After two months of testing I have decided the settings I will use

[markrb]

I have done close to 100 encodes with all kinds of different settings and finally decided what I will use for awhile on my videos.
These settings require you to edit the Avs file and is not for newbies. If you are new to DVD2SVCD get used to it first before changing anything.
Most of my settings will remain at default.
Audio will remain at 224 or 192 as space allows.
Changes to the default video settings are as follows.
CCE noise: 12 maybe 15 haven't finalized that yet(default=2)
Image Quality Priority:24 for low action, 17 for high action (default=17)
Adding Avisynth filter Sharpen to the Avs file after mpeg, but before resize with a .4 setting. So my AVS file reads as follows:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("F:\after\Source\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
sharpen(.4)
BicubicResize(480,360,0.00,0.60)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

One big problem is that Sharpen is not completely stable. Sometimes it works perfect and at other times it will crash out and your CCE speed will be very high. This is an indication it's not working correctly and you should cancel the encode. I found that adding a few Remarks (#) lines can sometimes make it work. Like this:

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("F:\after\Source\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
####
##
sharpen(.4)
###
##
BicubicResize(480,360,0.00,0.60)
AddBorders(0,60,0,60)

Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. Try it and realize that some people have reported that they can't get it to work at all.

I decided that although TS can improve image quality the extra time it takes the encode is not worth it and it causes all kinds of extra problems with Sharpen. The largest increase in video quality is achieved with Sharpen and increasing the CCE noise reduction.

The image comes out so much more like the original DVD it's amazing. I have not tested it on a fast action movie and this may cause some problems, but for slow moving dark movies I think this is great.

Oh yeah one last thing. Sharpen does slow your encode down about 30% - 40%.

Do a chapter of a DVD normally, then do it using this method and then compare the two against each other.

Mark

[Pko]

Originally posted by markrb
CCE noise: 12 maybe 15 haven't finalized that yet(default=2)
Image Quality Priority:24 for low action, 17 for high action (default=17)
Adding Avisynth filter Sharpen to the Avs file after mpeg, but before resize with a .4 setting.

So you are sharpening your source and then smoothing it??? (I think the noise filter in CCE smooths, doesn't it?) that gives better results than just smoothing a little less or no smoothing/sharpening at all?

In my tests, with a good source, usually the results get poorer when adding filters (other than decomb et al, of course); since the DVD has already been tweaked by the publisher, any further manipulation in image quality messes up more than enhance... But I did not tried something like sharpen/unsharpen or anything like that :-)

[chainsaw135]

Mark i'm trying those settings you have posted right now, if its half as good as you say then its worth the time to try:) The movie I chose is "Joy Ride" I've already done the movie with the default settings I always use so i'll post back with the results as well.

[chainsaw135]

Well after 5 different attempts with the ### and without it either crashed or messed up going 2 fast. So i guess i'll play around with it and hopefully i'll be able 2 get it working but as of now it wont run:(

[markrb]

Yeah same with me now. I guess it only works if you use CBR as that works perfect for me, but VBR blows up. This is an awesome filter I just wished it was stable.

Mark

[BRN]

I seem to have the fewest stability problems when I move the Sharpen filter to the last line in the script. Not 100% but better than running it before the Resize.

[chainsaw135]

So far i can get it to work with cbr, i've been playing around with placement also and still fails with vbr:( If we could some how get this 2 work more often that would be sweet since it is a great tool, but i'm about ready to give it up myself i've done tests all night and even installed Windows ME/XP dual boot 2 do tests and i'm tired
hehe if someone comes up with other tests for this i'll be more then happy to do that.

[markrb]

I feel embarrassed. I never thought if it worked CBR it wouldn't work in VBR, but oh well. I have tried even running it in CCE 2.62 with VFAPI and it still won't work with VBR.
I have decided that I will use CBR to encode most of my movies from now on. The difference to my eye with sharpen is just too great to ignore. I usually keep the AVG bitrate very high anyway so that most encodes are not that far off CBR anyway. Also there is a great myth out there that CBR is inferior in quality to VBR and this is just not the case as long as you can get the bitrate high enough and still have it fit on the number of CD's you want.
I really hope that Avisynth improves to stabalize the sharpen filter.
Until this happens I must admit that this filter is just too immature to suggest for use with DVD2SVCD.
Another promising front is that Donald Graft said he is starting to port his Vdub filters to native Avisynth form. He has some nice filters there just begging to be tried natively.

