madVR with LG OLED C8

[ThunderFi]

Hey all!

I'm new to this forum and new to all of this basically. I've been doing my best to find information on my own but I wanted to ask a couple of things here.

I'm using my LG C8 when I watch movies from my PC, usually 4K HDR movies. I'm using MPC-HC + madVR. I've read a lot about different options and algorithms and I feel like my setup is mostly good, but there are a couple of things I'm uncertain about. I'm using the correct HDMI cable as well.

It all began when I started noticing some really bad color banding in my 4K HDR movies. I started testing different things and trying to find information from the web. It would seem that the color banding is not that severe when I haven't chosen the PC mode from my TV. If the HDMI input is just 'HDMI' the banding is very small but I still see it certain scenes. The downside is that the picture seems to be less sharp when the HDMI input is not in PC mode. I have enabled HDMI ultra deep color.

In madVR I have selected my TV's native bitdepth as 10 bit (or higher) since the C8 has a 10 bit panel. I have checked with the debug console that the D3D11 fullscreen says 10 bit. My video card settings are at default, which means 8 bit RGB. I have an RTX 2080.

I have chosen the 'passthrough HDR to display' and 'send HDR metadata to the display' in madVR.

Here are the questions:

1. I know my TV's PC mode forces chroma sub sampling 4:4:4. Is this why movies in PC mode seem to be sharper? My 4K HDR movies are 4:2:0 so the 4:4:4 shouldn't come into play, right? Should I use PC mode or just the basic 'HDMI' or something else?

2. RGB output levels in madVR. This is something I just recently figured out to try. When I select TV levels (16-235) and from my TV select black level as low the picture seems to look much better than PC levels (0-255) with black level as high. With PC levels and black level low the picture is way too dark. The gamma setting on my TV is 2.2 and I have selected pure power curve 2.20 in madVR calibration settings. So the question would be, should I keep the TV levels in madVR or is there something weird in my setup? Which one should look better?

3. My TV is not properly calibrated because I don't own the necessary equipment and I haven't bought the services of a professional calibrator. I have tried a lot of different settings in my TV settings based on recommendations from RTINGS from example. Then I have done some tweaking based on what looks better to my eye. Anyway, I read somewhere that most modern TV's are calibrated to BT.2020 and that's why I should choose that in madVR's calibration settings? Or should I choose something else or disable calibration controls entirely?

4. HDR settings in madVR. Is it better to passthrough HDR to the display or should I be using pixel shader tone mapping or external 3DLUT tone mapping?

Like I said I'm still new to all of this. Hopefully someone can answer my questions, I would appreciate it a lot! :thanks:

[chros]

Hey, and welcome to doom9!

1. yes, that's why. 4:4:4 can be relevant, it's all up to you to decide, I personally like it and can live with hdr banding.
But it just recently turned out (at least for me) that it's not ture 4:4:4 (altough really close to it), see below.

2. 3. 4. read through this post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871836#post1871836) and all the provided links in it, after that you can ask :)

Enjoy!

[QBhd]

chros… not sure what you are seeing or if the B8's older processor is to blame, but on my C8 RGB 4:4:4 is 100% perfect with any and all tests.

QB

https://0ebcrg.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mbmWOLffhshMIAPNfiOrnxUPaTq2EKVGMSYJ5raOfUsMMHgW9b2WiwzKw8nshICzI7wJ6VaCWAva8w1NnkNsw9uQn_TbcLG_oxfBUS1ZpGg9nlb4MlovLoaNanlDdONw2nybZY0JhlENrb1jyEvJElLxG1F6OC4tbQwoiu618ECDDzosRhi0UplRmSaTGmponpowiSwIepmUhkbvQsL9AQA?width=660&height=372&cropmode=none

[Klaus1189]

Do you really see horizontal red and blue lines in the 2s in 4:2:2? Your picture is to blurry.

