Credits are 60MB! How can I get them smaller?

[yosemite]

hi,

I was just encoding my crdits of "The edge", but the filesize is over 60MB :(

What can I do to get a filesize for my credits about ~10MB ?

[khp]

Encode them at a lower bitrate, and use high quantizers.

[DJ Bobo]

10MB is almost impossible.
You can get about 20MB.

Encode the credits with quality based 0%

[yosemite]

ok, got it! thx!

[Acaila]

10MB is almost impossible.

Really? I always get them down to between 5 and 12 MB, 20MB is way too much for my taste.

Just encode them at quantizers of 31, that will help a lot. The best way to get the filesize down is to encode your credits as a seperate file, and apply bilinear resizing and temporal smoother filtering.

[yosemite]

ok, I have done, (with quality 0%, quantizers of 31) but if I want to append the credits to the movie in VD, it tells me that it isnt possible because there are different stream formats!

[DJ Bobo]

@ yosemite
both files must have exactly the same specs: same codec, same resolution, same audio bitrate etc

@ acaila
quality based 0% _IS_ Quantizer 31!
You're just a lucky one, I got always about 18~20Mb :(

[Acaila]

@Bobotns:
Try putting the following filters in your avisynth script file to get the filesize down (in the given order):

TemporalSmoother(6)
Levels(16,1,192,0,255)
BilinearResize(x,y)

[ungeraynrand]

I always encode credits separately by doing the following
USE QUALITY BASED ENCODING AT 0 PERCENT. typically the credit file is crunched into a 7mb file with audio! and it looks decent!!! can u believe it!!???

[yosemite]

I also uses 0 %! - and I've got a 22MB file!

Is that "0 % quality" the only thing that u have changed?

[Vanos_b]

What other settings do you use with DivX5? I encoded the credits of Wild Wild West (4:51) with quantizer 16, Q-Pixel, GMC and B-frames, Preprocessing (Extreme) and NO PSY and I got a 6.6 MB file (with XviD quantizer 16 I got a 15 MB one). It seems that Q-Pixel does a really good job because any other combination of settings withought Q-Pixel gave me a file about 11.3 MB (seems that preprocessing doesn't do anything, at least not good, as the file encoded with preprocessing got about 1% bigger). I have to mention that I don't use Q-Pixel for the actual movie because I think it looks blockier with it, but for credits makes no difference.

[NetSoerfer]

just encoded the end credits of "Les Rivières Pourpres" down to 2,25megs (w/o sound). i've attached a screenshot...

CLI: -b1q 31.0 -key 300 -b -g -q -dr 12,2,2000,10,20 -sc 50 -pq 5
(which should offer any option i used in the divx 5 codec) and bilinear resize. that's all...

soerfer

---
edit: i don't get it - where's my attachment disappeared? has it been too big? does anyone know, what's the max filesize for attachments?

[Acaila]

Attachments don't show until a moderator approves them. Which I've just done :)

[NetSoerfer]

ah... well, i've just upped the file again, this time zipped... *blushing* ;)

[DJ Bobo]

@ Acaila
Your tips don't work, I got also about 20MB.
I found a solution to this: reduce the resolution of the credits.
That means, if I have a 640x272 window, I make the following:

BilinearResize(362,272)
AddBorders(139,0,139,0)

Because: who cares about the aspect of credits!
That brings 10MB for sure!

[Acaila]

@bobotns:
lol!

Why not make them all black while you're at it, it will probably leave you with about 0.5MB total or less :D

[DJ Bobo]

@ Acaila
Well, I thought about that, but that doesn't feel natural you know, I mean, at the end of every film there must be credits.
You know, I watch them until the "DOLBY" symbol comes, I love that part of the credits, there is a lot of cool symbols you know :D

[Acaila]

@bobotns:

I've just ran into someone over at Everwicked.com who also reported those huge credits with my filter combo. I have always used them with DivX4 and after extensive testing these gave me the smallest size. It seems that for DivX5 they don't work in the same way (maybe the pro settings are throwing them off).

