DgIndexNV audio no extension

[StainlessS]

DgIndexNV ver$ 255, x64,

Showing 2nd audio stream, track 3, (clickMe)
https://i.postimg.cc/4HR5WVF8/Dg-Index-NV.jpg (https://postimg.cc/4HR5WVF8)
ie
3: A_MS/ACM 48000 6ch "eng"
is extracted without any extension (however it is in this instance 4.6GB in size, maybe that is part of the problem).
"SomeMovie_t00_track3_eng_DELAY 0ms"

Has been like this for at least several versions, not usually a problem, I just choose a different stream.

EDIT: When playing the MKV in Potplayer, it shows this track as type "ExtPCM", dont know if there is a valid extension for this >4GB audio file.
(".ExtPCM" dont work as an extension)

EDIT: MediaInfo on the audio channels of the MKV

Audio #1
ID : 2
ID in the original source medium : 4352 (0x1100)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 625 MiB (3%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #2
ID : 3
ID in the original source medium : 4353 (0x1101)
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : A_MS/ACM / 00000001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 608 kb/s / 4 608 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 30.000 FPS (1600 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.40 GiB (19%)
Title : Surround 5.1
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

Audio #3
ID : 4
ID in the original source medium : 4359 (0x1107)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Format settings : Dolby Surround
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 188 MiB (1%)
Title : Stereo
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : Blu-ray

[Columbo]

Can you use mkvtoolnix to split a 50MB MKV from the start of your original file and then upload it somewhere for us? Thank you.

Probably it's a matter of tagging "A_MS/ACM" versus "A_PCM/INT/LIT". You can test this by modifying your source MKV header to change the Codec ID from "A_MS/ACM" to "A_PCM/INT/LIT". Then see if the track gets demuxed with an extension. E.g.:

mkvpropedit "file.mkv" --edit track:2 --set codec-id=A_PCM/INT/LIT

I will notify Rocky about this issue. Likely he just needs to add that tag in the test for PCM audio type.

EDIT: Rocky informs me that A_MS/ACM is not currently known by DGIndexNV. He can fix that if you provide a sample.

EDIT2: Rocky said he can use mkvpropedit to set A_MS/ACM in one of his files, so a sample is not strictly needed.

[Columbo]

Please test this:

https://rationalqm.us/misc/DGIndexNV_SS.exe

Upon opening the MKV file, if an audio track is marked A_MS/ACM, then it is set to A_PCM/INT/LIT. Demuxing then proceeds as usual for PCM tracks.

[oniiz86]

@Columbo There was a lot of discussion around this LPCM codec variant being unsupported, MakeMKV chose A_MS/ACM as its default LPCM choice, https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2530, the MKV header adjustment you mentioned does the trick for hardware-based players to ensure playback but it has been said that A_MS/ACM offers better support for multi-channel LPCM as it preserves the correct channel mapping order using the wavex "Wave Extensible Format" profile, the MakeMKV developer had said it best as to why MakeMKV was defaulting to the wavex profile for multi-channel LPCM, https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=52077#p52077 "Because there is no way to put channel mask (what channels are present and in what order) into LPCM container. A 4-channel audio may be 3.1(L+C+R+LFE) or 2/2 (L+R+BL+BR). If you are willing to assume that every 6-channel audio is 5.1 then there is no need for wavex header. This is the only reason."

[StainlessS]

"so a sample is not strictly needed."
Here anyway 50MB opening sample [33 seconds duration, I had to figure out how to use MkvToolnix thingy]
https://www.mediafire.com/file/3r3aeexd73rhf46/SomeMovie_t00+(2)-001.7z/file

Testing DGIndexNV_SS.Exe thingy on full original MKV, produces 4.6GB *.wav file, but seems to be only 12:20 in length (in VLC or PotPlayer),
but MediaInfo on same *.wav produces this

General
Complete name : D:\___BLURAY\T0\SomeMovie_t00_track3_eng_DELAY 0ms.wav
Format : Wave
Format settings : PcmWaveformat
File size : 4.40 GiB
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 4 608 kb/s

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 608 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.40 GiB (100%)

ReportBy : MediaInfoLib - v23.07
CreatedOn : UTC 2025-12-12 06:54:00


EDIT: Should type *.wav extension for file >4GB be *.W64 ??? (big file RIFF format, however that is achieved)

Maybe the seeming 12:20 playtime in VLC or Potplayer is that of approx 4.6GB - 4GB duration [Least significant 32 bits chunk sizes].

