ogg vorbis playback since DSF 0.9.8.8 stuck

[Bluedan]

since DSF 0.9.8.8 I'm unable to play Ogg Vorbis streams in direct show applications as most video players are.
I can play them in Winamp which is not DS dependant.
If I switch back to 0.9.8.7 it works, but playback of movies is not as smooth as it can be then...
It is not a question of compatibility of different DS versions, it's no matter if the stream is created under older or latest DSF.
Note: during DSF installation also vorbis.dll, vorbisenc.dll and ogg.dll are updated, which are used by encoding programs aka BeSweet if libvorbis.dll (unifies the entities above) is not present.
What should I do ? Now with the latest version all my problems as W98 user have gone, except this one.
Is it because of the IEEE 32 output ??
I have a simple onboard chip - Creative soundblaster 128 PCI.
Next thing I will try is replacing the vorbis.dll with other versions...
Any other suggestions ??

[total_chris]

I have the same problem. 8.8 and 8.9 do not playback in DS apps on ws98. 8.6 does for me

[TobiasWaldvogel]

Originally posted by total_chris
I have the same problem. 8.8 and 8.9 do not playback in DS apps on ws98. 8.6 does for me

"do not playback" does it mean that you don'T hear anything or that it sounds strange? The major change on 0.9.8.8 was enabeling the IEEE float 32 mode but the PCM mode is available as well if your OS/DirectX/SoundCard combination does not support this.

Bluedan: I have also an on-board sound blaster 128PCI and it works great. Which OS/DirectX version do you have (run dxdiag to get the directx version)?

Best regards,
Tobias

[Bluedan]

@ Tobias
I am running DX8.1. The file is playable, but there is no sound.
I can open an OGM file with video and Vorbis within and it will play only the video, soundless...
This is best visible in media player when I only open OGG Vorbis file: total stream time is correct, slider is moving.
Under properties, Vorbis decompressor says: output IEEE 32 float.
And Direct sound device says... nothing. Sound card is doing nothing, not a single value is shown on prop page. All fields empty.
I already tried to reinstall device drivers, but then my PC crashed a lot when the Creative Setup tried to un-/install.
Do you have a good source for working drivers ? Which are yours ? And also onboard ? Thanx in advance.
P.S. this is a ALDI-machine...

[Bluedan]

I spent whole last nite and the rest of my spare time to mess around with the most likely appropiate drivers.
Finally I managed to update my drivers to v4.12 something without success regarding the ogg vorbis playback. Neither DX8.1 reinstalling nor registering all DLLs again had a benefit.
Then I played around again with graph edit and found out the following:

Vorbis Dec output->>>>>>>>>PCM 16 bit______IEEE float______sound

Audio Renderer
|
V
Direct sound SB playback-----------------------x------------none

Direct sound Total Rec---------x-------------------------stuttering
(emulated)

Wave output device-------------x-----------------------stutter->crash

SB Playback--------------------x--------------------------stutter

Tot Rec Playback---------------x--------------------------stutter

This is to much for me...

[total_chris]

for me DSF 8.9 say output format is PCM int 16, but no sound can be heard. Video plays perfect.
With DSF 8.6 both, vid and sound works.

OS is W98SE
DX 8.1
SB Live 5.1

[MaTTeR]

Same happens here using BSplayer unless you go change the audio device to "Default Direct Sound", nothing else plays sound.

Did you guys try this or are you just using WiMP?

[kagoru]

Same problem here!

@MaTTeR:
Did you try seeking in bsPlayer? I noticed that i can hear sound when I play the movie from the beginning. But the moment I seek or ff I lose the sound!!

[MaTTeR]

@kagoru

I use to do that with 8.7 and 8.8 and the audio would start.Now 8.9 works fine though.

[Bluedan]

My experiences:
bs player didn't work: video fine as usual, no sound.
WMP 6.4 : same
Sasami 2k: success ! I want to know what the extra nuclei audio filter switched inbetween do to the audio stream, because to my surprise I found out that in S2k's fliter graph the default DS output device is used and it is fed by Vorbis decompressor with PCM 16bit !
Playing around, no problem except some accidental tiny skips in video.

Another note: even with the latest OGG DSF 0.9.8.9 the progress bar neither in Graph edit nor in OggMux 0.4 did work. I suppose that also new OggMux 0.5 won't get rid of that - didn't test it though so far.

W98SE on PIII667MHz:scared:
Dx8.1
OggDSF 0.9.8.9

[Amerzone]

Same problems here with the latest 0.9.8.9 version. The DSF simply does not work. If I render an ogg audio file (just audio, no muxed video/audio) with GraphEdit, the graph is shown ok, but the play button flashes for a moment and then becomes inactive again. Ditto for all DS based players, eg. WiMP, Zoom. I get no audio and the progress bar does not advance. I'm using WinME, DirectX 8.1, SB Live! 1024 Player with the latest available drivers. Unfortunately, I haven't kept any previous versions of the DSF (it used to work in the past, don't remember which version, though). Is there any url, where I could get earlier versions from?

