Neodivx XviD codec?

[Koepi]

Hi,

I just fell over that site:
http://neodivx.cjb.net/

What I saw there made me a little...well...

See for yourself:

19/03/2002 :
Version 8.1B is there: A new codec has appears : Neodivx Xvid codec !!! Which do a perfect file size, and a really good video quality !


Nice Neo, that this is YOUR codec now... *itching my head*

I just thought this might be of interest for some other people as well.

*caugh*

Regards,
Koepi

[avih]

i don't think he ment to discredit xvid ppl. it should be obvious he's just bundling codecs and apps.
although the combination "neodivx xvid coded" is somewhat unfair and annoying...indeed.

[Selur]

Yeah,.. if he wouldn't kind of claim it was his codec (work) it would just be 'another' all-in-one-encoder-pack.

Cu Selur

[Nic]

The fact that it took him about a hundred questions to us before he even was able to compile it correctly.....Makes it even more annoying.

-Nic

[Uli]

Hello!

Did you guys realize, that his page wants to silently install a signed ActiveX control from GATOR :angry:
Thanks to my security soft i got warned...
This guy s*cks :mad:

greetz, Uli

[The People's Elbow]

lol, what a lamer! If I had the abilities to hack his site, I definetly would :D , but actually I'm a n00b in this kind of stuff :(
I think that's not the way a cvs project should be handled by a user!
Hey, a statement of "Neodivx" himself would be very appreciated in this thread I guess... I wanna hear some explanations end excuses!

- Elbow!

[Koepi]

@Nic:

exactly what I thought about it...

@Uli:

Did you take a look at that NeoDivx XviD Codec? At the about box? at the config dialogs? Did he change anything? If yes, are the sources for those changes included in his package? Thanks for the info.

Regards,
Koepi

[avih]

@koepi && nic: i agree.

[Uli]

@Koepi:

I didn't installed that cr*p, so i don't know if he's violating the GPL.

greetz, Uli

[neodivx]

I must reply:

I never say that i was my codec!
You did understand like that:

For long time understanding now, i have seen that to must explication is boring to newbies.
I say:
19/03/2002 :
Version 8.1B is there: A new codec has appears : Neodivx Xvid codec !!! Which do a perfect file size, and a really good video quality !

Well, this is true: a new codec appeart in neodivx. Right with that.
Now it doesn't respect the size and has a good video quality !
And why did I rename to Neodivx Xivd, is to stop the people changing all the time codec's version and after telling me that nothing was working. I do not understand ? Is the use of xvid codec is not good ? Don't you want to make it know ?
What the problem ? Where did you read that I was the codec's maker ? Where did you look i say that ?
I just call the codec differently ( with neodivx before) just to prevent changing codec version because the neodivx's pack is configuring the codec automaticly.
You don't like it ? So well, i could take the codec off. But don't ask people to use it so.
I'm a little bit shock ! Must i make a BIG page in my pack to say: Hey Guys! YOU MUST KNOW THAT THE CODEC IS NOT MINE! I STOLE IT TO PEOPLE FROM XVID! YOU MUST GO ON THAT PAGE AND I BLOCK THE CODEC FOR MY OWN USE!

Don't you think ???

I use the codec in my pack, and i make some interesting comparaison, with codec 5 and so one. I ask the users to use it instead of the codec 5 because i believe the xvid codec will be soon beter than codec 5. But i never say that the codec was mine, where did i ?
I place Neodivx before to stop the newbies to reload some new or old version and crachs neodivx. Don't you understand ?
I never say that the codec is mine.

About the ask for compiling the xvid, i did it ? And What ? What the problem here ? We can't ask and use the codec has we want ? Did i made money for that ? Did i say it was mine ? I can't ask to compile the codec ? What the problem. Please explain. And if you don't like that people uses YOUR CODEC ( it's not yours, it's codec from the creator ( koepi, h, nic) and the community), tell us before! We will no use it!

For sure, you are strange. You want us to use the codec, and if we call it the name you use, just placing Neodivx before because the xvid is in neodivx, block to prevent somes stupids things, and if we can't place it to use, or we can't ask for help to use this stupid vc++, just tell us. We will not anymore use it.
And you will be very glad to have YOUR GNU CODEC, that nobody will use because nobody could.