[Asmodian]

I do on my C9. There is crosstalk or similar on LG OLEDs but I wouldn't characterize it as an issue with 4:4:4, simply pixel level panel artifacts that exist in various forms on all available screen techs.

[huhn]

there are some monitor with no issue with that but that's a far more advanced topic then 4:4:4.

[Asmodian]

I have never seen one that didn't do something odd with at least one test pattern that was designed to trigger crosstalk, but it is true that some are very very good. Much better than these OLEDs is common. These OLEDs take a decent amount of power, it is probably hard to electrically isolate every pixel from every other pixel.

[huhn]

WRGB doesn't make it easier.
it's really unimportant as long as it is not terrible for movies anyway.

this one does really really good: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/27uk650-w

[chros]

not sure what you are seeing or if the B8's older processor is to blame, but on my C8 RGB 4:4:4 is 100% perfect with any and all tests.
:) No, it isn't, that's what I thought at first as well. As @Asmodian said even C9 is the same, and C8/C7 also. (I was told that maybe 2016 models were different.)
Anyway, you haven't read the first section in the post I linked, have you? :) (And I linked a potential explanation for it as well.)
Just test with the mentioned image and you'll see what we mean.

[QBhd]

I read it and still can't see what the problem is supposed to be. Anyway, it is what it is.

I just realized that my post in the madVR thread earlier should be here. So I will add my request here as well (I know, bad forum etiquette):

I need a little help. I have a R9 270X that is still kicking (even after it died and I baked it in the oven to bring it back to life), It was more than enough when I had my 1024x768 rectangular pixel "720p" Plasma. When That TV died and I replaced it with a 55" LG C8, I tried playing 4k HDR though the PC, but it didn't work and I just chalked it up to a GPU with only 2GB RAM and HDMI 1.4 so since then I played the 4k HDR content using the TV's built in player.

But today I was farting around with a 4k HDR Blu-ray and it worked on the PC. I can even do HDR.... It took a little tweaking to work in super high bitrate scenes. I cranked CPU and GPU queues to the max (48/24) which makes no sense since queues that big make normal playback of 1080p or less a choppy mess, but the 4k HDR plays like silk (and turns into a choppy mess with 16/8 queue default queue depths) plus queues that big should cause serious RAM shortages shouldn't they? This card has just 2GB... it's odd, but I digress.

Now that I realize can "tone map HDR using pixel shaders", I am curious what should I set "target peak nits" to... I read the C8 can do 820 nits, but I don't have a meter to verify. I know there are a few C8 users here, just trying to pick your brains



QB

[chros]

I read it and still can't see what the problem is supposed to be. Anyway, it is what it is.
:D Take a good look at it (SDR or HDR10 mode, doesn't matter):
"this can be easily visible on the yellow and the bottom row text of Quick brown fox (http://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/201412/chroma-subsampling-test-4k-tv.png) image"

E.g. on the yellow text you'll see red pixels around the yellow ones.

[QBhd]

Okay.. I looked but didn't see anything odd last night... I'll check again when I get home from work, maybe your post should specify what to look for. Stating a test image failed is not enough when the failure is so hard to spot.

QB

[ThunderFi]

Hey, and welcome to doom9!

1. yes, that's why. 4:4:4 can be relevant, it's all up to you to decide, I personally like it and can live with hdr banding.
But it just recently turned out (at least for me) that it's not ture 4:4:4 (altough really close to it), see below.

2. 3. 4. read through this post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871836#post1871836) and all the provided links in it, after that you can ask :)

Enjoy!

Hey and thank you for your reply. How exactly does the 4:4:4 work when the movie itself is 4:2:0? This seems a bit confusing to me but what I suspected apparently is the case then.

I checked the post and read through it. Didn't go through all of the links yet though. A couple of things I want to ask about:

1. The RGB output levels. In the post you linked it was said that 0-255 should be selected from video card control panel. If this is the case, should I then also choose PC levels in madVR's RGB output settings?

2. Okay so I chose DCI-P3 in madVR calibration settings. I haven't created a 3DLUT and I haven't even really read about those yet. There's still so much for me to go through and understand.

