Does a PAL DVD necessarily need to be converted to NTSC?

[Lathe]

I swear I have a mind like an old sieve... I can't remember if I really need to 'Do' anything to a PAL source. I ripped a DVD and this is the MediaInfo:

General
Unique ID : 184495368936920228560847211904728724887 (0x8ACC83FBFA86824B74C5053260167597)
Complete name : D:\Under the Gun.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 2
File size : 2.70 GiB
Duration : 1 h 20 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 4 799 kb/s
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Encoded date : 2025-11-12 06:02:33 UTC
Writing application : MakeMKV 1.18.2 win(x64-release)
Writing library : libmakemkv 1.18.2 (1.3.10/1.5.2) win(x64-release)

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=12
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Codec ID : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration : 1 h 20 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 538 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 4 650 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.438
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed
Stream size : 2.55 GiB (95%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No
Original source medium : DVD-Video

When I play it through VLC player I don't see any combing or blurring exactly and overall it looks pretty good. Do I actually 'Need' to do anything particular in using Avisynth other than perhaps just sharpen it a little? When looking really closely at SOME paused frames, there is a very slight overlay of very narrow horizontal lines. In motion on the player I don't notice it, but I don't know if that means I need to do something like Vinverse or whatever, but it is very, very slight and only really noticeable sometimes when paused.

Thanks!

http://lathe-of-heaven.com/UndertheGunSnippet.mkv

[RetsimLegin]

No. You can leave it at 25fps 720x576.

In many respects, PAL taken from film is easier to deal with as it's normally frame accurate - i.e. has none of that 3:2 pulldown we have discussed elsewhere.

The only real justifications are:
- if the original material was actually film shot at 24fps then it will normally have been sped up by ~4% to make it run frame by frame at 25fps (there are exceptions). Some notice this, whether actually or for technical correctness. In which case ideally you would slow it down - bearing in mind you have to do the same with the audio to maintain sync. The defacto standard for video transfer of 24fps film at the "correct" speed is actually 23.976fps - an imperceptible difference.
- If you intend to edit it with 24 (or 23.976) fps material.

If the original material was captured using a contemporary PAL video camera then its speed will be correct.

[Lathe]

No. You can leave it at 25fps 720x576.

In many respects, PAL taken from film is easier to deal with as it's normally frame accurate - i.e. has none of that 3:2 pulldown we have discussed elsewhere.

The only real justifications are:
- if the original material was actually film shot at 24fps then it will have been sped up by ~4% to make it run frame by frame at 25fps. Some notice this, whether actually or for technical correctness. In which case ideally you would slow it down - bearing in mind you have to do the same with the audio to maintain sync. The defacto standard for video transfer of 24fps film at the "correct" speed is actually 23.976fps - an imperceptible difference.
- If you intend to edit it with 24 (or 23.976) fps material.

If the original material was captured using a contemporary PAL video camera then its speed will be correct.

Thanks! I thought so... Like I say, there are some barely discernible fine horizontal lines I can see if I pause some frames, but I cannot see it in motion, so I'll probably ignore it... :)

[hello_hello]

There's definitely combing in places. I don't know why. A bad transfer or something.....

Maybe you don't see the combing when using a hardware player, as like virtually all PAL DVDs it was encoded as interlaced, so maybe your player is de-interlacing even though technically it's progressive.

I tried using TFM to fix the combing but it wanted to de-interlace entire frames (mostly), whereas TDeint de-interlaced just the combed bits (mostly). I'm starting to wonder about TFM's combing detection. I thought it should be the same as TDeint.

If you want to sharpen, maybe the easiest thing to do would be to run the whole thing through QTGMC, as it cleans up some of the other undesirables.

[Lathe]

There's definitely combing in places. I don't know why. A bad transfer or something.....

Maybe you don't see the combing when using a hardware player, as like virtually all PAL DVDs it was encoded as interlaced, so maybe your player is de-interlacing even though technically it's progressive.

I tried using TFM to fix the combing but it wanted to de-interlace entire frames (mostly), whereas TDeint de-interlaced just the combed bits (mostly). I'm starting to wonder about TFM's combing detection. I thought it should be the same as TDeint.

If you want to sharpen, maybe the easiest thing to do would be to run the whole thing through QTGMC, as it cleans up some of the other undesirables.

Good idea, I appreciate the input, thanks!

I've never been conversant with QTGMC, I've never gotten it to work. Perhaps there are prerequisites to have in the plugins folder first, IDK... but going by what many say here it seems to do a lot.

I ended up using Vinverse, which may have not been the correct application of it, but it did seem to eliminate a lot of it. I sharpened it a bit with LSF and used Levels to tone down the blown out brightness. That all seemed to help. But, I am really enjoying trying to learn the seemingly MYRIAD ins and outs of Avisynth.

I just took what was a pretty horrible print, probably from television, of the 1951 movie 'UNMASKED' and I used Spotless and it did need to be detelecined, and I sharpened it a little, and wow, what a difference! I'm going through old movies that I've had from television or old DVDs from 15+ years ago and trying to 'Improve' them.

[VideoMilk78]

The only reason to convert to NTSC would be to preserve the original pitch and runtime.
AssumeFPS(23.976,true)
If you don't care about any of the reasons mentioned above and you're not using it in a restoration or cutting NTSC stuff into it then no reason to mess with the framerate.

