View Full Version : aac into .ogm possible ?? ( a wish for oggmux)
Sven Bent
28th March 2002, 00:52
is ther anyway to mux aac into and .ogm container ???
nic's once made an aac playback filter but there was some problesm muxin aaac into avi and get correct sync'ing..seems that the audio was palyed faster than the viden.
anyway i wish to experiment with aac in movies again but i can't find any aac inot .ogm muxin tools
maybe something Koepi woulde like to look at ??
Neo Neko
28th March 2002, 07:08
I have thought about this as well. I have been trying to find the link to the page he had it on, but I am about ready to break down and ask him for it. It would be quite interesting to see how it performs.
Koepi
28th March 2002, 07:50
If I see a free installable aac DSF I could add that. Problem is that I don't want to overcomplicate things and therefore just want to support _1_ special DSF for every input file type.
Regards,
Koepi
Neo Neko
28th March 2002, 08:27
Originally posted by Koepi
If I see a free installable aac DSF I could add that. Problem is that I don't want to overcomplicate things and therefore just want to support _1_ special DSF for every input file type.
Regards,
Koepi
Nic is your man. He has the one the only(did I mention it is working to?) AAC DSF.
Nic
28th March 2002, 10:13
Im waiting in the wings...... :)
Ill have to start doing experiments next week, with OGM (I havent even tried it yet!!!!) & AAC, ill tell you how it goes.... :)
-Nic
Koepi
28th March 2002, 10:28
Nic,
could you please send me that aac DSF?
Regards,
Koepi
Sven Bent
31st March 2002, 19:57
Hey Nic
have you done you homework :D ?.... have you had the time for looking at the AAC DSF so we can mux .aac into .ogm
I'll send you some danish bear if you can have it ready this month :)
(April)
Koepi
31st March 2002, 20:14
Sven,
if you encode your audio to aac you can mux it into the vorbis with the latest OggMux.
Regards,
Koepi
P.S.: I don't know if it is playable afterwoods, I didn't test it yet
Nic
31st March 2002, 20:54
A danish bear? :) I'd prefer beer, but a bear could be fun :D
-Nic
ps
So much to do & so little time....
Sven Bent
31st March 2002, 23:50
if you encode your audio to aac you can mux it into the vorbis with the latest OggMux.
When i try to i get some error code
"Can't render input file M:\futurama\track1-16.aac"
the muxin continues but the no sound and the file are to small to be containin the audio.
The .aac is encode with Pystell 2.15 AAC encoder at around 106kbits
the file palys fine in winamp and in media player (with wave header)
if i add wave heade and mux with oggmux.. its an instant crash
A danish bear? I'd prefer beer, but a bear could be fun
beer/bear whatever... both of them can give you a big headache :)
Thanks for the info Sven...I dont know why it would be an instant crash but Ill look into it this week :)
Cheers,
-Nic
Ive managed to mux an aac stream into an ogm file, unfortunately, it does not play back, in wmp 6.4 it does not even call the aac decoder dsf. In graphedit if i hit ctrl+r and open the ogm file, it loads the aac decoder, but does not play, just a black screen, if i remove the audio portion, the video plays fine. I have one question, is it normal for graphedit to force a wave parser dsf before i connect the aac file(with wav header) to the ogg multiplexer?
Chibi Jasmin
1st April 2002, 16:50
I had the same thing here with AC3-Files...with Wave Parser the final video didn't play. Without Wave Parser the final video worked fine.
You can try this with your AAC-File...
The only problem is, you can't simply delete the wave parser and connect directly. The only way I found here to get the ac3 in without wave parser was to mux the ac3 into an avi and then get the ac3-stream from avi splitter, then wave parser is not inserted automatically and the resulting file works. Maybe this doesn't help you...or is it possible to mux AAC into AVI?
If you find another way NOT to insert wave parser automatically, let us know, please.
