6.1 DTS > multichannel MP2

[Doom9]

just one thing regarding the mpa.. any particulars about joining and burning on this or does the regular bbmpeg-> nero way work?

[beergod]

I use TMPGEnc to multiplex it with a video stream, and use Nero to (SVCD) to burn it.

[Newacey]

Like beergod, I also used TmpegEnc, even though I'm not sure that TmpegEnc creats 100% compliant SVCD streams. Since Player like the one from Panasonic have sometimes (actually most of the time) problems reading those SVCDs, whereas it can read Orinial (bought) SVCD without any Problems.
I think this has something to do with the packed size of the muxed mpeg-stream which has to be more than 2048 bytes (2352 bytes I believe).
But I am quite sure that bbmpeg will also work.
As far as I know Panasonic is the only player which cannot play those streams correctly.

[Taric25]

I-author should work.

[Movieslut]

:confused: What happened to this tread? You guys gave up?

[beergod]

No, we haven't given up ! Its just that there are no new developments in this area. I am too busy with work, and haven't had time to fix a bug specific to MPEG 5.1. But, I have proven that MPEG 5.0 works.

Any help from ppl who can contribute:
integrate AZID dll musicin.exe into one product.
make musicin.exe accept wav file.
Make gui for the integrated product.

The author of REMPEG2 did some work on it, but dissapeared now.
I hope he comes back and could inspire me, and give me some clues.
He has done quite a lot towards my aim.

[Clydesdale]

I wonder if the folks in this thread who have had success creating multichannel surround audio (5.1 or 6.1)on svcd's could tell us the specifics of how they did it? By the way I've read several places that downsampling from 48 to 44.1 khz is unnecessary, as all pc's and most standalone players support 48. So this step may not be necessary in this process.

[beergod]

Clydesdale,

I have the source code to compile MPEG mc encoder. However, there is still one bug I found which I not have time to fix yet ie. if you encode 5.1, the rear right channel has no sound. left rear caries rear right, and sub goes away. If you do 5.0, then its OK. Once I have fixed this bug, I hope I can distribute the software to you guys.

Previously, you had to run mc on Linux platform.

When I have time, I shall write a document detailing how to do it.

48k --> 44.1k is not neccessary just because most SVCD players are DVD players as well, therefore able to support 48k.

[ChristianHJW]

... most DVD player will support 48 KHz AC3, but this doesnt automatically mean they can do 48 KHz MPEG 1 layer 2 sound as well, will depend on decoder chip i guess ...

Another question guys :

Is 5.1 really necessary ? 5.0 capabilities in SVCD's sounds good to me, bass could be mixed into L/R channels.

But i admit the missing sub channel will be a problem for those having subwoofer systems connected to the DD receiver .... no bass :( ...

[beergod]

All DVD players have to support 48k MPEG due the fact that there are still some MPEG 5.1 DVDs around (like Reg 2 Jumanji)

5.1 is not neccessary. But, if the source is 5.1, its best to use 5.1. Downmixing the LFE is acceptable, but will lower SNR as main channels have to be scaled to avoid contents clipping. Bass management is best left to surround processor.

Because MC has a bug in 5.1, the best compromise is to use 5.0.
We are not loosing information, just scale and add the LFE to L/R.

[madluther]

the solution for your "bug" is here

http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10214

[Taric25]

@Beergod (yech! beer tates awful! :( ) and any other capable programmers

I understand that this bug is limiting us from creating correct MP2s, so does anyone know when they'll have time to correct this bug? Sorry, I'd do it myself, but I'm not a programmer.:(

P.S. Happy Holidays from me in America :)

[madluther]

The corrected binaries are available via a link in the above thread and sources too.

[Clydesdale]

Well that's all well and good but rather meaningless unless you have sonic foundry softencode.

[Clydesdale]

Hmm, on second thought it looks like Azid might sub for sfse. Has anyone tried this?:D

[beergod]

@Clydesdale,

YES, I have tried it, and its far easier than SFSE.

azid -d3/2 -ol,r,c,sl,sr -M1 -F pcm xxx.ac3 temp.pcm

The above is the commandline to do it. It decodes ac3 files into 5.1ch pcm files.

beergod

[DSPguru]

i suggest that you use azid instead of sfse.
you could also use my program (http://dannidin.netfirms.com/BeSweetv0.9.zip) for direct 48Khz 5.1 AC3 -> Six 44.1Khz mono Wavs conversion.

[nimrodo]

After creating the 6 mono wave channels how would i integrate them in order to play them on the dvd player
mpeg2? with what softwear?

