4K UHD Blu-Ray disk playback in PowerDVD 22 Ultra in 2024?

[McZion]

Hi everyone!

I have heard in a lot of places (including an official CyberLink article - https://www.cyberlink.com/support-center/faq/content?id=28347) that the 4K UHD Blu-Ray disk playback is dead, so no way you can legally play these disks anymore on a PC. Just go and buy PS5/XboX Series X or a standalone 4K Blu-Ray player.

But the thing is that no one has specific details on what exactly is going on, and why it does not work. Or should not work. Some theories only.

I have checked the video from here - https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=185305
It looks like the overall process involves 2 servers to at least initiate UHD disk playback in PowerDVD - CyberLink servers with AACS keys and IAS (Intel Attestation Service) for Intel SGX.

I was told that the IAS servers are down, that's why you cannot play UHD disks. But I didn't find anyone that played 4K UHD disks before and reported that this does not work anymore.
So I was redirected to this forum (from the MakeMKV forum) to find all the answers.

And my question is - how it is possible that I STILL CAN legally play 4K UHD disks in PowerDVD 22 Ultra in 2024? What did CyberLink, Intel, or AACS-LA do so consumers cannot (theoretically?) play 4K UHD disks on compatible hardware and software?

I have an Intel NUC with Core i7-10710U (+ HDMI 2.0b), a Verbatim 43888 drive, and a 4K HDR monitor. Plus a box version of PowerDVD 22 Ultra was recently purchased from Amazon. And I installed the version provided on the disk and disabled updates for PowerDVD. And everything worked - the initialization of UltraHD playback was completed without a single issue!
And now I want to understand, what should I avoid in this setup so I can keep playing UHD disks. BIOS updates? Driver updates?

PS: it seems like there is one more guy who successfully did the same thing - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=22526742&postcount=371
So I am not the only happy person :)

[nalor]

To my knowledge this is because Intel discontinued SGX in recent cpus (wikipedia says beginning with 11th generation it's not included any longer - so your 10th gen cpu is fine :) )

[hajj_3]

v22.0.3214.62 is the last version that can play Ultra HD bluray discs and isos of them. This functionality was removed after that version.

[McZion]

v22.0.3214.62 is the last version that can play Ultra HD bluray discs and isos of them. This functionality was removed after that version.

To my knowledge this is because Intel discontinued SGX in recent cpus (wikipedia says beginning with 11th generation it's not included any longer - so your 10th gen cpu is fine :) )

Thank you.

Yes, I also thought that if I could find or build an old PC (laptop/mini PC) that supports Intel SGX and install the version of PowerDVD that does not have the latest patch that removes UHD playback, I would be good. Oh, and the official UHD drive, of course.
Then, after explaining my idea, I got this reply on another forum:

"SGX support has been turned off at the server side. No legal way anymore to play UHDs on a computer. This was extensivly discussed in the Redfox forum but that forum is down and so no external links."

This led me to think that:
1. There might be a problem with Intel SGX, but maybe not the one described in particular
2. Not enough information, maybe the person didn't go over some tests or forum threads (back in the days when the Redfox forum was available) and his statement is incomplete

So I still have the REAL and WORKING result, and I don't understand why people were worrying about deprecating UHD playback. Just use old hardware and software. Maybe keep this setup specifically for UHD playback but use a newer PC for daily tasks.
The only problem might be that you just get stuck with a specific version and if there is a crucial update in the future (that will prevent you from playing UHDs, or even using the old PowerDVD version), then you are screwed.

[McZion]

nalor, yep, that's the point - nothing stops you from using the old hardware, as long as you can get it somewhere. So using Intel's 10th gen CPU is the best option here (in terms of performance).

hajj_3, yes, I have checked this info as well. But just to be safe, I decided to use the version available on the disk that came in the box. Even though it is a bit older than the one mentioned - mine is 22.0.1522.62. And it still does the job, no issues playing 4K UHD Blu-Ray disks. Maybe at some point, I will update to build 3214, but right now I follow the rule "If it works, don't touch it" :)
And I know that it's better to turn off updates in PowerDVD 22, so the very last update can be avoided which removes 4K UHD playback.

By the way, I am using Windows 10 Pro with all the latest updates. I think it is important (at least looking at the original requirements for playing 4K UHD disks on CyberLink's site). I am not sure that everything will work nicely with Windows 11 but can give it a try later.

Any other ideas on what can go wrong (except for updating to the very latest version of PowerDVD 22, newer than build 3214)? Or am I good with what I have right now and it is almost impossible to break 4K UHD playback?

[McZion]

Wow, didn't expect the message on Oct 28 to appear here - I thought it was declined for some reason. But, OK, then my answers are more detailed )))

[Lucius Snow]

Is there an alternative to PowerDVD which supports Blu-Ray UHD with recent Intel CPU's (13th or 14th generation)?

Thanks.

[coopervid]

Is there an alternative to PowerDVD which supports Blu-Ray UHD with recent Intel CPU's (13th or 14th generation)?

Thanks.

Not really. VLC doesn't really work with menus. Either use AnyDVD in the background if you have a licence or now you can check out XReveal free and if you like it XReveal Pro.