The same problem (Wave Parser inserted automatically -> video doesn't play) seems to apply to OggMux as well...if I mux ac3 with OggMux the file doesn't work, if I do it manually with GraphEdit (without WaveParser, method above) it works...
UPDATE:
I must have had an AC3 with some WAV-Header (saved it with Nandub from a video-file I had). Using a ripped AC3 directly from DVD it inserted an AC3-Parser followed by Inter Video Audio Decoder automatically, still no possibility to connect directly...only working solution still the same...
For example connecting an input MP3 resultsin MPEG-I Splitter automatically inserted...probably some kind of "AC3 Splitter" is needed or whatever...or in your case AAC Splitter? If you don't get the AAC muxed into AVI first, which at least works with AC3 as described above...
Just found same thing described here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21011
Well, this is all about AC3, but maybe the source of the problem is the same for AAC? In the above linked thread, it said AC3 filters are probably "locked"...I don't know what that means, but you could try to find out, if the AAC-Filter is "locked" as well or something like that...
Thanks for doing the testing for me Jasmin & Sven...im kind of slacking, because im fiddling with DVD2AVI again :)
My AAC filter is kind of picky on how much data gets sent to it with every sample....So im going to have to check thats working ok...
Ill look into it :)
Cheers,
-Nic
YAY, it worked, aac worked perfectly. I used the aac2wav.exe to add the wav header and then loaded up virtual dub. I then muxed the video and the audio(loaded Wave file) and then proceeded to graphedit. From there i inserted avi splitter to ogg multiplexer. I load the file and it works right in wmp6.4 . One slight question, wmp6.4 does not load the aac dsf:confused: It just has default directsound, and seeking does not work properly, audio and video get horribly out of sync..so i guess that the problem is not yet solved, but progress.
ChristianHJW
2nd April 2002, 09:45
OxP, very interesting, thanks for the work ... but please check your filesize, i somehow have the feeling AAC2WAV.exe converted to AAC to PCM ( WAV ) sound .. otherwise WMP couldnt play it with DirectSound, without having Nic's filter loaded. Is your final muxed video bigger than video and AAC audio stream added ?
Christian, this was my first assumption, and indeed the filesize is roughly correct(7megabytes larger)i assume this is from mux overhead etc..
edit:just like to add that with graphedit, when i press ctrl+r to load the file, it adds the aac decoder dsf.
Chibi Jasmin
2nd April 2002, 17:36
Originally posted by Nic
Thanks for doing the testing for me Jasmin & Sven...im kind of slacking, because im fiddling with DVD2AVI again :)
My AAC filter is kind of picky on how much data gets sent to it with every sample....So im going to have to check thats working ok...
Ill look into it :)
Cheers,
-Nic
Well, actually I didn't test your filter, I only played with AC3-stuff as described. But although I don't have to much time to check it out, I'd be happy to be able to play with it...there's no public download of it, right?
Selur
2nd April 2002, 19:46
public (beta) download to play around with would be fun :D
Well the filter has been around for a while, but my website got lost so it isn't up anymore :(
(I get requests from people sent by Lycos & others everyday, for some of my audio plugins/& various (Im a big fan of Sonique ;) ) - So I should really make the effort and put them up on my new site - hosted by the extremely generous Swede :D )
Ill try & put it up soon :)
@Jasmin:
Your testing of AC3 was useful as was the link to the thread :)
Cheers,
-Nic
ps
DivXNetworks once asked for the source of my AAC DShow filter...I declined...However, perhaps I should have given it to them...they might have had more success than me :D
Chibi Jasmin
2nd April 2002, 22:18
Fine...and thanx in advance for putting the filter up :-)
Chibi Jasmin
2nd April 2002, 22:44
@Nic: I actually found the filter around the web...it's version "Crappy Beta 2"...is there a newer one? Well, I'll see...the fun can begin now...
Yes (::he says shyly::) I forgot I versioned it "Cr*ppy Beta 2"...
