business

[dvdwizard]

Thinking about starting a small video conversion business. VHS, DV, etc. to DVD. Need info. on equipment suggestions and business related advice. Thank in advance!;)

[SiC]

I actually do the same as a side business, mostly DV though. Edit wedding videos, vacations, etc. in DV format then burn to DVD. Since native DV is interlaced, settings for encoders are alot different. You should goto MB1's site, it has a really good matrix and other settings for converting DV to MPEG2 with CCE (http://members.s2u.org/hobby/mb1svcd/dv.htm).
I usually encode my DV with CCE using his settings & matrix at 5500kbps 3-pass VBR with 192kbps 2 channel AC3 encoded with Sonic Foundry Soft Encode.
Another thing you might want to know is that DV codecs makes a big difference in compression time to MPEG2. I found out that Canopus DV is the fastest and Pinnacle DV is the slowest. Here's the time it took to render 5min of DV with different codecs with CCE:
1. Pinnacle DV 9min 10seconds
2. MS DV (AVI2) 4min 50seconds
3. MainConcept DV (2.04) 4min 9seconds
4. Canopus DV (AVI2) 3min 58seconds
All of these files were the same clip just with different DV headers. I used Canopus DV converter (free at Canopus site) to convert my DV to the Canopus DV format. This makes a huge difference in time when you're encoding a 2 hour DV clip to MPEG2, specially at 3-4 pass VBR.
If you have any questions about settings, etc. feel free to ask.

[Jestorius]

Take a look at Pinnacle DV500 pluss (at least). It's a almost outgoing product, you can buy a used one cheap I'm shure. And It has a bundled software packet just to your business. You need licence if you gonna sell something. It has a hardware accelerated mpeg2 encoding directly from Premier. Has DV inn/out and analog inn/out. Some of the effects are realtime effects. Works well and the latest driver is more then good.
I'm using it in the company with Sony PD150P DVCam and BetaSp (S-VHS ut via PD150) Just for editing and output to BetaSP I use DPS Perception PVR with component inn/out. Burning is a A03.

Start your services as a hobby. Don't think it gonna be money out of it at the begining. Just ask yourselv, would you like to pay for the services you offer if you were a regular customer? Just to convert a VHS or DV to mpeg and author a DVD - how much would you pay for it?
And if you are in DVD-authoring - how much you gonna invest? You need licence!!!

The software: If you gonna offer more then a 50 buks software and your neighbor can do, take a look at Pinnacle Impression DVD-PRO.
It offers much of the DVD standard. Subtitles, Videotracks etc.

Ulead DVD Factory and your neighbor with his mini-DV cam is just for to kill your business. He sayes, I can do this why should I pay for it.

If you can make wedding , it is the best start, go for it. Here in Scandinaia it isn't a bussiness. I do industry presentations, and animations.

But first of all. Make a Demo, use as much time it takes to make it perfect. Take a look at the Hollywood DVD-s and "steal", "steal" ideas. It's a learning process not stealing actually . Implement the best of your "stealing" in your DEMO. At least, use more then you will to advertising.

[auenf]

or look at the Canopus DVStorm with optional MPEG-2 hardware encoder (the addon is basically the same as what the canopus amber uses).

Enf...

[SiC]

I own a Pinnacle DV500 myself and I don't like it. It's suppose to have RT rendering transitions & other video effects but it's only for Win98. I'm running Win2k or WinXP and you can't use any of the RT features. Another thing about the DV500 is that the MPEG2 encoding software that it's bundled with is pure caca. The quality is too crappy and you cant make fine adjustments so you'll need a third party encoder such as CCE which is probably the best. Also to playback video that you captured with the DV500, you need to hookup the break out box to the external input of your sound card to have sound. That is crappy, you cant even hear the sounds from your video unless you connect the break out box to your sound card externally.

I would recommend the Canopus DVStorm-RT which has analog & DV input/output. The Canopus DV is alot faster than the Pinnacle DV for compressing to MPEG2, that and the RT features are really there unlike the Pinnacle DV500.

