Mozilla is going to final 1.0. How do you rate this good free browser?

[MaTTeR]

@gldblade

As I recall IE6 has a feature like you describe. In Mozilla the middle button is pretty much used for the tab browsing, which I've found very useful.

If you'd like to make a suggestion then sign up and bugzilla. They have soem FAQ pages as well.

[diji1]

hey chemmajik ... regarding
I seriously hate the new macromedia flashing ad's big time, about to turn them off perminently in IE6 as soon as I find a way

i used to use an app named naviscope that enables u to control content including advertisement in ie6. this app has quite possibly the most annoying "logging" , er ... interface that sits on the desktop but with that closed its invisible except for a system tray icon. it was free when i was using it about 6 months ago or so. i imagine there must be a fair few other little apps that do the same thing, and probaly better ones at that. i am a very happy opera user now though ;) ( ... well, except for the occasional crash ) which gives a high degree of control over [ bandwith killing ] content. Haven't tried Mozilla yet ... it'll have to be better than net(crud)scape communicator tho for me to use it - which on the balance of things won't be hard i imagine.

[Doom9]

mozilla is indeed a lot better... been using it almost exclusively since the 0511 build.. that was the first time the scrolling problem was really solved for me. There's just a few things mentioned in my links above that I think should be fixed before they go 1.0..

[BlackSun]

Flash still doesn't work :( But damn you IE guys can't imagine how it is good to browse without popups ! Also now I don't matter if I receive some worm.klez in my mailbox.

Where I'm sad is that some website aren't WC3 compliants and the tables are generally screwed with them...

[Koepi]

Strange enough - flash and shockwave both work for me. The actual installer recognise mozilla1.0 and install flawlessly.

Maybe you need to install a newer build from:

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest-1.0.0/

Regards,
Koepi

P.S.: did I mention that I use mozilla since the early 0.9.x state? ;) In the meantime there is no need to use any other browser, except for windows update of course ;)

[Doom9]

koepi: what do you say to the issues in bugzilla I linked too? they are important reasons for me to still use IE from time to time.. and in fact they prevent me from openly suggesting the browser to anyone using IE.. cos they will not like how mozilla handles (or rather: doesn't handle) these kind of things..

as for popups.. I had to re-activate that feature.. it would also block the pm window to come up on messageboards like these so I would have to go to the user cp manually to read new pms.. and that's annoying, too.

blacksun: I installed mozilla on 2 boxes, and added the java runtime environment and flash plugin (keep in mind that the page that comes up tells you to install showckwave instead.. that plugin is pretty much useless..)... and it works flawlessly.. even got the adobe pdf reader integrated without re-installing it.

[diji1]

Yes - one positive thing one can say about IE is that it always works ( ... i just know someones gonna say otherwise :) ) ...

[BlackSun]

The flash installation doesn't detect mozilla, that's the problem. Well I'm gonna follow Koepi's link...

I can't use IE anymore because if two IE windows are opened, my computer freeze (don't ask me why). It's ok to open only one window but I am afraid of popups :)

[[Toff]]

Have you check what they say here :
http://plugindoc.mozdev.org/windows.html
(Mozilla Plugin Support on Microsoft Windows)


1. Download Flash 6.0 Player.
2. Install. Installer builds will be detected by the Flash installer.
3. If you're using a Zipped build, you can manually select your plugins folder.


Perhaps you are using a zip installation of Mozilla so you must manually select the plugins dir.

PS: Have you look at this cool demo page,
http://www.mozilla.org.uk/temp/start/1.0/demos/eagle-sun.html

[Doom9]

@toff: that demo page only works properly if you move the mouse at grandma speed. but it is something IE can't do. Though I much rather prefer to have my linewrapping and mozmail fixes.. the mozilla team isn't going to like my browser recommendation if the 1.0 is no different from the current dailies.