[McZion]

coopervid, I have recently checked the nightly build of VLC 4.0, and found out that even at this point it includes the latest libbluray (1.3.4) and nicely works with the latest JRE, and not just the old JDK 12.0.2.
Besides that, all Blu-Ray menus, including the ones on 4K HDR movies, now work normally, and the tone mapping of the menus is fixed. The only thing is that this version is not stable enough to play some rips.

For example, the Interstellar movie plays fine, but the duration shows incorrectly. Alita Battle Angel does not start (it actually crashes the player), but can start normally after you played and stopped the Interstellar movie :)

[McZion]

OK, so I decided to give it a shot and upgraded the BIOS on my NUC from version FNCML357.0052.2021.0409.1144 (the one installed automatically via Windows 10 Updates) to version FNCML357.0065.2024.0709.1337 (latest BIOS 0065 released by ASUS).

And nothing changed - 4K UHD Blu-Ray disks are still playing without an issue. Plus, I ensured that all drivers were up to date and that the Thunderbolt and LSPCON chip firmware were also the latest. So, now everything has the latest version :)

Now it looks like there are only 2 limitations - do not update to the latest version of PowerDVD (newer than v22.0.3214.62) and stay on Windows 10.
But I don't know (or remember), what was the limiting factor on Windows 11. I think I will make an image of the current system and try out Windows 11. Just to see what's wrong...

PS: I found out that the HDMI 2.0b port through LSPCON on this NUC is not as good as I thought it would be. There's just not enough bandwidth for 3840x2160 + HDR + 10-bit + RGB (4:4:4) + 60 fps (surprisingly, my monitor can't go lower than 50 fps). And setting the YCrCb 4:2:0 while having 60fps gives too many artifacts. Everything works OK via DP 1.2, but it is out of spec (DP 1.4 is needed for HDR metadata). Unfortunately, I don't have a 4K HDR TV at the moment - I assume it should work nicely in this setup, mostly because of the "correct" framerates that it can support (like 23.976 - 24 fps).

[McZion]

So I did a test with Windows 11 Pro (Version 24H2, Build 26100.2314, with the latest updates) on the same NUC.
And everything still works, initiating components for Ultra HD Blu-ray (for the first time in this system) worked, and playing 4K UHD Blu-rays is possible even on Windows 11.
The only thing is that activating Intel SGX wasn't needed because this was done while I was on old BIOS/firmware and Windows 10.

So, in conclusion, I don't see any major software problem that would prevent anyone from playing 4K UHD Blu-ray disks - if you can get the right hardware (watch out for HDMI 2.0a/b port, which works through a DP to HDMI converter chip on the MB) and a license for PowerDVD 20/21/22 Ultra, you can play these disks without an issue. Just make sure you install PowerDVD 22 Ultra of version not greater than 22.0.3214.62 and disable updates.

But I would still appreciate it if anyone could tell me, what can go wrong in my setup and what I should not do to have 4K UHD Blu-ray disk playback. I doubt that some people were posting messages about "4K disk playback on PC died" for no reason.

[SeeMoreDigital]

While the likes of VLC player and MPC-BE are able to play Blu-ray UHD discs that have been decrypted, as far as I'm aware no freeware software media player supports Java based menus :scared:

[MrPenguin]

While the likes of VLC player and MPC-BE are able to play Blu-ray UHD discs that have been decrypted, as far as I'm aware no freeware software media player supports Java based menus :scared:
VLC supports Java-based menus. At least, mine does once I installed this package:
$ rpm -q libbluray-bdj-1.3.4-7.fc41.x86_64 --list
/usr/share/java/libbluray-awt-j2se-1.3.4.jar
/usr/share/java/libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar
The actual problem with UHD disks is that VLC 3.0.x doesn't support HDR :(.

[SeeMoreDigital]

VLC supports Java-based menus. At least, mine does once I installed this package:
$ rpm -q libbluray-bdj-1.3.4-7.fc41.x86_64 --list
/usr/share/java/libbluray-awt-j2se-1.3.4.jar
/usr/share/java/libbluray-j2se-1.3.4.jar
The actual problem with UHD disks is that VLC 3.0.x doesn't support HDR :(.Interesting... Where do you install that little lot?

[McZion]

While the likes of VLC player and MPC-BE are able to play Blu-ray UHD discs that have been decrypted, as far as I'm aware no freeware software media player supports Java based menus :scared:

Kodi also supports Java based menus. I have tested it on Windows.
Just need to install it and JRE (even the latest version works) and Kodi will work nicely even with HDR.
The only thing is I have changed 3 settings in Kodi for a better experience (and expectation):

Settings - System - Display: Use 10 bit for SDR - Never
Settings - System - Display: Use system HDR/SDR brightness balance - ON
Settings - Player - Discs: Blu-ray playback mode - Show Blu-ray menu

The first one is needed so Kodi won't try to map HDR content to SDR (in reality, I needed this for testing). To have HDR, make sure you have enabled it in Windows Display settings.
The third one will show the full menu, as it is on the disk.

BTW, MakeMKV can integrate with Kodi, so you can just insert the disk and play it in Kodi - MakeMKV will do on the fly decryption.

[MrPenguin]

Interesting... Where do you install that little lot?
These jars are part of libbluray. Wherever you installed your libbluray from, it looks like you missed something.