[Jestorius]

I'm on W2k and it works as good as your system compatibility is.
I never had any problem with it. You have to build your PC to be compatible with the video-card you gonna use.

I'm running 6 different PC-s in the network. Only one of them has NT4 SP6 OS, the others has Windows2000 (without SP).

DV500plus ( actually is a DV500 and the pluss is only a software upgrade) is my best investment I ever made.

The main problem is that we try to use a PC to do everything we like.

[Jestorius]

SiC

He gonna start a business. CCE????? Of cource you can go out and buy one of the Hollywood studios if you have cash.

DV500 has a brakout box. It has Composit / S-VHS inn-out and Audio inn-out. The edited video can be played in "REALTIME" via the output as long as it is a analog video out. If you gonna into the video business than you must have at least one video-monitor and a mixer to your sound. You can't make control the video or the audio quality on your PC. It's only a preview.

The quality can't be better than your source footage is.

Take a look at all the companies forums to check out what kind of frustration the others have. Both Canopus, Pinnacle has problems. But they are still inexpensive equipments.

[SiC]

Jestorius,
Are you telling me you have "real time" transitions and video filters like you would in Win9x???? As soon as you put a transition into the timeline you'll get the "red mark" meaning it needs to be rendered in Win2k/WinXP. It even states that in the manual that real time transitions & filters are disabled in Win2k. Did you make your own drivers/utilities for it??? I'm using the 3.0 drivers & utilities plz tell me how in the world you got Real Time transitions & filters.

[Jestorius]

Ok

It is realtime as long as the type of the transitions is a Pinnacle one and you choose a analog format before the project-editing starts. It's realtime output via the breakout box to the video.

If you choose firewire output than you have to render all the transitions regardless if it is a Pinnacle or other type.

Remember, configur the project settings before you start.

I make video-presentations. After editing I make a working copy to the customor in REALTIME. It's a analog video out. If the project is ok, than I make a 1/2 Realtime mpeg2 file and just export the audio.

Depends of the project-type I use DVDit or Impression to make a DVD inhouse. If it is a "Hollywood-like" project than I have to go out and rent studio-time on a Scenarist based production line ( I can Maestro but I don't have licence on it) with a enginer to back me up on CommandSequence etc. I make all the stuff before the project starts. Menu-design, encoding, Subtitle etc.

I'm not saying that DV500 is better than Canopus. Canopus is a great product. The setup you mention costs 3 times more than DV500. DV500 is cheaper, and he can buy it as a second hand product becouse Pro-One is taking over. Pro-one has dual video-stream, and realtime all the way but it cost you more.

[Jestorius]

http://www.canopuscorp.com/products/mvr1000.php3

maybe it is the best one?

[dvdwizard]

Thanks for the info. on the encoder card guys. I am currently trying to learn how to use Scenarist 2.5 for the authoring process. I do not have an SD 1000 encoder card, $10,000 is just to much for me to spend, but am interested in a card that offers the same functionality/ cheaper price tag. Should I use CCE and why? I have a pioneer AO3 for burning but may eventually upgrade to a S201. What other equipment is necessary? Also, does anyone have information on licensing? Thanks in advance! :cool:

[Jestorius]

Use 48$ to buy Tmpgenc plus and the rest of the money to build the fastest PC ever. Why CCE???, it costs you ... $$$$$$

"$10,000 is just to much for me to spend" just forget Scenarist if you realy gonna start a business.

What kind of DVD do you want to make? ReelDVD has a acceptable price and the project can be converted to Scenarist. Impression DVD-Pro is the cheapest and offers you the most. DVDit is the easyest to use.

[dvdwizard]

I have Scenarist 2.5. I want to make professional dvd's (menus, chapters, etc). :)

[Jestorius]

Ok, I get you , you have it.

You can make proff. menus etc with other software as well. It isn't the menu creation the bigest problem. It is the advanced programering, scripting.