[DSPguru]

read madluther (http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10214) post.

[Taric25]

Originally posted by madluther
pcm2aiff:

Code is modified from the original version to change the channel ordering. The reason for this is the encoder expects the aiff file to contain the channels as follows
L,R,C,LFE,ls,rs
the original pcm2aiff ordered the channels as follows
L,R,C,ls,rs,LFE
The resulting mpgs would seem to lose the 'ls' channel due to the encoder applying a 125Hz low pass filter on what it assumes is the LFE channel. This may account for the comments on another thread on this forum that ReMPEG2 produced 'buggy' streams when LFE was enabled (if ReMPEG2 is based on the same sources).
The downside of the change (crude and quick) is this version is only good for 6 channel aiff conversion, see the sources for details.

Okay, I read madluther's post and my question still stands: does anyone know when one will have time to correct this bug?

I think the best thing to do would be to design a GUI that converts 5.1 AC3 > multichannel MPEG-2 Tile Layer 1/2/3 files (MP(1/2/3)). After that we can worry about DTS. I think that multichannel MP3 would be a good idea as well for the people who would like surround sound in their DivX files. Maybe this could be integrated into BeSweet/Azid.

Also, is there a real need to use aiff? Are there any capable programmers up for a challenge?:)

[DSPguru]

i might take the challenge of creating a dll encoder and integrating it with BeSweet.
but..
a. DON'T HAVE TIME
b. never tested M2MC on my home-surround, and i don't have a multichannel soundcard, so it would be a bit hard for me to debug/test the results of my coding..

[beergod]

@DSPguru
i might take the challenge of creating a dll encoder and integrating it with BeSweet.
but..
a. DON'T HAVE TIME
b. never tested M2MC on my home-surround, and i don't have a multichannel soundcard, so it would be a bit hard for me to debug/test the results of my coding..

I may be able to help you out on this. I am a DSP engineer, but I mostly design algorithm and code in MATLAB, and assembler. Although I do use C/C++, but not very often ... You can give enough info for me to integrate MC onto BeSweet (if you wish). I am only offering help, and set myself a new challenge.

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by beergod
I may be able to help you out on this. I am a DSP engineer, but I mostly design algorithm and code in MATLAB, and assembler.
hi, me too !
in fact, BeSweet is my first project in C.
what DSP are you coding to ? my forte is Motorola's DSP563xx family :cool:

Although I do use C/C++, but not very often ... You can give enough info for me to integrate MC onto BeSweet (if you wish). I am only offering help, and set myself a new challenge.
well, how about creating a dll (with interfaces i will design) that convrets RAW pcms into m2mc frames ?

it would be cool if you could do that, but if you plan only to do a small part, i rather doing it all by myself..

Dg.

[beergod]

@DSPguru

Perhaps we should discuss this project outside the forum. Please email me.

beergod@yww1.freeserve.co.uk

beergod

[DSPguru]

why outside ?

[beergod]

OK ... Tell me where the source code is, and I will try to do something.

[DSPguru]

here it is (http://rilanparty.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=50715)

[Taric25]

I have been away from the forum for a while (final exams, etc.) but has the project progressed? It would be nice if we got a program that has an input for 48kHz A5.1 AC3 and an output of 44.1kHz MC-MP2 so that we don't have to go through converting a 48kHz 5.1 AC3 to 6 44.1kHz mono WAVs, put them back together in SFSE into a 44.1kHz 5.1 AC3 and then (if we ever get this bug fixed), convert it into MP2 using ReMPEG (or some other program).

Unfortunatley, I am not a programmer, so I can contribute little, if any, help. Any ideas?

[DSPguru]

don't know about beergod...
as for me, i worked of BeSweet's other (more important) features.
will probably release BeSweet v1.0 today.

main feature of v1.0 : direct DVD->MP3 conversion ! (using vstrip.dll)

[beergod]

I looked at the source code DSPguru gave me, but it needs a lot of work to do what triac25 asked for, and this and next month I am extremely busy with my work. (which also explain why I am missing from the forum for a while)

[PoKKeNoiSe]

Hi,

I'm not a programmer but i think you might be interesting in some tools i found last month, a command line MultiChannel encoder for DOS/Windows.The program is pub_enc.exe.

I created a Multichannel track myself with it, but i haven't had the right tools yet to test the track, but it comes from Philips(A creator of MultiChannel), and it costs nothing :)

and a tools called raw2audio.exe (is also included in the package) which can convert wav to aiff or aiff to wav (and so on + 2 types more (don't know them right now)).