EDIT: I think NicAudio may load *.W64 audio samples >4GB.

EDIT: Rename of extension from *.wav to *.W64 still shows 12:20 playtime in VLC or Potplayer.

EDIT: VDub2 has a Hex Editor with RIFF parser
https://i.postimg.cc/KKwbpLsD/VDub2-Hexed-00.jpg (https://postimg.cc/KKwbpLsD)

EDIT:
Extracted WAV file in MediaInfo

General
Complete name : D:\___BLURAY\T0\SomeMovie_t00_track3_eng_DELAY 0ms.wav
Format : Wave
Format settings : PcmWaveformat
File size : 4.40 GiB
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 4 608 kb/s

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 608 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.40 GiB (100%)

ReportBy : MediaInfoLib - v23.07
CreatedOn : UTC 2025-12-12 07:52:41


WAV renamed to W64

General
Complete name : D:\___BLURAY\T0\SomeMovie_t00_track3_eng_DELAY 0ms .W64
Format : Wave
Format settings : PcmWaveformat
File size : 4.40 GiB
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 4 608 kb/s
FileExtension_Invalid : act at9 wav

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 2 h 16 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 608 kb/s
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 4.40 GiB (100%)

ReportBy : MediaInfoLib - v23.07
CreatedOn : UTC 2025-12-12 07:51:45

[Columbo]

@StainlessS

Thank you for the information.

First, DGIndexNV uses wav when demuxing MKV and w64 when demuxing TS. It's not significant here but could be fixed.

I processed your sample and I get a 33.833 sec duration. It shows that duration in everything I tried.

If this happens only with the full MKV file I'll have to ask you to provide the whole thing. If I PM you an FTP account can you upload it for me please? Thank you.

@oniiz86

Yes, thank you. If a custom channel order was set and it differs from what is typical for A_PCM/INT/LIT, then there could be an issue.

[StainlessS]

YouI processed your sample and I get a 33.833 sec duration. It shows that duration in everything I tried.
MeHere anyway 50MB opening sample [33 seconds duration, I had to figure out how to use MkvToolnix thingy]
Yep, same as me.

MeTesting DGIndexNV_SS.Exe thingy on full original MKV, produces 4.6GB *.wav file, but seems to be only 12:20 in length (in VLC or PotPlayer)
Ie, the full MKV, I've made a little room in PM whotsit, send me FTP Acc please,
may take some time [EDIT: ~24GB], I think my upload speed is pretty crap on my bad signal 5G router acc.

[Columbo]

Thank you. I PM'ed you the FTP details. Been having some issues with PMs so please let me know if you got it.

[StainlessS]

Yep, got it.
Currently 05:01:28 elapsed, 21:58:59 left (predicted), (18.9% @ 252.3KiB/s, ie godawful slow).

[Columbo]

Thank you. Patience is a virtue...they say.

[Columbo]

Looks like your upload got interrupted. :( Hopefully you can resume it.

[StainlessS]

Speed had dropped to 75KB/s and 35Hours+ remaining, so, I reset my router hoping would restart ok, but no go, and existing file on server deleted.
I'm gonna have a go again in the pub, see if they allow good upload speed.
(am also currently doing max compression in 7zip for smaller file, also PW added to 7z, will inform PW in PM if success, clue=6 letter simple variation of your FTP pw).

EDIT: If fail in pub, I'll re-do on another machine, dont like occupying main use machine for this.
(I will not mind too much leaving for several days on another m/c if necessary)

EDIT: Org=23.3 GB, 7z=21.1GB.

[StainlessS]

Just spend some time looking for my monster power bank, found it but a little late to try in pub now, will try in morning (maybe).