3. The color gamut settings. In the post you linked it was said that 'wide' should be selected for SDR content. This contradicts so many other people that have said that 'auto' should be the best option.

[QBhd]

I would say no on the Wide for SDR. I think Extended is closer to what DCI-P3 uses. Color Bars with the Blue Filter get out of whack with wide + DCI-P3. Which to my understanding indicates over blown colors

QB

[QBhd]

@ chros:

So I just re-checked the Quick Brown Fox image... there is no red pixels around the yellow ones... And I think I just blinded myself a little bit since I got right up in there... I will say again, I'm not sure what your are seeing in these 4:4:4 tests. I should also repeat the fact that I have a C8 and it does have a different processor than the B8. And if it does in fact turn out to not be 100% perfect 4:4:4 then it's so damn close as to be perfect.

QB

[chros]

And if it does in fact turn out to not be 100% perfect 4:4:4 then it's so damn close as to be perfect.
Yes, it's pretty close to 4:4:4. There are some "crazy" people out there who pointed out this "problem" and I couldn't believe it either, but this is what it is :)

I would say no on the Wide for SDR. I think Extended is closer to what DCI-P3 uses.
Have you checked with a meter? :) I did.
And it's "known" out there that the Wide settings is the closest to the native DCPI-P3 gamut.

Hey and thank you for your reply. How exactly does the 4:4:4 work when the movie itself is 4:2:0? This seems a bit confusing to me
madVR has great chroma upscalers: they create 4:4:4 out of the 4:2:0.

1. The RGB output levels. In the post you linked it was said that 0-255 should be selected from video card control panel. If this is the case, should I then also choose PC levels in madVR's RGB output settings?
That's correct, thanks, I've updated my post with it.

2. Okay so I chose DCI-P3 in madVR calibration settings. I haven't created a 3DLUT and I haven't even really read about those yet.
That's a good starting point.

3. The color gamut settings. In the post you linked it was said that 'wide' should be selected for SDR content. This contradicts so many other people that have said that 'auto' should be the best option.
You are right but: those people don't use hardware/software (in our case madVR) that will do color gamut conversion on-the-fly if it's needed :)

[QBhd]

Just to clarify... those last 3 quotes were NOT quotes of mine :)

QB

[chros]

Just to clarify... those last 3 quotes were NOT quotes of mine :)
Oh, crap, corrected, thanks! :)

[QBhd]

@ThunderFi:

I have recently settled into disabled madVR calibration and the technicolor Expert setting for SDR content. I only change three settings OLED up to 56 since my room is not super dark, sharpness up to 20 since I read that is neutral for PC input... and Gamma to 2.2 (again room is not a dark cave). I still want to calibrate at some point, but for now with no gear this seems to be as good as it gets,

QB

[ThunderFi]

Yes, it's pretty close to 4:4:4. There are some "crazy" people out there who pointed out this "problem" and I couldn't believe it either, but this is what it is :)


Have you checked with a meter? :) I did.
And it's "known" out there that the Wide settings is the closest to the native DCPI-P3 gamut.


madVR has great chroma upscalers: they create 4:4:4 out of the 4:2:0.


That's correct, thanks, I've updated my post with it.


That's a good starting point.


You are right but: those people don't use hardware/software (in our case madVR) that will do color gamut conversion on-the-fly if it's needed :)

So, about the DCPI-P3 gamut. Should color gamut 'wide' be selected only for movies? As an example I've been playing Witcher 3 on my TV (the game is running on my PC) and I've noticed that I can't use the game mode because the colors are oversaturated. The game mode forces color gamut to the 'wide' option. I've been using the Expert Bright room/dark room settings when playing. I read somewhere that the input lag should be at least almost the same when I have not enabled any extra picture processing options.