[neodivx]

and about the activex from my page, i never did that. You are lying. Too bad. don't understand that...!

[Uli]

Originally posted by neodivx
and about the activex from my page, i never did that. You are lying. Too bad. don't understand that...!

Sorry, i was not lying :( , but i commit it was an advertising gimmick from your web hoster ( cjb.net ) who always has very aggressive advertising habits...
After clearing internet cache a reloading the page it wants to change my favorites and stuff like that including a fullscreen borderless advertising in foreground and an invisible advertising autoloader in the background :mad:
Time to put cjb.net into 'restricted sites' thou...

greetz, Uli

[Nic]

It was just the way you put it, but I understand your point, that you want to make it as simple as possible for newbies...So thats fair enough.

But you can understand our reaction: "neodivx xvid codec"....

It just comes across as its "your" codec rather than the communities.....but im sure this is just a minor mis-understanding.

-Nic

[Koepi]

a)@All:
Don't feed the troll.

b)@Neodivx:
Call it "XviD codec(Neodivx' Version)" or "XviD codec (Neodivx compile)" and everything would be fine.

The way you brand the codec now is a little,.. erm, well, I lack the words here.

Your aggressive, hysteric reply just proves our thoughts right.

Think about it again. If we were such bad people as you describe, we wouldn't have helped you.

Koepi

[neodivx]

oki. no problem. I can change the name directly. Maybe my english is not so correct.
I will if you tell me do to so.

And to prevent the crach for installation some old or not handle codec, what must i do ? I must called another name.

Tell me and i will do it.

I did reply because hundreds of people tells me that it was the war or something like that.

So, mister xvid, how do you want me to call it ?
( Please tell me the codec description AND the codec selector name for windows to prevent the others xvid codec to be automaticly call by neodivx)

And i will do it just now. No problem.

Sorry if you was bad for that. If you don't want that the user uses it, please me so also. I will take off the codec.

And for the activex, bah, check before calling. I never did that and i'll never do it.
And if you don't like that people makes some free stuff for the others, please tell me also ( not you koepi, i say that for the stupid one, who say that i was making some activex stuff like windows). Because, remember: a codec is nice, but you must be able to use it even if you are a newbies. With pack like neodivx, how will you do ? In virtual dub or others ? Don't you never think of newbies.

Well, i wait reply so....

[neodivx]

ok; then this is the cjb redirectoring witch make that. I'm not responsable. But, tips, go directly at www.neodivx.org. You will not have the annoying activex stuff from cjb ( www.cjb.net). Sorry for that. But no my fault...

[NoLogo]

NeoDivX>
I understand what you mean: you don't want people to use some versions of the codec which could be bugged, crash your program or so; but i understand the developpers too: by renaming it NeoDivX XviD, you make people think that it is your codec, that you especially created for your app (what is not true).
IMHO, the easiest way to please both parts (you and the developpers) would be that you app is working-guarenteed with one version (you would have tested before), that people could download on your site, named XviD (plus the sources), and links to xvid.org. So people would understand what XviD really is, and who is working at.
But i have to admit that the way you chose was quite disturbing and a little rough.
About the Gator's ActiveX, i have to confirm it exists on your page.

Regards
NoLogo

PS: i'm not a developper, just a user, but i think the fact XviD is GPL doesn't allow you to do everything you want (read the license).

[avih]

shhhh, enough flames. i think this point is understood by everyone by now.

koepi will give him specific strings to put in, and everyone will be happy.

@neodivx: i never tried your pack, but i appreciate it nontheless. making stuff easier for newbies is a welcome effort. please also note that the conbination "Neodivx xvid codec" means: "the xvid codec that belonges to Neodivx". that's english. so that combination bad to use and make all other people annoyed.

cheers
avi.

[Koepi]

Hu? I'm supposed to dictate titles now?

Well, I made two suggestions that sound better for _me_.

.

[neodivx]

arf. i will lauch the codec in windows codec select with the name: XivD ( Neodivx release beta machin with date machin and stuff machin). Did you ever made a encoding stuff ? I guess no

[neodivx]

ok; guys, let's make it like big people:


what i'm autorise to do and what the name i must place.
And what i must do to be complitly gnu with you.
And who is responsable for the xvid to make me speak with him or her.