[dvdwizard]

Please explain. And what other advice can you give me about equipment needed and starting my own business (licensing etc.).
Thanks in advance!:confused:

[Jestorius]

It isn't to much to explain. Sonic has the best training and support option to Scenarist owners. I was trying to buy only the software without any hardware options, I couldn't. So I didn't had anything else to do than to read the end of the .nfo file. "if you like this software ...

That's why I just ordered a ReelDVD, not becouse I think it is so good, but becouse the project can be imported into Scenarist. I have tried this option and works very well.

[dvdwizard]

I have Adobe Premier for editing. What capture card should I buy? Also should I use CCE for transcoding?:)

[SiC]

CCE is one of the most advanced software MPEG2 encoder and it will give you the best results. It's speed and quality is far more superior than any other MPEG2 encoder. The only problem is the big price tag on it....... If you want quality, CCE is the way to go. If you can't afford it TMPGEnc is the alternative but I warn you it is VERY slow. By the way this is what I use:

Pinnacle DV500 to capture analong or DV
Adobe Premiere 6.0 for editing and creating titles
Adobe After Effects 5.5 for adding effects & "video painting"
CinemaCraft Encoder 2.62 SP for encoding the DV to MPEG2
Sonic Foundry Soft Encode to encode *.wav to *.ac3
Adobe Photoshop 6.0 for creating DVD menus/subpictures/slideshows
Spruce DVD Maestro 2.9 for compiling the DVD image
BHA B's Recorder Gold for burning the compiled DVD image to DVD-R

Before you start your business, I'd advise you to practice alot with your own home videos (if you have any).

[Jestorius]

http://www.dps.com/dpsweb.nsf/Products-Desktop-RTNLEs?OpenPage capture card.

[dvdwizard]

Jestorius,
How does the canopus mvr-1000 compare with dps velocity real time non-linear encoder card? I am looking for a product that is going to be cost effective. :D

[Jestorius]

DPS is for redigering. The video on the DVD is much more important than to jump from one menu selection to the other.

MVR-1000 is for encoding only? The only cost effectiv card I know is the DV500.

[dvdwizard]

How does the dvstorm with addon encoder card rate in comparison to other affardable editing and encoding cards?:confused:

[Kairat]

Go to http://www.guygraphics.com you'll find some info on dvstorm.
I bought dvstorm with encoder and with new incoming drivers it will capture direct to mpeg. Right now I'm prutty happy with what I got. It's stable and I didn't have problems as those with pinacle cards.

[dvdwizard]

Is there a place where I can get DVStorm SE for cheaper than $949? And when would be the best time to buy?;)

[auenf]

Originally posted by dvdwizard
How does the dvstorm with addon encoder card rate in comparison to other affardable editing and encoding cards?:confused:

the makers of Bitrate View used their own app to do a encoder test, tmpgenc is also listed as well as most hardware encoders. The dvstorm isnt listed, but the canopus amber is basically the standalone mpeg-2 encoder that the DVStorm addon is based on, but i assume that it might be a little more optimized, but i havent used it.

http://www.tecoltd.com/enctest/enctest.htm

be sure to read the comments, and you can view the bitrate view graph of the encoded file, as well as the encoded file.

Enf...

[Kairat]

Originally posted by dvdwizard
Is there a place where I can get DVStorm SE for cheaper than $949? And when would be the best time to buy?;)

Sorry man got no idea :(

[dvdwizard]

Sic,
I heard that CCE 2.64 has a problem with automatically selecting upper field when encoding a dv-avi even if you have that option deselected. Do you know of this problem? Is their any solutions?:confused:

[jfmartins]

Solution:
use Darims Easy Changer to change field order without reencoding.

This tip was given by mb1 in this thread:
http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12748&highlight=darim

[dvdwizard]

What DV-Editing card gives the most real time effects and video layering? I am trying to keep the cost of my editing card around a $1,000. I'm also wanting the card to include analog in/out and dv in/out (all real time); basically have capture card functionality. I have read articles on DV Storm VS Pro One but would like professional input on other cards available that might give me higher quality and faster results. :) :D

[mikeathome]

Originally posted by dvdwizard
Sic,
I heard that CCE 2.64 has a problem with automatically selecting upper field when encoding a dv-avi even if you have that option deselected. Do you know of this problem? Is their any solutions?:confused:

Yes, right, the bastard sets the flag to Upper Field First ALWAYS (it's only a flag in the MPEG-header!). This bug is so old as the Encoder is (was already present in the former versions).

