10 years spinning and still going strong

[hello_hello]

Old Clunker celebrated his ten year spinnaversary recently (3741 days of power up time), and I forgot about it, so to make it up to him....

His nickname's due to him being a little noisy, and in summer he can get hot enough to cause pain if you pick him up, but he's not showing any sign of having to give up his unconventional "on the floor" lifestyle, and he seems quite happy to be working 24/7....aside from an occasional break when the cat plays behind the desk and disconnects one of his cables.

Happy 10 years of almost non-stop spinning to "Old Clunker". :)

https://i.postimg.cc/K185hGwb/Old-Clunker-1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/K185hGwb)

https://i.postimg.cc/LnTVWYyv/Old-Clunker-2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/LnTVWYyv)

[microchip8]

I have a Maxtor that just wouldn't die. Sadly I no longer use it as it's small in capacity and I no longer have an IDE port (yeah, I know there are adapters)

[hello_hello]

There's a 20GB, or maybe a 40GB, Maxtor drive in an old Pentium 3 PC here. It's only used an hour or two per day for playing card games now, but it must be 20 years old. When that drive dies I guess it'll be time to finally ditch the PC, as it's the last surviving IDE drive and I'm pretty sure there's no SATA connectors on the MB. It's too old to be stuffing around with it when the drive finally gives up.

[StainlessS]

I like Maxtor, got a 3.5" 320GB external [with Maxtor emblazened on the side so the entire shabang is maxtor], never had a minutes worry about
it, just keep on going like the Energizer bunny. chucked out a bunch of low cap drives bout 12 months ago, incl 10GB [maxtor again] which I
kinda loved, me and Max, we were inseparable.

I kinda avoid Western Digital now, they dont play nice in external hard drive docks, I have one WD drive that is readable in one of my three external docks,
but most of them dont work at all. I highly recommend the external dock, is real handy, can use old hard drive like an SD card, just plop it in [switch on] and go.
Two of mine support both SATA and IDE, 3.5 and 2.5, but one is SATA only.
Just looked it is [the SATA only dock, my favorite], still available from where I got mine, about £24.00 incl UK VAT and P&P:- https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/20043/Dynamode-USB3-0-Hard-Drive-Drop-In-One-Touch-Back-Up-Docking-Station/
Maybe I get another one. Its a bit light and 'plasticky', but I aint had any trouble with it and I've seen somewhere (either e-bay or Amazon) the same
one for about £50.00. I have a few Dynamode devices, cheap and cheerful but I aint had any probs with any of them.

An external dock is a great idea for accessing old drive easily and without screws and stuff, and if you look, you might find plentiful old drives at very low cost, I got about 24 2.5" 20GB drives for £0.50 each [old XBOX 360 drives, had to dismantle and take out the drive], and about another 10 assorted sizes 40GB -> 80GB for a bit more cost than the 20GB ones [again XBOX 360]. I got so many, I dont really know what to do with them, I just use them as SD cards, and maybe for boot tools, probably gonna install Linux or something on one or more of them [once installed can only boot from same machine/device as original install]. [Old XBOX 360 drive have usually not had an awful lot of use, even gamers dont play games 24/7]
And 2.5" drives are a nice size for a lable. [I would not bother with a 20GB 3.5 inch drive, but a 20GB 2.5 drive is handy, if I can think of a use for them].

I really reccommend external dock, wish I'de gotten one years and years ago.

EDIT: And, my old IDE PATA drives I use for Emergency - Emergency drives, and put them out of the way where will not be disturbed.
IDE [3.5"] drives are a bit more problematic in HD dock, usually takes a bit of fiddling to insert, as the power plugs are not a specified distance
from the ribbon connector, there is usualy some kind of slide mechanism which you have to mess with to get them to fit properley,
2.5 IDE are only slightly more awkward than SATA.

EDIT: Ignore the "One-button-Backup" stuff on HD docks adverts, they are just usually a shortcut key [on the dock itself] to start some PC based
backup software [which you sometimes get as free download link from manufacturer site].
However, one of my docks [has 2 drive bays, another has 3, my favorite linked one above only 1 bay] does do a RAW backup from one bay to the other, and without a PC connected, single push button to duplicate drive [target must be at least same size as source], but I've never used it.

[microchip8]

I used to be a fan of Maxtor back in the days. Seagate took them over so I moved on to Seagate. I'm not a fan of WD much. Just recently had to replace a WD Red in my NAS due to bad sectors only after 5000 hours of operation. Never had to replace a Maxtor or Seagate so soon as the WD Red. Also their recent shenanigans with Shingled recording and not mentionning it clearly is a deal breaker for me.

[FranceBB]

Happy Spinnaversary! :D

https://i.imgur.com/xcdn4Nh.png

It's time to party!


Ah Maxtor... too bad they were killed ehm I mean "acquired" by Seagate...
Oh, back when Hard Disk manufacturers still knew what they were doing... :')

(actually they still know what they're doing but they're artificially making them fail sooner nowadays...)

Funny enough, I had plenty of Seagate HDDs who failed after few years, but my old Maxtor 40 GB Pata drive was still working and has been working from 1999 to 2011.
Noisy as f... and slow as hell, but it was still working and I bet it would still work if I take it from my closet and connect it to my computer...