Mark

[dividee]

When I have the time, I'll have a look at the code of the Sharpen filter in avisynth, but I somehow doubt I'll see anything wrong with it...
Regularly, they are people reporting avisynth crashes. And I have to say, most of he time, it's related to using it in conjunction with CCE, but not always. For myself, I experienced it only a couple of times (I don't use CCE), and I could get past it by rearranging the filter order. What I have never seen is avisynth crashing during an encode (for me it crashed right at the start), as some people reports.

And why should the problem arise when using VBR and not CBR? I don't see how that could influence avisynth. And adding comments to make it work? The script is first parsed to build a filter graph. So is it a bug in the parser? But then it should always crash at the start only.

I guess the problem is deeply buried in avisynth architecture. Maybe a memory leak? Does VBR use more ressources than CBR ?

[bradnopit]

Maybe Found a solution for the sharpen pr0b

after hours of testing using diff options changing scripts i couldn't get the sharpen filter to work @ all, but then when i was serving on the net to relax a bit i found a diff avisynth version avisynth 1.07a,after installing this version instead of the 1 that comes with dvd2svcd bundle i have succesfully encoded 21 chapers from 21 diff movies all 4 pass vbr, also tested cbr works with no prob at all to. default bitrate used on all encodes 2530 max 2230 avg 300 min, bundle version used is 1.08 build 1.

brad

[Mac Sidewinder]

Markrb

You said >>I have decided that I will use CBR to encode most of my movies from now on. The difference to my eye with sharpen is just too great to ignore. I usually keep the AVG bitrate very high anyway so that most encodes are not that far off CBR anyway. Also there is a great myth out there that CBR is inferior in quality to VBR and this is just not the case as long as you can get the bitrate high enough and still have it fit on the number of CD's you want

What do you consider the mininum CBR is for you. If you can't achieve that (don't want to go to extra CD, etc.) do you go back to VBR?

Mac

[markrb]

dividee what happens to me is that it loads fine into CCE and runs the VAF file creation all the way through. Then it starts the MPV creation and this is where 1 of 3 things happen.
1 It will come up with a CRC error right off the bat.
2. It will outright crash.
3. It will hang for a minute or so then start a few frames and then crash.

None of these things happen when the filter is not used.

I also did a quick and dirty test with TMPG and it wouldn't work either.

I did the CCE encodes with and without using DVD2SVCD to make it work.

When CCE goes extremely fast I know there is a problem so I shut down CCE and play the AVS file in media player and it says that AVISYNTH has caught an access violation.

I have tried moving Sharpen around, but it does not load into CCE in any other position then right after the mpeg2source and right before the Resize.

If I have Sharpen and TS both going I cannot get the AVS to work unless I rem out several lines before and after the sharpen line.

If you want ot need more info please contact me. I really love what this filter does and will help as much as I can to get it to work with CCE.


@Mac Sidewinder I keep my CBR encodes over 2200 whenever possible and will rather do another disc then drop the bitrate. I am lucky on two fronts.
1 I have 99 minute discs that I can get about 1000mb on each and
2. I have a 3 disc changer DVD player

So I can keep my bitrates high, even under CBR, and still not have to get out of the chair.

Thanks,
Mark

[trbarry]

Sometimes there can be a confusing relationship between 2 filters that only cause problems when used in a certain order. This can occur when one of them is MMX assembler and leaves the floating point registers in an undefined state by exiting without a emms instruction.

Then the other filter uses floating point without first having luckily gone through some other function that DOES reset the mmx/float state.

Possibly even CCE acts like a float-using filter.

But I don't know if this is the case here. I have thought about changing Avisynth to protect against this by adding a single emms instruction where it returns from a filter. But the last time I tried I couldn't even compile it without some libraries I didn't have, and I never followed up on it.

- Tom

[bradnopit]

k i have tested the avisynth 1.07 on 4 diff computers and all passed the test , dunno why this version works and the 1.05 doesn't work with vbr, i hope someone maybe wants and has the knowledge to take a look at it.

greetz

brad

[dvd2svcd]

Damn, I missed that version (avisynth 1.07) altogether :( damn damn damn.

I guess basically, what I'm trying to say, where did you find that version Bradnopit?

[dividee]

Do others confirm that this version work? And which version is it actually? Try creating a script with only the word "Version" in it and it should write something like "Avisynth v1.0 beta7d, 23 Feb 2002" when played. That's the last version in the CVS at sourceforge.
I quickly checked the revision history and can't see what might have fixed the problem...

I was also having library problems and solved them once... But in the meantime I reinstalled my sytem and I'm having them again. Then I tried compiling with VS7 instead of VS6 and it worked like a charm.

[dvd2svcd]

Thanks, dividee, I'd forgotten that the source was on Sourceforge.