Thanks

[Koepi]

Hahaha, "let's make it like big people" and "And who is responsable for the xvid to make me speak with him or her." absolutely belong together, you're right.

If something's GNU, it's owned by the community. But I'd say project leader is Isibaar.

Well, I'm off here, do whatever you want. Keep the name as you want it (and risk real problems with the public).
Now you completely lost my support. This childish, uncontrolled behaviour simply is too much for me.

Bye,
Koepi

[avih]

xvid is under GPL lisence.
GPL project binaries must be supplied with the source code. xvid is no exception.

permission from the authors is granted for that in the GPL lisence.

xvid is implementing mpeg4 patents, and as such, if u distribute the binaries you would have to pay to MPEGLA, which holds the patents. from that point of view Koepi's, nic's and uManiac's binaries are also illegal except for educational usage.

so there's no leagal way to distribute xvid binaries for general usage. u may be sued by MPEGLA for that (although the chance is very low imho). u may check the forum in www.xvid.org for leagal issues.

the original makers of xvid are mentioned in the xvid source files, although now much more people are involved and contributing in programming and testing.

i think Koepi's suggestion of:
"Xvid Codec (Neodivx compile)"
is good enough.

that's regarding xvid.

regarding the other applications you bundle:

any GPL project has the same issues as xvid (except for the specific MPEGLA patents).

it would be nice if u ask permission from the authors of the different packages u bundle, and give credits, maybe even in a splash screen. (i haven't tried your pack, so if you already did that, ignore this paragraph).

i think that bundeling commercial packages (such as divx) is probably illegal, but you'll have to read the lisence that comes with the packege or ask them directly.

i think if u follow these points, you would be fair enough for everyone.

if you make any shortcuts, you take the responsibility :).

cheers
avih.

[neodivx]

bah. each time we ask something, we are considery like stupid one.
I just ask the best for all.
I don't know what the gnu is.
I just want to be sure.
It's you who tells me no to do.
So tell me what to do.
And if my sentence doesn't make sence to you,
that to bad.

Sorry that we can't understand each others;
You want stuff and not stuff.
I don't follow.
So I will read the GNU where carefully!
And i will make my self an idea.
And because the big Koepi Wanted not spend time to explain stuff to me, is there somebody who would be kind enough to explain me what gnu and who is (are) the xvid keeper ( the one who could explain me)

Like that i could understand.

And by the way, koepi, if you come something to me to ask some help about borland c++ or delphi, i will not say something. This is normal to help the people who doesn't know

Maintenant, si tu ne comprends que lorsqu'on ne sait pas, on doit demander dans une langue qui n'est pas forcement la notre, et qu'on doit se battre pour essayer de faire quelques choses de gratuit pour la communaute, ben c'est bien triste

Ps: if you did not understand the french language, to bad for you. Don't ask for help, somes could say: what a stupid boy, as you do with me:

I'm just asking help to be fair with you and the communauty.
And you tell me go away.

Thanks anyway. I have try.

[neodivx]

thanks avih. That's more clear for now.

But could you explain me two things i didn't understand:

xvid is implementing mpeg4 patents, and as such, if u distribute the binaries you would have to pay to MPEGLA, which holds the patents. from that point of view Koepi's, nic's and uManiac's binaries are also illegal except for educational usage

then, xvid will never be autorisate for a pack to create some stuffs by ourself, like neodivx does for people ?

then, when i placed it in it, it was illegal ? What the best way to make knowed the xvid to people and to be compiliant ? ( divx5 is compiliant ? (just asking, i don't know)

i think that bundeling commercial packages (such as divx) is probably illegal, but you'll have to read the lisence that comes with the packege or ask them directly

I don't sell anything. Everything is free. Is that correct ?

if you make any shortcuts, you take the responsibility .

What do you mean ? I don't follow the sence. What kind of shortcuts.


Thanks for your help. Really. I want to find a way out, and really hope that everything will be ok for all.
I will change the name of the pack. Sorry for the disturb.

thanks anyway...

[Koepi]

Enough is enough.

Let the public be the judge over neodivx.

