Movie Half Interlaced

[thebeak40]

I tried backing up Jay and Silent Bob strike back and found that the first disc was fine, but the second disk was jerky.

I checked the vobs with dvd2avi and found the last few were interlaced.

This is mentioned in the dvd2avi forum but I did not understand the fix too well, and it did not seem applicable to dvd2svcd.

Can anyone suggest a fix for this?

[markrb]

Is that the Region 1 US/Canada NTSC version?
I converted that one and it worked fine for me.
There was no interlacing at all.
I didn't change the field order or anything out of the ordinary.

Mark

[thebeak40]

Yes its a region 1 disc. It switches to interlaced about 80% through vob 3. It stays interlaced until the end of the movie.

Any help would be appreciated.

[markrb]

Have you tried to play it on your Stan alone DVD player yet? You may not notice it.

Mark

[thebeak40]

Unfortunately its very noticeable, both on the computer and the tv. Slight jerkiness to the image. Subtle but there. You can watch it, but its annoying:(

[chainsaw135]

Hey i was thinking of buying silent bob..LOL...umm is it worth the effort of backing it up?

[thebeak40]

If you have kids its worth backing everything up:)

[chainsaw135]

No i dont have kids;( i mean i might have some out there LOL no reallly its just me and some girls when i need my services..so i mainly like good adult movies.

[markrb]

IMHO the DVD is worth every penny. I loved the movie and the extras are great. Almost 5 hours of Gag reels, deleted scenes, trailers, etc... 2 disc set in the US BTW.

Do you know if the interlacing starts at a chapter point or not? You might be able to break it into two encodes and do the interlaced stuff seperate. Pain in the butt, but maybe the only way to get a good encode.

Mark

[thebeak40]

Originally posted by markrb


Do you know if the interlacing starts at a chapter point or not? You might be able to break it into two encodes and do the interlaced stuff seperate. Pain in the butt, but maybe the only way to get a good encode.

Mark

Not quite but pretty close. The problem also starts right at the beginning of the second disk, so what you suggest is not too bad.

Can the output files of CCE be joined in virtual dub, renamed, and then crash recovery used?

[DDogg]

What am I missing here? Why don't you just turn on IVTC?

[thebeak40]

Originally posted by DDogg
What am I missing here? Why don't you just turn on IVTC?

How will this affect the parts that are not interlaced, DDogg ?

[DDogg]

Why not try it on a chapter to see. Remember to use another default directory so you don't overwrite your old stuff. Go to the dvd2avi tab and click on IVTC. This is a much slower process than forced film. Actually I am surprised D2S did not pick this up and turn on IVTC IF automatic was selected.

I am assuming this is not straight ntsc "pure" interlace. See the decomb thread in avisynth forum for more information. Everybody should read the whole thread (a BIG one) to more properly understand the terms and the difference between "decombing" and de-interlacing.

[thebeak40]

Before experimenting I checked to see if dvd2avi was on automatic or forced film. It was set to forced film.

I ripped a non-interlaced and interlaced chapter together on automatic. They were both automatically encoded with the IVTC on, slowing the whole encode down by a little less than 50%. This fixed the problem I was having.

I ripped the non-interlaced chapter alone on automatic and it was encoded at regular speed.

Visually, the two encoded files are about the same in quality, but it was hard/impossible to a/b test them.

I hope there isn't a lot of movies like this coming out. Is there any way for dvd2svcd to recognize when to switch the IVTC stuff on and off? I mean, just use the ivtc on the stuff it needs to?

[DDogg]

Thanks for "fessing up" that FF was on instead of auto. That had me worried for a minute. I am glad to see D2S is still smart and worked properly when auto was turned back on.

These type of hybrid movies are rare. I would not let it worry you.

As for your last question, Either FF or IVTC process has to be used in its entirety.

[sandchar99]

I ran into the same problems last night:

Silent Bob and Jay Stike Back, region 1, NTSC

It becomes interlaced at about 3/5 of the way thru and stays that way. DVD2AVI project file wants to do it as IVTC.

