Modify audio recording level in registry for VVCR and Hauppauge PVR-150

[Music Fan]

Hi,

I capture analog videos with an Hauppauge PVR-150 which allows lossless captures (I use yuy2 Lagarith) when used with VVCR (thanks to its filter "Hauppauge WinTV Color Format Converter 2") on Windows XP 32. Thus I don't need anymore WinTV (which supports only mpeg).

I also use this card to capture the sound but it seems that whatever the tape (VHS, Hi8, in mono or stereo), the peaks are always around 0 db with some little saturations.

There is no way to modify the audio recording level in VVCR (actually there is a setting for that but it stays on -99 db on my pc).
But I found this ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105149/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_reg.html
especially the "Change recording volume" part ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105149/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_reg.html#_Change_recording_volume_(of_tuner)

and this about a Tweak Tool (same goal but with a GUI) ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105219/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_tweak.html

I saw in the registry that the 8775Reg14 and 8775Reg15 keys were set on CF, which means 0 db.
I guess it means that the volume is not amplified.
As there were peaks at this level, I tried -3db with Hauppauge Tweak Tool, and the keys were changed to c9, thus it has an effect, at least on the registry.

The problem is that it doesn't change anything to the recording level with VVCR (I see it with Cool Edit Pro).

And the Automatic Gain Control was already disabled (key set on 08e).

I also changed some settings in hcwtvdlg/audiocontrols but again, no change.

As explained on the Tweak Tool page, "Some of the settings only affect wintv2k, but most affect some third party software as well."

Does it mean the recording volume can not be changed for VVCR or are there other keys to change ?
I didn't find anything related to VVCR in the registry.

For information, I don't have any audio card on this pc, I use motherboard's audio output to hear the sound.

Thanks for your help !

[Music Fan]

By the way, I still have an audio card (Audigy 2 ZS in 2 parts, rear and front rack) that i don't use anymore but I could put it in this pc, admitting it may help and hoping the audio and video would stay in synch.
https://img.audiofanzine.com/images/u/product/normal/creative-labs-sound-blaster-audigy-2-zs-platinum-44563.jpg

This card has maybe a recording level setting but I don't know if it can be used when the recorder is Virtual VCR instead of an audio editor.

[Sharc]

I don't know your HW, but can't you set the audio sensitivity in VVCR via the Tab 'Audio' -> tick 'Capture Audio' -> Input settings -> Input (pulldown menu)? Are the menu settings greyed out or do they just have no effect?
Did you try to change the audio settings via Windows System Control / Audio control ... (depends on your OS)?

I am on W10 and use VVCR with Hauppauge USB-Live2. I haven't used it since long but I tried again just now and the settings seem to work.

Edit:
Darn, I was too optimistic. Now after restarting VVCR I am getting the error from VVCR 'Cannot set custom settings for audio'.

[Music Fan]

Hi,

My HW is specified above (Hauppauge PVR-150 used with Windows XP 32 bit without any audio card, but I have an Audigy 2 ZS that I could put it in this pc). The motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-H77-DS3H.

In the Input settings -> Input, I can't change anything ; there is nothing in the scroll down menu besides "input" and the level comes back to -99 db if I try to change it and the same for the balance which comes back to 0. But the actual level is not -99 db, it seems to be set on 0 db.

In the Audio control of Windows XP, recording audio, I can only change settings for the integrated audio card of the motherboard ; if I select the Hauppauge card, the settings become greyed out.

[StainlessS]

This is probably 'way-off-base' but I seem to remember something from long ago, and where due to a reason that I cannot remember,
that for some audio probs, you had to use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm jack lead and link audio output to audio input and then could use the windows audio level sliders.

Probably a whole load of bollocks, but I thought that I would mention it anyway.

[It might have been some attempt to prevent usage of computer to digital copy audio, ie copyright stuff, some cards were deliberately borked to prevent it - maybe something like that]
EDIT: Whatever it was, it was on XP.

