New Size For Cd

[movmasty]

difference between 650mb and 4.7gigs is huge.
if someone will make an intermediate, what will be the best for you?

1) 1000mb, almost as cheap as now

2) 1300mb, a little more expensive

3) 2000mb, expensive

4) better wait for cheaper dvd-rw

[movmasty]

another thing, anyone knows the 2.5gigs dvd format?

[Vanos_b]

Big question mark ! Would this formats be compatible with nowadays CD-ROMs. 1 GB could be achieved on a 120 minutes CD compatible with CD-ROM/R/RW but I don't know about 1.3 (2 GB is out o discussion). So if I had to buy an expensive drive I'd better stick with DVD, otherwise I would prefer to pay a little more on the media: more capacity -> more money, it's obvious!

[movmasty]

@Vanos_b
is clear that the player for double CD will be compatible with old 650m format, is simple to read less density disks
also some dvd player reproduces CD.

i see many "wait for DVD", but the gap between 650m and 4.7g is too huge, and need to be filled.

note that CD cant go lower than 25c, for commercial,transport and storage,reasons,
then a double CD will soon cost as a cd now.
will need like 15 years for a dvd to cost half dollar.

[TactX]

will need like 15 years for a dvd to cost half dollar

lol

but only 15 moths to cost one dollar !

[Vanos_b]

I was talking about CDs that I could read with the drive I own now (right now is a BTC DVD 12x/40x - incredible slow on seeking 500 ms !!!, I can't wait to get rid of it). 120 minutes CDs can be read with "normal" (but of course good to very good) CD-ROMs (although I've never seen such CDs). I know that some newer technologies could be applied to CDR-ROMs with quiet few expenses, so drives that could read double density CDs wouldn't be very expensive, but I'm more concerned about compatibility because maybe I would pay a few extra bucks for this kind of drive, but my friend wouldn't. Look what happend with Sony DD 1.3 GB CDs.

[MxxCon]

didn't yamaha or tdk announced 2gig cdrw?
i belive they said it'll be somehow backwards compatible.

[Vanos_b]

It's TDK and it's using multilevel technology (something about writing on 7 layers or something). They say it uses the same media (under 1$), only the laser of the drive has to be changed. And of course it's backwards compatible, but if you want to read a normal CD-R burned with multilevel you still had to use a multilevel drive.

[movmasty]

i dont undersand the necessity to use multiple layers when making a disk around 1300mb........

[KoVaR]

my vote for the 2000mb is still the only one........

[mava70]

In the usa you can find Pioneer DVD Recorder at 350 US$

[movmasty]

@KoVaR
maybe smaller means more flexible?

@mava70
ok, but maybe sometimes 4.7gigs is too much, also for data storage,
something "in between" would be useful.

[scs0]

Who cares whether or not 4.7GB of data is too much for a DVD disc? All that really matters is price and compatibility. If a DVD-R cost less than a CD-R, I'd probably put a 500MB file onto my DVD-R. As more and more DVD-Rs are manufactured, economies of scale will continue to drive the cost down even further. The last time I bought a DVD-R on the net it was only $2.76 (for a 25 pack spindle), that's a serious price collapse from a year ago so it's quite logical to assume the price will keep dropping in the future.

A *new* 1GB or 2GB style disc would interfere with the adoption of the superior DVD-R format and slow the drop in its price. New discs would also have to undergo their own economies-of-scale process meaning a new format would probably cost more and provide less storage than a DVD. New formats mean more incompatibility in the PC industry, and the last thing the industry needs is even more incompatibilities.

[mixanobios]

i think dvd-r is not 4,7 GB but only 4 GB.Anyway, it is very small and it will not last for long.Why?
Let me explain ;

1)when cdr got into the market it was larger than the average hard disk and 400 times larger than the next largest common removable storage,floppy disk.while dvdr will be at least 15 times SMALLER than the average hard disk and 6.5 times larger than CDR when it gets reasonably cheap.

2)dvdr is too small to copy a whole dvd in it (Without any prossesing), and is quite small for high quality-resolution(Definition) video recording.

3)The average hdd today is 40 GB and cost/GB is about 2.5 Euros/GB in greece.so, lets say in one year from now,an average dvdr drive will cost 300 Euros and a 4.7 gb disk 3 euros(now it costs 13). So, if you buy a dvdr and 100 disks they will cost you 600 Euros and you will get 400-470 GB of capacity. With that amount of money you will be able to buy a 400 GB hard disk.