About madVR chroma upscaling. Are you trying to tell me that if my TV is not using PC mode the maximum chroma of 4:2:2 restricts the upscaling of madVR? What I mean is that if my TV is not on PC mode I then madVR can't upscale the picture as good? If that makes sense.

Thanks, I'll change to the PC levels both in NVIDIA Control Panel and in madVR. In NVIDIA CP should I leave everything else at default? I read somewhere that I should leave it at 8 bit RGB full range and let applications do their thing in fullscreen when watching HDR?

Are you saying that because we use madVR the 'Wide' color gamut option for SDR content is just the best option? Why isn't 'Auto' a better option?

@ThunderFi:

I have recently settled into disabled madVR calibration and the technicolor Expert setting for SDR content. I only change three settings OLED up to 56 since my room is not super dark, sharpness up to 20 since I read that is neutral for PC input... and Gamma to 2.2 (again room is not a dark cave). I still want to calibrate at some point, but for now with no gear this seems to be as good as it gets,

QB

I see. I've been using the ISF expert dark room/bright room when watching SDR content. With HDR content I've been using the Cinema option. This is based on the recommendations of RTINGS. With SDR content I've also used OLED light 56 and sharpness 20 as well. I think it was RTINGS who claimed that sharpness 20 should be neutral when watched from PC. I also use gamma 2.2.

Do you prefer the technicolor expert over the ISF expert dark room/bright room?

[QBhd]

Yes. I too was using the ISF settings but then I tried technicolor after reading about something they accounted for that ISF did not... I have been trying to remember what it was, but I'm having a seniors moment. So I figured what the heck, I can always tow back to Isf. After trying technicolor, skin tones are vastly improved.

QB

[chros]

So, about the DCPI-P3 gamut. Should color gamut 'wide' be selected only for movies?
Yes, since madvr is only used that time.

About madVR chroma upscaling. Are you trying to tell me that if my TV is not using PC mode the maximum chroma of 4:2:2 restricts the upscaling of madVR?
That's correct: the TV will dumb down what madVR did.
This also mean, if you don't want to use PC mode, then you don't have to waste lot of GPU resources on chroma upscaling, you can just use Bicubic60+AR.

Thanks, I'll change to the PC levels both in NVIDIA Control Panel and in madVR. In NVIDIA CP should I leave everything else at default? I read somewhere that I should leave it at 8 bit RGB full range and let applications do their thing in fullscreen when watching HDR?
Yes, leave everything else at default.
If you set 8bit output in nvidia panel then (again) no need to select 10bit output in madvr. But that is your choice to make which one you like.

Are you saying that because we use madVR the 'Wide' color gamut option for SDR content is just the best option? Why isn't 'Auto' a better option?
Auto uses the smallest color gamut, that is BT.709. You can use that one if you like (also set in madvr then), I can think of 2 things:
- some SDR content may use DCI-P3 gamut (in this case madvr dumb it down)
- it can happen that the TV's bt709 gamut is smaller than the specification (we loose small amount)


Btw, Sharpness 20 is oversharpening in PC mode as well (maybe that was true with some earlier firmwares). 0 is the correct in both modes.

[chros]

Do you prefer the technicolor expert over the ISF expert dark room/bright room?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/3043520-lg-oled-s-3d-lut-profiling-using-lightspace-thread-10.html#post58376914

[QBhd]

That's what I read about.... Metameric stuff... After reading that, I gave technicolor a serious try and I have not gone back to Isf

Thanks for finding that chros, I would have found it at home since this phone is garbage and hard to do much with

QB

[ThunderFi]

Yes, since madvr is only used that time.


That's correct: the TV will dumb down what madVR did.
This also mean, if you don't want to use PC mode, then you don't have to waste lot of GPU resources on chroma upscaling, you can just use Bicubic60+AR.


Yes, leave everything else at default.
If you set 8bit output in nvidia panel then (again) no need to select 10bit output in madvr. But that is your choice to make which one you like.