...I stopped development when I realised it was impossible for me to get properly sync'd audio inside an AVI (I was in discussion with Nando to help me...he was very helpful & nice, but it was around the time he disappeared)
Crappy Beta 2 was buggy even on a good day, but worked. I did create little modifications after that, that helped with decoding/seeking. But I didn't get much further. (Sven helped alot with the original testing...(Because vqf.com/bbs died, I miss alot of helpful people...its just not quite the same at hydroaudio)
Don't know where you found my filter.... :) I cant find it anywhere.
Best place for audio encoding progs is: http://www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00/
Well done Jasmin on finding it :) let me know how you get on.
Cheers,
-Nic
ps
who is Kirsten Dunst? :D
Charlieds
2nd April 2002, 23:49
@Nic
I found (surprise...) the AAC DSF on the old Jackei site:
http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~jackei/projectbsd
It's a small world...
Chibi Jasmin
3rd April 2002, 00:18
@Nic: I also found it on the same site as Charlieds. Will have to get some sleep before proceeding now...in the long run I am more interested in AAC in MP4-Streams anyway, but for now maybe OGG with ISO-compliant MPEG4-Video and AAC-Audio will do... :-)
Still looking forward to your latest version of the filter. I am sure it will work...will try tomorrow...
Kirsten Dunst is an American actress...I am a big fan...shouldn't be hard to find some info on the web...for a start: http://www.clearillusions.com/kirstendunst/
Wow....I never got to "speak" to Jackei...He had disappeared just when I joined Doom9 I think....How bizzare :)
Anyway AAC in MP4 ? its been done...but not well :)
(Im going to have to buy me one of those phillips raw AAC players....)
Keep me posted :)
-Nic
ps
Kirsten Dunst appears to have quite a following.... :)
ChristianHJW
3rd April 2002, 09:18
Chibi,
i admit there is some beauty in using AAC instead of Vorbis for audio in Ogg ( or soon MCF ) containers with your XviD/DivX movies ... if there will be hardware support for MPEG4 format one day it should be possible to transmux all your movies from Ogg into .mp4 format, with out any reencoding ... but who knows, maybe we will see Vorbis being supported in some hardware players also .. ;) .. i hope you all were signing Benjamin's online petition ?
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1282
Chibi Jasmin
3rd April 2002, 09:59
@Christian: Well, I am not biased to any of the formats. I am not that well-informed, but as far as I got, I thought MPEG4-AAC (along with MPEG4-Video) is going to be the new standard format? Correct me, if I am wrong, please :-)
So I am not into signing any petition for any format, because I would have to make a mind about if vorbis or aac or whatever is better...I actually don't care that much, because any of the current formats is quite good...I just chose, what someone else declares as standard...I know that's not always the best...
Hope you got my point, I am still a bit lazy this morning...
BTW: I will actually start playing with muxing into MP4 now, instead of waiting...although the tools and players we have are still quite limited...
Chibi Jasmin
3rd April 2002, 16:47
I hereby fully confirm the observations you posted about aac in ogm. :-) Same here...
ChristianHJW
3rd April 2002, 21:50
Well ... the discussion about AAC in our movies is getting alive again it seems http://forum.doom9.org/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=22325 .. FYI !
Chibi Jasmin
4th April 2002, 12:29
See my reply there and read, what OxP wrote above, he and me both did not get AAC and OGM to work without seek/sync probs.
Only a stupid question:
what get when you seek in the file? (error, wmp crash?, async)
Chibi Jasmin
5th April 2002, 18:24
Video pops up instantly...seems to be correct (correct place video for the timecode displayed), plays smoothly.
Audio is completely off-sync...not just a couple of frames, way off....
no crashes or whatever.
Chibi Jasmin
5th April 2002, 18:26
Originally posted by Nic
Anyway AAC in MP4 ? its been done...but not well :)
Well, I've done it too, no problem...problem is the video part...no good half-way compliant player around (assuming XVid/DivX5 are compliant)...I simply get to much crashes, videos with artefacts and stuff not played at all....even with MPEG4IP's player...