[Columbo]

If push comes to shove I'll send you my snail mail and you can send a disk to me. Might be faster than your upload speed. ;)

[StainlessS]

Thanx, but with a bit of luck I can do it from pub,
been upping for 49 mins, and says 9.2%, 8:05:00 todo, seems that I'll be in pub for some time.
I might be able to do it faster, I limited to 1000KiB/s, dont wanna get kicked out [EDIT: or speed crippled] for overdoing it.
lets hope we dont need snail mail :)

[Columbo]

OK, well, at least alternate a pint of beer and a pint of water. I want you to get home safely!

I've got 9.3 GB so far. Fingers crossed.

BTW, after you stopped the first upload, I got a 13 GB partial (lost all the cues so slow seeking). Was able to demux it and the audio time was an hour and something (way more than 12 minutes). Maybe you are right that the 4 GB stuff is relevant. Let's see.

EDIT: Up to 11.5 GB now. You're gonna be drinking and throwing darts for a few more hours. I really appreciate your efforts here. What is your drink of choice? I could paypal you some $$$. PS: When I drink cold beer in our current 0 deg F I get shivers. Should I worry?

[Columbo]

Looks like you stopped it.

[StainlessS]

Took your good advice and alternated Ale (Speckled Hen) and Lager (Carlsburg, contains water as a main ingredient),
Got up to 13.9GB and could not resist upping limit a bit more to 2000KB/s (2MB/s) and I think that broke it,
I continued (although it {at some point} showed some error type messages) and after about another 5GB upped, it
was still not showing anything additional after refresh of directories, dont know where the additional bytes were disappearing to.
Got a bit pissed off that I was probably wasting my time, so stopped the upload and left the pub {leaving a complete untouched pint of lager}.
I also had basket of boneless chicken bits and strips with chips, coleslaw, and barbercue source.
Later I got a Chicken Tikka Masala with garlic nan bread and 6 popadoms, and that last lager that I left.
I was a bit knackered b'cos I did not get to bed till after about 4:30AM, and was afraid of falling asleep in there.

Anyways, I've fired up one of my little 1 Litre Lenovo machines, i5-11400T {35W TDP} and connected via ethernet (I usually only bother with Wifi)
and installed Filezilla on Linux Mint, and without removing any speed limiting am just gonna let it run till done.

Lets hope 3rd (or is it 4th) time a charm.

EDIT:
Its giving me scary messages again,

Response: 421 Timeout - try typing a little faster next time
Error: GnuTLS error -110 in gnutls_record_recv: The TLS connection was non-properly terminated.
Status: Server did not properly shut down TLS connection
Error: Could not read from socket: ECONNABORTED - Connection aborted
Error: Disconnected from server
Status: Resolving address of ftp.rationalqm.us

But it seems to be continuing just fine, 5.3%, ~1.2GB.

EDIT: On all connections so far, I have received warnings about invalid certificates for you server.

EDIT: ~14 hours predicted remaining, I'm off to bed.

[StainlessS]

Well it completed OK this time, sent pm with pw.
About 9 hours total, easy peasy.
:)

[Columbo]

Took your good advice and alternated Ale (Speckled Hen) and Lager (Carlsburg, contains water as a main ingredient) Looks like you got home OK so oil's well that ends well. I used to drink Carlsberg when I lived in the UK. It's drinkable. I used to like lager and lime too, with the Rose's lime juice. My first night at boarding school in Elstree we snuck out and somehow got our hands on a bottle of Spanish [spa] brandy. Ha ha, the prefects were sleeping soundly and we were rollicking. That wasn't my worst episode though. ;)

I also had basket of boneless chicken bits and strips with chips, coleslaw, and barbercue source.
Later I got a Chicken Tikka Masala with garlic nan bread and 6 popadoms, and that last lager that I left. Wow, I put you through hell. Still, I thought the pubs had last call at 2:00am but maybe I'm remembering wrong.

On all connections so far, I have received warnings about invalid certificates for your server. Yeah, admin's been meaning to look into that. Seems harmless though.