Auto uses the smallest color gamut, that is BT.709. You can use that one if you like (also set in madvr then), I can think of 2 things:
- some SDR content may use DCI-P3 gamut (in this case madvr dumb it down)
- it can happen that the TV's bt709 gamut is smaller than the specification (we loose small amount)


Btw, Sharpness 20 is oversharpening in PC mode as well (maybe that was true with some earlier firmwares). 0 is the correct in both modes.

I see, that makes sense.

I was wondering, if I choose the default settings in NVIDIA CP and then choose 0-255 in madVR, would that be different to choosing 0-255 in NVIDIA CP and 0-255 in madVR? Also I can't choose 10 bit for RGB in NVIDIA CP, only 12 bit is possible but that's only available if the refresh rate is 30 Hz or lower. Also when I do select RGB 12 bit @30 Hz for example I notice video playback being choppy, it's not smooth. But with RGB 8 bit or with just default settings there's no choppiness. I've also noticed that using a refresh rate of 23 or 24 Hz makes the video playback choppy as well. This is the same with madVR's option to automatically change to the correct display mode. This is why I don't use it. I've found that changing my the refresh rate to 48 Hz makes 24 FPS video playback much more smoother. But for some reason 23/24 Hz causes choppiness. I've also tried smooth motion and I can't stand the artifacts it causes. Any ideas on how to get 23/24 Hz working without choppiness in video playback?

Also, here's something I wish to clarify to myself. If I use default color settings in NVIDIA CP and in madVR I choose the native bitdepth as 10 bit, then are HDR movies actually being displayed as 10 bit? Here's a link that shows my settings when watching a movie: https://imgur.com/a/R16gYBd

As you can see from the link, the display is 8 bit and the D3D11 fullscreen windowed is 10 bit. I don't use exclusive fullscreen, should I? From what I've understood it shouldn't matter what I've chosen in my video card settings/windows because the fullscreen application will be able to output the correct bitdepth? Or is this just a bunch of rubbish?

In MPC-HC I have DXVA2 native selected. I've tried to understand and see the difference between that and DXVA2 copy-back but the only difference I've been able to see is copy-back causing rendering times to be much slower. Is there a benefit to using DXVA2 copy-back instead of DXVA2 native? Just as a reminder, my GPU is RTX 2080 and my CPU is i7 - 7700k.

So the 'auto' option actually doesn't automatically choose the best option for the content being displayed? But okay, I will use 'wide' for SDR content. Should 'wide' be used for HDR as well, or is 'extended' or 'auto' better with HDR?

Are you certain that Sharpness 20 is oversharpening? I'll have to see how it looks with the value of 0. Personally I've been liking the sharpness with 20.

I think these are the last questions I have. Everything else I've managed to figure out one way or the other. I appreciate your help!

That's what I read about.... Metameric stuff... After reading that, I gave technicolor a serious try and I have not gone back to Isf

Thanks for finding that chros, I would have found it at home since this phone is garbage and hard to do much with

QB

I tried reading through the post and there's so much that I don't quite understand yet, or I'm just not familiar with. What are metameric stuff? Do you think the Technicolor mode should be used for HDR content as well, or just SDR? Like I mentioned before I've been using the Cinema option for HDR content.

[chros]

if I choose the default settings in NVIDIA CP and then choose 0-255 in madVR, would that be different to choosing 0-255 in NVIDIA CP and 0-255 in madVR?
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416

Also I can't choose 10 bit for RGB in NVIDIA CP, only 12 bit is possible but that's only available if the refresh rate is 30 Hz or lower.
That's correct, only 8bit or 12bit can be selected.
If you use older drivers (with older cards like Pascal), e.g. v385.28, it will auto selects 8bit when 60p content is played.

Any ideas on how to get 23/24 Hz working without choppiness in video playback?
This link (http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html) and this one (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998). In short: use CRU to set the values what madvr reported.

