comment in 1.0.8 build 1 release notes

[equilibrium]

Quote from release notes "Enhancement: It is now possible to encode using the 16:9 tag in the video encoder"

I know there has been countless discussion on ratio's here. The general impression with backing up wide screen 16:9 movies to watch on wide screen tv's is that you should choose 4:3 as the sources ratio. I have not been able to understand this really because the ratio is picked up from the .ifo file and I would have assumed that if the movie was wide screen and you wanted your svcd to be wide screen you would pick the 16:9 ratio and end up with an svcd that looked like the original but you don't.

..Basically I am wondering if the comment at the top means that you can now do that or if it was refering to something else..

Thanks

Equilibrium

PS. Yet another great offering of PIE and I still love it whatever the flavour and I swear I tried to find answer to this first :)

Doh, :stupid: then I spot a thread but now I'm more confused.. dvd2svcd said : "ConCor: I wonder why you at all want to resize to full screen. It is clearly stated in the SVCD specs that the resolution is 480*y and not 720*y. It will be no wonder if your player can't play it properly."

Then why does the new build have an option to do this and why when I picked 16:9 in previuos releases did my player play it fine but the film was long and thin until the TV popped it right out chopping the sides?

Oh, shot me I'm dumb and lost. Can someone just clarify with the latest build what is the best ratio to pick to watch an svcd on a wide screen tv when the original dvd is 16:9 thanks

[da franksta]

in 107b4, an 16:9 movie encoded as 4:3 would end up as an anamorphic movie, great for watching at widescreen tv's. However, on a "normal" tv you'd get long faces.
in 108b1 with the 16:9 tab, your dvd-player knows it a 16:9 movie and (when setup for normal tv) will append black bars. This way, even on normal tv's the aspect ratio will be correct. If you have a widescreen tv you will not see any difference.

I hope this makes sense.

[equilibrium]

Thx for trying to help I was editing my post while you were posting a reply, so due to what I added at the bottom I could still do with some clarification.

In 108b1 would I still choose 4:3 for a 16:9 film being watched on a wide screen tv.

Sorry, I'm being really obtuce on this but I've got lost lol.

[da franksta]

if you don't want black bars to be added (which you don't need for widescreen), choose "no borders".
for 4:3 material (tv series etc.) choose 4:3
for 16:9 material (movies etc.) choose anamorphic

if you have a normal tv, you'll want black bars. dvd2svcd can add these: choose 16:9
also, your dvd-player could add these (if it knew the source is 16:9): choose anamorphic

anamorphic is principally the same as 4:3, but with the "16:9-tag"

have I lost you still? :D

[equilibrium]

Thx so much, that is one thing that I have wondered about for ages but felt too dumb to ask until I was desperate enough :p

I get it now, as I haven't got home and installed 108b1 yet I hadn't seen these extra options, but regardless this is still very helpfull.

All the mates I know who used the software had doubts over all this, they just knew it looked better if you choose 4:3 in the past but didn't know why.

I am forever in your debt. He says backing out of the room bowing :D

Equilibrium

[da franksta]

lol :p

[Franklin2K]

Hi,

I'm a little confused, too.

Please correct me, if I'm wrong:

- 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3): This means, the material is encoded like "4:3" in D2S 1.0.7b4 - result are egg heads in case of anamorphic dvds without 16:9 flag (for widescreen tvs or normal tvs with 16:9 switch)

- 16:9 (Borders added, encoded as 4:3): This means, borders are added to the material, result is a letterboxed movie (for normal tvs without 16:9 switch)

- Anamorphic (No borders, encoded as 16:9): This is the same as the first one, except for the 16:9flag, which will be set here.

Is this correct?

Thanks a lot

Franklin2K

[da franksta]

yes, it is

[markrb]

Big caveat here though. Your DVD player must be able to support anamorphic SVCD's. I did a test encode and both my Pioneer 343 and and my Apex 5131 cannot play them correctly. So my only choice is to continue encoding with the black bars. Yes I did try changing the settings in my DVD players.

Mark

[da franksta]

Hi Mark, good of you to join in.
So much for theory, I guess. Everybody will probably just have to try if it works on their dvd-player. Perhaps another characteristic to include in the vcdhelp dvd-player-list? ;)

[Franklin2K]

@Mark: I Just did a test encode of myself, too. I have a Pioneer 444 and used the anamorphic mode, but it didn't work on my stand alone player. Both in full screen and wide screen mide I had egg heads, only in letterbox mode the black bars were ok (like on the dvd). It seems, that the 16:9 flag doesn't work on my player.

But: The flag does work on my PC. The test encode had the correct borders (no egg heads), an older encode with D2S 1.0.7b4 of the same chapter had the egg head effect. So on my opinion it depends on the stand alone player.

Greetz, Franklin2K

[equilibrium]

Can I just clarify once more then?

If your standalone player doesn't support anamorphic then in this build when you have a 16:9 dvd and a wide screen television you continue to select 4:3 as the aspect ratio?

[equilibrium]

If you are turning a letterboxed 16:9 dvd into an anamophic 16:9 svcd would that effectively involve resizing and therefore consideration should be given to choosing a resizing method that will maintain the quality?

