Ultimate IVTC settings?

[DJ Bobo]

@ manono
I'll replay just this time for you. I repeat, blendfields is only for bad telecined material, because almost every frame has interlacing. As said before I don't even bother deinterlacing on normal telecined video, i just use the ivtc command.
To be honest, I'm yet surprised that even you replied on the blendfields matter, although I explained very clearly many times before why & when it has to be used.
Merry christmas to you too

[ArdenDag]

@DJ bobo

You're taking your side a little TOOOOO strongly, geez :) Lighten up, everyone is NOT going to see it your way...


:)

Merry Christmas :)

[OUTPinged_]

the test was ready yesterday and i dont know if i would do it after several last posts... oh well, hope it will be interesting for some people to check


I added one more contestant there, force film with interpolated FD over it. That way you we would see what we get in terms of speed.

4 test samples were used. First was the film content. Second was half-film with "evil" scenechange and half-interlaced. Third was the "non-ivtc-able" one, the stuff you see on NGE, Ranma and other old tape-source dvds. Fourth was the "mouth" clip.

As ivtc22 and FF were leaving interlaced frames slipping on 2 and 3rd clip, i had to use deinterlacer for them. I checked with both blendfields and FD in interpolate mode.

More: I did some tests and it seemed the only difference between ivtc22's 5 settings suggested (for given 4 clips) was the mouth clip working. I have only one of them and I cant tell if those settings are any better or not. All settings worked exactly same for other clips, so 60,11,110 was used. No deinterlacing was required for "film" clip, so it wasnt there. Thus the speeds.

As I value my time YV12 mode was used where possible.


Plain avs performance in YV12 mode was 53.03 fps.



decomb4-YV12 | ivtc22 BF | ivtc22 FD | FF FD
Film : 16.88* 15.65* 15.61* 49.16*
60fps: 12.21 13.75 11.54 24.57
crap : 11.83 13.92 11.78 25.87
mouth: 14.50* 14.06* 14.05* 28.59

* means deinterlacer (postprocessing for decomb) was disabled.



It seems the perfomance of Decomb depends on amount of frames that need to be deinterlaced.

Film clip was in 16:9 and it seems cropping gave me some speed. It seems speed of decomb mainly depends on the amount of frames that needed to be postprocessed.

FF FD looked best for clip1 and worst for all others. As actual force film doesnt require any processing power, we can see the speed drop from FD, and it is pretty big. I should note that actual deinterlacing takes quite an amount of cpu time, and the detection is pretty speedy.

Decomb clips looked clearly better in FILM parts, due to lack of deinterlacing. Blendfields was a blurry shit, as expected.

60fps parts all looked bad, except that FF did provide a smoother picture. :/

Also, film clip was processed correctly by all tools. Mouth type clips seem to be able to be processed by ivtc22 well if right settings would be chosen. So there, no one questions ivtc22's ability to match fields. It's the need of deinterlacer for lots of sources.


P.S. I remember testing decomb 1.8 vs ivtc21 and decomb was slower about 2 times back then. Great job on optimising it, DG.

Merry Cristmas to all that kept this thread alive (expecially to bobotns)

[Guest]

@OUTPinged

Now that's the kind of post I like to see. :)

@DJ Bobo

Regarding your concern about FD, have you tried just setting full=true? This forces every frame to be deinterlaced, but only the combed areas of each frame will be touched. Your on/off problem I expect comes from using full=false and a poor threshold.

To get the equivalent of full=true for Telecide's postprocessing, you can set post=true and threshold=0, or just use the override file to force deinterlacing of all the frames (using a frame range specifier).

The problem with blendfields() is that it affects the entire picture, including noncombed areas.

[manono]

Hi-

Yeah, if I have a really nasty anime source like NGE or Lodoss (haven't worked with Ranma), I'll set Threshold=5,Dthreshold=5 and that cleans it up every time. Must be pretty close to Full=True though.

[Kaiousama]

Originally posted by OUTPinged_

Decomb clips looked clearly better in FILM parts, due to lack of deinterlacing. Blendfields was a blurry shit, as expected.


Originally posted by Neuron2

Regarding your concern about FD, have you tried just setting full=true? This forces every frame to be deinterlaced, but only the combed areas of each frame will be touched. Your on/off problem I expect comes from using full=false and a poor threshold.