[Boulder]

My oldest 1TB WD Green turns 10 years in a few months, 3566 days of power on time. I have several HDDs with over 2000 or 3000 days power on time, I guess I've just been lucky. I have a few replacement drives I bought a long time ago but never had to use them :D

[hello_hello]

I have three hard drive docks. One of them is a dual drive dock, two are single drive, and there's a fourth dual drive dock that no longer works (it's power supply died). "Old Clunker" is connected to the MB directly so the docks can be used for drives that aren't connected permanently.

Most of my hard drives are WD and they generally work fine in any dock, but the docks are connected via USB. Two of the docks have SATA and USB outputs, but I gave up connecting via SATA a long time ago. I assume it was because they wouldn't connect reliably, and at the time I blamed the docks and/or the MB's SATA controller., but maybe the WD drives were the problem. USB is rock solid, even though two of the docks are only USB2 and therefore rather slow.

Today I found myself reminiscing over the good old days when hard drives were respectable and wore their circuit boards on the inside.

https://i.postimg.cc/7btrNQgZ/1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7btrNQgZ)

https://i.postimg.cc/V5kcnc0h/2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/V5kcnc0h)

[StainlessS]

One of my dock power supplies died on me too, so I got this one [way over spec'ed] :- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mains-Switching-Adaptor-Supply-5-5mmx2-1mm/dp/B07Y8MHZS5/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=12V+6A+Mains+AC-DC+Switching+Adaptor+Power+Supply+Adaptor+PSU+12V+6A+Mains+AC-DC+Switching+Adaptor+Power+Supply+Adaptor+PSU+12V+6A+Mains+AC-DC+Switching+Adaptor+Power+Supply+Adaptor+PSU+12V+6A+Mains+AC-DC+Switching+Adaptor+Power+Supply+Adaptor+PSU+12V+6A+Mains+AC-DC+Switching+Adaptor+Power+Supply+Adaptor+PSU+DIXIETREE&qid=1619084153&sr=8-1

12V 6Amp, 5.5mmx2.1mm/2.5mm connector [fits both 2.1mm and 2.5mm plugs], I went way over spec so as to be able to use it with many other devices.
[original something like 1.5 Amp].

Most of my hard drives are WD and they generally work fine in any dock
That is strange, you were lucky, or, paid lots for yours. [all mine cheap and cheerful].
If you view questions and reviews on Amazon, there are loads of Q's asking if works with WD drives.

One of my docks is USB-2 and eSATA, eSATA aint even as fast as USB-2 [I think], I actually have both leads connected at times
[but usually leave out the eSATA] as mine will not boot to USB, but will boot to eSATA, once booted [EDIT: Into OS], USB-2 is used by the dock. [EDIT: I boot eSATA to boot tools, eg Macrium Reflect Rescue media].
[also, the dock has a bunch of card readers / USB stick ports, which dont work under eSATA only].

My first Hard drive cost me bout £400.00 for 20GB. [no it weren't solid gold].

EDIT: The WD drive that works in only one of my docks is an older 250GB drive, maybe its older drives that will work in your docks,
maybe if you try newer ones they will fail. [I've avoided the prob with my larger WD drives by using them as internal drives].

[hello_hello]

Most of the "loose" drives I use for backup/storage (in docks) are 2TB WD Green drives. I don't think they make the Green drives any more, but I have quite a few of them. The other drives I use in docks are a mixture of older drives that were removed from PCs and replaced with something larger. They're mostly 250GB & 500GB drives. At least 3 of them are WD.

This one's been sitting in a dock for a few days now. It's at least 8 years old but it's power on time is only 184 days, so I thought I'd give it some exercise (I'm watching a TV series stored on it).

https://i.postimg.cc/f3w71RY7/D1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/f3w71RY7)

Remember when Samsung made hard drives?

https://i.postimg.cc/YG06qDnh/D2.jpg (https://postimg.cc/YG06qDnh)

The first hard drive I considered buying was for a sampling keyboard back in the 80s. The best quote I got was $1000 (Australian) for a 100MB drive. Yes.... 100 megabytes. I decided to keep using floppy discs instead.

The first hard drive I owned came with a laptop. I think it had a massive 1GB capacity. I'm not sure this is the exact model, but it's close. Memories.....

I remember eventually dumping the laptop and building a Pentium 3 desktop containing two 20GB hard drives. At the time, all that storage was wonderful......

https://i.postimg.cc/hXR1brj5/Versa.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hXR1brj5)

[FranceBB]

Oh Windows 95... I've never used it, I was far too young back then...
I wasn't really able to use anything 'till Windows 98 Second Edition came out, so 1999 when I've got my first computer, a desktop.

[StainlessS]

Yeah, W95 with that sexy red tile, the ultimate look that will never die.

[hello_hello]

Oh Windows 95... I've never used it, I was far too young back then...
I wasn't really able to use anything 'till Windows 98 Second Edition came out, so 1999 when I've got my first computer, a desktop.

At least you arrived just in time for the Y2K nonsense. :)

I was running a small business back then and I remember having to send out Y2k compliance forms to several of the companies I was dealing with at the time... the ones employing office workers who'd found Y2K was a new excuse to justify their existence.

