Nandub conversion of 448kb/s file

[golfbc]

:angry:
I have muxed an avi file with an ac3 file and don't get expected results. The ac3 file information before processing is as follows:

"Fmt Tag 0x2000. SampFreq 48000, channels: 5, bitrate: 448kb/s"

When Nandub finishes (I have used the newer version of VirtualDub and get the same results) the following information is available.

"Fmt Tag 0x2000, SampFreq 48000, channels: 2, bitrate: 192 kb/s"

I know I must not be doing something correct.

Thank you for your assistance.
:(

[MaTTeR]

I'm not really sure what your question or problem is here.

If your trying to mux an AC3 file into an AVI then use NanDub. What were the results you expected?

[golfbc]

I used Nandub and the finished Divx had 192 kb/s and not 448 kb/s. I guess I was expecting an audio signal the same as that which I muxed with the avi video file. The original file had a sample rate of 48000, 5 channels with 448kb/s. If these are not realistic expectations then please tell me what I should expect from the process. I ripped with SmartRipper, demuxed with Flask with direct stream copy of the audio file, and then muxed them with nandub. I am chasing the ability to generate true 5.1 audio from my pc to my home theatre.

Thanks for your help.
:confused:

By the way, you and the rest of the Doom9 team are beyond belief. I will be supporting you and your efforts.

[MaTTeR]

I speak for all of us when I say thanks for the kind words. We try;)

Now, something strange with what you said though. If NanDub tells you your AC3 file is 5 channels then the you can bet 99.9% of the time it's correct. Going on that assumption, how did you find out the muxed AVI file is only 2 channels? Right click on the file and selected properties?

Another thing is I don't know how reliable Flask is when demuxing AC3 files. It certainly isn't reliable encoding video so I have to think it might do some strange things while demuxing AC3. You should maybe use DVD2AVI to demux the AC3 as it's much more reliable.

[golfbc]

I played the avi with Windows Media Player 6.4 and under advanced properties checked filters in use. Direct sound device indicated 2 channel 192kb/s rate. Additionally, the iviaudio filter indicated only two speaker mode capability. Of course, I don't have an audio card yet capable of generating 5.1 sound.......I was waiting until I had this process in hand. I also played this avi with PowerDVD and saw the same 192kb/s information. If you think DVD2AVI is worth a try then I will try that. Being a Newbie I am slowly coming up to speed and appreciate your patience.

[MaTTeR]

I'll try and put this as gently as I can...avoid Flask for anything at all costs. DVD2AVi is going to be the most reliable for you to use when demuxing AC3 from the VOB files.

I suspect until you get a 5.1 card, the InterVideo filter properties is not going to have the 4, 5.1 and SPDIF options available. InterVideo filters try to auto-detct the playback capabilities of your sound card. If you truly need to check the AVI file to see what audio bitrate and channels are being used, then right click the file in Windows Explorer, then select properties. One of the tabs will list all the information about your audio and video within the AVI file.

[golfbc]

Windows Explorer shows audio as "Unknown Format". I think I will start over and follow the guide using DVD2AVI. I think I may have tried this a few weeks back and had trouble obtaining a good audio track in the final Divx......although when you try to learn this process, and understand (not just push keys), the time seems to just slip away. Any other pearls before I embark on my new mission? Oh, I already have the list of recommended audio cards for Divx (not Blaster 5.1). Final comment...GO UCLA!

[MaTTeR]

Doh!! A UCLA fan:) Actually I was so rooting for you guys last weekend. Great win!

The Unkwown Format means Flask most likely hosed your AC3 file as I suspected. DVD2AVI will do the trick for you. Once you learn the process it becomes second nature but I do agree it's time consuming when you begin.

Where did you find the list of recommended audio cards for Divx? Here's a pearl...avoid Creative cards if you don't want to have to deal with headaches. In my FAQ, I listed a few cards to check out, all have pros and cons but they also work very well for AC3 applications.

Good luck!(and against Mizzou)

[golfbc]

I found them in your FAQ section. I'm not a gamer so I don't need all the bells and whistles just AC3 5.1. Thanks again....you guys are all great. Somehow I envision pocket protectors in abundance at DOOM9.........No response necessary.
:D

[golfbc]

:confused:
OK! I tried DVD2AVI and got an AC3 file playable on several players. I read what documentation there is on DVD2AVI and there are features not explained (IDCT Algorithm,Luminance Filter, etc). Please point me in the right direction. What method do you suggest for demuxing the video? I used to use Flask but you poo pooed the software. SOUND CARD...I found a new Zoltrix Nightingale Pro 6 for $12 on ebay. $10 for shipping because I want in the box not in a plastic bag.
Finally, GO UCL....err....GO UCONN!


