Upmix 2.0 -> 5.1

[raquete]

where i can download 'FreeSurround' ?

[tebasuna51]

https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_fsurround

[raquete]

:thanks:

[raquete]

Tebasuna51,

have a way to save the result of 'upmix to 5.1' from foobar as 5.1 wave file?

[tebasuna51]

No problem, select WAV when click in Output Format

[raquete]

in Preferences DSP Managers, in active DSP i load and saved the 5.1 Upmix preset but using 'right click' for optional options nothing happens
In Preferences, Advanced, Converter i can't find how to adjust.

I can't find where is the "Converter Setup"

Resume: you can be sure that i don't know what i'm doing!

[hello_hello]

raquete,
Load a track or tracks into a playlist.
Right click and select Convert.
At the bottom of the list of any conversion presets shown in the popup menu, you'll see three dots. Left click on the dots to open the converter setup.

On the left side of the converter setup window there'll be conversion presets, assuming you have any saved. A conversion preset/configuration is a combination of the items on the right. Output Format, Destination, Processing and Other.

If you click on the Processing link, it'll open a DSP configuration the same as the DSP configuration in preferences for playback.
The saved DSP presets are shared so they can be loaded for playback and/or loaded when converting. That is... you could create a playback DSP preset and that preset can also be loaded as a DSP preset for conversion.

Have a look at the pics of the portable FB2K I linked to in your other thread (the link takes you to a thread at VideoHelp). On the toolbar at the top there's a dropdown box labelled DSP on the left. It only changes the playback DSPs. If you know how to edit the FB2K DUI, you can add the DSP Switcher to your configuration and do what I did... Save a DSP preset that actually has no DSPs, so the preset could be called, believe it or not, "No DSP", and selecting it in the DSP Switcher's dropdown list ensures there's no DSPs on playback.

DSP1.png (https://files.videohelp.com/u/210984/DSP1.png)
DSP2.png (https://files.videohelp.com/u/210984/DSP2.png)

[raquete]

I could create a DSP preset for playback and foobar play the stereo source as 5.1 but i could not use this DSP preset for conversion.

In left side of Converter Setup - Overview - the 'Saved Presets' are 'empty', only have the (default) option. :confused: don't appear the "upmix to 5.1" option that i saved before.

In 'Current Settings' all is right!

I don't know where is the DSP option to choose as showing in DSP1.png and don't know too where is the 'Processing as showing in the DSP2.png

[hello_hello]

In the converter setup window, any presets saved and displayed on the left are full conversion presets. They include any DSP configurations, but not just the DSPs. They also include the selected encoder, which you can configure via the Output Format link, but they're not buttons on the right. You can click on the "Output Format" or "Processing" text etc to open the appropriate configuration. It possibly a bit deceiving that they're underlined text rather than buttons, but they're clickable. Once you've configured the options on the right, they all become part of a conversion preset when you save one.

When you click on Output Format you're navigating into the configuration for just the encoder itself. Of course you can create encoder presets too, and the chosen encoder preset is also saved as part of a full conversion preset.

Just click on the text where the red cursor is in this screenshot (in the converter setup window) to open the window containing the DSP configuration.
DSP3.png (https://files.videohelp.com/u/210984/DSP3.png)

In screenshot DSP2 there's text in a drop down box labelled DSP Chain Presets near the bottom. The text is "No DSP" in the screenshot. If there's saved DSP presets they'll appear in that drop down list. To save a new DSP preset, add whatever DSPs you wish to use in either of the DSP configuration windows (playback or converter), configure the DSPs if necessary, then type a name for the new DSP preset directly into the dropdown box. If it's not already clickable, the save button will then become clickable and you can use it to add a new DSP preset to the list.
You don't have to save the current DSP configuration as a preset to use it, but if its something you'll use regularly and/or it contains multiple DSPs that need to be configured, being able to save a configuration as a preset comes in handy.

[tebasuna51]

I can't find where is the "Converter Setup"

Resume: you can be sure that i don't know what i'm doing!
Sorry, I thought you already had a 5.1 conversion preset set up.

Thanks, hello_hello, for the detailed explanations.

To complicate matters further, I should mention that my 5.1 Upmix conversion preset doesn't use Fre Surround, but rather the VI VST plugin (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1640451#post1640451) (see image).

I only use Fre Surround for Dolby ProLogic sources in my DPL->5.1 preset, with my recommended configuration for DPL sources (second image)

[raquete]

@Tebasuna51,
thank you for this new thread!:)

I really don't like of the results from V.I ! never liked. I still don't tested 'Free Surround' but surely i will.

