD-ROM
PlexWriter 40/12/40 CD-RW
RICHOH MP7163A CD-RW
Samsung CD-ROM (model?)
Toshiba SD-M1212 (1R14) DVD
Yamaha 2100S (1.0N) CD-RW
Generic 32x CD-ROM (several brands)

Failure:

Acer 50x CD-ROM
I/O Magic 8x DVD
Mitsumi CR-4804TE CD-RW
Samsung 16x DVD
Toshiba 12x DVD

90 min media:

Success:

Lite-On 12101B (LS3J) CD-RW (with difficulty)
LG CRD-8400B

Failure:

Yamaha 8424e CD-RW
Pioneer 116 DVD
Pioneer CD-ROM (model?)
Samsung SC-148C

It's pretty strange we have two antagonic reports regarding the Toshiba 12x DVD drive. I wonder if they are the same model or not. If that's the case it could be due to different factors such as the media type used or the burning speed. Oh and about the 90 min reports it seems the failures are not really related to the m2f2 reading but mostly to the media compatibility.

[Edit]

New information regarding this issue. I had an old 24x CD-ROM which was not able to read ANY kind of S/VCD under XP. But when I tested it under Win98 I had no problems at all reading the same CDs. So it seems this could be due to some kind of OS issue (probably a "bug" or a "feature" in NT/2K/XP CDFS.SYS), and not really a hardware issue.

So perhaps this Toshiba 12x antagonic report could be due to this (i.e. the same drive under different OS).