Workarround:
- as described below with Darim Changer from DVMPEG5.09 OR
- simply have Premiere output (or frameserver via AVI Wrapper) in this field order. You can choose 'Upper Field First' ouput in the KeyField Settings dialog when export a Movie.

While DV is always 'Lower Field First' by definition there's no given standard that enforces a certain Field Order for DVD-Video MPEG-2 video stream. Only one thing has to match: The Field Order Flag in the MPEG header with the real order of the fields in the MPEG-2 frames. If it does not match you won't see anything on the PC though BUT as soon you burn it onto a DVD-R and play it on a TV (not a new HDTV progressive one) your eyes will start watering watching heavy picture jumping while horizontal movement.

Upper Field First in Premiere & CCESP, that's the way I always do with AVI Wrapper Frameserver. This automatically sets it right. I did long tests with DVD-RW so believe me it works that way. You avoid the Darim Patcher.

Do yourself a test on a DVD-RW. You should have DVD-RW available when starting a business anyway.

mike

[dvdwizard]

Mike,
Thanks for the information. I will try out your method for pre-encoding.:)

[dvdwizard]

Kairat,
Do you still like your DV-Storm card? Also, what type of system are you running it on? How is the quality of the video? :confused:

[Kairat]

Originally posted by dvdwizard
Kairat,
Do you still like your DV-Storm card? Also, what type of system are you running it on? How is the quality of the video? :confused:

Yes I do. So far not much was done. I just edited couple of home video tapes and transfered them into VCD using HW encoder card. VCD quality was allright (I just got used to svcd quality :) )

No dvd stuff yet as I don't have burner yet. Capture quality is very good, actualy to me it's exelent compared to wintv card I had previosly. System is very stable at all parts of video capture and edit. I disabled build in audio on my dual amd mobo, cause it's sharing irq w/raid card and I get sometimes garbled audio. I don't need audio in this comp yet. Will be getting dedicated audio card later.
I plan to use my video comp for some serios work later. I don't remember for what purpouse you wanted to get capture card. If for ocasional and not business related -> it's expensive choice.

[Scuba]

There is one more set of cards you might have been ignored from.
The Pinnacle DCx000 cards.
They came in several flavors, DC1000 for normal composit and S-VHS and the more professional DC2000 with also XLR and Component video. It also have Sub D9 machine control for BetaCam SP, DigiBeta DVC-Pro and other professiona decks.
Both cards can have a DV option card (made by sony) that give real time DV out at all time.
Also come in DVDx000 flavor (full version of Impression DVD Pro).

Cards are very similar to the DV500+ when come to editing but the DV option is allways in real time as well like th eanalog out.
Real time editing, Capturing directly to Mpg2 like with the Canopus new MVR-1000.
Cards work native in 4:2:2 for better picture quality, and have very good filters built in.
When transcoding Mpg2 material without recompressing it work faster then real time.
Cards can also work with .AVI files if you don't have to go to DVD and want better quality.
Cards come with Premier 6, and Impression SE for normal version.

I have the DC2000 and I am very happy with it. When I need to make a DVD I can set the Video to be captured using machin control and go away surfing forums for more then and hour or so.
Then import my video into Impression, Make a Professional menu in PhotoShop and burn my DVD.