Yes, i have 5.1 conversions presets set ups, not only one but dozen! I only want to learn how to do that with Foobar to check the result.

@hello_hello
Thank you too for extreme good will. :)
I will follow your 'guide' in post #9

Thank to both of you. :thanks:

[raquete]

Playing stereo source to 5.1 in foobar

https://i.postimg.cc/gk3YM4py/Foobar-PLAYING-Stereo-To-5-1.png (https://postimages.org/)

Trying to save the stereo source to 5.1

https://i.postimg.cc/BQBrLzsz/Foobar-Conerter-Setup-Saved-presets.png (https://postimages.org/)

Then, i'm still stucked with the images DSP1.png, DSP2.png, DSP1.png

I really don't know how to find where this adjusts are in Foobar!

And thank goodness you are keeping me busy and off the streets...(quote from Lathe) :D

[tebasuna51]

In your second image I see:
1) Output Format WAV (ok)
2) Destination (I don't see, but you need fill with a destination folder for the wav file)
3) Processing (you need specify the DSP to use, and configure it, see my images for VI or Free Surround)
4) Other (Do nothing, Tags aren't recomended for WAV files)

5) Press Save, and put a name, to create the Preset to be used after.

6) Press Convert to create the wav file

[tebasuna51]

The standard Foobar DSP 'Upmix to 5.1' can't be configured and I don't know how work, but there are other DSP 'Channel Mixer' and can be configured like VI.

I never tested these DSP's

[raquete]

Tebasun51,

Look this screenshot from foobar page: https://www.foobar2000.org/images/screenshots-windows/converter-1.webp
In my foobar only appear the (default) option, nothing more ! (remains exactly the second image that i posted in #12 )

I don't have Channel Mixer in the list and in foobar components page i can't find too.

in this place have a short lesson about how to use Channel Mixer: http://eolindel.free.fr/foobar/channel.shtml

Even in Hydrogenaudio page of "Channel Mixer (foo_channel_mixer)", the links to download are not working.

The blessed God show me this page where have the download of "foo channel mixer For Windows" : https://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Audio/Audio-Plugins/foo-channel-mixer.shtml

Now i'll try the 'Channel Mixer' option.

cheers. :)

edit:

I can't find a working 'Channel Mixer' DSP anywhere; the only one I managed to download gave me this warning:
"Failed to load DLL: foo_channel_mixer.dll
Reason: Not a valid Win32 application."

Could someone please send me the 'Channel Mixer .dll ?

[tebasuna51]

In my foobar only appear the (default) option, nothing more ! (remains exactly the second image that i posted in #12 )
I created the converter presets myself—see point 5 of my previous post—using "Save."

Could someone please send me the 'Channel Mixer .dll ?
I have the 0.9.6.7 version:

[tebasuna51]

If you get used to using foobar2000, there is also the foo_dsp_TripleStereo (https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_TripleStereo) DSP, which is equivalent to CenterCut.

[raquete]

Edited:
'Channel mixer' still don't work in my new version of foobar!
"foo_dsp_TripleStereo DSP" was posted in components folder but don't appear inside foobar!

But have very good news:

Following your picture in post #13, i got the desired result with "FreeSurround"
Tested with "Upmix To 5.1" works too.

Thanks for the entire guide and Help, tebabuna51. and thanks to Hello_Hello for great hints! ✨

[tebasuna51]

If you have Foobar2000 64 bits you need https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_trifield

And I can't found foo_channel_mixer 64 bits, only 32 bits.

And the FreSurround 64 bits is different (see the configuration in my previous post), and I can't recommend it to recover DolbyProLogic ac3 files.
Maybe this can replace the foo_channel_mixer but I don't know how configure it to recover DPL-II encoded AC3 (see the image)

I have 2 Foobar2000 portable versions installed (32 and 64 bits) and I always can use v2.1.5 [x86]

[hello_hello]

I think the channel mixer is buggy with some configurations, unless I'm doing something silly.
When it's set to output 5.1ch and the source is 5.1ch, the LFE channel still exists but it's empty. It might be by design, although it seems unintuitive to me, but you have to check the Use SubWoofer option under the SubWoofer tab for the LFE channel to contain audio.

https://i.postimg.cc/149MtmML/1.png (https://postimg.cc/149MtmML)

And when downmixing 5.1ch to 5.0ch, the center channel appears to end up in the LFE channel.

https://i.postimg.cc/rz8gmVQL/2.png (https://postimg.cc/rz8gmVQL)

I don't use the channel mixer much, so maybe I'm missing something.