[markrb]

I have no idea how to program or compile. I leave that up to the people that are good at it like you guys.

Is there an already compiled version floating around and I will do any tests you guys want me to do.

There seems to be a 1.9 of source.cpp up there as well, but it is all beyond what I know how to do.

@Dividee I don't know how opensource works. Will you now take the latest version, compile it and host it on your site or do you normally only host the version you have modified yourself? From what I have seen around here you are considered THE guy with Avisynth.

I cannot state enough how much I appreciate the efforts of guys like you Dividee and you DVD2SVCD. If it wasn't for guys like you willing to let others share in the fruits of your labor I wouldn't be having such great fun doing video encoding and I promise you if it wasn't fun I wouldn't be doing it.

Thanks,
Mark

[dvd2svcd]

Just downloaded the source from sourceforge and compiled it. Download attached.

[chainsaw135]

Thank you dvd2svcd very much:)

[markrb]

In my first test it made it much further then before, but about 50% of the way through the mpv it crashed. I have made some changes in the OS and I will see if that fixes it.

Thanks for the file.

Mark

[markrb]

I have tried it twice more in XP and in Win98 and it just doesn't want to work. In 98 it won't even start and in XP it makes it into the MPV and then crashes.

Is there any way we can test the older versions that has been said to work like 1.07a?

Maybe a bug was fixed and then broke again?

Mark

[ShinerSpoon]

Just for grins I used the search button and found a link Dividee has provided.

http://members.cox.net/hansenjo1/avisynth-1.0b7a.zip

[markrb]

Bad Markrb, Bad. Don't you know how to use that search function! :rolleyes:

In my defense that wasn't there when this thread started.

Thanks. I will give it a shot.

Mark

[chainsaw135]

Well its at 35%of the .mpv file, and going. Before it would not even start the .mpv so i'm crossing my fingers.

It just crashed:(((( well i'm going to try the other avisynth.

well mark i'm going to use the setting "intra dc decision set to: auto" The avisynth version is 1.0b7a

EDIT: well it just crashed again at around the same point 34% of the mpv hope you are having better luck then me.

[markrb]

Now this is downright wierd. No matter what I did I was not able to get it to work. Then just for giggles I decided to load the AVS file manually into CCE and make all the setting match what DVD2SVCD put in and it worked perfect. The only 2 possible differences was CCE had Intra DC at auto and had Add Sequance Endcode checked. I don't know if the second one is the same setting DVD2SVCD uses or not. I will be doing further testing.

I have run version on all the Avisynth.dll files and they all say 1.05. Are they suppose to?

I am really confused now. I have sucessfully run sharpen in Avisynth in CCE several times now VBR, but I have to do it without DVD2SVCD. If I run it manually it works. Now what's really strange is that if I run the Avs file that DVD2SVCD created in media player it gives me an Avisynth fatal exception error, but this same file works if manually entered into CCE. What is this? This shouldn't be. Why does it work in CCE, but error out in media player, both versions? Now that same file that errors out in media player if I simply rename it all of a sudden it works in media player. Wow is this bizarre.

Now it finishes the encode in CCE and then CCE gives a GPF when it tries to close, but the encode is perfect.

Mark

[dvd2svcd]

I have run version on all the Avisynth.dll files and they all say 1.05. Are they suppose to?

No, they are not. The one I attached here should say 1.0 beta 7d. Try searching all your drives and rename/delete all avisynth.dll's, except the one in your system32 folder.

[markrb]

Now I feel dumb. I thought that the files were kept in the avisynth subdirectory of DVD2SVCD. Ignore all my previous comments I shall test with the new dll in the correct place. And I call myself a computer expert. Sheesh I should be ashamed.

I had three test encodes go perfect with the 1.07d dll. Granted they were only two minutes each, but I never was able to get them to work before from within DVD2SVCD. It's late and I am going to bed more testing tomorrow.


Mark

[bradnopit]

about the avisynth 1.07

the version that succesfully passed all the tests is the same version posted by ShinerSpoon avisynth-1.0 Beta 7a .
here is a example of the default script used

LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\SVCDMO~1\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
Sharpen(.4)
BicubicResize(480,432,0.00,0.60)
AddBorders(0,72,0,72)

greetz

brad

[chainsaw135]

@bradnopit I have tried that verson tonight and it failed, but i think tomorrow i will try some more tests, right now i need to study but i'm always looking for more information on how to get it working..oh i had my script setup just like you have posted.

[dvd2svcd]

Chainy: Did you try to make an AVS script with the word version in it, if not please do to verify that it is infact 1.0 beta 7d you have tried.