I'm running some new tests at the moment with DivX4/5 and XviD to see what effect these filters have on size. I'll let you know when I have the results.

[ungeraynrand]

Please listen.....

This is the most effective method to getting end credits space lowy:
use quality based encoding and drag the slider bar to zero!
this results in a 5-10kb/sec of scrolling credits!

Remember, VBR doesn't work, must use CBR (quality-based).

[Acaila]

That's what we've been talking about all along. Quality 0% = quantizers at 31.

But the point is that's not enough. Credits can be made even smaller with filters...

[NetSoerfer]

uhm... with simple single pass quality 0% i got 2,25megs for the credits of "les rivière pourpres" and 3,6megs for "shadow of the vampire".

okay, maybe i could decrease the filesize even more. but by how much? 10%? 25%? even if i could gain a 50% decrease of the credits' filesize, i'd only gain 1,7megs. and i highly doubt these 1,7megs would make any difference... correct me if i'm wrong but i honestly don't see the sense of reducing the credits' size even more...

soerfer


btw, bobotns suggested resizing the credits and add black borders instead for decreasing the size... what about cropping the credits? crop them to, let's say 2.35:1 instead of 16:9. so crop, add black borders - it wouldn't make the credits less readable but just show them in a smaller "window"...
...just an idea...

[tripnotik]

@Acaila:
Hi, I don't want to hijack katburglar's thread (on everwicked) anymore so I'll post my results here.

So it goes like this:
The test is from the end credits of Rush Hour 2, which are 1:56 minutes long. See the results I got: (all with b-frames, GMC, constant quality = 26 in DivX 5; constant quality 17% in DivX 4)

**********************
BicubicResize(720,304)
DivX5------------------->2.87 MB
DivX4------------------->2.82 MB

BicubicResize(720,304)
Levels(16,1,192,0,255)
DivX5------------------->21.0 MB
DivX4------------------->21.0 MB


BicubicResize(720,304)
TemporalSmoother(6)
DivX5------------------->3.54 MB
DivX4------------------->4.02 MB

BicubicResize(720,304)
TemporalSmoother(6)
Levels(16,1,192,0,255)
DivX5------------------->21.2 MB
DivX4------------------->21.1 MB

TemporalSmoother(6)
Levels(16,1,192,0,255)
BilinearResize(720,304)
DivX5------------------->19.7 MB
DivX4------------------->19.6 MB

So it's more or less the same results with DivX 4.

[Acaila]

@Netsoerfer:

When you use DivX5 with B-frames I'm sure there is no need to use extra filters to get filesize further down, but with other codecs you won't get these small files naturally and you'll need extra help.

@Tripnotic:

You are saying that with DivX5 with B-frames enabled you get about the same filesizes as with DivX4 without B-frames?? That's highly illogical.

I've done my own tests with DivX4 and XviD this weekend (don't have DivX5 installed atm) and have only seen at the most 2MB difference between the various filter combinations. It seems that for black & white credits the Levels() filter increases size and for Color credits it decreases it. TempSmooth always decreases filesize whether it's B&W or Color. But no filters is always bigger than the ones with just the TempSmooth filter.
I can't show you the hard data yet, because I'm at work atm.

[tripnotik]

I'm just posting the results I got for this particular film.

DivX 5 without b-frames, BicubicResize: 3.55 MB

[tripnotik]

I did some other tests, and I found something very very weird. I tested with the same credits as before in DivX 5, with:

BicubicResize(720,304)
Levels(16,1,192,0,255)

Only b-frames on and I tested many quantizers:
31 -> 3.47 MB
30 -> 3.55 MB
29 -> 3.70 MB
28 -> 3.83 MB
27 -> 20.5 MB
26 -> 21.0 MB
4 -> 22.0 MB

Now I don't know what happens at quantizer 27, but it sure ain't right!

[Acaila]

Wow, that looks weird. :)