Back to beeswax. I downloaded and unzipped. Then I demuxed it with DGIndexNV. Got a 4.6 GB wav file. Then I opened it in MPC-HC and it showed a length of 12 mins 20.109 secs. So I've duplicated your issue. Yay! It's weird though because mediainfo shows the duration as 2 hour 16 mins.

Investigations are underway. Thank you so much for your gutsy determination in completing the mission. Iron Man has nothing on you, bro!

[StainlessS]

I thought the pubs had last call at 2:00am
Sorry, I meant I got to bed at 4:30 AM the night before, so I was tired in the pub [left pub about 9:00 pm].

I had the Chicken Tikka Masala to try keep me awake, I was not really hungry.
I turned 70YO a couple of months back, my sleep patterns are all to hell since I dont gotta get to bed nor get up from bed for anybody or anything :)
[EDIT: I retired at 66]

Glad issue was successfully duped,

havva guddun :)

[Columbo]

Alrighty. Mapping to A_PCM/INT/LIT is the problem. It's not a correct operation. We have to handle A_MS/ACM by writing a proper RF64 header derived from the codec private data.

I've got the skeleton done with opening the .w64 file, writing of the data, and closing the file. I have to implement StartRF64() and EndRF64() to add the RF64 wrapper around the data. Then we should be good to go.

SS, you seem to be in the UK, maybe London or Oxford? Enquiring minds are enquiring.

[StainlessS]

Yes UK, 1st guess correct.

I have to implement StartRF64() and EndRF64() to add the RF64 wrapper around the data.
Sounds good. (Dont know if VDub Riff parse will parse that RF64 whotsit).

[Columbo]

I used to hang out in Hampstead and Cambridge.

Good news! I have it working. It demuxes to a playable file with the correct duration. While getting it working, I found other places in DGIndexNV audio demuxing that fail at >4GB. Gonna fix those and then give you a test version later today.

[Columbo]

Alrighty then. Please test this:

https://rationalqm.us/misc/DGIndexNV_SS.exe

That was a fun problem.

[StainlessS]

Thanks,
Givvus at least a week (maybe two or three) and I'll test a bucket load of mkv's, will post back after that.

[Columbo]

OK thank you. I don't want to wait 3 weeks to make a release so I'll test with the files I have available and make a release. Then if you subsequently find any issues we can slipstream it.

[StainlessS]

Sounds good.
(I'm doin a bucket load BD anyways, midway thro collection redo b'cos of proc script & encoder update)

[StainlessS]

OK, found another disk with A_MS/ACM, O/P WAV seems just fine, 4.6GB. (Blood Diamond).

[Columbo]

Sweet, thank you.

[StainlessS]

OK, found another disk with A_MS/ACM, O/P WAV seems just fine, 3.13GB, ie below 4GB. (eXistenZ).

[Columbo]

Thank you for testing the <4GB case. I use RF64 for everything, regardless of size. Theoretically some very old apps won't like that, but let's see.

[StainlessS]

Have found no further instances of A_MS/ACM as yet (still busy doin' tests).

However, I just noticed this from our resident audio expert, {thought that you might find of interest if you dont already got similar},

If you want change only the channelmask of a wav file you can use 'LeeWav.exe' included in the attached file in https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=2017560#post2017560.
It read the wav header and can suggest available channel mask to change. You can test some values and need to confirm the change like you can see in the image:

[clickme]
https://i.postimg.cc/1fdHZYpZ/Lee-Wav.jpg (https://postimg.cc/1fdHZYpZ)

[Columbo]

Looks useful for testing and debugging. Thank you.

[StainlessS]

Still testin' out bucket load of disks, no further observations to report.
EDIT: Bout 4/5ths done.

[Columbo]

Good to hear, thank you sir.

[StainlessS]

Kill Bill 1, A_MS/ACM 48000 6ch "eng", default (1st) audio channel [3.58GB], demux OK.

EDIT:
ResidentEvil-Apocalypse, as above, 2nd audio track, 3GB, OK.

[Columbo]

OK, OK, what could be better. Thank you sir.