It is always good to do a search because this is what I found and will give it a try tonight:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18823

Tweaking the settings of Decomb may be the way to go.

I'm going to try these lines in the avs script and get rid of some of the extra stuff:

Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)

or

Telecide()
Decimate(5)

I'll get back to the forum manana.

PS This may be a dumb question but does anyone know what would happen if just SmartDeinterlace (default settings) is chosen instead of Telecide/Decimate? Would it leave the "Film" sections normal and "fix" the interlaced "NTSC" sections.

[DDogg]

:)I'm going to try these lines in the avs script and get rid of some of the extra stuff:

lol, extra stuff??? I would suggest you let dvd2svcd do it thing and not mess with the process

[sandchar99]

I'm sorry DDogg.

I was referring to the post in the DVD2AVI forum from which I got my info. They are doing DivX stuff and I was really just writing about removing their cropping lines in the avs script.

Just would like to mention that the HTML help file that comes with Donald Graft's Decomb filter mentions these "hybrid" films. It is worth reading by forum members.

[DDogg]

Ok, i understand now, but the advice still stands to use automatic or IVTC for your first run. If you DO have playback problems on a standalone then you might want to try something. Divx folks do not have to worry about pulldown as we do.

If you do want to try the
Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)

make sure and set the dvd2avi tab to off. This will tell it not to run pulldown.

Telecide()
Decimate(5)

Will be what Dvd2SVCD will use normally if IVTC is selected (assuming decomb.dll is chosen in the Inverse telecine path in the frameserver tab).

If you want some good reading then see the decomb thread in the avisynth forum. There you can further understand the misuse of the word "Interlace" that causes so much confusion.

[sandchar99]

Well it seems as good a time as any to see what bitrates my GE 5803 can handle.

Ordinarily on an encode of 105 minutes, not action (---> av. bitrate of approx 1850) to fit on two CDs, I would choose 1 Pass VBR with TemporalSmoother.

But the thought of doing a 1 Pass VBR with IVTC and TemporalSmoother or a 4 pass VBR with IVTC but without TemporalSmoother kills me.

So.....

I'll do a high bitrate CBR with the IVTC (bitrate > 2500) with two soundtracks at 224 and CVD subs to max out 3 cds.

[sandchar99]

Download latest copies of Donald Graft's Decomb Filter (and probably also latest version of BeSweet 1.2)

1. Choose Force Film off, NOT IVTC

2. Edit AVS script after DVD2AVI to reflect:

LoadPlugin("C:\LOCATION OF.....\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\LOCATION OF.....\Decomb.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\LOCATION OF....\*.d2v")
Telecide()
Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50)
BicubicResize(WHATEVER YOUR SETTINGS ARE)

(You must add the Decomb filter plugin LOAD command)

3. Spread it out over 3cds as you are working in 29.97 framerate and have to allocate the bitrate over more frames

4. Chapters at regular intervals since DVD chapters weren't accurate.

My settings were the following:

CBR at 2715, bicubic resize c value 0.60, anti-noise 2, no temporal smoother (would slow things down too much when using decomb filter as well (and the bitrate is already high enough)).

two audio tracks at bitrates of 224 and 128 (director's commentary)

CVD subs

It plays great on both WinDVD and the standalone.

[DDogg]

Your research is not near as valuable without the missing link. That being, what happened, or will happen, if/when you just set FF=auto?

[sandchar99]

When I first did this, I did it as FF auto and I think I got a telecined result although I can't be sure. But, when I did it as FF off, I know for sure, it did not show it as telecined and I had to add the loadplugin...decomb manually.

When I ran DVD2AVI manually and watched the Preview Pane, it was definitely Film for the first half and NTSC for the second half. Sliding the bar over to the second half showed combing on the frames.

Since I still have the VOBs on the hard drive, I will run it again tonight with FF auto - just to see.