Thx again.

Equlibrium

[da franksta]

@equilibrium
if you have a widescreen tv, it doesn't matter wether you choose 4:3 or anamorphic, the result will effectively be the same. ONLY if you have a classic tv do you need black bars, which can be encoded (choose 16:9 aspect ratio) or could (theoretically) be added by the dvd-player IF it recognizes the 16:9-tag.

I don't know how to explain it more clearly to you. :(

[equilibrium]

Thank you for your continued patience. The point is that Mark said that some players don't support anamorphic, therefore I was just checking whether if this was the case it was better to stick to choosing 4:3 as this would put the 16:9 tag on but not the borders and not resizing lettbox 16:9's to anamorphic just encoding them as they come.

Cheers

[stelch]

I think the best thing to do is to try all 3 settings with the same movie and see how it plays on your TV.

[SVCDlabels]

I ripped Disney's El Dorado yesterday. I set the aspect ratio to 16:9 anamorphic and used CCE CBR. The encode is PERFECT!

I ripped The Lost Boys last night, 16:9 anamorphic, CCE 5-pass vbr
and it's trashed. The video shakes violently from side to side and I'm experiencing color shifts. At first I thought Nero screwed up the burn so I tried Fireburner and it refused to even try, informing me that track 2 was illegal. Next came Blindwrite and while everything checked out fine the resulting disc was doing the same dance.

I went straight to the mpegs and dragged them into Nero's SVCD template and same thing. Here's my info on "The Lost Boys".

Key found: F169122997
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 8:40:09 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.8 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 8:40:13 PM
- Free on drive G: 23053.88 mb
- Internal rip
--------------------------------------------------------
Preparing vobfiles to be ripped:
- J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob

Ripping: J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
Ripping: J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
Ripping: J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
Ripping: J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
Ripping: J:\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
Ripping finished. Speed: 1799

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 9:19:53 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[G:\cd images\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[G:\cd images\VTS_01_1.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_2.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_3.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_4.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_5.vob]
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 9:53:24 PM
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.0.8 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 9:53:28 PM
- Free on drive G: 18875.05 mb
- Crash Recovery
- Restarting from: From the start
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 9:53:29 PM
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[G:\cd images\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[G:\cd images\VTS_01_1.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_2.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_3.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_4.vob,G:\cd images\VTS_01_5.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film activated!
Framerate: 23976
DVD2AVI processing done.

Saving Subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 9:56:17 PM
- Free on drive G: 18874.73 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: G:\cd images\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: -87 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 10:00:09 PM
- Free on drive G: 18607.26 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: G:\cd images\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "G:\cd images\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output "G:\CDIMAG~1\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "G:\CDIMAG~1\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -g max ) -ota( -d -87 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of G:\cd images\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/12/2002 10:11:23 PM
- Free on drive G: 18473.52 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1646953728
AudioSectors: 142293872
VideoPAPO: 23307984
ScanOffsetBytes: 168104
SeqAligningBytes: 10683969
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 1.00
PureMPEGStream: 1470499791.07
Seconds: 5849.80
CalcMPEGStream: 1470499791.07
Frames: 140087
CDSize: 790.00
Cut point 785.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 140087
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 5
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: Multipass VBR
Min. bitrate: 300
Max. bitrate: 2530
Avg. Bitrate: 2011
Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 1.620
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:12:52 AM
- Free on drive G: 17038.84 mb
- Video Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing Pulldown. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\pulldown\pulldown.exe" "G:\cd images\Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv" "G:\cd images\Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv"
Video pulldown finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:17:23 AM
- Free on drive G: 15638.39 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:17:25 AM
- Free on drive G: 15638.39 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:17:28 AM
- Free on drive G: 15638.39 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 2
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 785 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Length of G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2950 Seconds
Offset in Seconds: 2952
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 2 seconds
Cut point: 785 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:29:04 AM
- Free on drive G: 14068.79 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
2952.216 seconds G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing: G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
2890.632 seconds G:\cd images\bbMPEG_Muxed_File01.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:30:15 AM
- Free on drive G: 14068.78 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 16

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="G:\cd images\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue" --bin-file="G:\cd images\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "G:\cd images\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:33:15 AM
- Free on drive G: 13273.33 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 16

CD image #2: CD_Image_File_CD2.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --cue-file="G:\cd images\CD_Image_File_CD2.cue" --bin-file="G:\cd images\CD_Image_File_CD2.bin" "G:\cd images\VCDXBuild_Script_2.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 4/13/2002 4:36:12 AM
- Free on drive G: 12477.56 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\SIMPLE~1\SIMPLE~1.DLL")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("G:\CDIMAG~1\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
SimpleResize(480,480)
ResampleAudio(44100)



WinXP Professional
AMD XP 1800
256 Meg DDR
DVD2SVCD Ver. 1.0.8 build 1


The only differences between the two DVDs are as follows:
El Dorado is an Anamorphic Widescreen 1.85:1
The Lost Boys is "Widescreen".
Both of these are Region 1

Is it possible that if the DVD isn't an anamorphic DVD than the anamorphic option in DVD2SVCD won't work?