;)

[MaTTeR]

My Kats just went down:angry: it was expected though.

Ok, so you have a proper AC3 file it sounds like. You played it I presume? If you have the AC3 then it sounds like all you need to do is encode the video seperately with GordianKnot.

Here's the DVD2AVI guide that explains some of the features-
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/dvd2avi.htm

Here's the Gknot guide that will walk you through how to encode the video-
http://www.doom9.org/gknot-basics.htm
I stronly advise using the Gknot video encoding method as it seems to be very stable and provide outstanding results. If you browse through the other guides from Doom9 you'll see the answers to your IDCT, etc questions. Generally you don't need to use any of the extra options in D2A.

If your just looking for an easy to setup sound card for digital out then I'd go for the Zoltrix card you found. Mine was around $45 USD new:(

EDIT- Hoosiers all the way now:D

[golfbc]

I have good news and bad news. The good news is I worked through Gknot and have much better video than from flask. The audio was AC3 5.1. The bad news is the audio file still comes up unknown in explorer after Vdub. I have tried every filter I have and reregistered the filters. Nothing works in order to play AC3. Of course I still don't have an audio card that can generate the sound.......on order and should be here within one week (Zoltrix Nightingale Pro 6).I'm hoping that this will fix the issue (although I remain skeptical). Hey, I see you answering questions on the PowerDivx website also. You do get around.
Golfbc
:(

[MaTTeR]

I'm everywhere my friend, keeps me on the edge;)

So the video quality is nice ay?:) Gknot is simply the best, end of story.

I see you mentioned Vdub for the AC3 file, well Vdub doesn't support AC3 formats. You need to use NanDub and it should work perfectly for you. Did you mean NanDub? If so, it seems you might still have some sort of issue here. What method did you use to rip the VOB files from disc? SmartRipper or something else? If SmartRipper was used, did you select any stream processing?

One other thing, you should open your AVI file up in NanDub and then under the "Audio" menu select "AC3 Audio". Point to you AC3 file and it should display how many channels the AC3 contains. I'm assuming your already doing this though. The other thing you can try is to open the AC3 up with your favorite player such as BSplayer, PowerDivx or ZoomPlayer. It should play properly. If not the AC3 is definitely corrupt. What movie is this?

Do you have an external amp with coax or TOSLIN connectors? If so, hooking these up will give you very nice DD passthrough for 5.1. Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying to get down to the bottom of the where the AC3 is getting corrupt. One last thing I'll throw out, you could try the AC3 Fix util (http://www.freedivx.it/software/ac3_fix03.zip) to see if it detects bad frames.

[ivan_alias]

There are versions of Vdub that support AC3 audio kicking around. Are you using one of those?

[golfbc]

OK..here is what I did:

Ripped with Smartripper (not direct stream)
Generated audio with DVD2AVI
Followed Gordian Knot guide
Generated a much improved video (took forever)
Muxed the audio video with Nandub
Nandub indicated "AC3 T01 3_2 Channel 448Kbps"
Newer version of VirtualDub with AC3 muxing gave same results
The finished AVI properties with Explorer-Audio "Unknown Format"
I played the AVI with PowerDivx fine (audio specs???)
I played the AVI with PowerDVD and audio was stereo 192Kbps
I played the AVI with Media Player and Audio was 192Kbps
Checked the AC3 file with AC3fix with no errors

The DVD is Star Wars Phantom Menace...a menace for sure.
I can't wait for DD sound with Divx. I have a Pioneer Elite Receiver with THX and EX capability (seperate amp for rear speakers). The house rocks with the actual DVD playing through my home theatre DVD player. If it were not for the DD sound capability of Divx I'd forget about Divx and just make VHS backups.

Everything may be OK...but I'm still skeptical. Invested $140 to add new Video card (TV out)and new audio (5.1 AC3). Hope it was not a waste of time and money.

:confused:

[MaTTeR]

It sounds like you have done everything right then:) As long as NanDub show you the 3_2 338kbps then you know the AC3 is true 5.1 and nothing else.

Which sound card do you currently have installed? I'm guessing the reason the players might be playing 2/0 is because either the filter properties are set to stereo or the filter is detecting your card as only 2 channel(Forcing the downmix). Try this, when playing the movie in PowerDivx, access the AC3 Intervideo filter properties by right clicking on the movie window and then select filter properties. In the dialog that opened you should see the Intervideo filter, double click on it and see if it's set to stereo. If yes, then when you get the Zoltrix card you will need to set this to either SPDIF or 6ch mode respectively.

