Current HEVC Licensing Situation - Is it Getting Better or Is It Too Late?

[mikeiz]

Recently Huawei, LG, and Technicolor joined HEVC Advance showing some consolidation of patent pools. I'm not sure about the validity of the Velos patent pool from what I've read. How many companies are still outside any of these patent pools? How are companies handling this? Do they sign licensing agreements with these companies outside the pool individually, or do they take their chances?

[videoh]

Hey Mike, just a little heads up so you don't get in trouble. Cross-posting is not allowed. See #8 here.

https://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm

Cue the DG-deranged!

[mikeiz]

Got it. Thanks.

[ksec]

I say In terms of Licensing ( and not technical ), it properly is too late in the game for those NOT currently have any HEVC licensing deal.

VVC / H.266 is only few months from finalising, and judging from Initial Reference Encoder it seems to offer Lots of potential. Much more so than the H.264 to H.265 jump. Everyone is putting all the energy into it.

MC-IF is formed to avoid the mistake of HEVC licensing, and as far as I can tell. It has everybody on board ( Apart from Google ). By everybody I mean all the three patent pool in HEVC and others that were missing from those three pools.

It is purely my assumption, that should you have a licenses with MC-IF, it would have included everything in HEVC. Given VVC is built on top of HEVC.

And that is of course assuming MC-IF could get a deal together. Having everyone in the same organisation doesn't mean they will play well together.

My view is that the licensing terms should not include any cost per bandwidth / streaming, and software implementation should be free. This will allow the widest possible adoption with Software Decoder, and an image format based on VVC. Instead collect royalty on Hardware encoder and decoder unit. The world ships 1 billon smartphones with HEVC hardware. Assuming no Caps per companies that would have equate to $1B annually VVC royalty on a $1 per devices. And that is Smartphone alone, there are hundreds of millions from PC to gadget that features Hardware encoder and decoder.

On a consumer level, you are likely paying somewhere around $3 for VVC in your final retail purchase price, That is everything from VVC's Patent IP, Actual Hardware Encoder and Decoder IP, Die Size cost on SoC, plus the usual ~50% margin from Smartphone companies.

Personally I would be very happy to pay $3 for VVC.

[oibaf]

It looks like B1 Institute of Image Technology, INC. on 2024-01-25 terminated licensing to Via Licensing HEVC Patent Pool. Page 42 of https://www.via-la.com/wp-content/uploads/January-1-2024-HEVC-Attachment-1-Revised-January-25-2024.pdf

[hajj_3]

via-la now have the ability to license hevc and vvc as a joint licensing pool: https://www.via-la.com/hevc-vvc-tcl-2024/

[oibaf]

Dolby Laboratories to acquire GE Licensing in $429m deal (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dolby-laboratories-acquire-ge-licensing-101608757.html)

Technology company Dolby Laboratories has announced a definitive agreement to acquire GE Licensing from GE Aerospace in an all-cash deal valued at $429m.The inclusion of GE Licencing’s video codec technology patents such as HEVC and VVC will complement and expand Dolby's existing intellectual property portfolio.

[hajj_3]

Dolby Laboratories to acquire GE Licensing in $429m deal (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dolby-laboratories-acquire-ge-licensing-101608757.html)

they are in the same patent pools so i doubt this will have any effect. GE probably just wanted some short-term income.

[oibaf]

Dolby's HEVC EPO patent found invalid

On May 22, 2024, the European Patent Office revoked the original claims of EP 3767950, owned by Dolby International AB. The original claims of EP‘950 were identified as essential to the Access Advance Patent Pool.

https://www.unifiedpatents.com/insights/2024/6/21/dolbys-hevc-epo-patent-found-invalid

Another ETRI HEVC patent revoked in EPO

On June 6, 2024, the European Patent Office announced the revocation of all claims of EP 2672708. The EP ‘708 patent is owned by the Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI). The patent is related to patents that have been declared essential to Access Advance and SISVEL’s AV1 and VP9 patent pools.

https://www.unifiedpatents.com/insights/2024/6/10/another-etri-hevc-patent-revoked-in-epo

[hajj_3]

https://accessadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/2024Q4-HEVC-Patent-Diagram-10-01-24-1440x1080.jpg

[oibaf]

Via LA licensors sue Microsoft for patent violation in Germany (https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=168812)