[MaTTeR]

Doom,

I moved that bird around and it was totally seamless (no lag) and not at grandma speeds. lol

That was a pretty impressive page:)

[Doom9]

well.. how fast did you move the bird? I was refering to that speed actually.. I do about everything except breathing and running twice as fast as the average human being (how else would I manage to study and run my site at the same time?;) so my mouse pointer usually moves over the screen at a speed that the average guy looking over my shoulder has a hard time spotting it..

[MaTTeR]

Now I see what you mean. I tried flying the bird as fast as possible into the right side of the screen, it didn't like that much and just stayed put:)

It doesn't allow me to fly it into the sun either. Wonder why:D

[[Toff]]

Have you tried to move the sun ?
It show the effect better.
Yes IE don't like it, but it's not a problem for me ;-)
Mozilla 1.0 release party is very close (12th of June), and of course the 1.0 release must be out before.

[smokeslikeapoet]

I downloaded and installed and early build of mozilla and thought it was the biggest piece of crap I've ever put on my system. I decided to try again with RC3 and I absolutey love it, I've migrated over and you can now find me on efnet #doom9, I sure would like intellimouse support, but i'm sure that's a microsoft issue, (i.e. intellimouse should support all win32 software, not vice versa). It's a funny thing that Mozilla only crashes if I try to set it to be the default WinXP browser, something else I think Microsoft is to blame for. The best thing about Mozilla is NO MORE POPUPS!

[avih]

i use it as windows default browser (still using rc2), and use the m$ optical mouse (defult driver, no special download or install), and everything's working great, including scrolling, middle mouse button, etc.

[smokeslikeapoet]

I'm using the intellimouse optical explorer with the extra back and forward buttons, I haven't intstalled the extra intellimouse drivers, using the windows xp default drivers, i'll upgrade the drivers and see what happens. i can always edit the folder options in explorer, to open htm, html, and other web files with mozilla, but when i try to set it to default it crashes, very weird, i'm about due for an xp reinstall, and i'm going to dual boot with win2000 server (working on certification) I'll see what happens then.

[Doom9]

@smokes: can you test something? set the program pirorities of your ripping progs to idle (gknot does it by default, dvd2svcd has an option, vdub has it, etc).. start ripping, and when the cpu is maxed out try to bring a mozilla window to the foreground.. both me and matter have a bit of a problem there.. swapping starts like crazy.. the whole thing goes really slowly (IE is fine).. but before I bother with buzilla again (ppl there don't like me because I'm a windows user and my rfes basically say make mozilla more like IE cos IE is more usefriendly) I want to have as much confirmation as I can possibly get.

[avih]

@doom9
doesn't happen here. i just ran mozilla (no quick launch) while vdub doing a copy (cut) in idle mode. working ok.

[Doom9]

avih: copy isn't enough. that just uses I/O.. max out the cpu (encode a movie)

[diji1]

doom9 : ppl there don't like me because I'm a windows user

sheesh. i've always found the idea of judging someone on the OS/browser they use to be ... well, pathetic. i have linux but i use windows the majority of the time. jeez, i must be some really dumb luser then i guess. pathetic.

[smokeslikeapoet]

Yeah I've had no problems with V-dub or any other tool and I always set the priority on my encodes to idle (life can't stand still for divx) but I have seen Windows XP go crazy like that, it was about the same time I was upgrading a bunch of hardware, so I just reinstalled.

[MaTTeR]

Well I have to say the more I've used XP the more it does look like it's XP related. It's interesting that when this so called swapping occurs, Mozilla is basically froze for 20-30secs trying to redraw itself. However, if I launch IE6 the response its much faster.

I'm not so sure this is just Mozilla related now. I had this same problem last week when I was running HeadAC3he with high priority during some tests. When I tied to lauch Mozilla it just took forever to open. Keep in mind I'm running dual XP1600+ CPUs with 512MB of very agressively tweaked RAM. So this shouldnt be happening at all. I orignally thought XP was much more effecient on SMP systems than Win2k but I'm seriously reconsidering due to a few more issues I've noticed.