[Music Fan]

that for some audio probs, you had to use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm jack lead and link audio output to audio input and then could use the windows audio level sliders.
Interesting, but where exactly, on the rear panel of the motherboard ?

[StainlessS]

Line-out to line-in.

EDIT: I bought a 6 inch long 3.5mm stereo male to male for just such a purpose, and it was for some type of audio capture.
The Mixer sliders where disabled [or maybe not even visable] until the link was established.
And I think the actual recording was from PCI card.

[Music Fan]

Ok, I tried : the motherboard detected that a cable was inserted but it didn't change anything, the settings stay greyed out in VVCR and in the Windows audio panel :o

I will probaby have to try to record the sound through my Audigy but I'm afraid the sound won't be in synch anymore, or that the level will stay greyed out in VVCR.

[StainlessS]

I guess that it might have also required a registry fix, cant remember.
Sorry to have wasted your time.

[Music Fan]

No problem, I have time (especially these days !).

I'm just hoping that separate captures for audio and video (together but through 2 devices) don't lead to out of synch problems.

And if it doesn't work, I will have to keep the sound with little saturations and will amplify it negatively (or normalize it) to get the peaks below 0 db.

[StainlessS]

Was long time ago, on PIII or even more likely an AMD Athlon 500MHz AMD Ironside chipset machine.
I've did Google search but found nothing promising.
EDIT: 2004/2005.

[Sharc]

Try another capture software, like VirtualDub2 instead of VirtualVCR. Does it recognize the HW? Is the problem the same?

[StainlessS]

This looks like it, or at least related, but no fix:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_card

Crippling of features
Main article: Crippleware

Most new sound cards no longer have the audio loopback device commonly called "Stereo Mix"/"Wave out mix"/"Mono Mix"/"What U Hear"
that was once very prevalent and that allows users to digitally record speaker output to the microphone input.

Lenovo and other manufacturers fail to implement the chipset feature in hardware, while other manufacturers disable the driver from supporting it.
In some cases loopback can be reinstated with driver updates (as in the case of some Dell computers[11]); alternatively software (Total Recorder or
Virtual Audio Cable) can be purchased to enable the functionality. According to Microsoft, the functionality was hidden by default in Windows Vista
(to reduce user confusion), but is still available, as long as the underlying sound card drivers and hardware support it.[12] Ultimately, the user can
connect the line out directly to the line in (analog hole).

In laptops, manufacturers have gradually moved from providing 3 separate jacks with TRS connectors - usually for line in, line out/headphone
out and microphone in to just a single combo jack with TRRS connector that combines microphone in and line out.

I'll leave it to you if you wish to chase it further. [maybe a real old sound blaster would work, if you could find one]

[Music Fan]

Ok but it does not work.
Does it concern Windows 7 too ?
Because actually I also have Windows 7 on this pc in dual boot, I never tried this Hauppauge and VVCR with Windows 7.

Anyway I will have to re-install the Audigy because it has fire-wire and I will need it soon to copy some mini-DV tapes.
Thus I can try to use it to copy audio for analog captures.

Try another capture software, like VirtualDub2 instead of VirtualVCR. Does it recognize the HW? Is the problem the same?
I believe I tried it years ago but there had problems or the Hauppauge was not recognized, I don't remember.
It seems that only VVCR handles it correctly and most of all, allows lossless captures with this card.

[StainlessS]

Does it concern Windows 7 too ?
I presume so.

Did you see the wikipedia [12] (forgot what its called, the link to reference) in my linked paragraph, points here:- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/archive/blogs/larryosterman/whatever-happened-to-wave-out-mix

EDIT:
Whatever happened to Wave Out Mix?

11/07/2008
2 minutes to read

The Intertubes are all atwitter with reports that Dell and other OEMs colluded with the RIAA to disable the Wave Out Mix option on new laptops.