[oibaf]

https://accessadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/2025Q1-HEVC-Patent-Diagram-01-01-25-2048x1536.jpg

[excellentswordfight]

Via LA licensors sue Microsoft for patent violation in Germany (https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=168812)
Interesting, I assume that Microsoft pretty much taken a gamble (calculated risk) here to see what would happen? Cause that devices capable of decoding is is under a license-fee is a known thing, and the reason why HEVC decoding was not bundled in W10 previously. With HEVC, you are always under the risk that a "rogue" patent holder can try some shenanigans (e.g. broadcom used theirs in a dispute with Netflix), but I find it very odd that a company like Microsoft doesnt have a valid agreement with at least the two big pools for a change like this.

As someone that works with content distribution, tbh I dont think the HEVC-licensing is that much of an issue (at least not anymore), but everytime there is a case like this, it will drive businesses away from MPEG-codecs and towards AOMedia.

[benwaggoner]

Interesting, I assume that Microsoft pretty much taken a gamble (calculated risk) here to see what would happen? Cause that devices capable of decoding is is under a license-fee is a known thing, and the reason why HEVC decoding was not bundled in W10 previously. With HEVC, you are always under the risk that a "rogue" patent holder can try some shenanigans (e.g. broadcom used theirs in a dispute with Netflix), but I find it very odd that a company like Microsoft doesnt have a valid agreement with at least the two big pools for a change like this.

As someone that works with content distribution, tbh I dont think the HEVC-licensing is that much of an issue (at least not anymore), but everytime there is a case like this, it will drive businesses away from MPEG-codecs and towards AOMedia.
Yeah. For smaller companies the odds of winning enough money aren't worth going after them. But once you're in the >$1T market cap club, even a fraction of a chance of a tiny fraction of that money can be very tempting.

The AOM founders have real skin in this game.

[hajj_3]

https://accessadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/2025Q4-HEVC-Patent-Diagram-10-01-25a.jpg

The only significant change is that Sharp has joined the HEVC advance patent pool.

[oibaf]

Via LA licensors sue Microsoft for patent violation in Germany (https://www.streamingmedia.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=168812)

BREAKING: Microsoft takes Via LA HEVC patent pool license (https://ipfray.com/breaking-microsoft-takes-via-la-hevc-patent-pool-license/)

BREAKING: Via LA licensors M&K, Gensquare LLC, Tagivan II suing next Big Tech defendant Amazon in Germany over HEVC SEPs (https://ipfray.com/breaking-via-la-licensors-mk-gensquare-llc-tagivan-ii-suing-next-big-tech-defendant-amazon-in-germany-over-hevc-seps/)

[hajj_3]

access advance increased their royalty costs a few months ago by 20-25% starting from 1st Jan 2026 and increased the enterprise cap by up to 50%.

Previous royalties:

https://i.ibb.co/8nb5yFX8/access-advance.png

New royalties:

https://i.ibb.co/8D9Pc1w6/access-advance2.png

[oibaf]

The same for VIA-LA: https://via-la.com/licensing-programs/hevc-vvc/#license-fees

[excellentswordfight]

And it looks like its having effects...

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/11/hp-and-dell-disable-hevc-support-built-into-their-laptops-cpus/

This is completely ridiculous... Like WTF, HEVC, after over 10years it has pretty much finally universal support, and in HW even. Its at a point of adoption, maturity and support that TBH that if they could get their licensingshenanigans out of their a** HEVC could replace h264 as some sort of universial baseline for videoencdoing... Well well, keep digging, good news for aomedia i guess.

[oibaf]

Access Advance and Via Licensing Alliance Announce HEVC/VVC Program Acquisition (https://accessadvance.com/2025/12/15/access-advance-and-via-licensing-alliance-announce-hevc-vvc-program-acquisition/)

Access Advance LLC and Via Licensing Alliance announced today Access Advance’s acquisition of Via’s HEVC/VVC program, a move that will simplify the video licensing landscape and provide greater clarity and efficiency for licensors and licensees worldwide.

[oibaf]

https://accessadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/2026Q1-HEVC-Patent-Diagram-01-01-26-1200x900.jpg

[Z2697]

Why are the images so compressed though?