[Doom9]

just installed the latest daily and guess what.. you can now decide what happens when you start a download.. finally you can get rid of the download manager via the GUI :)

keep on voting for : http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99457 (linewrapping)
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126341 (multiple email accounts in mozilla mail)
and http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75364 (download manager enhancements).

[chemmajik]

Is there a latest daily that comes with a installer? I didnt want all the stuff that comes with the nightly builds, just the browser? Found another reason why I need modzilla, asian programmer & hardware pages only display properly with it, they wont even display with ie6, kinda funny.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by chemmajik
Is there a latest daily that comes with a installer? I didnt want all the stuff that comes with the nightly builds, just the browser? Found another reason why I need modzilla, asian programmer & hardware pages only display properly with it, they wont even display with ie6, kinda funny.

They don't displayy at all. Or just not right? Personally I can get asian languages to show in IE6, MSWord, and Star/Open Office. Just a matter of having the right language packs installed.

[chemmajik]

Hmm they weren't displaying properly in IE6 I guess the multiple boots fixed it from the language pack I added with modzilla. Oh well.
:)

[MigliO]

It's out!
NOW!!!!

ready to try it??

[binky the stunt cat]

yes, if i could only find it on their webpage.....

[Doom9]

I'm running it.. way better than RC3 but it's an old build. At least it doesn't have the using a lot of resources when being shut down problem.. but it also doesn't have the option to kill the stupid download manager.. and we still have to force the developers in making thins more userfriendly..

[mrbass]

well I'm going to roll it out at my corporation on all the new installs and replace any old Netscape 4.x installs. Only thing missing is the spell checker and I guess for those I'll be force to install Netscape 6.x. Outlook Express doesn't have a spell checker either it just uses MS Office which most of our users have but I'm getting all of tech services, sales, another division on openoffice.

I've been using IE for last year or so since I stopped using linux as my primary desktop OS (still rulez for servers though). I really can't name anything that is better than IE6 compared to mozilla 1.0. No more nasty index.dat file crap to deal with.

[avih]

http://www.mozdev.org/redirect/spellchecker/

[mrbass]

yes I'm aware of the spellchecker and also the reasons why it wasn't included in 1.0. (I just installed it [w32spellchecker20020523.xpi] and it crashes Mozilla 1.0 like crazy). To me it's no big deal but a few at work are clueless beings who need help with their abc's.

[mrbass]

as far as it being sluggish while ripping a dvd it was. I set it from normal priority to HIGH priority and it was just as fast as iexplorer. Checking ieexplorer.exe it was also set to normal but I'm willing to bet Microsoft ignores (or overrides) that for their own valuable programs. I guess those line wrapping is a valid point like on http://www.cdrinfo.com/

[Doom9]

argh.. just installed mozilla 1.0 on a fresh redhat7.3 and the fonts on my site and the forum look horrible.. konqueror looks fine though.. anybody using mozilla on linux who could instruct me on selecthing the proper fonts so my page no longer looks like shit?

[mrbass]

haven't loaded 7.3 yet so I can help specifically but download that true type font rpm from
http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/redhat/7.3/i386/index.html
choose by name and letter T
then look for ttfonts-1.0-9 Some TrueType fonts
check if you already got it installed
rpm -qil ttfonts or is it -qal I forgot.

search on here
http://www.mail-archive.com/redhat-list%40redhat.com/

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fonts/unix/enabling_truetype.html

[Doom9]

as I suspected.. the fonts have already been installed by default (would also be curious that konqueror can display the page properly and has the regular true type fonts listed in the fonts property if they were not installed).. however mozilla clearly fucks up somewhere (or the linux geek would say I do and I would say that the end user is always right and that the developer has to adjust).

[Koepi]

Originally posted by Doom9
(or the linux geek would say I do and I would say that the end user is always right and that the developer has to adjust).