Wow, what a tempest in a teapot. I just LOVE watching conspiracy theories as the echo chamber does it’s magic.



And of course it’s almost certainly hogwash (I don’t know for sure, but I do know that some of the rumors are totally stupid).

First off, what is Wave Out Mix? It’s an option that some audio manufacturers added to their audio hardware (Creative calls it “What U Hear”).
Typically the Wave Out Mix is implemented by connecting the analog output from the DAC (Digital-to-Audio Converter) to a specific input on the
ADC (Analog-to-Digital Converter) which is labeled as “Wave Out Mix”.

If you record on the Wave Out Mix input, you will capture the samples that are being played via Wave Out.



In Windows Vista, by default we only enable microphone, line in and digital inputs to the audio hardware (the theory being that users typically
only want to be able to listen to those inputs). If the audio solution offers other inputs, they’re still there but we bury them somewhat.

You can find those additional inputs in mmsys if you start the sound control panel and go to the “Recording” tab. If you right click and
select “Show Disabled Devices” you can enable those alternate inputs.

In addition, these days many OEMs don’t bother adding the Wave Out Mix support. It costs slightly more to order chips with Wave Out
Mix support than it does to order chips without the functionality, and OEMs are incredibly cost conscious.
The other reason is that for those OEMs that implemented the Wave Out Mix with an analog tap, you can achieve almost the same
results with a $2.50 analog cable run between the output and the line in input of the machine.



Part of the reason that I know that this is just a conspiracy theory running rampant is that Windows Vista built the support for the
Wave Out Mix input directly into the operating system. If you pass the AUDCLNT_STREAMFLAGS_LOOPBACK flag to the
#IAudioClient::Initialize method, then the audio system will initialize the engine in loopback mode.
You can start capturing data off that IAudioClient object and you’ll get the post-mix output for the endpoint.

The loopback support was designed primarily for use by AEC functionality (which needs to be able to know what samples are
being played), but it also allows you to perform essentially the same functionality as the Wave Out Mix hardware used to do.

If you want to play with the loopback functionality, the WinAudio SDK sample application allows you to capture using the loopback functionality.

Maybe do a google search using some terms from above, maybe there is a simple guide or something.

[Music Fan]

I know why it doesn't work with Windows 7 (64 bit) : the driver of the Hauppauge can't be installed on it, I just tried ("OS not compatible").
I'm gonna pursue my investigation with the Audigy (on XP).

[Music Fan]

Did you see the wikipedia [12] (forgot what its called, the link to reference) in my linked paragraph, points here:- https://docs.microsoft.com/en-gb/archive/blogs/larryosterman/whatever-happened-to-wave-out-mix
I read it.
Anyway, I wonder why the level of the tapes is always around 0 db with VVCR, because I remember that when I recorded some VHS's audio to mini-disc (or to pc through a sound card), the level was always below 0 db.

That's why my initial question was about a possible problem with the driver (that I tried to modify without success in the registry).

[StainlessS]

I know why it doesn't work with Windows 7 (64 bit) : the driver of the Hauppauge can't be installed on it, I just tried ("OS not compatible").
I'm gonna pursue my investigation with the Audigy (on XP).
Yeh, lack of 64 driver aint good.

There's some stuff bout same thing here (for Vista, but no doubt applicable to w7 too.):- https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/ie/en-US/e725bb7c-607c-410a-a495-9c92987a34c4/how-to-record-from-wave-or-stereo-mix-in-vista?forum=windowspro-audiodevelopment
Above link found with google search ""Wave out mix" 3.5mm jack".
EDIT: Guy suggests he is gonna go back and try with XP and Audigy card.

Would be good if you could entice an audio developer to take an interest in your thread.
(I know little/nothing bout it, and aint done anything like that since back then in about 2004/2005, dont have any audio cards any more, chucked out at least a half dozen cards about 4 or more years ago).