[StainlessS]

Pre-Y2K,
I had to do a hack for Atarti-ST/STE (just for my own personal machine), same Y2K thing.
[Atari is/was official CPM/68K, for MC 68000 CPU, whereas MSDOS was basically a ripoff of CPM to run on 8080/8086 instead
of CPM's Z80. So, ATARI FAT16 almost exactly the same as MSDOS FAT16 - Boot Sector 0 is slightly different].
It was not an easy task to figure out a hack to slide past Y2K problem, and I recall that there was gonna be another Y2K type
event some years later, because the hack was just a bit of sticking plaster fix, next Y2K event is something like 2027, or maybe 2029, when more
uproar will likely ensue. [I'm guessin' that my hack would be pretty much the same as PC hack, there was not much else that could be done].
FAT16 is still in-use now, and dates still limited to 32 bit. Not sure what has transpired for FAT32, I think that was also limited to 32 bit too,
but with Long File Name stuff, they probably extended the dates as well, maybe. FAT16 was actually limited to 2 second steps, no milli-secs whotsit.

[hello_hello]

I worked in a music shop a couple of lifetimes ago, and the Atari was a popular music-workstation machine when MIDI was still all shiny and new.

That reminds me of the first time I ever saw a Windows PC. I'd lived with a guy who owned an Amiga in the early 80s, and I'd spent numerous hours playing games on the Atari instead of serving customers, and the first PC I saw was running Windows 3, or maybe 3.1. Compared to what the Atari and the Amiga were doing nearly 10 years before, I couldn't believe how horrible it was.

[StainlessS]

ST/STE/Falcon MIDI, this was probably what you were talkin' bout, Steinberg Cubase:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinberg_Cubase
[Maybe The Police, (Sting etc) used it, amongst others]

EDIT: At the end of Wikipedia page is list of notable users, The Police not mentioned.
However, Kraftwerk, Marillion, New Order,
are the only names that I recognise, although is for artists over a long period of time [1989 - present day].

[FranceBB]

Ah, Cubase... I know it, my uncle has been using it for years and still has a valid license.
On the other hand, I'm an AVID ProTools user so we don't get along hahahaha

(Actually it was him who introduced me to IT in the first place and I'll always be grateful. :) )

[hello_hello]

Cubase.... I'd forgotten the name.
I remember the Atari ST, because I'm pretty sure it was the first model with MIDI, and the STE, but I think I left the music shop before any newer models were released.

I read a little of the ST Wiki page. Single sided floppies..... I'd completely forgotten they existed, but now my memory's been nudged I do recall having to hunt around for double sided floppies at a decent price.... when they were new.

While it's in my head.... there was one particular game for the Atari ST I was quite addicted to in the 80's. It was a game of logic where you had to move through a maze while avoiding the stuff waiting to to kill you. I remember it being somewhat torturous because when you were killed you had to start playing from the beginning, rather than from the start of the current level again. In the end I probably could've played the first four of five levels blind-folded, I'd completed them so many times.

It was such a long time ago my brain could be inverting some memories, but assuming it's not, I'm pretty sure the game was "Xor" (pronounced "Zor"). I wouldn't mind checking it out again for old time's sake, but I have no idea where to look or even if it's likely to still exist.

[wonkey_monkey]

It's not the Atari version, but is this it? http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=558

It was such a long time ago my brain could be inverting some memories, but assuming it's not, I'm pretty sure the game was "Xor" (pronounced "Zor"). I wouldn't mind checking it out again for old time's sake, but I have no idea where to look or even if it's likely to still exist.

There's a small up-and-coming company called "Google" that might be able to help :D

[StainlessS]

There are Atari Emulators for PC/Linux Android and lots more,
and on a couple of DVD's you could probably fit an entire catalog of formerly commercial software, probably
descibed as Abandon Ware [some of mine is described as such somewhere, for QL, ST/STE and Amiga].
[I still got a real STE and Amiga 1200]

[Frank62]

[I still got a real STE and Amiga 1200]

Mine doesn't exist any more. After extending the RAM from 512kB to ONE MB(!!) like shown here
http://www.wam-cam.de/images/IMG_13516_m.jpg
it worked well for a year or so, before the screen showed more and more horizontal stripes. I never got it to work again. That was about... 1993 I guess. :)

[manolito]

Nice thread...
Old geezers sharing memories. Of course I also fit in this category, and when it comes to ancient HDDs still spinning, my main desktop PC still only has an 80 GB Maxtor (4D080H4 from 2001) with WinXP and two different Win98 installations, and there is still enough room for a 50 GB data partition. Of course the drive is slow, but getting older I have learned to be patient... :devil: And the SMART diagnostic tools all agree that the drive is in good health.

Thinking back what really still impresses me the most is seeing the keyboard player in my band (before I even got my first IBM compatible PC) running a full fledged MIDI sequencer on his Commodore C64. A graphical interface with just 64 kb of RAM. And it worked beautifully.

The MIDI interface was an add-on, the sequencer software was from C-Lab (the mastermind behind it was Gerhard Lengeling, a medical doctor and surgeon, later the company became EMagic and the sequencer got the name Logic, and everybody knows the rest of the story).