@Neuron2:
What do you think about to add the possibility in FD (and even in the post=true of Telecide) to sharpens (with a strenght parameter) the frame's deinterlaced areas, in order to achieve a uniform focus between the FILM non deinterlaced frames and the deinterlaced ones?

bye :p

[DJ Bobo]

@ neuron2
This is exactly why I prefer blendfields over fielddeinterlace for bad telecined video like Evangelion. I already explained that, the video is kinda pumping, very clearly to see on subtitles or text, it goes sharp/unsharp the whole time, so I prefer deinterlacing absolutely all and sharpen with unfilter after that.

[Guest]

@DJ BoBo

You didn't answer my question.

[DJ Bobo]

oh, almost forgot, sorry, yeah of course, I used to use fielddeinterlace(full=true), but it didn't work as I liked (pumping pumping...), so I switched to blendfields.

[EDIT]
I even thought that full=true doesn't work at all, as the results were "identical". I wanted to post that as a bug, but then I saw that nobody was complaining about it, so I thought I'll just search for another method...

[Guest]

Can you please make available a test clip (source not processed) that shows this "pumping" effect that you are talking about?

[DJ Bobo]

Well, if you show me a place where I can upload it, no problem

[natami]

hello...im in a spot where im not sure what to do...the project i'm currently working on comes out in dvd2avi as 80% FILM...how would you recommend i go about deinterlacing and ivtc...is it just normal telecide/decimate with decomb (or ivtc;)...or is my best bet just trial and error...thanks

[Guest]

You need to process that with Decomb and specifically using the new mode=3 for Decimate. This new mode will be released very soon. It will decimate film portions in the normal way while applying the equivalent of ConvertFPS() to the video portions. The resulting clip will have a frame rate of 4/5 the input rate, i.e., 23.976 for NTSC.

An alternate approach would be to use Decimate(mode=1) with the improvements to mode=1 support that will also be released.

Hybrid material is challenging and a good solution is still being evolved.

[ArdenDag]

I'd definitely go the decomb route first (I should try IVTC2.2, but I'm just to lazy to get another IVTCer and test it and find it's best settings for each encode I do...)

If you're doing this in AVS 2.5, I'd get Don's new release and test some of the new stuff he's added... Might help tracking down the non-film sections better and keep the field mis-matching and combing to a minimum

EDIT: LOL, beaten by the man himself! :)

[ArdenDag]

@neuron

Question about flags left by DVD2AVI project files, and I know this has been asked before...

Does it keep flags as to where a film converges from FILM to NTSC (let's say this for now...) and back again, where it happens, etc etc... and can these be used by decomb? I know I read somewhere you responding to this, but I forget where...

EDIT: You also mentioned the 'new' mode=3... so will this be a god-send for us who are planning to rip/encode hybrid stuff like Star Trek DVDs? (Gonna happen for me eventually... :) )

[Guest]

Originally posted by ArdenDag
Question about flags left by DVD2AVI project files, and I know this has been asked before...

Does it keep flags as to where a film converges from FILM to NTSC (let's say this for now...) and back again, where it happens, etc etc... and can these be used by decomb? I know I read somewhere you responding to this, but I forget where...It keeps the RFF and TFF flags of the MPEG syntax. If they accurately reflect the actual video content, they can certainly be used. The problem is that the flags are commonly abused such that they do not reflect the actual video content. Let me give an example. A 3:2 pulled-down video is captured from Svideo, so no MPEG. Then the captured video is MPEG encoded as straight interlaced video. Now we have a case where the flags tell us nothing but the video content itself is easily IVTC'able by Decomb (and others).

But certainly, where the flags are known to be reliable, they can be used. I am addressing ways to exploit them.

You also mentioned the 'new' mode=3... so will this be a god-send for us who are planning to rip/encode hybrid stuff like Star Trek DVDs? (Gonna happen for me eventually... :) )I can't promise you any trips to God, but mode=3 will give you a second way to process hybrid material. It seemed to me that when the clip is mostly film, it ought to use mode=3, so that the film portions go through nicely, since they are the majority of the clip. But when the clip is mostly nonfilm, you would want mode=1, to render the video portions nicely.

Because clips are usually mostly film (especially from rips), this new mode may well be helpful.

[natami]

thanks for your quick and informative replies...is mode 3 available in the legacy version decomb?, or is it (will it be) a yv12 thing...thanks

[Guest]

Originally posted by natami
thanks for your quick and informative replies...is mode 3 available in the legacy version decomb?, or is it (will it be) a yv12 thing...thanks It is not available in Legacy, nor will it be.

But Avisynth 2.5 is not restricted to YV12.

I encourage everyone to switch to Avisynth 2.5.

[ArdenDag]

I'll switch soon enough ;)