EDIT: I note that the "Analogue capture guide" in sticky is no longer available, www.doom9.org is dead for some time now.
EDIT: The Mirror capture guide is also dead, although the "A compiled chm file" version is still live [have not looked at it, no idea if audio is covered].

[manolito]

I found this on the Hauppauge site about the PVR 150:
https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/support/support_pvr150.html

Note: This driver can be used with Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7.
Note: This driver can be used in a 32bit or 64bit system with less than 4gigs of ram

So after installing the latest drivers this card should work under Win7-64.
And if all else fails then it is a good idea to connect the audio to a separate sound card. Of course this will cause sync problems because there are 2 different oscillators for video and audio, but even on my ancient and weak XP machine VirtualDub and (mostly) also VirtualVCR have no problem to keep audio in sync by resampling the audio on the fly during capturing.

Good luck
manolito

[Music Fan]

Thanks, I tried this fw on Win 7 but there are 2 big problems : the video filter needed to make lossless capture is not present in the filter list and the card is not detected in the audio part.
Thus I will have to continue with XP.

[Music Fan]

I made something bad : I also tried this recent fw on XP, but VVCR didn't detect the Hauppauge in the audio part anymore and I saw that some keys disappeared of the registry.
Thus I tried to re-install my old driver but it was refused because too old, thus I erased a folder in the registry and I could re-install my old driver again, but there is no audio anymore. :o

So I decided to re-install XP with the cd but after 1 minute the installation stops and there is an error message : "a problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down ..." :(

Do you believe it's linked to the fact this pc is in dual boot ?
I have EasyBCD on XP (which is on the first partition, Win 7 being on the second).

[Music Fan]

I made a restoration to a 3 days back point with EasyBCD and fortunately recovered the good settings in VVCR and registry keys.:)

I learned 2 things about this card when used with VVCR, I absolutely have to use ;
-Windows XP (32 bit in my case, I didn't try the 64 bit version)
-my old Hauppauge driver (only XP compatible).

Now I have to test the Audigy.

[Music Fan]

And if all else fails then it is a good idea to connect the audio to a separate sound card. Of course this will cause sync problems because there are 2 different oscillators for video and audio, but even on my ancient and weak XP machine VirtualDub and (mostly) also VirtualVCR have no problem to keep audio in sync by resampling the audio on the fly during capturing.
I forgot to answer that part : it seems a little bit contradictory because you say there will be sync problems but that you could keep audio in sync :scared:
If you check "resampling" in VVCR, there are no problem but if you don't, there are ?

[manolito]

I forgot to answer that part : it seems a little bit contradictory because you say there will be sync problems but that you could keep audio in sync :scared:
If you check "resampling" in VVCR, there are no problem but if you don't, there are ?

If video AND audio are handled by the same A/D chip then there should be no sync problems. As your card has an audio input I was led to believe that this is the case for your card. But after downloading and studying the manual I found out that I was wrong:
Your PC’s sound card is used to amplify the audio during “live” TV,
record and playback. The WinTV application’s Volume Adjust slide-
bar adjusts the volume by raising and lowering the WaveOut volume
control in the sound card

This means that audio is routed to your sound card for converting it to digital. And the sound card uses a separate oscillator which never runs at the exact same speed as the oscillator of the video capture card. Sync problems are inevitable, but the capture software can take care of the sync problems.

These are my VDub settings for the capture timing. Since my computer is very slow I need to capture "blind" (no video preview during capturing), but with these settings I always get perfect results.

https://i.postimg.cc/66rtQ7jk/timing.png (https://postimages.org/)

Your other issues seem to be driver related. Ideally you should not need the Win TV application at all after installing the hardware drivers correctly. In your device manager you should see the capture card under "Audio-, Video- and Game Controller", and the built-in sound card of your computer should also appear there. And if there are no glitches you should be able to adjust the audio recording level in the Windows audio mixer under "Recording".

[Music Fan]

These are my VDub settings for the capture timing.
Ok, I will test with the Audigy and VVCR.