[samdesai10]

I have been struggling to make a good quality 2 hr DVD but have not been successful. This forum and specially suggestions from Sic and Justorious are very helpful and informative, thanks to them. I am using Matrox RT2000, win 2k, Premier 6.0, and DVDiT PE 2.5. I am happy with editing power of my system, but to put my 2 hr DV movie onto DVD has been less than satisfactory. I have tried Matrox, DV500 and Ligos encoder, they work but they do not give good video quality at low rate. Tmlgenc gives good results at low rate, but to encode 2 hr DV, with 2 pass, best quality, 4 Mb bit rate setting would take about 50 to 60 hours! Not practical! After I read comments about CCE on this board, I am thinking about purchasing CCE, I will appreciate any advice. I would even consider purchasing another capture card if it is will satisfy my needs, but I do not know which one? Thanks in advance-Sam

[Jestorius]

CCE SP is a very - very good software but it costs alot and still needs a powerfull PC. I don't know RT2000 but it can't be so bad. If it works simular to DV500 and has a hardware accelerated mpeg encoding, than the quality is up to the footage you put into. So if you are happy with your editing system than maybe for the price of the CCE SP you should buy a second PC with a hardware encoder. Canopuss has a new card ~600,-$. You can edit the video and just connected to the other pc with reltime hardware encoder you can make a final mpeg of it.

To build a fast PC with all the power you can put in it and to use Tmpeg plus (to keep the economical balance) can giv you the possibility to test befor final encoding. I don't belive in the "best ever template" for encoding. Each and every video footage needs its own settings to get a quality mpeg out of it. Tmpgenc for 48$ can give you the same quality as CCE SP but you need time.

[samdesai10]

Jestorius,
Thanks for the info. Do you know what is the name of that Canopus card? Is it made soly for mpeg encoding? I think these hardware based encoders are fast but they do not offer many choices on bit rate settings and muti-pass encodeing which you need for long movies. Also do you know the difference between the free Tmpgenc and the $48 one? I think if I have another high powered computer (just the basic computer about $2000 w/o edtiong system) with either CCE or Tmpgenc, it might do what I want to do, I am not sure. Any advise will be appriciated. Tahnks again-Sam

[Jestorius]

MVR-1000 is the name of the card. http://www.canopuscorp.com/products/mvr1000.php3
I gonna buy one if the the prefiltering option works.

I didn't try the free Tmpgenc 2.53 only the plus and 12a. The plus is much faster and deliver a better quality.

[Scuba]

Pinnacle Targa 3000 has an external program to encode material to Mpg2 in real time with quality very close to CinemaCraft - So I hear.

I know I am getting amazing resoults using it.

There is a article on the T3K TMW at my site :cool:

[samdesai10]

Sic, Looks like you have been doing successfully what I have been trying to do and have not been successful. My wedding movies are about two hours long and have problems with video quality on DVD with my system. I have Matrox RT2000, Win2k, Premier 6.0 and DVDiT 2.5 Pro. I have used ligos unsuccessfully.
1. You use CCE to encode audio and Sonic Foundry to convert audio, any problems with synchronization of audio and video on DVDs?
2. Do you think DVDiT Pro would be compatible with files produced by CCE and Sonic Foundry?
3. Do you any problems playing a DVD on various DVD players.
4. For a two hour movie, what are the varible bit rate you use for encoding? I think anything less then 4 would be bad for video quality.


Originally posted by SiC
CCE is one of the most advanced software MPEG2 encoder and it will give you the best results. It's speed and quality is far more superior than any other MPEG2 encoder. The only problem is the big price tag on it....... If you want quality, CCE is the way to go. If you can't afford it TMPGEnc is the alternative but I warn you it is VERY slow. By the way this is what I use:

Pinnacle DV500 to capture analong or DV
Adobe Premiere 6.0 for editing and creating titles
Adobe After Effects 5.5 for adding effects & "video painting"
CinemaCraft Encoder 2.62 SP for encoding the DV to MPEG2
Sonic Foundry Soft Encode to encode *.wav to *.ac3
Adobe Photoshop 6.0 for creating DVD menus/subpictures/slideshows
Spruce DVD Maestro 2.9 for compiling the DVD image
BHA B's Recorder Gold for burning the compiled DVD image to DVD-R

Before you start your business, I'd advise you to practice alot with your own home videos (if you have any).

[Scuba]

For 120M video on a DVD-R with .AC3 audio (2 channels at 192K) I'd set the quality of the video to 5.5Mbit/Sec VBR.