Philips Licensing Site (http://www.licensing.philips.com/ordering/soft/documents343.html) at the bottom click "Audio Tools" that's the packages.

good luck!

[eclipsedvd]

a GUI will be out soon.
It takes a lst/vob as input and generate the different process to generate the final mpeg-mc file.
I has been tested on philips player, and it works very well.

@DSPguru, the GUI use BeSweet, i hope it isn't a problem.

[PoKKeNoiSe]

Is the Philips DVD752 Mpeg )( MultiChannel Capable?

I have that one, but don't have 6 speakers yet.

thnx,

[DSPguru]

Originally posted by eclipsedvd
a GUI will be out soon.
@DSPguru, the GUI use BeSweet, i hope it isn't a problem.
NP :)
let me know when the gui is out.

[eclipsedvd]

the mpeg-mc has been tested on:
DVDPlayer Philips DVD 950
Ampli Yamaha RX-V396RDS
Speakers 5.1 Yamaha HS-P220

and it works

[Taric25]

Originally posted by eclipsedvd
a GUI will be out soon.
It takes a lst/vob as input and generate the different process to generate the final mpeg-mc file.
I has been tested on philips player, and it works very well.

@DSPguru, the GUI use BeSweet, i hope it isn't a problem.

Will this also support multichannel MP(1/3)s or just MP2s?

[eclipsedvd]

Taric25> the encoder only support LayerI & LayerII, not LayerIII.

[PoKKeNoiSe]

I forgot to mention it earlier, but i think the input for the Mc encoder from philips must be L, R, C, LFE, RL, RR

(and the -c option must be filled in 1 not 6)

good luck!

[DSPguru]

BeSweet v1.2b2 (http://dspguru.doom9.org) now supports aiff file output.
the new switch iZ -core( -6chaiff ).

you can grab the m2mc encoder from here (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/encoder.exe)!

[Cokes]

Originally posted by DSPguru
BeSweet v1.2b2 (http://dspguru.doom9.org) now supports aiff file output.
the new switch iZ -core( -6chaiff ).

you can grab the m2mc encoder from here (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/encoder.exe)!

Hello,

can I use these 6ch AIFF as input for Philips ISO 13818-3 MPEG-2 Audio Multichannel Encoder Revision: 2.5 990316?

I mean if it has right order...

BTW your link to m2mc encoder doesn't work for me...

Thanks a lot

Cokes

[DSPguru]

i didn't test the result with the phillips encoder, eclipsedvd tried it and it didn't work. try for yourself.

the channels sequence is correct.

here's an updated link of the encoder (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/encoder.zip).

[beergod]

DSPguru,

What is the maximum file size that Besweet will output on AIFFs ?
A 2 hour movie will approx have 3.8GB of 44k/5.1/16bit.
wondering if what would happen if you output a 3 hour movie ?

Has anyone tried encoding a > 4GB AIFF file using MC MPEG encoder ?

[eclipsedvd]

As we use mpeg mc for Svcd, we should compress the sound for one cd. So the problem disappear.

What do you think about?

[beergod]

DVD2SVCD rips the entire DVD contents out, and use BeSweet to encode the entire track. So, in this case, 4GB barrier does matters.

[DSPguru]

true, -6chaiff suffers from filesize limitations.
anyway, in the future i will offer direct AC3->M2MC conversion (without intermediate files), so this won't be a problem.

[beergod]

DSPguru,

So what is the filesize limit on aiff ?

[MaTTeR]

Isn't AIFF a Mac audio format? I seem to remember it from my days of Cubase:)

[DSPguru]

4gb like u said. (unsigned long)

[Cokes]

Originally posted by DSPguru
i didn't test the result with the phillips encoder, eclipsedvd tried it and it didn't work. try for yourself.

the channels sequence is correct.

here's an updated link of the encoder (http://dspguru.notrace.dk/encoder.zip).

I mean DVD2SVCD based...:

C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe -core( -input c:\Temp\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 -output c:\Temp\Encoded_audio_1.aif -6chaiff -logfile c:\Temp\Encoded_audio_1.log ) -azid( -c normal ) -ota( -g max ) -ssrc( --rate 44100 ) ?

Then become I 6ch (L,R,C,LFE,LS,RS) aiff file?
And encode with:

m2mc -m s -n d -o -L Encoded_audio_1.aif ?

Thank U

:confused: Cokes

[beergod]

Can anyone tell me how DVD2SVCD passes commands to BeSweet ?
What is the command syntax ?

Thanks