[oibaf]

UPC grants InterDigital second 11-country injunction against Disney
https://ipfray.com/breaking-upc-grants-interdigital-second-11-country-injunction-against-disney/

[kurkosdr]

https://accessadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/2026Q1-HEVC-Patent-Diagram-01-01-26-1200x900.jpg
So, one patent pool administrator (Access Advance) owns two patent pools for the same standard (HEVC) now? Wasn't the whole point of patent pool administrators to gather all holders under a single pool of theirs? I am not saying what Access Advance is doing is illegal (it's not), but I expected them to keep up the pretenses (that they try to unite all holders under one pool).

UPC grants InterDigital second 11-country injunction against Disney
https://ipfray.com/breaking-upc-grants-interdigital-second-11-country-injunction-against-disney/

I don't understand what Disney is trying to achieve here. Interdigital participated in the drafting of the HEVC standard, so, HEVC was "designed to infringe" on Interdigital's patents. Paying companies like Interdigital is something you sign up for as a streamer when you make the choice to use HEVC (which is why YouTube has never used HEVC, for example).

[oibaf]

https://accessadvance.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/2026Q3-HEVC-Patent-Diagram-07-01-26-Read-Only-1200x900.jpg

[ksec]

Incase people don't realise, that is an additional 2000 patents added across all three bodies.

( I am secretly hoping they could revive EVC Baseline. Oh well. )

[excellentswordfight]

UPC grants InterDigital second 11-country injunction against Disney
https://ipfray.com/breaking-upc-grants-interdigital-second-11-country-injunction-against-disney/
And the fallout has started, it looks like now Disney have tuned off of all (?) hevc streams in multiple european countries, and customers have no longer access to HDR content on Disney+ as i assume they dont have any AV1-HDR streams to use as fallback.

I don't understand what Disney is trying to achieve here. Interdigital participated in the drafting of the HEVC standard, so, HEVC was "designed to infringe" on Interdigital's patents. Paying companies like Interdigital is something you sign up for as a streamer when you make the choice to use HEVC (which is why YouTube has never used HEVC, for example).
Afaik, the industry started to ignored royalties for streaming-content when HEVC Advance/ Access Advance removed it in 2015, and it hasnt been until the last couple of years that they have come to collect, I know that companies has made licenses agreements very recently with differnt stakeholders while having provided hevc for about 10y to costumers... And this case looks a bit like the same as in the broadcom case, its not only HEVC patents that InterDigital are fighting with Disney about, they have also sued Disney about HDR, video overlay and subtitle overlay prior to this, so this wasnt strictly about HEVC, they probably wanted to make a deal with Disney and Disney didnt, now they are suing them all over the place and ofc they will come for HEVC given how central that would be to their operations.

Anyone more knowledgeable here? This looks like a very dangerous ruling for HEVC, no? If any of the unaffiliated patent holder, can come and demand money, were does it stop? Like there are so many of them outside the pools, how would it be possible to pay them all?

[oibaf]

It looks like Disney switched from HEVC to VP9: https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1785834485

[-Murali-]

How good is VP9 though? I keep seeing it on certain ones but always felt it is inferior compared to HEVC and others.

[benwaggoner]

How good is VP9 though? I keep seeing it on certain ones but always felt it is inferior compared to HEVC and others.
VP9 innately inferior to HEVC in terms of available coding tools, and HEVC has much more refine, psychovisually optimized, and performant encoders available. VP9 had some limitations that made interframe parallelism very challenging.

[Z2697]

VP9 innately inferior to HEVC in terms of available coding tools, and HEVC has much more refine, psychovisually optimized, and performant encoders available. VP9 had some limitations that made interframe parallelism very challenging.

At a glance what I can tell is less intra angles and no SAO equivalent, and that's basically it?
Same max CU/SB size, same TU/TX size...

Some test even suggest VP9 is slightly better than HEVC (I doubt that).
From Wikipedia:
Netflix, after a large test in August 2016, concluded that libvpx was 20% less efficient than x265, but by October the same year also found that tweaking encoding parameters could "reduce or even reverse the gap between VP9 and HEVC".
Not sure what they meant by "tweaking parameters".

[rwill]

At a glance what I can tell is less intra angles and no SAO equivalent, and that's basically it?
Same max CU/SB size, same TU/TX size...

Some test even suggest VP9 is slightly better than HEVC (I doubt that).
From Wikipedia:

Not sure what they meant by "tweaking parameters".

VP9 is more limited regarding coding. For example no flexible transform quadtree and only a cumbersome to use delta QP...