BUT -
It's very much depend on the video carateristics and the quality of the original video.
My resoults are based on using DVC-Pro system and capturing using Component. Other systems will give diferant resoults. (Unless you have a $300K Snell&Wilcox Pre filter) :scared:

[dvdwizard]

I have decide to go with the DV-Storm Card. I am thinking about making a raid system with a raid controller card, and 2X60GB 7200 rpm/ ATA 100 hard drives.
Question: Cupid, do you have a website giving basic instructions for Scenarist NT? I need help with linking and structuring within the scenario editor.

[Scuba]

the DV-Storm is a very good card for editing, but make a poor choice for DVD outputs (Unless you go the software convertion way)

There is a article at my site about it.

[easy2Bcheesy]

Originally posted by Scuba
For 120M video on a DVD-R with .AC3 audio (2 channels at 192K) I'd set the quality of the video to 5.5Mbit/Sec VBR.

BUT -
It's very much depend on the video carateristics and the quality of the original video.
My resoults are based on using DVC-Pro system and capturing using Component. Other systems will give diferant resoults. (Unless you have a $300K Snell&Wilcox Pre filter) :scared:


I've just done exactly the same job in TMPEG converting across Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade from digital TV to DVD.

120 minutes of footage - .ac3 audio, 2 channel at 320K.

Low: 0, high: 6500, average 4800.

Everything just *barely* fitted on.

[Scuba]

Software encoders are very diferant then hardware ones.
For ones they give much better resoults in the VBR area then the hardware ones.

If I will capture at the highest quality my system allow and use a software encoder I can lower the bit rate to 5Mbit if not less without any notice. Definatly not any "Client" notice.

Problem is that in a buisness you can't afford to set the computer for 30 hours of rendering of each wedding or party. You need to find the best way to encode it fast and in resnoble quality.
Cards like the Pinnacle DC1000DV or the Canopus MVR-1000 are normaly the choice as they give a good in betwin solution without spending the major $$$ the very professional system require. (Snell & Wilcox Pre Filters and such)

[easy2Bcheesy]

Any consumer level MPEG2 hardware encoder is going to give you pretty poor VBR at 4000 (you'll only get 1.5-1.7 hours at 5000, I'm fairly sure)... but then again, weddings aren't exactly packed with high motion scenes so I would imagine that you would get away with a low bitrate fairly well.

[Scuba]

I encode weddings at 6Mbit CBR. Less then this and my boss who is used to DVC-Pro shout QUALITY IS SHITTTTT.

We some times do weddings and events over 7 hours long :scared:
lot's of dancing and stuff like this.
And yes, My clients pay for a 4 DVD set

I want to see how long it take to encode 7 hours two Pass VBR with TmpgEnc using best settings.
I know non of my clients will be willing to pay the computer time. (not to mention what happens if there is a problem and it's crashing at the end) :eek:

[disturbed1]

Check out these sites for capture hardware and the like

Sharbor (http://www.sharbor.com/) software-hardware-complete systems.

Visible Light (http://www.visiblelight.com) more soft and hardware (mainly mpeg)

Video Guys (http://www.videoguys.com) all kinds of junk here.

If you plan on actually running a legit business, stay away from ALL warez. Your sure to get popped.

Also do a search for others that are offering the same service, and see what they charge, and what you get.

Typical price for a straight cap to dvd (no editing or fancies) runs ~$50. Some guys charge upwards of $500 for the works (full editing, transitions, ac3, etc., etc.)

You should defintly make a demo DVD-R, then make multi copies of it, so you can make sure your clients can play the medium. Charging a refundable deposit is a good way to go.

Good luck and have fun.

[dvdwizard]

I was not planning on using warez programs but from my understanding the sofware that is used does not have to be recorded when applying for a business license. Correct?:rolleyes:

[disturbed1]

But the info is recorded on the authored disc. Every authoring app has a signature along with each encoder that is embedded in the final product. :stupid:


Just trying to help you out.