[StainlessS]

My Amiga 1200 has a 'trapdoor' on the bottom, which currently has 8MB Fast Page Ram card, also has socket for a floating point co-processor
but I never filled it. Also has 2MB ChipRam on main board [or maybe 1MB FastRam, 1MB ChipRam], so 10MB all together.
10MB on Amiga is so big I dont know what to do with it, I allocate 2MB just for RAM Disk.

Last time I booted it up, it seemed so damn fast [~14MHz MC68020 CPU, I thnk], made my PC seem so slow.

EDIT: It dont matter how fast modern CPU's get, they always manage to slow it back down again with a much heavier OS,
seems kinda pointless to keep updating.

EDIT: There used to be a card [maybe for trapdoor like mine, or Amiga with a PC like case, Amiga 5000 maybe] that
was a full PC compatible on a card, together with RAM and such. It would share Amiga Chip RAM and you could
run both machines without either one slowing down the other. They would use the same monitor, and could slide the
screen down, or pop it to the back to reveal the PC GUI running hell for leather performing some task.
[Amiga had multiple screens, that could have active windows on each].

[hello_hello]

wonkey_monkey,
I have heard of that google thing you refereed to, so I gave it a shot. The Wikipedia page says there's a dedicated Windows version, but I haven't found it yet. Maybe that's wrong and an emulator is required.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XOR_%28video_game%29

The screenshots don't look exactly how I remember them, as I'm sure each maze displayed fully (like this (https://maps.speccy.cz/map.php?id=Xor)) but as long as it's the same game.
I'll give it a spin in the near future.

Cheers.

[StainlessS]

I'm not a game player [except for Space Invaders in the pub back in 1980, EDIT: and also Manic Minor on spectrum], but,
about 1983/4 I wrote a tiny tool for Sinclair ZX Spectrum which installed and ran from the 128 byte
print buffer. The tool allowed you to press a key combo and slow down the machine, almost to a stop
if you wanted, or to actually pause it. Another combo actually did a Break on any running program and
dumped you back in the Spectrum BASIC interpreter command line. With this tool you could install it
before running a game [or any type app], and within the game break via my tool, and list the program
BASIC source and/or save the decrypted/decoded binary from above RAMTOP to cassette.
At that time, there was a Sunday afternoon radio program about computers [mostly ZX Spectrum] and at the
end of the program, they broadcast a Spectrum Game, and you had to record it to cassette and play the game
and send your high score to the radio station, together with a Check Number also shown at end of game.
The Winner of this game competition won some naff prize [a book or such] and a bunch of stickers with the
radio station name on them. I won the competition 3 times in a row [still got a book prize on
Computer Science with the ZX Spectrum]. I could slow down the game to the point where I could calculate the
fastest route through the game, and highest possible score, and use the BASIC routine to generate the
check number to prove my score was 'Genuine' :)
By such means I became a champion game player with an undisputed series of wins, but on the forth Sunday,
I was undone. I did not win the competition [despite my having scored the highest possible score in the game],
somebody else's name was read out as the winner, he had completed the game in about 20 steps fewer than I had.
I was furious, that b*****d had not cheated fairly, at least I had the decency to score the maximum possible,
and not delve into the realms of the impossible. Anyways, that was the last competition, I think that maybe
they [the radio station] suspected that all was not what it seemed.
Moral of the story, If you're gonna cheat, at least cheat fairly.

[Ghitulescu]

My oldest HDD was already 15 years when I had to sold the computer, it was ESDI if anyone alive knows what the heck was.
My second oldest was a quantum Bigfoot (the only HDD with a size of 5.25 not 3.5), it works happily today with an OSR2 (taht's windows 95) after 25 years. It was the only HDD that survived the hot summer of 99 when a lot of HDDs 3.5 died of insufficient cooling in our company.

HDDs that answer "how old are you, boy?" are pretty recent.

[hello_hello]

I'm not a game player [except for Space Invaders in the pub back in 1980, EDIT: and also Manic Minor on spectrum], but,

I'm not a gamer either. They tend to bore me. Unless it's XOR, or Pong, but who doesn't like Pong?
Your story reminded me of Billy Mitchell (https://gaming.ebaumsworld.com/articles/billy-king-of-donkey-kong-mitchell-caught-cheating-loses-all-high-scores/85626362/), and his even worse friend, Todd Rogers (https://gaming.ebaumsworld.com/articles/after-35-years-of-cheating-gaming-legend-todd-rogers-has-finally-been-caught/85564573/).

Speaking of Pong... speaking of Pong reminded me of a "3 Dead Trolls In A Baggie" song. Did you ever come across them? I'm pretty sure I first saw this shortly after Y2K didn't happen, so maybe it's a little dated now, but it still makes me laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPRvc2UMeMI
My favourite line:
"You see, I come from a time, way back in the nineteen hundred and seventies, when computers were used for two things. You either went to the moon, or played Pong. Nothing in between."

Anyway, I haven't see "The Royle Family" in years, but I started watching it yesterday and I'm hooked again, so it's time for another episode or two...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0129711/?ref_=ttep_ep_tt

[hello_hello]

My oldest HDD was already 15 years when I had to sold the computer, it was ESDI if anyone alive knows what the heck was.

