Clever FFMpeg's conversion from UHD-HD is mysteriously 'Jerky' this time...

[Lathe]

I did post this on ProWo's thread also, but I thought maybe one of you extremely experienced, brilliant people might think of a way to salvage this encode... :D

I did what I've done many times using the program when converting from UHD-HD HDR-SDR, and it has always come out just fine. However, this time in converting the new 4k release of 'HARD BOILED' the result came out kind of 'Jerky'... Don't know why, I did everything exactly the same.

So, here is a snippet of the resulting encode. FWIW, the original 4k file does not do this and plays perfectly fine. Is there some Magic Voodoo Quickie way to fix this? I don't want to sit through a number of hours reencoding it if I don't have to.

Thanks!

http://lathe-of-heaven.com/CleverSnippet.mkv

PS: Do you think if I run this quickly through BDRB (I need to shave off about a Gig or so to fit on a Blu-ray anyway) would that somehow magically 'Fix' it...? Just hoping... :)

[microchip8]

It appears as extreme motion judder, but I suspect there's something up with the frame rate...

[GeoffreyA]

Yes, I also thought there's something wrong with the frame rate. Could a conversion be taking place?

[microchip8]

Some UHD content is released as 24 fps. Could be that the encoding program he's using didn't use 24 but forced 23.976 fps instead, doing no real conversion...

[manolito]

I think to prevent any speculations it would help if Lathe could upload a short source cutout (preferably the same cut as his result clip).

Cheers
manolito

[Lathe]

Excellent observations guys, thanks! Maybe it is the 24 FPS thing...

Yes, I'll post an UHD clip too. As you will see, the UHD snippet plays just fine... I tried to keep the file size down, this only has the video and is about 15 seconds with a lot of movement.

http://lathe-of-heaven.com/Hard.Boild.UHDSnippet.mkv

[microchip8]

Mediainfo shows 23.976 fps

But I think you should try again and force the fps to 24. Do a small test encode to see how it goes

[Lathe]

Mediainfo shows 23.976 fps

But I think you should try again and force the fps to 24. Do a small test encode to see how it goes

Good suggestion, I'll give it a try, thanks!

I don't know if I can change the FR on Clever FFMpeg though... Just out of curiosity I'll try running the resulting encode through MKVMerge and force 24 FPS there and see what happens... :)

[GeoffreyA]

I converted the source sample using both a manual FFmpeg script and Clever. The resulting encodings seem to be all right. Could an older FFmpeg binary be the culprit?

https://workupload.com/archive/nQhJNbY3CS

[Lathe]

I converted the source sample using both a manual FFmpeg script and Clever. The resulting encodings seem to be all right. Could an older FFmpeg binary be the culprit?

https://workupload.com/archive/nQhJNbY3CS

Oh wow, that's interesting... IDK... I have no idea, I'll check the Clever interface to see if I need to download a newer version. Odd... Thanks!

***EDIT

I was just thinking, did you set Clever to convert from HDR-SDR and also from UHD to HD? The only other things I tweaked a little was that I felt the picture was a tad bland, so I set desaturation for 1 instead of the default 2. Also, I added a tad more contrast, about .08 IIRC, but I did not change anything else.

[GeoffreyA]

Oh wow, that's interesting... IDK... I have no idea, I'll check the Clever interface to see if I need to download a newer version. Odd... Thanks!

***EDIT

I was just thinking, did you set Clever to convert from HDR-SDR and also from UHD to HD? The only other things I tweaked a little was that I felt the picture was a tad bland, so I set desaturation for 1 instead of the default 2. Also, I added a tad more contrast, about .08 IIRC, but I did not change anything else.

Yes, I set the output colour space to BT.709 and the resolution to 1080p.

[Lathe]

Yes, I set the output colour space to BT.709 and the resolution to 1080p.

How strange... I wonder why the result was different for me? I really appreciate you taking the time to do that though. Maybe ProWo will have some thoughts on it.

[microchip8]

So, any progress on this. Did you "fix" it? :)

[Lathe]

So, any progress on this. Did you "fix" it? :)

Hey, thanks for following up and asking! :)

I'm going to try some stuff tonight, also if I can't get it right I'm going to try a different source. But yeah, I'll report back, thanks again!

[Lathe]

Hmmm... interesting. Get this... So I tried again using a small snippet like I posted above, and yes, Clever did the snippet just fine. BUT... I had run that snippet through MKVMerge in order to create the slices. So, I then loaded the full original file with the same settings, and guess what...? I got the Jerky motion again.

Sooooo... am I right in drawing the conclusion that somehow the original file will not process correctly, BUT if I run it through MKVMerge THEN it will...? The snippet I posted above was just like the one I did that DID work properly for you, but the original file BEFORE processing it through MKVMerge came out Jerky.

Interesting, don't you think?

So, now I am going to run the entire file through MKVMerge BEFORE loading it into Clever and see what happens. That is the ONLY difference between the two... :)

[Lathe]

YES!!! That was it! No wonder the snippets I made for you guys worked fine, for some odd reason the file 'Needed' to be run through MKVMerge first... :D I ran the entire original file through MKVMerge first and NOW I am encoding it with Clever (for some bizarre reason the current version won't open anymore and I have to use the last version, weird...) and YES! it is coming out just fine.

I'm glad I stumbled on it finally! I realized that the snippets I was making had been run through MKVMerge first and encoded just fine. Still don't understand 'Why', but I'm glad I figured it out... :)

Thanks for all the help!

[GeoffreyA]

Glad it's working! Something must have been haywire with the original file's frame rate, and mkvmerge knocked it into shape.

[Lathe]

Glad it's working! Something must have been haywire with the original file's frame rate, and mkvmerge knocked it into shape.

Apparently so... I'm just glad that I stumbled on what it was... :)

I'm finding the same is true with the recent print of 'A BETTER TOMORROW 2'... So, I need to find room to do a MKVMerge first and then input that file into Clever.

[ProWo]

Apparently so... I'm just glad that I stumbled on what it was... :)

I'm finding the same is true with the recent print of 'A BETTER TOMORROW 2'... So, I need to find room to do a MKVMerge first and then input that file into Clever.
You could also try the Fix timestamps option in clever.
(Lossless changes, Fix timestamps.)

[Lathe]

You could also try the Fix timestamps option in clever.
(Lossless changes, Fix timestamps.)

Whoa... That's probably a bit beyond my paygrade, but thanks for the suggestion!