I didn't insult anyone here, but neodivx keeps going on doing that over and over again.

It's really nice that some people demand support, get it, demand it again and once more, and after that treat you like you're an a**hole.

I want to remind you neodivx, we have forum rules. Read them carefully. You're turning this thread into a flame thread as which it didn't started. It was just wondering about your practice to call XviD your property.

I'm still to friendly with you, but I'm a friendly person in general.
But as I started the mail,
enough is enough.

[Nic]

I think closing the thread is most likely a good idea.....

[neodivx]

please do understand: I just want to understand. Explain me the rules. And if i didn't understand, don't be bad to me. I really try. What must i do ? Remove the xvid codec! I will so. Change the name! I will do it also. But what must i do:
Koepi, i'm not a bad guy. I know what's working hard mean. Really. I don't want to stole people.
I just want to know: Explain me what you want really clearly ( i'm french) and i will do it.

That's all.
I'm sorry if you take that bad. But here, i just want to understand the meaning of all that stuffs. Just explain me: for the name, i will change it near what you say. For the rules of gnu, this is new for me.
But understand: If i don't place the source i'm not compiliant, and if i do, i can because the mpeg licence. What must i do ? I just want to make know xvid to people, that was my fault. I do understand that you don't want to be stole of something you make hours to make.
Really i do understand. Just what i want is to understand.


For the mail, is to remove me on this forum ? why. To bad.

[Teegedeck]

Hello,

let's end it. [EDIT: We understand some of this was a language problem and not meant offending; we tried to contact a French co-mod, but he wasn't online. I'm sure he could have explained everything a bit better than we did. ]



On the legal situation of XviD:

It is comparable to that of LAME. You can't distribute LAME legally - although it is the best MP3-Encoder.

Perhaps it would be legal if you paid license-fees. But I'm not sure.

Concerning DivX5: Even if you only distribute Shareware or Freeware, you have to ask the authors first. And DivX5 is commercial.

So your pack is probably illegal, let's face it.

Concerning GNU: I doubt that you can comply with GNU Public License because for that your own product would have to be GPL, too.

But the main thing is, make nobody think that you developed XviD! Just giue the developers the credits they deserve.

I think it's all been said, now, and it is better to close this thread if no-one has any important last comments. I'll giue it ten minutes.

Greetings,

Tee

[neodivx]

oki
Thanks for your respond, it's more clear: Impossible to be compiliant. Then, i will remove it.

Sorry if we didn't understand each others. To bad for that.

And the xvid will stay where it is: nobody could use it for free and to help people. Really i think is a bad thing. Xvid is great, and will be greater.

So, i will remove partially xvid from neodivx.

Hope this is enough!

but i think that things could be different.

[neodivx]

PS: if you found your french modo, PLEASE, ask him to post like that i could understand beter. Thanks: My Email neodivx@neodivx.org. Thanks again.

[Koepi]

why do I have to repeat myself so often?

Just rename "Neodivx XviD Codec" to "XviD codec (Neodivx Version)" or something similar so that it doesn't look as if you invented the codec.

To be GPL compliant you have to make your _modified sources_ available to the public, so if you changed for example the vfw parameters you _must_ make the changed source files easy accessable for everyone.

The legal issues aren't too bad in europe. But XviD binaries have to be educational in any case, else you'd have to pay license fees to MPEG consortium.

[avih]

@neodivx

as u said: "behave like big people"
just do it. everything mentioned here could be read on this forum or xvid forum, or GPL license or any package license.

take responsibility, and ask all these questions only after you've invested the time and read yourself everything that's related.

the time of other people is expensive, and they help because they want to.

not reading everything you can before you ask such questions is not nice.

i wish you good luck with your pack.

and... take it easy :)

cheers
avi.

[neodivx]

oki. that's clear now!

I will change the codec name as you tell me this evening,

and i will take care that doesn't come again.

Koepi, really, i'm sorry if i have hurt you. Really. It's because i didn't understand all that kind.

Promis, i will make a BIG LINK to xvid! Really will do. Sorry for the hurt.

Neodivx

[Teegedeck]

That's right, I didn't tell you to remove the codec, I told you that your pack will likely never be legal (with or without XviD).

OK, thread closed now, have a nicer day everyone!