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View Full Version : Limited Range or Full range? Which is correct for SD Anime?


Reclusive Eagle
3rd November 2021, 20:00
So this anime is from a Blu-Ray that looks extremely different to the 2005 DVD.

I was told "Its because they wanted to match the colors to source material" as the colors are duller on the DVD compared to the Manga.

However from the moment I got the Blu-Ray I though "There is no way this was intended" as so many details are overblown and way oversaturated.

Here is a comparison between 2 scenes both before and after converting the range. Including histogram with clipping
https://slow.pics/c/R6XTlFBi

Original image has clipping in the Luma? bars and the range corrected has been converted with this code:
clip =core.fmtc.bitdepth (clip,bits=16)
clip = clip.resize.Lanczos (range_in_s="full", range_s="limited")
clip =core.fmtc.bitdepth (clip,bits=8)

(16 bit was required before range conversion as there were range spikes throughout the graph in 8 bit)

My question is. Even though my corrected version looks correct. Is it? Could the conversion to full range be intended for the Blu-Ray?
Also is this code actually the correct way to convert full range to limited in ftmc

shph
4th November 2021, 00:30
You need to check yourself by eye.
Technically default for DVD and Blu-ray is always Limited range. But as usual it could be human error during mastering or during transfer, or for some unknown reason release studio may just decide add brightness to make new release look "happier" and so virtually clip some data beyond limited range.
I saw a lot of dull DVDs that by mistake used incorrect levels range. Also it could be mistake during analog to digital process. Capture DV or Hi-8 to MOV container clips more data by default compare to AVI. So that clipped data should be recovered back from source during editing. See some tests in this post https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1907919#post1907919 Some editors know about this some don't :) This produce errors.

Emulgator
4th November 2021, 11:47
I would share Reclusive Eagle's assumption, the range-reduced samples look rather ok to me, already on my measly 6-bit Laptop TFT.
Besides, Blu-ray should stay within Limited Range anyway.

Still one may use up WTW and BTB for the big boom.
But what if any scene uses that up ?
He will achieve permanent clipping on any display that gives Full Black @ 16 and full White @ 235

The original would be barking far too much at my 10-bit LG OLED, but I did not try yet.
Would need to burn a Blu-ray from the sample and play that through the Blu-ray player->OLED chain

Reclusive Eagle
4th November 2021, 19:50
I would share Reclusive Eagle's assumption, the range-reduced samples look rather ok to me, already on my measly 6-bit Laptop TFT.
Besides, Blu-ray should stay within Limited Range anyway.

Still one may use up WTW and BTB for the big boom.
But what if any scene uses that up ?
He will achieve permanent clipping on any display that gives Full Black @ 16 and full White @ 235

The original would be barking far too much at my 10-bit LG OLED, but I did not try yet.
Would need to burn a Blu-ray from the sample and play that through the Blu-ray player->OLED chain

Yeah the problem with converting limited range to full range, is sure the colors look more "pleasing" because people are obsessed with saturation.
But it destroys all the details. Even in the examples I showed there are a ton of lost details such as small highlights so it really does not make sense to me why a studio would actively blow out highlights and clip black levels when the source contains all the information.

Its really an example of why companies should forfeit the distribution rights of physical products that have already been sold.
Imagine if Apple said "you can't sell your iPhone after purchase. Here is a copy right strike"

But that's the state of digital media because the companies Who most of the time throw away master tapes, sources, cells and audio want to rerelease something to make money using low quality MPEG-2 sources everyone suffers. Luckily for a lot of anime 35mm film reels are in the hands of private collectors who are starting to scan and remaster them in 4k.