[Bluedan]

Originally posted by Amerzone
Is there any url, where I could get earlier versions from?
Pass me your e-mail I'll send it (0.9.8.7) to you.
Did you try Sasami2k ? It shurely works...
http://www.sasami2k.com
... try it and tell us.
What output format does Vorbis Dec use (prop page) when you build that graph in GraphEdit? IEEE Float32 or PCM?

[TobiasWaldvogel]

There seems to be a bug in Win98 and WinME. In both OS DirectSound accepts the IEEE float or the extended PCM mode but it doesn't play. If an OS is not able to deal with these modes it should reject the type because the decoder offers standard PCM as well. (E.g. in Win2000 with DX7 this works). Well, I will add an option in future to select the preferred output type and will set as PCM standard as default if Win98 or ME is detected.

Best regards,
Tobias

PS: Upgrade to "real" OS like W2K or XP solves the problem as well :D

[Bluedan]

@Tobias

So is the bug bound to the DirectSound drivers directly or not?

I'm a bit confused about the implementation of the DX filter in the driver environment of the hardware manufacturer of my soundship.
Certainly OS specific here in this "joint-venture" are the different driver versions. And I guess the DSound components of DX will be, too.
But obviously there are a lot W98SE/ME users who are not complaining.
And all guys affected who contributed in this thread owned a creative product, which makes me prefer the screwed driver theory.
On the other hand...
you are working with DX 7.1, if it's DX dependant maybe the bug has been recently introduced by v8.0/8.1 ?

BTW searching the internet and the MDSN database I found nothing about IEEE format, only about "firewire". What is it ? Its terminology tells a certain standard, and more...?

Sorry, for asking so much. But having problems with my PC kicks me off to think about the way things work inside this messy box.

Thank you so much Tobias for being so helpful so far, you are definitely fulfiling the goal of this board.
Regards, bluedan

[TobiasWaldvogel]

This is some background info about the changes in the vorbis decoder in version 0.9.8.8:

Until DX7 there was only the WAVEFORMATEX with format tag PCM available for delivering data to the sound renderer (which is integer values, 8 or 16 bit). As of DX8 (or 8.1 I'm not quite sure) there is a new extension with the name WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE. This format type allows you to pass more than 2 channels and integers with more than 16bit. On the other hand you may pass the data also as IEEE float values with any bit depth.
I've decided to choose IEEE float 32 as new preferred type because this is the data type which returns the vorbis libraray. The advantage is that if anyone has a sound card with more than 16bit precision he can make full use of his hardware. Unfortunately there seems to be bug in DX8.1 for Win98 & WinME (which is different from the W2K version).

Have a look at http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/audio/multichaud.htm for more information about the new audio format types.

Best regards,
Tobias

[SpEeDaMiGo]

I happen to have the same problem. *.ogm plays fine but without any sound. Also *.ogg files (just audio) won't play in WMP 6.4 or BsPlayer (only in Winamp with plugin). I'm using Win98SE (don't blame me ....)

Could someone mail me the 0.9.8.7 version (which is known to work fine) ?
speedamigo@gmx.net

thanks

[Amerzone]

Originally posted by Bluedan

Pass me your e-mail I'll send it (0.9.8.7) to you.
Did you try Sasami2k ? It shurely works...
http://www.sasami2k.com
... try it and tell us.
What output format does Vorbis Dec use (prop page) when you build that graph in GraphEdit? IEEE Float32 or PCM?
Thanx Bluedan for sending me the older versions that work with Win9x/ME. No, I haven't tried Sasami2k, prefer to stay with my beloved Zoom. The Vorbis decoder uses PCM int 16 output.

[SpEeDaMiGo]

@Amerzone
Got your mail with attached 0.9.8.7 directshow filter, thanks. This one works fine.

@all
DivX5 produces 2 frames delay when used with the avi format (and MP3), as many people out there reported and what I can confirm too.
Does this also happen in the case of DivX5 with ogm format (and Ogg Vorbis) ??

[kastro68]

I encoded audio using Oggmachine and HeachAC3he...the sound file plays back with no sound but i am able to seek. I play it back using Winamp like i always do. Even when I mux it using graphedit *.ogm file plays back in wmp6.4 but with no sound.

However, when I use Easy CDDA extractor to encode the Vorbis audio it works in Winamp and I am able to hear sound. I can mux this audio with the video using graphedit and it plays back with sound.

