Dull colors even after removing DoVi

[Satya]

I'm a newbie to video formats, almost all new releases are including Dovi with HDR10 nowadays, however, the problem is that my display only supports HDR10 and for some reason, these versions are very dim in color, so I followed a thread and removed Dolby vision, with Dovi scripts, but then even though the metadata is removed and only HDR 10 is present, the colors are still exactly the same, dull and unwatchable, how do I fix it?

please help me as soon as possible, it's been months without any progress.

attached an image to refer
https://ibb.co/7thsWmgs

[bredboi]

if your display doesn't support Dolby Vision, removing the DV metadata won't change anything in this case, because your display is already falling back to the HDR10 layer to begin with.

I'm going to need more info - what source are you using as your "actual colours"?

[Z2697]

You don't need to remove the metadata, you can just tall the player to ignore it.
And if your reference is some 1080p SDR BD released with the UHD BD, then there's probably different tonemapping (algorithms, settings, etc.) or even grading (not very likely).
(But of course they are still better references than previous 1080p BD version of old titles)

Just form a quick glance at your comparison, I think if you lower the target peak brightness it will look closer.

[Satya]

if your display doesn't support Dolby Vision, removing the DV metadata won't change anything in this case, because your display is already falling back to the HDR10 layer to begin with.

I'm going to need more info - what source are you using as your "actual colours"?

the "actual colors" is the sdr version of the same

[Satya]

You don't need to remove the metadata, you can just tall the player to ignore it.
And if your reference is some 1080p SDR BD released with the UHD BD, then there's probably different tonemapping (algorithms, settings, etc.) or even grading (not very likely).
(But of course they are still better references than previous 1080p BD version of old titles)

Just form a quick glance at your comparison, I think if you lower the target peak brightness it will look closer.

how do i do that, im sorry, really a noob in this area, and if its tonemapping, how do i change it to look atleast remotely close as the sdr reference? both screenshots are 4k, one is sdr the other with dovi/hdr10,
and no, its not BD, and about the peak brightness, where do i find it?

[GeoffreyA]

Usually in the player settings. Look for nits. If you can upload a short sample, do so. Some UHD material is graded darker when compared to the SDR.

[bredboi]

in many cases, the HDR version isn't necessarily graded darker, but the SDR version is being displayed brighter. most SDR grades are performed at 100 nits (in a dim room) yet most consumer displays are, by default, usually set to 200-300 nits in SDR mode to account for the fact that a lot of people are going to be watching it in a brighter room.

however, HDR modes are all colour managed in some way and the HDR10 format isn't really designed to have its brightness altered upon playback, so where both images looked almost identical in the grading suite, at home the SDR version can have brighter shadows/midtones because the SDR version is being brightened to your preference and the HDR version isnt.

[GeoffreyA]

I agree, and meant that SDR tends to be too bright, so it can be misleading using it as a reference. I think today's HDR grades of older films have shown us how over-bright the older versions often were.

[Z2697]

Wait, are you sure you got dual layer Dolby Vision from WEB source?
I mean, not profile 5? (profile 8 is single layer too, I know)

[Z2697]

I just assumed from the comparison image that you are watching HDR tonemapped and forgot to read the actual text...
If its HDR mode and it looks like that then there's basically no normal way to adjust it.

Dolby Vision metadata doesn't really matter in this case unless the peak brightness of the scene is above your display's.

[Satya]

Wait, are you sure you got dual layer Dolby Vision from WEB source?
I mean, not profile 5? (profile 8 is single layer too, I know)


now its getting trickier for some reason, handbrake shows dovi profile 8.1 and when i used dovi scripts it showed two layers, hdr10 and dovi 8.1

[Satya]

Usually in the player settings. Look for nits. If you can upload a short sample, do so. Some UHD material is graded darker when compared to the SDR.

this is the dv/hdr10 version:- https://mega.nz/file/mLRTwZYC#uGzzxt1SkHI3COAXvJsmhy0wLY51XC9gZfrP3_G69nQ

this is the sdr one:- https://mega.nz/file/vGQFzLAS#5SPuleoYQH2tUwsJ3RWXWghtCyZ-9jg31Sn8U1fc39w

[GeoffreyA]

Though I don't have an HDR monitor, the HDR version does seem darker than the SDR. The latter, however, feels a bit too bright, particularly in the facial tones.

libplacebo, a library that performs HDR-to-SDR tone mapping, often matching or beating official versions, created a darker SDR conversion than the official one (https://workupload.com/archive/CwNNwnEg6H).

https://i.imgur.com/KoKlwFn.png

https://i.imgur.com/NvvmxGp.png

Lacking an HDR monitor, I then tested all three files on an HDR phone. (Yes, I know, hardly ideal.) The HDR version looked definitive, if a touch dark at times, the colours and black levels being better than the SDR. As for libplacebo's conversion, it comes close to the HDR grade, suggesting that this isn't a playback issue you're having but the way Stranger Things was graded for HDR.

[Z2697]

It's actually pretty close to a bt.2446a tonemapping with target peak around 100nits.
I assume they just used a very similar algorithm, not graded separately (at least for the most part).
Which means the HDR version should be the one that's "more accurate".