Quantum? There's a blast from the past. I doubt I would've remembered had you not mentioned it, but I think the first PC I built had Quantum Fireball drives, although according to Wikipedia they must have been a Fireball Plus model, as they were IDE (or ATA if you prefer that term) and 7200 RPM. If I didn't use them for my PC, maybe it was for my other half's PC, or a PC for one of the relatives, but I do remember owning a couple of them.

[orion44]

I am using a 500GB Hitachi hard drive from 2010. Still works great.

[GMJCZP]

I am using a 500GB Hitachi hard drive from 2010. Still works great.

Hitachi has a reputation for being a good brand, although now as HGST it has the same durability.
I have an 80gb WD IDE that lasted me 12 years (it works but I already got the warning that I should change it), it gave me a lot of satisfaction. I also have a Quantum Fireball 30gb 4500rpm given to me by one of my brothers who recently passed away due to this demon virus, it still works, but I can't use it anymore. As Manolito says, good thread.

[Katie Boundary]

(actually they still know what they're doing but they're artificially making them fail sooner nowadays...)

That doesn't surprise me AT ALL. I used to have no problem with hard drive deaths in the 2000s, but then in the 2010s they've been dying like Mayflies. But I thought it was just incompetence, not sabotage. Can we get a reliable source for this claim?

somebody else's name was read out as the winner, he had completed the game in about 20 steps fewer than I had.
I was furious, that b*****d had not cheated fairly, at least I had the decency to score the maximum possible,
and not delve into the realms of the impossible.

That reminds me of my semi-hacked Diablo II characters. I only give them stats and items that a player could, in theory, legitimately acquire... not this "+999 to all stats" nonsense that you see on Open Battle.net.

[hello_hello]

Based on my limited experience (home PC usage), hard drives have become more reliable over the years, but they're a bit like buying a car. Occasionally, a manufacturer seems to release a model that's a bit of a lemon.

The only business I know of releasing data on drive failures is Backblaze. I'm pretty sure when they first started doing so, Seagate drives were dropping like flies, but they seem to be fairly reliable again now. Anyway, make what you will of their data. I can't say I've tried to analyse it too closely.

https://www.backblaze.com/b2/hard-drive-test-data.html

[shevegen]

Most of my old HDDs died. In about 95% of the cases it was my fault - I kept them connected to my linux computer and would just unplug. I didn't know that this can lead to crashing the moving thing that reads out data and damage it.

I moved mostly to smaller HDDs that are powered solely via USB. And these don't have that problem. It's kind of weird how technology changes improve on things even accidentally. I did not lose any of these smaller HDDs. I think size matters a LOT. Keep things small when possible - less things that can break away.

Failing small HDDs are no issue to me because if it fails, I just buy a new one and it's not that expensive.

I have a favourite in regards to brands though; intenso for me. I am sure other people have different brands but I never had a problem with intenso, but had a few problems with other brands. In most cases, though, I prefer cheapness, simply because I feel that cheap, while it could be bad, feels better to avoid getting ripped off from expensive hardware that may still fail dramatically.

[Ghitulescu]

All HDDs retuns the heads to home when idling. At least since 95.
The drive doesn't know how they are powered - yet small-form drives (2.5" or smaller) are usualyl either for laptops or for USB, and these are designed to withstand also shocks and sudden power offs. By miniaturisation, smaller HDDs become more resitant to shocks than their bigger counterparts. Heat management becomes more difficult, however.
The heads might be not at home if the power off occured during read or write or seek. Then the heads can be damaged if the disk is moved for they may hit the platters, as these continue spinning for a while. The problem is exactly the same as moving the running laptop the way you moved the HDDs when removing from linux-PC.

You may have done something else or your drives were really ancient (by 95 ALL drives could do this, but the technology started 10 years earlier).

PS: Remember DOS command PARK :) :) ?

[StainlessS]

A bit O.T.
About USB Flash drives, I recently got a couple of 128GB and a couple of 32GB GigaStone USB Flash drives from Amazon.
I'de seen them many times before and assumed they were maybe fake or dodgy drives, and so had ignored them.
I took the plunge to try them, and have been pleasantly surprised.
They are the tiny thumbnail sized drives, well made metal bodies, almost disappear if plugged into your laptop [dont stick out much].
Write speed varies a bit up and down, but can touch about 75MB/s on my No 1 machine [USB 3.1],
and read speed seems to touch up to 173MB/s [that I've observed in copying files to SSD].

click to enlarge
https://i.postimg.cc/qzrDgDvF/giga-Stone-Z90.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qzrDgDvF)

Where I got mine:- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigastone-128GB-Durable-Waterproof-Refurbished/dp/B07NS1Y9K3

Prices are pretty good too compared to my usual goto Sandisk drives.

EDIT: I got them to use as OS [maybe Linux/Android] boot drives for my Linx 1010B and Chuwi hi10 Pro
2 in 1 Tablet Laptop thingies. Less chance of problems if does not stick out of the USB port, by much.

EDIT: The above image is exactly what it looks like, sort of moulded metal, with black plastic grip which
has a slot to attach some kind of keyring or similar.

EDIT: The '90' of GigaStone Z90 is presumably the supposed write speed, I dont think I'm getting that
good a speed, but then other manufactuer figures seem similarly imaginary.
[Although I'm counting speed copying, so also involves a read from some device]
I have not yet tried the Gigastone Micro SD cards, but I will do.