[ShinerSpoon]

FYI: With the version posted by DVD2SVCD, Sharpen seems to be working on my XP machine using CCE just fine.

BTW, Markrb, how would you compare your suggested settings to just using a hotter setting in bicubic like .75? I would be curious. I tried the sharpen filter but thought it degraded the video on my PC monitor.

[markrb]

I used Bicubic settings that high and higher and there was always what looked to my eye as a haze across the screen. With the sharpen filter it seemed to remove that haze. It does make noise more visible and that is why I put the noise filter higher.
Try it with different settings. Sharpen can use settings from 0 to 1.0. So maybe try (.3) or (.2).
One thing of note I have never done a test on a high action movie. All of them have been more sedate drama's.


Mark

[chainsaw135]

@dvd2svcd, I just got time now to check it, and it is said version 1.05 so then i was like ok whats going on well i checked my hardrive for all avisynth.dll files and it came up in my system root. Well then it dawned on me that i need to copy the new .dll in that directory as well:) so as of now i'm running a full test on it thanks for the nudge.

Edit: Well that new avisynth.dll went all the way through no crashing with i used "SHARPEN" and like dvd2svcd said hopefully it will fix most of the crash issues.

[dvd2svcd]

I feel we might be unto something here. moviemandvd had a movie where CCE crashed/stopped at 12% no matter what he did. Then he tried the above version and it worked :) Could this perhaps be the end of the CCE woes. I for one hope so :D

[markrb]

Maybe, Since you were kind enough to post that new version I have had no problems at all with Sharpen and a few other filters I have tried in any order as long as it's a legal order of course.

Thanks again,
Mark

[pacohaas]

dvd2svcd's compile of avisynth makes sharpen work in VFAPI! so safe mode works. Perhaps it's now time to add Sharpen to the frameserver tab (there's room next to TS :))

[markrb]

I have noticed after doing a couple of movies that different strengths of sharpen are needed for different movies. In GhostWorld a setting of .4 worked very well while in Donnie Darko it needs at least .5 or .6. I have a feeling most movies will have different needs, but maybe we can work up a profile of what are good settings for different types of movies. Like Donnie Darko was a slow drama and very dark while GhostWorld was a slow drama, but not nearly as dark.
In any case a quick encode of a short chapter even with CBR will give you a good guide. Maybe make your first test at .4 and then go up or down fron there in the actual encode based on your findings. In any case I am more certain hen ever that when used at the right setting it has really good results.

Mark

[mrbass]

ok truman show still frooze at 7% even with though I put the avisynth.dll 1.0 beta 7d that dvd2svcd compiled in my c:\windows\system32 on winxp. I didn't replace the one in the subfolder avisynth in the dvd2svcd folder cuz I think it's irrelavant.

interesting thing about the two movies that are freezing. Check out the 2KB missing from the first vob file for both of them. Perhaps it's a tiny weenie bikini scratch on the dvd itself and CCE detects it's missing a GOP frame. Gonna have to use safe mode...no biggie.

truman show which freezes at 7%
VTS_01_0.IFO 74KB
VTS_01_1.vob 1,048,542 KB
VTS_01_2.vob 1,048,544 KB
VTS_01_3.vob 1,048,544 KB
VTS_01_4.vob 154,162 KB

scary movie forgot which percent it freezes at
VTS_01_0.IFO 72KB
VTS_01_1.vob 1,048,402 KB
VTS_01_2.vob 1,048,404 KB
VTS_01_3.vob 1,048,404 KB
VTS_01_4.vob 474,980 KB

[JFerguson]

interesting thing about the two movies that are freezing. Check out the 2KB missing from the first vob file for both of them. Perhaps it's a tiny weenie bikini scratch on the dvd itself and CCE detects it's missing a GOP frame. Gonna have to use safe mode...no biggie.

mrbass, I am having the same problem as you with Truman Show (at the same point, I think) and see this 2KB thing as well.

I don't think it's related, though, cuz I've ripped lots of movies that show this same pattern...

[localfinesse]

I am ripping the Truman Show also. It freezes 18 minutes into CCE every time.

I am using the basic settings though.

[Labersack]

Without more info you won't get any answer...
Read the Q&A and post the required information.

[muse]

Mark I too like using sharpening and have found your suggested settings excellent. But I continually generate sizing errors in CCE when using the latest version of Dvd2svcd.

I have tried every sizing option, but normally bicubic. If I do not use the sharpen filter it works fine. I had no problem whatsoever with the previous version. I guess it is the avisynth? Ideally I would like to use sharpen with CVD? Many thanks for all your testing.