However, Koepi's oggmux .7 something does not mux the audio that i encode using Easy CDDA extractor, graphedit works though.

Using winXp and soundblaster live 5.1 DE

[kastro68]

I only get NO SOUND when I encode a wave into ogg vorbis audio.

I do get sound when I encode an AC3 file into ogg audio.

[TobiasWaldvogel]

Originally posted by kastro68
I only get NO SOUND when I encode a wave into ogg vorbis audio.

I do get sound when I encode an AC3 file into ogg audio.

I suppose your wave was 2-channel and the AC3 encode 6-channel, isn't it?

Best regards,
Tobias

PS: Probably this evening I will publish a new version which lets you choose the preferred output mode. By default it will be int16 for Win98 & ME. This will solve all your problems. Thanks for your patience.

[easyfab]

I have the same problems with my soundblaster.
When i use ds -> no sound
With Wave output device -> stutter
But I find a solution : disable the hardware support of DS. For me it works.
Can you try and tell me

Easyfab

[Ripping 3ngine]

>disable the hardware support of DS

-where do u do that??

[easyfab]

I don't no if it is the better way but:
MSinfo32.exe->utilities->outil de diagnostic directx (in french version)->sound->then choose the first mode (aucune acceleration in french)

Easyfab

[kastro68]

I suppose your wave was 2-channel and the AC3 encode 6-channel, isn't it?



I'm not too sure myself. The wave file is the one that is made by DVD2AVI when I save the project. I normally work with wave because I think it's quicker.

The AC3 was also made with DVD2AVI, I don't know if it is 6 channel or 2 channel though.

It works now, so there is nothing for me to complain about, except the encoding speed.

[kagoru]

I installed 0.9.8.7 since the newest filters didn't give me sound. So I just installed 0.9.8.7 over it (do u have to do a uninstall before you install an older version?) Now I still don't get any sound, only when I play the movie from the beginning. The moment I start seeking though the sound stops. I rendered the ogm in graphedit and the soundstream gets connected to the mp3 decoder and that gets connected to the default direct sound device.

Can someone PLEASE help me?


TIA.

[kastro68]

I can't remember feeding anything through an mp3 decoder.

Don't you feed both the vorbis audio and video into the DSF ogg multiplexor and out from the ogg multiplexor into the file writer. I can't remember exactly anymore because I have started to get lazy and now use Koepi's oggMux.

Why don't you use Koepi's OggMux too?

[TobiasWaldvogel]

Hi all Win98 and ME users:

I've released a new version 0.9.9.0 which lets you choose the preferred output mode (by default the classic standard PCM for Win98 and WinME). Download it at http://tobias.everwicked.com

Best regards,
Tobias

[MaTTeR]

Tobias just to clarify so you don't get a ton of questions :-)

This release 9.9 isn't required for Win2k and WinXP users right?

Edit/ Maybe I should ask this way. Can Win2k and XP users update to this version as well?

[TobiasWaldvogel]

Originally posted by MaTTeR
This release 9.9 isn't required for Win2k and WinXP users right?

Edit/ Maybe I should ask this way. Can Win2k and XP users update to this version as well?

In general new release should work always with every operating system. So you can update to 0.9.9.0 independent of your operating system but it is currently not required for XP and Windows 2000. Anyway it contains a new function to support future versions of the OggMux utility. I.e. may be you need to update for future versions of OggMux.

Best regards,
Tobias

[hofmetzger]

although this thread is getting OT, i want to ask:

does 16bit int output take less rescources than 32bit float?

and do i only profit of 32bit if i have a "high-end" soundcard?
(not like my sb1024 live):)

[TobiasWaldvogel]

Originally posted by hofmetzger
does 16bit int output take less rescources than 32bit float?

Well, there is no significant difference. (The output buffer of the deocder is smaller but we are talking of ca. 32kB)

and do i only profit of 32bit if i have a "high-end" soundcard? (not like my sb1024 live):)

If you have a soundcard with 16D/A converters there is no difference in the result of float32 or int16.

[The People's Elbow]

@Tobias: Superb work, everything runs smoothely now and pruduces great ogg sound :D ! Both settings (16 or 32 Bit) work on my Win ME machine, now I'm save ;)
...Many thanks for your effort! Keep on going, V1.0.0.0 isn't far away anymore ;)

- greetz from the Elbow

[SpEeDaMiGo]

Although for me versions above 0.9.8.7 wouldn't play the audio, 0.9.9.0 now plays in both IEEE 32bit and 16bit. Great work!

Backward seeking however still doesn't work alright (see http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22126 ). I'm sure many haven't yet noticed this prob and it doesn't seem to be player-specific (it even occurs in OggCut).