[Emulgator]

Let me know when they're down to 1,5MB/s.

My 3 Minisicks from different makers lasted for less than a year (missing "t" intended).
It looks as if for the most space-saving chips electrons can be force-tunneled through their ultra-thin gate insulation only a few times before damage occurs.

For now a larger Extreme Pro USB 3.1 seems to hold on longer here,
but lets see in 2..3 years if the controller has to slow down access too.

[StainlessS]

Actually, on same page lower down in the "Buy It with" section, SanDisk 256GB single device is cheaper than
half the price of a "2 X GigaStone 256GB" pack. [The Sandisk claims 130MB/s read speed].

EDIT: I'm not expecting those kinds of speeds as boot device for Linx1010B, is only 2 x full size
USB 2.0 ports and a Micro USB 2.0, all on the tablet itself, none on the keyboard.
Chuwi Hi10 Pro, not sure about the 2 X type A ports on keyboard, maybe only USB 2.0 [EDIT: is black not blue],
and the only tablet port is type C [I've got a Type C 32GB stick, but think I'll put up with the
GigaStone as it can mount on the keyboard and not stick out as much as the Type C].
EDIT: I forgot, the Hi10 Pro also has micro USB on the tablet.

[hello_hello]

Most of my old HDDs died. In about 95% of the cases it was my fault - I kept them connected to my linux computer and would just unplug. I didn't know that this can lead to crashing the moving thing that reads out data and damage it.

As far as I know, even if the heads aren't parked when a drive loses power, the platters spin long enough to provide a cushion of air and keep the heads from crashing before they're pulled into the park position, probably by the magnet and coil that moves the actuator arm. I assume they'd be pulled back into the park position very quickly.

[StainlessS]

There was some kind of problem with some drives where when they got real hot, and with a coating of some kind on the platter, when they stopped spinning, the head could glue itself to the melted coating, which then hardened.
[no more spin, but lots of humming]

Apparently, the author of "Upgrading & Repairing PC's", Scott Mueller {Uni Lecturer, MIT maybe}, used to do a class where he would run a hard drive with the casing removed, and it actually worked, at least for a time [30 mins or more].
I've got the old Paperback 14th Edition [currently on 22nd Edition].
Dear me!, here on Amazon [22nd Ed] :- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Upgrading-Repairing-22nd-Scott-Mueller/dp/B073DMGKTX/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Hardback [new] = £24.99, Paperback [used] £184.00. :confused:
EDIT: Actually, I prefer the paperback, but not by as much as £159.01.

EDIT: How to recover data from a hard drive (stuck heads: buzzing, clicking, etc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Y7BniaRXg
Plenty more Stuck Head type hits from google:- https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=stuck+drive+head&source=hp&ei=SCe6YPu1HY2elwSAsovYAQ&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYLo1WCpdowHNLozG08idLh8L9LtX2AEl&oq=stuck+drive+head&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeOgcILhBDEJMCOgcIABCxAxBDOggIABCxAxCDAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6BQgAELEDOgUIABCRAjoCCAA6BQgAEMkDOgUIABCSAzoCCC46BQguELEDOgcIABBGEPkBOgQIABAKUIcIWJ0iYLokaABwAHgAgAH2AYgB8QySAQYxMy4yLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj7-abPh_7wAhUNz4UKHQDZAhsQ4dUDCAg&uact=5

EDIT: Above Youtube video is real interesting, [he opens up the drive case, un-stucks the head, and recovers data] and the guy hosting it seems very good, I bookmarked his account ["DIY Perks"] and plan to view a few more of his vids. Seems to know his stuff, and a good presenter.
EDIT: Amongst the youtube guy's videos he has one titled
"Building a TRUE 4k home cinema projector"
which I'm guessin' might appeal to some of our readers [android powered], he then compares it with a £2000.00 commercial projector, and by the sound of it, it fares quite well against it. [I aint watched more than a few minutes of it].
Many other videos on his channel that will appeal to D9 users.

[hello_hello]

I'm a little sad because after more than 11 years of spinning, Old Clunker passed away yesterday.

He lost connection with the computer a few times over the last week, which I put down to a bad connection as he was still living on the floor, but two days ago the PSU in my computer also passed away, and after replacing him, Old Clunker could no longer spin. He didn't even make a clicking sound to indicate he was trying.

At least he went peacefully in his sleep. R.I.P. Old Clunker.

[FranceBB]

RIP old clunker...

https://i.imgur.com/53t82rj.png

[kolak]

I know an engineer who is overlooking licensing server which has been up (without a single reboot) for more than 15 years now :)

[StainlessS]

Yeh, its tragic that nobody licenses stuff anymore. :)

R.I.P. FranceBB old Clunker.

EDIT To Below:- Oops yes, R.I.P. Hello^2.

[FranceBB]

R.I.P. FranceBB old Clunker.

Actually it's hello_hello's old clunker, I just made a meme out of it xD

This is a visual representation of hello_hello backing up everything, while his old clunker sinks...

https://i.imgur.com/WsNr04v.png

[hello_hello]

This is a visual representation of hello_hello backing up everything, while his old clunker sinks...