So, our only hope is blue ray dvd (27 GB/layer).That should last for about 5-7 years

[movmasty]

ok, maybe the 1000mb option is out of date,
cause 1300mb is quite small too.
in fact i started this pool 8 months ago on another board.

but i think that for the next 6/8 years 1300mb will be more manageble than 4gigs.

[chemmajik]

2 Gig seems best because it allows for the greater flexibility of getting near perfect movie 2-3cd's of today. I've done some 45min 720/640 clips that have managed to fit on 650mgs. I'd rather get all movies moving over to minimum 640x480 format I just dont like the lower quality of 360/324 resolutions.

[movmasty]

i think that 1300mb is more flexible,
lets 2 cd divx,and 2600mb in 2 disks for SVCD,
else if you need more than 2000mb for svcd you will be forced to use 4000mb.

[vorbis]

hate to tell you this, but a lot of people are currently content with the standard cdr. There's a lot of people simply using them for music. It suits their purpose quite fine. Besides, I doubt any disk maker is going to respond to the needs of the divx community. Can u imagine a range of disks that are there soley to give higher quality movie copies? In the removable storage market, the demand is not yet there for gigabyte + disks. Only a small minority (graphics people, us ;-)) actually need them.

[auenf]

and everyone seems to be forgetting the 8cm DVDs

Enf...

[movmasty]

@vorbis
>I doubt any disk maker is going to respond to the needs of the divx community

-i dont think its in that way.
i read on the web that double CDs exists in Asia from a while,and i suppose players and burners too.

double CD should allow 130min of VCD recording,a whole movie on one disk then,
or 50mins of pcm audio at 96khz-24bits, that is a little nearer to hi-fi than the crappy 44khz-16bits,
and also a better backup of hd.
then "DVDbackup comunity" could also use 'em.

Now im going to buy a new burner, with basic price at 80$,and disks at 40c,i would like very much to be able,NOW,to buy a writer for double CD at,maybe,not more than 110$,with disks under one dollar.
I'd like,immediately,to use an higer capacity media, and not to wait, also few years, for DVD burner.
maybe any disk maker would make some money producing them,or maybe they are giving to us,but 5 minutes at time,maybe in 6 months we'll have to buy a new burner for "those disks of 109 minutes"...
or maybe ookamy could import that stuff from japan,and sell us...
ok, ill stick with the 99mins CD........

@auenf
well, 80mm DVD should have around 1.3gigs of capacity....with all the difficulties to burn dvd now.
why should i use an expensive dvd of 80mm when i could use a cheap CD of 120mm ???

and about CD of 80mm, they have 185mb of space now,
a double density CD of 80mm would be 370mb,enough to store a low quality divx.........

[movmasty]

look what i just found

Sony Corporation today announced plans to develop a "Double Density CD-ROM/-R/-RW" with 1.3GB data capacity. The Double Density CD formats are designed to provide a natural migration path for both consumers and manufacturers alike, as the new formats offer a low-cost solution to high capacity discs that inherit the basic specifications of the CD formats. This allows manufacturers to utilize their current CD technologies and production facilities to manufacture Double Density CDs

Double Density CD formats' high capacity is realized by a few simple modifications to the CD formats. To increase data density, track-pitch and minimum pit length are miniaturized to increase the data capacity from 650MB to 1.3GB. To accommodate higher physical bit density, a parameter in the error-correction scheme (CIRC) has been changed, and the address format (ATIP) has been expanded. A copy control scheme will be included in the format to meet the increasing demands for secure content protection. The remaining areas inherit the basic specifications of the conventional CD formats to make use of the existing CD infrastructure

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Double Density CD . . . . . . . . Conventional CD

-Data Capacity . . 1.3GB (2048B/sector). . . CD-ROM (Mode1)/-R/-RW:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 650MB (2048B/sector)
- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Wavelength
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 780nm
-Objective Lens . Playback: NA=0.50 . . . . Playback: NA=0.45
. . . . . . Record/Playback: NA=0.55 . . . . Record/Playback: NA=0.50
- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Disk Size
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Diameter: 120mm
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Thickness: 1.2mm
-Track Pitch . . . . . 1.1 um . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.6 um

Minimum Pit Length . 0.623 um . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.833 um
-Scanning Velocity . . 0.90 m/s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.2 - 1.4 m/s
-Error Correction . . . CIRC7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CIRC
- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Modulation
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . EFM


BUT............
The formats are being finalized for licensing by September 2000(!)

THEN WHERE IS IT ?????

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Articles/Sources/Sony%20DDCD%20Format/Page_00.asp