[Sharc]

The annoying horizontal lines in the middle of frames 3,4,5 crossing the heads of the car passengers are typical glitches of flawed analog tape captures, like a VHS tape which has most likely been the master for this DVD. There may have been a problem with the tape or with the capture setup/VHS player - I don't know.
As you probably can't recapture the original tape you may - as a fix - substitute these 3 frames by motion interpolated frames of healthy adjacent frames.
You would need some Avisynth experience to do this properly though.

The fine lines/combes throughout the clip could be leftovers of a poor deinterlacer which was used to deinterlace the original video - if the source was video. Or if the original source was film (more likely) the progressive frames got affected by the DVD player's default deinterlacing during playback (the DVD is flagged interlaced to comply with the PAL DVD standard, irrespective of the content being interlaced or progressive/PsF, so the player may have kicked in its deinterlacer, actually damaging the picture.).

Bottom line: A mediocre VHS transfer IMO, also indicated by the flagging/wobbling of the vertical structures (borders, poles etc.). I would probably just live with it. Or perhaps try some vertical blurring (as you are not familiar with QTGMC).

[wonkey_monkey]

Try this:

expr("x 6 * x[0,-1] x[0,1] + 2 * + x[0,-2] x[0,2] + - 0.125 *")

It won't fix the big glitches (though it does make them slightly less obvious) but it does kill the residual interlacing without killing any detail (though that's mostly because it's a soft picture to start with)

https://i.imgur.com/AW4m83Z.png

[Lathe]

The only reason to convert to NTSC would be to preserve the original pitch and runtime.
AssumeFPS(23.976,true)
If you don't care about any of the reasons mentioned above and you're not using it in a restoration or cutting NTSC stuff into it then no reason to mess with the framerate.

Thank you! That's what I thought... :)

[Lathe]

The annoying horizontal lines in the middle of frames 3,4,5 crossing the heads of the car passengers are typical glitches of flawed analog tape captures, like a VHS tape which has most likely been the master for this DVD. There may have been a problem with the tape or with the capture setup/VHS player - I don't know.
As you probably can't recapture the original tape you may - as a fix - substitute these 3 frames by motion interpolated frames of healthy adjacent frames.
You would need some Avisynth experience to do this properly though.

The fine lines/combes throughout the clip could be leftovers of a poor deinterlacer which was used to deinterlace the original video - if the source was video. Or if the original source was film (more likely) the progressive frames got affected by the DVD player's default deinterlacing during playback (the DVD is flagged interlaced to comply with the PAL DVD standard, irrespective of the content being interlaced or progressive/PsF, so the player may have kicked in its deinterlacer, actually damaging the picture.).

Bottom line: A mediocre VHS transfer IMO, also indicated by the flagging/wobbling of the vertical structures (borders, poles etc.). I would probably just live with it. Or perhaps try some vertical blurring (as you are not familiar with QTGMC).

Thank you for the helpful input, I'm always trying to understand this kind of stuff more. Oh yeah, these prints I'm working with now vary from nice quality DVD prints to VHS captures to who the hell knows. So, if I can 'Improve' it some that's good enough and better than what I had. None of these with a few exceptions are masterpieces, but just trying to improve what I can.

[Lathe]

Try this:

expr("x 6 * x[0,-1] x[0,1] + 2 * + x[0,-2] x[0,2] + - 0.125 *")

It won't fix the big glitches (though it does make them slightly less obvious) but it does kill the residual interlacing without killing any detail (though that's mostly because it's a soft picture to start with)

https://i.imgur.com/AW4m83Z.png

Yep, I've had some pretty rough stuff to work with... :)

[Katie Boundary]

The answer, of course, depends entirely on your use case. Are you burning a DVD to watch in a North American or Japanese DVD player?

[Lathe]

The answer, of course, depends entirely on your use case. Are you burning a DVD to watch in a North American or Japanese DVD player?

Thanks for the reply! No, not really, just trying to get the best picture which can be played on a software player.

[VideoMilk78]

Thanks for the reply! No, not really, just trying to get the best picture which can be played on a software player.

Then you're probably gonna want to keep it in PAL, assuming by converting to NTSC you mean the resolution as well as the fps.

[Lathe]

Then you're probably gonna want to keep it in PAL, assuming by converting to NTSC you mean the resolution as well as the fps.

Yep, that's what I've learned here, thanks!

[geometer]

short one, not explicitly mentioned.
audio editor, have the soundtrack in WAV format.
compare lengths in audio and video editors, in ms granularity.
(given they are in sync, start with the unprocessed versions)

after processing, no length should have changed, but if it happened, you can correct the processing because you have the math, or perhaps stretch the audio until they match again.

I had a project, was in sync at beginning, movie ended and was seconds off.

[Lathe]

short one, not explicitly mentioned.
audio editor, have the soundtrack in WAV format.
compare lengths in audio and video editors, in ms granularity.
(given they are in sync, start with the unprocessed versions)

after processing, no length should have changed, but if it happened, you can correct the processing because you have the math, or perhaps stretch the audio until they match again.

I had a project, was in sync at beginning, movie ended and was seconds off.

Very good to know, thank you!