[golfbc]

The IVAUDIO is actually set to Dolby Surround. The 4,6, and S/PDIF options are all greyed out. Additionally, although greyed out, the Current Audio Track information indicates "Format AC3" and "Attributes 16bit/48k/5.1c". You mentioned 338kbps in your response...the DVD is 448....any significance? If not that's fine.
My card is a Turtle Beach Montego Stereo card.
You have lifted my spirits! I will wait for the new card and hope. Anything you can warn me about the Xoltrix installation? If not then I will get back with you after the card is installed.
:D

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by golfbc
The IVAUDIO is actually set to Dolby Surround. The 4,6, and S/PDIF options are all greyed out. Additionally, although greyed out, the Current Audio Track information indicates "Format AC3" and "Attributes 16bit/48k/5.1c". You mentioned 338kbps in your response

This was a typo on my part. Sorry, I meant 448kbps. The Intervideo filters attempt to read what your sound card capabilities are and then adjusts the filter accordingly. This is why you have been seeing the 2/0 192kbps, you will have full functionality (ie.non-greyed 6ch button) once the Zoltrix card is installed:D

If you plan to use digital SPDIF (ie. TOSLINK connector) from the Zoltrix card to your Pioneer amp, then make sure the Zoltrix sound control panel is set to "2 speaker" mode, it sounds funny but that's the way it works. You will also see a button in the Zoltrix sound panel that enables SPDIF out. That's about all I can think of. It's a pretty straight forward installation but if you have any problems send me a PM and I'll help you out.

[golfbc]

Great news!! I'll get back with you when the sound card is installed.

ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND PATIENCE. YOU AND YOUR COMPADRES DO THIS WORK OUT OF LOVE FOR THE PROCESS. YOU ALL SHOULD GET MORE REWARD THAN JUST A THANK YOU.
;) :cool:

[golfbc]

:angry:
NO LUCK!! The new Zoltrix card is installed and working fine and unfortunately somewhere in the nandub process the bitrate is changed from 448kbps to 192kbps. I know the system is OK as VOB files as well as original DVD's generate 6 channel DD. The audio generated by DVD2AVI is 3_2ch 448Kbps Delay 0ms.ac3. All the filters were downloaded from the GKNOT pack and are registered. If this was my golf game my clubs would be in the lake by now.
golfbc

[MaTTeR]

Hi man,

Sorry to hear the troubles. Typically this is the easiest part. Any chance you can snip about 20-30secs of the AC3 file and make it available to me? DVD2AVi allows you to make a small selection of a VOB using the [] brackets at the bottom of the window. I can test the AC3 here and see what the problem is.

Also, just to verify, does NanDub say build 1852 at the top of the window after you launch it?

Filters from the Gknot pack? The audiofilters.zip is the filters that should be installed. For more info, refer back to the AC3 FAQ at the top of the page. There are 2 specific filters, iviaudio.ax is one of them. I'm sorry if I've ask this before, what OS are you running? Win98 perhaps?

[golfbc]

Matter:
Yes the Nandub message says build 1852. My operating system is Windows 98. I am attaching a snipit of the audio file and the avi file. The audio filters were in the audiofilters.zip file. The iviaudio file is one of the files. This is a puzzlement. Sorry for the delay in responding....good round of golf.
:D

[MaTTeR]

I have a bad feeling your problem lies within Win98SE somehow, maybe with filters.

I just tested your files and even muced them together and they worked perfectly:) That's the good news but the bad news is I'm scratching my head as to your problem.

Per the AC3 FAQ, can you verify the following two questions for me?

__How do I determine which filters are registered and from where?

__How do I make sure the filters are installed properly?

More information on how to do this is in the AC3 FAQ. I just need to make sure GraphEdit is indeed loading the proper filter and from where (ie. c:\windows\system\)

Then we can go from there and I might try to recruit another Win98 user to help us out here.

[golfbc]

I registered the filters using the DOS command and found them all in graphedit direct show filters. Each had a path to windows/system. I don't have Windows 98SE but just Windows 98.
I had never used the DOS command to register the filters before.......I just dragged the "ax" file over the reg file and they auto registered...I thought??
Anyway, I will try to see if anything changes tomorrow. The saga continues.
golfbc

[MaTTeR]

Ok, well the filters are installed correctly it seems.

Very strange problem you have here. If no luck tomorrow then I'll drag another 98 user in to help:)

[golfbc]

This is very interesting. It appears that the three filters were in the windows\system directory as well as the download directory. I removed them from the sys file and reregistered them. Graphedit now points to the download directory I created for the filters. I will try and mux a short avi to see if things get better. I have doubts.
golfbc

[Acaila]

You should try the following to check the bitrate of the audio stream you muxed in.

Open your movie (audio + video) in Nandub. Press "Save WAV" to demux the audio stream. Rename this file from .wav to .ac3 and open this file in Nandub again. If the demuxing went well Nandub will give you the bitrate again.
Is this 448 or 192 again?