Thats what I meant by "not well" :D
The project is being done by Cisco though & using great projects like FAAC, so it might get better & better...I just hope they allow a few win32 binaries here & there.
Cheers,
-Nic
Neo Neko
5th April 2002, 20:00
Should we keep our fingers crossed for Apple? Since they created the format that is the basis for MP4. Not to mention the fact that when they write something to tend to do a good job.
Apple also have a good open development policy (if you goto developer.apple.com (I think?) the stuff there is quite useful)
It is under-rated, but QuickTime has never had the best support....
-Nic
@Chibi Jasmin
I encode a Xvid clip 1.41min and mux a aac-wav header into ogm
the vid play ok, audio async, when seek the audio sometimes skip or silent but in the next keyframe again go ok.
this could be for the short time of the clip?
SimonSez07
5th April 2002, 23:06
as i understand it, u can mux aac + divx5 into mp4 using mpeg4ip tools, and then get it to play in realone (free) player + envivo mpeg4 plugin. any experiences w/ this??
anybody know if plans exist for making a direct show mp4 muxer/splitter for wmp anywhere in the near future??
ive tried this mp4 muxer, and i can say that ive had troubles...I have done some testing, getting an aac file into the mp4 is no problem at all. mp4creator60 has worked for some people, i remember a thread with someone who made some working xvid+aac mp4 trailers. Although, I am yet to get muxing xvid or divx5 into an mp4, ive changed the fourcc so its not that :(
SimonSez07
6th April 2002, 06:48
i havent tried it, but suposedly u have to use the divx5.avi -> whatever.mp4 converter built into the divx5 pro package, and then use mp4creator60 to mux in the aac audio.
i guess the resulting stream will play w/ real + envivio or something like that.
good luck
Chibi Jasmin
6th April 2002, 09:09
Originally posted by Kyo
@Chibi Jasmin
I encode a Xvid clip 1.41min and mux a aac-wav header into ogm
the vid play ok, audio async, when seek the audio sometimes skip or silent but in the next keyframe again go ok.
this could be for the short time of the clip?
Well, what is your question? AFAIK, noone has ever got this to work without problems...
Chibi Jasmin
6th April 2002, 09:10
Originally posted by OxP
ive tried this mp4 muxer, and i can say that ive had troubles...I have done some testing, getting an aac file into the mp4 is no problem at all. mp4creator60 has worked for some people, i remember a thread with someone who made some working xvid+aac mp4 trailers. Although, I am yet to get muxing xvid or divx5 into an mp4, ive changed the fourcc so its not that :(
What worked for me (at least muxing, not always playing), was creating the video part with the DivX5-MP4-Creator (change fourcc foru xvid) and add audio with mp4creator cli.
Chibi Jasmin
6th April 2002, 09:16
Originally posted by SimonSez07
i havent tried it, but suposedly u have to use the divx5.avi -> whatever.mp4 converter built into the divx5 pro package, and then use mp4creator60 to mux in the aac audio.
i guess the resulting stream will play w/ real + envivio or something like that.
good luck
I have tried the MPEG4IP Player (mp4player cli and wmp4player (both iso mode and normal mode)), both latest available versions.
I tested following streams:
XVid, DivX5, DivX5+B, DivX5+Q, DivX5+GMC and all other combinations of q,gmc,b
Results:
NONE of the clips played without problems.
DivX5 and DivX5+B played mostly correct, with some color stripes at the bottom.
XVid crashed or gave green blocks all over the video.
GMC lead to kinda blocky artefacts and q crashed...
...something like this, don't quote me, I hope I remembered it correctly. None of the clips was half-way usable, that's for sure.
I didn't try envivio or philips player, because I read the more iso-compliant one is mpeg4ip's...
I have stopped these tests for now, waiting for some new tools, codec versions, players to appear.
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