The PC was off for a day before I could replace the PSU and unfortunately Old Clunker didn't have another spin-up in him after such a long rest, so no chance for last minute backups. :(

Fortunately though, there were only a few files I hadn't already saved to another drive, and they weren't important.

[StainlessS]

Before you bin it, watch this,
How to recover data from a hard drive (stuck heads: buzzing, clicking, etc):- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Y7BniaRXg

[FranceBB]

no chance for last minute backups. :(


Oh... that's unfortunate... :(


Fortunately though, there were only a few files I hadn't already saved to another drive, and they weren't important.

Well... it could have been worse, that's what they say.
I'm terrible with backups myself to be honest.
All my friends are using vhd backups of their drives which are automatically backed up in their cloud.
The thing, though, is that I do not trust any cloud for sensitive personal information, be it Microsoft OneDrive or Google Drive etc, I just don't trust 'em 'cause despite all the nice dandy security features with two factors authentication and other device confirmation and all sort of stuff, I still think it's highly likely that those are gonna be hacked one day, so... I do backup my SSDs to older HDDs, however those backups are not really updated.
For instance, if I lost everything today, I could go back to September 2021, which isn't too bad but it ain't too good either... :(

[StainlessS]

OS dont matter too much, only data.
I dont store anything of value on OS drive [excepting temporarily, eg downloads],
SSD for multi-OS's, maybe 150GB for each [but lot more if eg VisualStudio2019/2022], 150GB Linux, any spare SDD after OS's for FastData partition.
Actual files stored on physical hard drives. [which usually give some warning of failure, unlike SSD, I believe].
Make image of OS drives when setup exactly as required, using eg Macrium Reflect, or FoxClone [linux boot tool] both booting from USB flash drive.
Every now and then can revert to OS image, and make any required changes/updates and re-image update for next time.
If anything happens to OS, eg malware infection, or some software messes up your system, just revert to most recent OS image, and perform any updates
and if you like, then make a new OS recovery image with Macrium or Foxclone.
{I actually store Linux swap, then Linux OS, then W10, so can make W10 bigger whilst deleting and re-creating smaller FastData partition, currently only 2 OS's. 1TB OS nvme SSD}

Data, only backup stuff that cannot be easily recovered from elsewhere, eg dont bother backing up many different versions of various linux setup ISO's,
however, Microsoft has a nasty tendancy to make specific OS version ISO's un-available, so if you need as specific version then best do back those up.
Also, arrange your data in folders for backup, and non backup.

I only use other additional external nvme SSD in USB [type C and/or type A connection] caddies {I got 2 externals} for currently work-in-progess stuff,
anything else on physical hard drive.

I would not touch any of the cloud stuff [and I hate everything wanting to sync across devices, if I want something done, I do it myself],
except of course MediaFire for posted dll's and source.

External HardDrive docks, are brilliant for backups to bare physical hard drives.
EDIT: Here:- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Docking-Station-FIDECO-Offline-Function/dp/B07D8S7RN7
A Fideco hard drive dock, supports 2*18TB Sata {2.5 or 3.5} drives, I've got one not exactly the same, with 2xUSB3.1 ports and a USB charge port,
they're great, had for several months now, no problems at all with mine. [EDIT: the power and USB leads are a little bit short on mine but got that sorted ok]

EDIT: Only I use my computers, if multi-user then makes things more awkward.

EDIT: If in the UK, and you got lots of bare physical hard drives, then maybe can use empty plastic mushroom containers from Lidl's,
the big wide ones for on-edge Landscape stacked 3.5 drives, and long narrow ones for on-edge Portrait stacked 2.5 drives {mid sized ones less usefull}. :)
{for extra robustness, might even wanna use two of each container, they fit inside one another}
Maybe they use the same plastic mushroom containers in other localities, dont know.
EDIT: @FranceBB, You have to take the mushrooms out first, else its awkward getting the drives in.

EDIT: Here looks close to Lidl 2.5" drive box [but should maybe be a half inch or so longer I think],
the 3.5" drive box about same length as 2.5" box but should be about twice as wide [Maybe called "Family Size" mushrooms].
https://i.postimg.cc/4yqyNjfY/large-flat-mushrooms-15895.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[FranceBB]

OS dont matter too much, only data.

True, the only OS I have backup of is my old XP but only 'cause I consider it as a baby rather than as a "chunk of wood to throw in the fire" as Jeffrey Snover would say. (he's no longer working for Microsoft, though).



Actual files stored on physical hard drives. [which usually give some warning of failure, unlike SSD, I believe].

I found it to be quite the opposite.
SSDs are divided in cells and each cell can be written x times. This number is reported by the manufacturer and the closer you get to that number, the more you know you should replace the SSD. Some manufacturers like Samsung have a very clever built-in logic that basically makes the drive go into self-protection mode once it reaches that number and you can connect it in read-only mode to backup all your data without losing anything.
For instance, I have 2 Samsung EVO 860 1 TB Sata III: one for the OS and one for archival purposes. The one with the OS, has had the cells rewritten 37 times, which means that it's slowly but surely approaching the 97 value after which the SSD will enter into read-only mode. The one with the data, however, has a wear levelling count of 2, which means that its cells have not been rewritten more than 2 times, so it is still healthy. :)

On the other hand, HDD might outlive SSD in terms of times in which you write and rewrite the blocks, 'cause blocks (unlike cells) don't have a finite number of time you can rewrite them that you know beforehand. The problem with blocks and HDDs, however, is that they might die and you won't even know. Sure, you'll begin to see bad sectors or re-allocated blocks followed eventually by noise etc but honestly, I would rather rely on an SSD on my daily use than on an HDD 'cause with SSD I know exactly when they're gonna die.