PS Nice results at the high bitrate

[sandchar99]

PPS

I yearn for the days when DVD2AVI ran as a full window with Preview pane as opposed to command line because now I often run it again (ie, a second time)when DVD2SVCD pauses to let me preview the AVS file. Running it alone gives me a sense of what is happening in the video. Even though most NTSC, region 1 are Film--sometimes there are surprises.

I know having DVD2AVI run as a windows app caused some problems in previous releases (or was it simply that people couldn't keep their hands off their PC while it was running)but, perhaps, a future feature would be the option to run it either way.
:)

[Apaullo]

I am having a very similar problem right now with Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (Canadian version). Most of the rip looks great (on my standalone AND PC), but there are a few scenes that look jagged and jerky, lines on every movement... sound familiar? (Just a few scenes)!

However I DID have FF set to ON. I am ripping a third time using VStrip, and set FF this time to AUTO. My bet, after what I've read in this thread, is that DVD2SVCD will think this is IVTC and process as such. Right NOW, in the DVD2AVI stage, it says: FILM 88% / NTSC 12%... hmmmmm

[apaullo]

[Apaullo]

Yup... IVTC it is... the movie is 2 hrs, 15 mins.... so I'll let you all know in three days or so how it turned out :)

BTW... is there a DVD2SVCD database somewhere for problem DVD's like this, with custom settings/instructions on how to use DVD2SVCD on them?

[apaullo]

[DDogg]

I hope both of you have time to complete the auto run and let us know how it comes out.

[sandchar99]

DVD2AVI auto run

Excerpted from ....log.txt:

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Program Files\Video\DVD2SVCD107b4\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -IA=1 -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[C:\Movies\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB\Test\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[C:\Movies\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB\VTS_01_1.vob,C:\Movies
\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB\VTS_01_2.vob,C:\Movies\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB
\VTS_01_3.vob,C:\Movies\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB\VTS_01_4.vob,C:\Movies
\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB\VTS_01_5.vob,C:\Movies\JAY_AND_SILENT_BOB
\VTS_01_6.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Hybrid Film activated. IVTC will beformed and will slow down the entire process!
Framerate: 29970
DVD2AVI processing done.

This gave the following line:

...
Decimate(5)
...

On my first attempt of this flick (before the eventual success), because I saw that IVTC was going to be performed, I checked IVTC instead of FF off. And strangely enough DVD2SVCD performed pulldown. The muxed result, obviously, was audio/video asynch. With FF off and insterting the loadplugin....decomb, Telecide(), Decimate(mode=1,threshold=50) I got a perfectly good looking video with audio synched. The only problem were chapters that were off. I have since redone from SVCD authoring with fixed chapters. I know I have obsessive/compulsive behavior but I wanted a great result.

Three questions:
1) Which Decimate setting is best or most appropriate for "hybrid" films. Should default be mode=1,threshold=50?
2) Why was pulldown run when IVTC was checked and DVD2AVI set up project file to run at 29.97 fps?
3) With FF off (and no pulldown run), why did DVD2SVCD run chapters at framerate appropriate for a 23.976?

[Apaullo]

Success!! IVTC, although an 11-hour, 4-pass encode (total SVCD creation time on my Athlon XP 1700+: 16 hours, 17 mins) finalley produced a perfect picture throughout Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me.

[apaullo]

[chainsaw135]

I just left dvd2svcd on automatic everything turned out fine.

[fuct]

Similar to chainsaw135's experience, I had no probs with this using DVD2SVCD, as always (I guess were the lucky ones).

[Apaullo]

I should have too, but I thought FF turned ON would be a natural for any movie rip. Learn as we go I guess .... :)

As for true "video" sources, like special features with documentaries and such, where the interview is shot with a video camera rather than a movie camera, I've had mixed results. So far most people have suggested unchecking "Upper Field First" for CCE - that works to an extent, but not perfectly. Using "Smart Deinterlace" tends to fix things up a bit too, but again: not perfect. At first I thought these "jitters" arose because Pulldown wasn't invoked, until I learned what Pulldown actually does. Is CCE NOT the right encoder to use for true "video" sources?

apaullo