But watching HDR video on HDR display (in HDR mode)... it is what it is... if you want to follow HDR10 standard strictly...

Also the DV profile 8 thing, I bet someone just slapped RPU from DV profile 5 version onto HDR10 version.
It's not guaranteed to work well, but it's better than nothing I suppose.

[GeoffreyA]

It's actually pretty close to a bt.2446a tonemapping with target peak around 100nits.
I assume they just used a very similar algorithm, not graded separately (at least for the most part).

Yes, that's why it looks too bright in the field, but when they reach the forest, it's better.

[Satya]

Though I don't have an HDR monitor, the HDR version does seem darker than the SDR. The latter, however, feels a bit too bright, particularly in the facial tones.

libplacebo, a library that performs HDR-to-SDR tone mapping, often matching or beating official versions, created a darker SDR conversion than the official one (https://workupload.com/archive/CwNNwnEg6H).

https://i.imgur.com/KoKlwFn.png

https://i.imgur.com/NvvmxGp.png

Lacking an HDR monitor, I then tested all three files on an HDR phone. (Yes, I know, hardly ideal.) The HDR version looked definitive, if a touch dark at times, the colours and black levels being better than the SDR. As for libplacebo's conversion, it comes close to the HDR grade, suggesting that this isn't a playback issue you're having but the way Stranger Things was graded for HDR.


there are other scenes in this episode that were completely unwatchable because they were shot in night and you can barely see anything, even with tone mapping, that's the main reason I had suspected something is wrong, aint no way this is how they graded it.

[Satya]

It's actually pretty close to a bt.2446a tonemapping with target peak around 100nits.
I assume they just used a very similar algorithm, not graded separately (at least for the most part).
Which means the HDR version should be the one that's "more accurate".

But watching HDR video on HDR display (in HDR mode)... it is what it is... if you want to follow HDR10 standard strictly...

Also the DV profile 8 thing, I bet someone just slapped RPU from DV profile 5 version onto HDR10 version.
It's not guaranteed to work well, but it's better than nothing I suppose.


it was unwatchable even on my hdr monitor, especially the scenes in the night, you can barely make out anything, and with DV - RPU how do we even fix that,

[GeoffreyA]

there are other scenes in this episode that were completely unwatchable because they were shot in night and you can barely see anything, even with tone mapping, that's the main reason I had suspected something is wrong, aint no way this is how they graded it.

In the videos I linked, is the libplacebo version also too dark?

[Z2697]

it was unwatchable even on my hdr monitor, especially the scenes in the night, you can barely make out anything, and with DV - RPU how do we even fix that,

Can you name a example of such scenes? And maybe a photo of how it looks on your screen? I scrubbed around the episode (dv profile5 ver.) and didn't find a scene that's unwatchably dark.

If you want the SDR experience then use tonemapping like bt.2446a or spline with target peak set to 100 nits. And keep the DV metadata, tonemapping is where it's really useful.
(spline is also close to the official SDR but it gives more "contrast")

If you want HDR experience and increase brightness... it's a bit unfortunate, you'll have to adjust the gamma in you video player , at the risk of making some scenes too bright.
(I think displays will only let you decrase brightness in HDR mode if it's even possible, because it will already default to 100% brightness in HDR mode, no room for going higher)

Grading things very dark for some reason is unfortunately a thing, especially with HDR, but I don't think this episode is too dark, maybe your display is playing tricks with you.

Actually, what's your display? And what video player you are using?

[tormento]

libplacebo, a library that performs HDR-to-SDR tone mapping, often matching or beating official versions
Please, post your script with libplacebo.

[GeoffreyA]

Please, post your script with libplacebo.

ffmpeg -init_hw_device vulkan -i "%src%" -map 0:v:0 -map_metadata -1 -vf libplacebo=w=-1:h=1080:upscaler=spline36:downscaler=spline36:peak_detect=true:tonemapping=spline:gamut_mode=perceptual:colorspace=bt709:color_trc=bt709:color_primaries=bt709:range=limited:dithering=blue:format=yuv420p,crop=%crop%:exact=true,sidedata=delete -c:v libx264 [...] "%dst%"

You can actually shorten it because a lot of those settings are the defaults:

ffmpeg -init_hw_device vulkan -i "%src%" -map 0:v:0 -map_metadata -1 -vf libplacebo=w=-1:h=1080:upscaler=spline36:downscaler=spline36:colorspace=bt709:color_trc=bt709:color_primaries=bt709:range=limited:format=yuv420p,crop=%crop%:exact=true,sidedata=delete -c:v libx264 [...] "%dst%"

And if you want to output to 10 bit, just change the format to yuv420p10le.

From November, the sidedata wasn't getting deleted. I submitted (https://code.ffmpeg.org/FFmpeg/FFmpeg/issues/21071) the issue, and it has been fixed.

[tormento]

You can actually shorten it because a lot of those settings are the defaults
I see. I thought you did with an AVS+ script.

[RocketJet]

You may like to try the app "Dolby Vision Converter".
It requires no technical knowledge of DV.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/dolby-vision-converter/

It is easy enough to give it a try.
No promises though.

[GeoffreyA]

I see. I thought you did with an AVS+ script.

I think libplacebo works with AVS too.