Slow down! This can only be valid for commercial (successful) software, don't mix it up :)

SCNR,
Koepi

[Doom9]

SCNR? Screener? That would be SCR ;)

well.. many open source programs could be a lot more successfull if they took usability concerns into account.. 2% less geeks and 10% more regular users I'd chose the latter any day ;) if virtualdub were a cli tool nobody would use it.. I still vividly recall people continuing to use DeCSS instead of using vobsub just because the latter was a cli tool.. and it was driving me crazy when people kept bitching about green decss output (of course not mentioning that they had used decss but it was kinda obvious).. that prompted me to get involved in GUI development (as tester and advisor)... how many people would be using SBC if it weren't for GKnot? You can still have powerful tools in the background and hide them from he user and make things pretty easy for him. The next gen GKnot will be a good example of this..

in any case.. I dumped redhat.. it didn't even recognize my soundcard. Now trying Suse 8. And btw.. I'm sure you remember that CT editorial on open software... they were right to the point. A hundred CLI parameters might win over a few geeks, a well designed GUI will win over a much larger amount of regular users. The main strength of Windows and Mac OS is simplicity and consistency.. and there every Linux distro still has a long way to go to catch up. Oggmux isn't a cli tool either ;) And if it weren't for oggmux a lot less people would be doing ogm these days... graph creation, despite almost being drag&drop is still too much to ask for a lot of people.

okay.. I'm off to install Suse8 now... trying to dig thru thousands of packages and eliminate the stuff that is not needed for regular desktop usage. Hope I can make the next post on Linux Mozilla (now I'm using the first mozilla 1.1 beta for windows) and that my site will look as it's supposed to.

[c0p0n]

I installed RC2 about two weeks or so on my MDK 8.2 system... great browser, great mail and news reader, good layout (with the modern theme) and the pages viewed PERFECTLY.
the problem is... too slow. I am not using the damn slow KDE neither Gnome, but IceWM. It is not a memory lackness, cos I have 640 MB. I have an enough good processor (duron 800), reasonable fast hd (hdparm says to me 20 MB/sc of buffered reads) and no swapping at all (the swap usage always is under 2 mb).
even on RC2 I had no other issue than speed... well, there're another things like no clipboard compatibility between several window managers that can be a bit annoying, or a very low java and flash perfomance (the same plugins on opera and konqueror are much faster).
but this caused to me to use Opera 6.01 as default browser and sylpheed as email and news reader. that's a pity, since it's by far the best linux browser. I am right to download the final release now, let's see If there's some speed improvement.

[c0p0n]

Originally posted by Doom9

in any case.. I dumped redhat.. it didn't even recognize my soundcard.

what soundcard do U have? maybe soundcfg or sndconfig can be of a bit of help on that, if it's not a rare one (sb cards should like work like a charm)

[Doom9]

yippie.. I'm running suse8 personal now.. it's always a chore to go thru the package list.. but now I'm up and running.. the soundcard has been recognized (alsa rules) and works, netscape6 renders my site properly, and mozilla that I've just installed also works properly. I also found kvirc which is almost mirc compatible so I can get used to it. Installing Oo now and I'll feel almost at home. Though there is always the matter of finding something equivalent to flashfxp and dreamweaver.
my logi pilot wheel also works properly (wheel didn't work in redhat). so that round definitely goes to suse. Though I don't think I found xmms anywhere which is a negative point in my book.. I wonder if dvd playback will work in xine...

@anyone using suse: could me being behind a nat be the reason why I can't do an online update? can't get the packages :( and I'd like to updated to the latest kde and get the open gl enabled nvidia drivers and play some q3a ;)

[c0p0n]

@Doom9
I wonder if dvd playback will work in xine...

You should stick better to mplayer. It uses parts from the ffmpeg project, which enables it to reproduce mpeg2, mpeg1, mpeg4, H.263 and msmpeg4 based streams with a native linux decoder, which at least the latest version of xine I installed (0.9.9) didn't have... and of course support for win32 codecs (in the rare case U want to use codecs like Indeo or Cinepak, which is already covered by the decoders mplayer have) much greater speeds, better overlays support, enhaced gui, encoder included, postprocessing enabled... you can even use it to make use of the tv tuner (well, I think that xawtv makes a better job on that, but the capture perfomance is by far superior).