SVCDlabels
www.groups.yahoo.com/group/labels4svcd

[da franksta]

if your other movie was perfect, i don't see what your problem has to do with the aspect ratio.
either start a new thread or try to stick to the topic. this keeps the forum nice and tidy ;)

[Hodonin]

I am just ready to throw away my PC out of the window.When I used dvd2svcd 1.0.7.B4 everything worked just fine.With 1.0.8.B.1 aspect ratio 16:9 the picture is shaking sideways. The same movie with the older version was just fine. Is there some bug in 1.0.8.?When I change settings to 4:3, it is not shaking anymore, but long faces are there.Am I idiot or software problem?

[markrb]

This new tag is proving to be more trouble then it's worth. I have already seen a post by DVD2SVCD saying he wished he never added it.

So here are the new official stances on the settings.

If you use the setting anamorphic(encode as 16:9) your DVD player must support this tag for SVCD's. Signs your DVD player does not support them include having the video stretched into 4:3 mode or having violent shaking in the video even on a 16:9 TV. If this happens you should not use this setting. It seems that more players do not support the tag then do. Even the old standby Apex units do not appear to support this tag.

If this happens and you have a widescreen TV you should continue to use 4:3(do not add borders) for you encodes that are to be dedicated.

If you use a more standard 4:3 TV use (16:9 borders added encode as 4:3)

In most cases these will give you the correct aspect ratio for your situation. If you intend to view these only on your computer then it really doesn't matter what you choose.

[Hodonin]

Thanks for the help. I still don't understand the difference between 1.0.7. and 1.0.8. Since there was no problem for me with the older one, should I use it instead 1.0.8.B1 ?
What is the difference in picture quality, if I use 4:3 instead 16:9 settings?
Thanks again.

[Nick]

Right. I'll have a go at explaining this.

It all depends on what sort of TV you are going to be watching on.

Let us first take the example of a 4:3 TV with an anamorphic 16:9 DVD.

The DVD picture is 720 pixels wide and 576 deep (PAL). Something on the DVD tells your player it is in 16:9 format and when you set up your DVD player you will have told it in the setup menu that you have a 4:3 TV. Hence what your DVD player does is create a 4:3 output to send to the TV by squashing the image into the middle 432 lines and adds 72 lines of black top and bottom. These lines are not on the disc, they are added by your DVD player to create an output suitable for a 4:3 TV.

However, if you set up your DVD player telling it you have a widescreen TV it outputs the picture 16:9 exactly as it is on the disc.

Now let's move onto the conversion.

When we convert DVD to SVCD we have three options with the new build (Ignore the "Resize to " option in the Frameserver tab, we're talking conversion tab here).

Option 1: 16:9, borders added, encode as 4:3. This is exactly like the 16:9 tab in previous builds. What this does is make a disc which gives a 4:3 output by squashing the picture into the middle third and actually putting black bars on the disc, so the actual movie is contained in the middle 432 lines of the 576 available, the rest is black. When played on a 4:3 TV the result looks the same as when your DVD player added the bars when you played the original DVD. However, on a 16:9 widescreen TV the picture has to be stretched both horizontally and vertically to fill the screen. Pretty much every widescreen TV has picture zoom modes to do this but lots of stretching = poor picture quality.

Option 2: 4:3, no borders added, encode as 4:3. This is exactly like 4:3 in previous builds. This encodes a 4:3 disc with the full 576 line vertical resolution. Because the output from this disc in 4:3 the DVD player does not know to add black lines top and bottom to output to your 4:3 TV so the egghead effect ensues. Some TV's have picture modes to add black bars but the vast majority don't. However, played on a widescreen TV, you only have to stretch horizontally to fill the screen as it is already at full vertical resolution. Less stretching = better picture quality so if you will be watching on a widescreen TV this option is a winner.

Option 3: Anamorphic, no borders added, encoded as 16:9. This is the new option on 1.0.8b1. What this does is encode at full vertical resolution but put a marker on the disc just like the original DVD to tell your player that it is 16:9. Therefore if you set up your DVD player saying you have a widescreen TV, the DVD player outputs at full vertical resolution but if you set it for a 4:3 TV the player does the squashing up and adding of black bars. So you get the best of both worlds - perfect playback on either TV type.

The only problem is that it appears most standalone DVD players are incompatible with this new option and picture distortion results. Either which way, there is no need to resort to uninstalling this build and reinstalling an earlier version. If the 16:9 anamorphic option doesn't work for you simply don't use it! The other two options are exactly as per previous builds.

I have tried to keep the imagery and terminology as simple as I can in this post. I can't think of a better way of putting any of this, so I hope peole find this helpful. Then maybe once and for all we can put the aspect ratios topic to bed!

PS for the pedantic among you, any minor factual inaccuracies are as a result of trying to keep this (lengthy) post as simple to wade through as possible!

[markrb]

Great Post. You said it way better then I could.


Mark

[Hodonin]

Thank you for the answer!

[ScooterMyth]

Great explanation. Now it needs a place in the FAQ or a separate FAQ Sticky, if it hasn't already been done. :)

Scooter

I put one up. Thanks Nick.