If the demuxing gives a broken AC3, you could try running it through ac3fix.

[golfbc]

:D
Acaila/Matter
I am not worthy! The nandub procedure identified the audio in the divx file as 448kbps. So, it appears that I have wasted a great deal of matters time. Please accept my sincere apology. I am still curious why PowerDVD (Dolby Digital Upgrade) and media player both identified the file as two channel stereo. I guess I will just use PowerDivx. However, I am thrilled and embarrased at the same time.:stupid:
You guys are incredible.

[MaTTeR]

Well I'm glad to here Acaila's trick worked:)

Have you tried using BSplayer, Zoom Player or PowerDivx to play the movie? I'm curious if they also report 2/0.

Try one of the players when you get a chance and see what the filter properties say during playback.

Thx for the idea Acaila:D

[Acaila]

:D

[golfbc]

Matter:
PowerDivx setup and filter information:

Setup: AC3 Audio Device-Default Waveout Device
Speaker Mode (5.1)
Compression Mode Normal
Filter Properties (During Playback)
Default Wave Out-wformattag 1
nchannels 2
nsamplespersec 48000
navgbytespersec 192000
nblockalign 4
rate 1.00
iviaudio-2 speaker
dolby surround
4 speaker/6 speaker greyed out
can enable s/pdif out
The problem from day one has been the reported 192000 navgbytespersec.
I get the same thing in PowerDVD and media player.I will try other players if you think it might help.:confused:

[MaTTeR]

This is very interesting. When you playback via SPDIF are you hearing all 6 channels though or is it truly using only 2/0?

If it really is playing back all 6 channels then I don't really have an explanation. Perhaps it's just a cosmetic bug only seen in Win98. I was chatting with Acaila in IRC yesterday and he mentioned seeing something similar on his Win98 machine.

[golfbc]

Give me a couple of days to answer your question. I have cable hanging in the ceiling over my office and family room that needs to be dropped down the wall and connected. Radio Shack loves to see me walk in the door.;)

[golfbc]

I couldn't stand the wait. I hooked some cable up across my floor to test. The signal comes out in dolby surround not 5.1. I tested a vob file from the smartripper process and the receiver recognized it immediately as DD AC3. The vob used the s/pdif out on the zoltrix card. The avi file I played only generated a clicking noise when I tried the s/pdif out connection. I had to run it in another mode to generate audio.I also successfully played the AC3 track generated by DVD2AVI and thr receiver recognized it as DDAC3. Somehow the audio gets messed up in the muxing. 4th and long!

[MaTTeR]

I got to thinking last night...well very little as always:D Anyway I played back a 5.1 movie on my Home Theater PC which as a Zoltrix card. Sure enough during playback the filter indicates 2/0 192Kbps. However, I was getting full 5.1 over SPDIF. This happened on Windows XP.

So you should be getting 5.1 over SPDIF regardless of what the filter indicates during playback. I would suggest you only use PowerDivx or BSPlayer in the time being to test because they are really easy to configure for AC3. The other thing you have to remember to set for SPDIF playback is to use Wave Out in the audio settings within the respective players. Let me know if I need to clarify this more.

[golfbc]

I think about this issue EVERY night. I have tried every combination within PowerDivx and I have the audio set to wave out as default. I have an idea. Could you send me a two minute or so snip from any 5.1 AC3 avi you have? If it plays on my system then we can narrow things down. If it doesn't then another course is prescribed.
Question! The Doom9 filter package unpacks iviaudio version 2.6. It also comes with a compressed version 2.0. Any chance using 2.0 instead could make any difference?
:confused:
NEWSFLASH:
I can't tell you why (changed too many settings to remember where I am) but I just muxed a movie and the audio through S/PDIF was picked up as AC3. Yeah!! The audio was way out of synch but I'd rather have this problem. I'll keep you posted.;)

[MaTTeR]

Originally posted by golfbc
Question! The Doom9 filter package unpacks iviaudio version 2.6. It also comes with a compressed version 2.0. Any chance using 2.0 instead could make any difference?

2.6 should be pretty solid and in fact supports more sound cards. I've used it with the Zoltrix a lot and am currently testing 3.1. I would stick with 2.6 and then try 2.0 as a last resort.

[golfbc]

:devil: We have got this little devil. Everything is now running perfectly. AC3 through S/PDIF using Powerdivx Nextgen is a cinch. I wish I knew what finally solved this dilema but the results are all I care about at the moment.
Thanks for sticking with me through this epic saga. You have a great bedside manner and are a credit to the Doom9ers.:cool:
I hope the other monitors are as patient as you have been........of course I will have more issues!
Go Dodgers:D