[tebasuna51]

To round out the options for 2.0 to 5.1 upmixing using Foobar2000, I am attaching the configuration settings for the 32-bit Channel_Mixer and the 64-bit FreeSurround.

Feel free to try them out (I have barely used them myself, and as hello_hello notes, they may contain bugs) and recommend settings, though obviously, results will vary depending on the source material.

I am also attaching the 32-bit version of FreeSurround in case anyone needs to recover DPL-II audio.

We also want to remind you of other 2.0-to-5.1 methods (commercial ones or old ones that may be hard to find) listed in the "GUIDE LIST: Stereo-to-Surround Conversion Guides (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83752)" thread, as well as the ffmpeg 'surround' filter (https://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-filters.html#surround), which has already been discussed in other threads (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=2032951#post2032951).

[raquete]

@hello_hello
why ouput channels 6 don't appear the LFE when playing?

In output channels 5 maybe unchecking the LFE option the 'C' can appear (not grayed) to give the desired result.

If don't work, copy one of the tracks in the result, create an empty channel, load the track that you copied, reduce the level from -90 to -120dBs and open a wave editor with 5 tracks.
Add the empty track and move this empty track to be below the Center channel.
You'll will have a 5.1 channels that will play 5.0 where the LFE have empty sound where all others channels will be in the right order.

@tebasuna5
I'm using foobar 64 bits.
The information when open Foobar:
"Failed to load component: C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components\foo_dsp_fsurround_035.dll
Reason: Not a valid Win32 application."
and
"Failed to load component: C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components\foo_channel_mixer.dll
Reason: Not a valid Win32 application."

i have a 'foo_dsp_fsurround.dll' that is working. Is equal picture in the right of your post (but is not the 0.35 version.)

Cheers for you all!

[tebasuna51]

@tebasuna5
I'm using foobar 64 bits.
The information when open Foobar:
"Failed to load component: C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components\foo_dsp_fsurround_035.dll
Reason: Not a valid Win32 application."
and
"Failed to load component: C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components\foo_channel_mixer.dll
Reason: Not a valid Win32 application."

i have a 'foo_dsp_fsurround.dll' that is working. Is equal picture in the right of your post (but is not the 0.35 version.)

Of course, the components I’ve attached here only work with older 32-bit versions of foobar2000 (I recommend version 2.1.5). (https://www.foobar2000.org/old)

I’ve attached them because they are hard to find online.

The current version of FreeSurround seems to replace the old channelmixer, but I don't know how to configure it to recover 5.0 stereo audio encoded as DPL; that is why I recommend a separate (portable) installation of the 32-bit foobar2000 if you need that function.

Regarding the LFE issue:
- Converting stereo to 5.1 is generally not recommended—5.0 is preferred—except in your specific case, where your amplifier lacks HDMI but has a dedicated analog input for that channel.

- In the version of FreeSurround you have, you need to check the "Redirect bass to LFE" option to get the bass (within the specified frequency ranges) on that channel. That worked for me.

- It is well known that Dolby never recommends using the LFE channel when encoding to Dolby Pro Logic; therefore, it should never be recovered as 5.1, but rather as 5.0 (except in your case).

[raquete]

Yes,
I check 'Redirect bass to LFE' and adjust LFE low end to 25Hz Nd LFE upper end to 150 Hz.
For now, those are the adjusts that i made and testing but i will test changing Center image, Front and Rear seprataion to see what will happen.

The overall levels in the result are too low even using 'defaults' adjusts, i don't know how to adjust the levels output using FreeSurround.
To recover the general level, is needed to load in WaveEditor(Audacity) and amplify or normalize to the 'original' level of the source used.


A question: Is possible install Foobar 32 in one folder and Foobar 64 in another folder and choose what version to use?
i did that with Audacity, i have 32 bit in one folder and 64 bit versions in another folder installeds and both versions work.

Again, thank you for your hints Teabasuna51. :)

[tebasuna51]

A question: Is possible install Foobar 32 in one folder and Foobar 64 in another folder and choose what version to use?


Yes I have that installed, but I always use portable install to have the settings in each folder instead use the Wimdows Registry

[raquete]

Yes I have that installed, but I always use portable install to have the settings in each folder instead use the Wimdows Registry

Good, i will do that. Thank you!

[raquete]

Tebasuna51

To be fair, the 'upmix to 5.1' is much better than 'FreeSurround' because it preserves the original source's amplitude,
though I add the LFE and modify the rear left and rear right channels to achieve the desired result.
The L, R, and C channels of the 'upmix to 5.1' are excellent.
:)