Ideally you should not need the Win TV application at all after installing the hardware drivers correctly.
I know, I didn't even install WinTV, only the drivers.

In your device manager you should see the capture card under "Audio-, Video- and Game Controller", and the built-in sound card of your computer should also appear there. And if there are no glitches you should be able to adjust the audio recording level in the Windows audio mixer under "Recording".
Yes, but my original goal was to use the Hauppauge card for the sound too, and as I said earlier, the settings stay greyed out and the volume can not be modified in Windows and VVCR with this card.
Thus if I wanna avoid clipping in the sound, I will have to record the sound with the Audigy (admitting there is no clipping anymore), but there will probably be synch problems.
I'm gonna test it soon and will tell what happens.

[Music Fan]

I noticed something crazy : I put my Audigy in my pc, I disabled in the Bios the audio controller (which is related to the integrated audio card in the motherboard), and before to install the drivers of the Audigy, I wanted to verify if all settings were still ok in VVCR.

And there I see that ;
-the input video is not detected anymore (nothing in the scroll down list) while it has nothing to do with the audio controller :confused:,
-the Hauppauge is not set anymore as the audio input
-I get an error message about IAMStreamConfig.
:rolleyes:

I shut down the pc, enabled again the audio controller in the Bios and the good settings came back in VVCR.:scared:

What the hell is going on with this pc ?:o

[Music Fan]

I tried the last thing I hadn't tried yet : setting the onboard audio card as audio recording device instead of the Hauppauge, and in this case I can change the audio recording level in VVCR ! :)

After a few tests, I put 29 as line audio level to avoid clipping.
In the AV Sync tab, I have to check resample, otherwise the sound is not in 48 khz but 40567 hz or something like that.

But there are 2 options for this : resample dynamically or resample in percentage (it's on 100 % by default).
I didn't notice any difference (at first sight in Cool Edit Pro), thus I don't know which one to choose.:confused:

I still have to see if recording this way does not create synch problems.

edit : I found this interesting explanation about resample in VVCR ;
http://virtualvcr.sourceforge.net/html/virtualvcr/sync.php

[manolito]

Your PC’s sound card is used to amplify the audio during “live” TV,
record and playback. The WinTV application’s Volume Adjust slide-
bar adjusts the volume by raising and lowering the WaveOut volume
control in the sound card

Did you overlook this in my previous post? This is taken from the PVR-150 manual so I guess that it is true.

The Hauppauge card just fools you into thinking that it also processes the audio. IT DOES NOT, it sends the audio unmodified to your integrated soundcard and lets the soundcard do the A/D conversion.

In your VVCR settings you need to pick the soundcard's Line In (or maybe the Aux In) as the audio source, and then you should be able to adjust the recording level. And for keeping audio in sync with video you should use "Resample Audio Dynamically".

[Music Fan]

Did you overlook this in my previous post? This is taken from the PVR-150 manual so I guess that it is true.

The Hauppauge card just fools you into thinking that it also processes the audio. IT DOES NOT, it sends the audio unmodified to your integrated soundcard and lets the soundcard do the A/D conversion.
I hadn't understood it that way because I believed it concerned only WinTV.
I thought that the line input on the Hauppauge meant that an A/D converter was included in this card.
What you say means that if there is no onboard audio card, there is no audio in the capture.:confused:
Or they all have onboard audio card, perhaps.

If it works that way, it means that the sound has the exact same quality than if I select the Hauppauge as audio device in VVCR. And my fear was to have a lower quality with the onboard card's Line In, that's why I didn't try it earlier.

In your VVCR settings you need to pick the soundcard's Line In (or maybe the Aux In) as the audio source, and then you should be able to adjust the recording level.
That's what I finally did, I explained it in my previous post.

And for keeping audio in sync with video you should use "Resample Audio Dynamically".
Ok, that's what I understood after reading the page about resample (see my edit also in my previous post).