[Doom9]

do you know how to start konqueror with a view profile (window - profile).. I created a shortcut to start conqueror pointing to my root.. but it starts with the default view (big icons, no tree view) and I can't stand that.. I managed to get the default view for the link to my DVD-ROM but I somehow can't do that for the new shortcuts I create.

[c0p0n]

it's easy. just configure konqueror as you want and then go to "window>Config view profiles" (note that I have spanish k, so the translation is approximate). give a name to the profile and then save. you only have to invoke that profile on the shortcut, trhu:

kfmclient openProfile yourprofile


btw, you can give a try to XWinCommander (xwc), similar to windows explorer with some nice features (file associations, decompression and detar faster than konqueror...).

[Doom9]

thanks for the tip.. works like a charm. finally, after like 4h the update is finished.. I've never seen a slower systemupdate :/ and of course the most interesting things (3d accelerated nvidia drivers) couldn't be downloaded so I had to do this manually (and at first it didn't work but after trying every rpm param I got it working).

2 other problems now: 1) kde always resets to the default desktop.. my desktop shortcuts remain, but the whole taskbar config, the background and screensaver get reset to default every time I restart.

2) I cannot enable udma mode.. if I do the drive simply starts spinning with no end and never stops.. and the disc cannot be accessed. W/o DMA mode watching DVDs in Xine (which btw works) is impossible since it's so choppy (and I haven't found out where to enable the deinterlacing mode yet)... and copying files from the disc takes forever and completely blocks the system.

mplayer isn't in the default suse config, let's hope there's a precompiled binary because I opted not to install the gazillion of compilation tools you normally install.. I'm trying to run a desktop here, not a development box.

tomorrow I'll try some more fun stuff: USB printer and scanner.. that will be interesting. In XP that's plug & play.. I'll be expecting the same here :sly:

[c0p0n]

1) make sure that when you end a KDE session you say to it that it has to save the actual session - you can do this manually by "K" button on taskbar. also, check that .kde folder on your home directory (and all subsequents files and subdirectories) are accesable from your account (privileges). do not forget to click the "apply" or "ok" button on every change you do on the KDE control center.
2) it is somewhat strange, since DMA is active by default on removable drives. maybe there's a colision with no dma enabled on your hdisk, try the following
open a console session, with root privileges (make "su" if necessary) and perform this command on the disk that contains linux (say hda):

hdparm /dev/hda

this will show U the options for that particular drive. check wether dma is enabled or not.

if it's not enabled, try to enable it manually and perform a speed test before and after the dma enabling on your linux partition (say hda2):

For speed test: hdparm /dev/hda2
DMA enabling: hdparm -d1 /dev/hda

how did U activate DMA on DVD? that's important

3) mplayer binaries for rh7.2 (it should work on other platforms) can be found here:
http://mirrors.sctpc.com/dominik/linux/pkgs/mplayer/
but think seriously on compiling your own stuff... there are many advantages, like much more stability (since you compile to the libraries you have) and speed. the webpage to mplayer is www.mplayerhq.hu.

hum, I think that you will try to use your CDR recorder... if it does not run now you will have to recompile the kernel with scsi support only for cd drives and scsi emulation... that could either help U with any dma troubles.
usb can be a little tricky. try to use usbview with the devices connected and on power on mode, to see that your controller is working (it should). I had to sweat blood to make my SmartUSB56 modem to work on linux... until I contacted with the programmer at smartlink.

ps: I highly recommend U to recompile your kernel. your system will be much more stable and quicker, and among other things it will boot up much faster since it does not have to make elections between zillions of precompiled drivers.

[chemmajik]

Mozilla must have been busy last night, I didnt finally get my stub installer to finally work until early in the morning. Kept erroring on 2 files, must have gotten xpcom 5 times & finally gave up on getting talkback.

[Swede]

You forgot the -t for the speedtest. :)
hdparm -t /dev/hda

[c0p0n]

yea, in fact this shows much more info:

hdparm -Tt /dev/hda2