If anything happens to OS, eg malware infection, or some software messes up your system, just revert to most recent OS image, and perform any updates
and if you like, then make a new OS recovery image with Macrium or Foxclone.

Well, given that I have Avast Premier on Windows and ESET Nod32 on Linux (Fedora), it's highly unlikely that I'll get a malware, but still...
Unfortunately, though, ESET is discontinuing Nod32 on Linux 'cause they don't think there's enough market for home users that are running Linux and they moved everything to their crappy Enterprise version. What those douchebags don't understand, though, is that not everyone can afford an Enterprise subscription nor would want to run that version of the antivirus on a personal computer...

(p.s if "douchebags" is offensive/too hard language for a forum I'll get rid of it, but given that I heard it uncensored on public TV, namely BBC, I don't think it's gonna be an issue)

Fun fact: viruses didn't "destroy" my Windows, Microsoft did with Windows Update after updating Windows 11 a few weeks ago. When I booted the next day after the automatic update, I've got Windows 11 rebooting itself constantly and no way whatsoever to go back.

https://forums.virtualbox.org/download/file.php?id=46573

It was at that point that I thought "ah, forget it, I'll just use Linux" so now I use either Fedora or Windows XP for my personal use and I only use Windows 10 Enterprise / Windows Server 2016 at work if I need to code or to encode stuff etc, but I don't get anywhere near Windows 11 neither at home nor at work.




External HardDrive docks, are brilliant for backups to bare physical hard drives.

Yep I use them too, however my backups are done via terminal using dd like:

dd if=/dev/sda1 of=/dev/sdb1 bs=512b conv=noerror,sync status=progress

where /dev/sda1 is the original disk I want to backup and /dev/sdb1 is the new disk I want files to be copied to. It's slow, 'cause I use 512 bytes, but you can go up and make it faster like bs=64K or bs=128K etc, however, if you do that and some blocks are damaged, you'll have a 64 KB or 128 KB block error on the destination, rather than losing potentially just as little as 512 bytes.

Fun fact about dd: no one (me included) actually remembers the real name of "dd" as everyone thinks about it as "data destroyer". The reason why it has got that name within the linux community is that lots of people used to run that command with the wrong source and destination by mistake, hence destroying all the data that they wanted to backup. xD



EDIT: Only I use my computers, if multi-user then makes things more awkward.

Yep, I'm the only one too 'cause multi-user, active directory etc are only a thing I use at work. So at work I can login using my domain credentials and lots of other people use the same computer, but at home... no.
Whenever I'm at home, I'm the only one who's gonna use the computer and if one day I'll get a wife and children, this is gonna stay the same (although I've been living alone since 2013 'cause I'm still relatively young and I'm focusing on my job and on my credit score to eventually get a proper mortgage rather than being outside and partying all the time).
Anyway, the whole thing does actually come down to "trust" 'cause long time ago, back when ADSL was not a thing and I had to use dial-up, my mother got a nasty virus. I didn't notice it at first, so I kept browsing and we did get a very high bill 'cause the virus made the computer not connect directly to the dial-up number, but rather to the thieves' number, hence making us pay a lot to visit normal websites and use Google. I know that those things no longer happen since ADSL has been invented (and later on fiber optic), but still, you get the idea, so in the future, when I'll have a family on my own, each member of my family will have a dedicated computer.

(p.s next week I'll submit all the paperwork to get my first British Blue Passport and I'm getting everything ready right now. The only thing that bothers me is that I have to provide 2 referees, both British, over the age of 25, who have known me for 5 years - which is not a problem - BUT one of them has to be of "professional standing" or a so-called ‘acceptable professional person’ the definition of which is vague to say the least).



@FranceBB, You have to take the mushrooms out first, else its awkward getting the drives in.

LMAO now I've pictured the image of me pressing the hard disks into a box full of mushrooms and I cannot unsee it! xD

[hello_hello]

Before you bin it, watch this,
How to recover data from a hard drive (stuck heads: buzzing, clicking, etc):- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Y7BniaRXg

Thanks, but there's really nothing on it I haven't saved that's worth going to a lot of trouble for.

I did give the freezer trick a try (putting the hard drive in a plastic bag and sticking it in the freezer for 15 minutes) but that didn't help. Neither did some light percussive persuasion. Plus it's not making any noise at all and it blue screened the PC a few times when I tried disconnecting and reconnecting it (it was connected to a hot-swappable SATA port) so the electronics could be an issue.

For the record I have had success with the freezer trick in the past. Apparently it can help unstick stuck parts by causing them to contract. Years ago I had a drive die and I hadn't backed up a lot of the files, so once a day I put it in the freezer for a short while, then with a bit of a tap for encouragement it'd spin up. After about 15 minutes of copying files it'd start to make odd noises and Windows would complain about not being able to find one, or something similar, but after about a week I'd managed to retrieve them all.