Also, here's something I wish to clarify to myself. If I use default color settings in NVIDIA CP and in madVR I choose the native bitdepth as 10 bit, then are HDR movies actually being displayed as 10 bit?
I don't know what is the default in nvidia panel, but whatever you set there that's the final stage. So, if 8bit is set in nvidia then the output is 8bit.

the display is 8 bit and the D3D11 fullscreen windowed is 10 bit. I don't use exclusive fullscreen, should I? From what I've understood it shouldn't matter what I've chosen in my video card settings/windows because the fullscreen application will be able to output the correct bitdepth?
Now you now the answer to the last question.
Window or fullscreen mode matters if you want to put out 10bit, and it depends on the OS you use:
- on Win8: only FSE can do 10bit
- on Win10 (1607 and later): FSE is faked (not real) and FSW can also do 10bit.

In MPC-HC I have DXVA2 native selected. I've tried to understand and see the difference between that and DXVA2 copy-back but the only difference I've been able to see is copy-back causing rendering times to be much slower. Is there a benefit to using DXVA2 copy-back instead of DXVA2 native? Just as a reminder, my GPU is RTX 2080 and my CPU is i7 - 7700k.
Yes, copy-back is the slowest (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1878815#post1878815).
It can be a benefit (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1867089#post1867089), it depends on your use-case, I use d3d11 native.


Should 'wide' be used for HDR as well, or is 'extended' or 'auto' better with HDR?
Same, wide.

Are you certain that Sharpness 20 is oversharpening? I'll have to see how it looks with the value of 0. Personally I've been liking the sharpness with 20.
I am, try it for yourself. But if you like it at 20 then leave it here :)

That's what I read about.... Metameric stuff... After reading that, I gave technicolor a serious try and I have not gone back to Isf

What are metameric stuff? Do you think the Technicolor mode should be used for HDR content as well, or just SDR? Like I mentioned before I've been using the Cinema option for HDR content.

From Ted:
"But these coordinates are not really working, because Technicolor tried to match a Xenon DCI Cinema Projector as reference (with DCI primaries and D65 White Point), so these coordinates are only helpful for those which are working in post-production and use LG OLED's as client view monitors, for the commercial cinema release of the movie.

For home video release of a movie, a projector as reference is never being used, only with monitors its been performed the mastering of SDR home release of the movies, so there no point for anyone to use a Technicolor custom White Point (for home viewing).

As usual with that recommendation, LG has confused once again the consumer world, it has done it at past many times, with various PDF's with calibration notes for HDR calibration which never worked "

What I think is that Technicolor mode should never be used :) (neither for SDR nor for HDR).
But these are not stone-carved things, if you like how a preset look like then use it: technicolor, standard, even vivid :D

[ThunderFi]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271416#post1271416


That's correct, only 8bit or 12bit can be selected.
If you use older drivers (with older cards like Pascal), e.g. v385.28, it will auto selects 8bit when 60p content is played.


This link (http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html) and this one (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998). In short: use CRU to set the values what madvr reported.


I don't know what is the default in nvidia panel, but whatever you set there that's the final stage. So, if 8bit is set in nvidia then the output is 8bit.


Now you now the answer to the last question.
Window or fullscreen mode matters if you want to put out 10bit, and it depends on the OS you use:
- on Win8: only FSE can do 10bit
- on Win10 (1607 and later): FSE is faked (not real) and FSW can also do 10bit.


Yes, copy-back is the slowest (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1878815#post1878815).
It can be a benefit (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1867089#post1867089), it depends on your use-case, I use d3d11 native.



Same, wide.


I am, try it for yourself. But if you like it at 20 then leave it here :)





From Ted:
"But these coordinates are not really working, because Technicolor tried to match a Xenon DCI Cinema Projector as reference (with DCI primaries and D65 White Point), so these coordinates are only helpful for those which are working in post-production and use LG OLED's as client view monitors, for the commercial cinema release of the movie.

For home video release of a movie, a projector as reference is never being used, only with monitors its been performed the mastering of SDR home release of the movies, so there no point for anyone to use a Technicolor custom White Point (for home viewing).

As usual with that recommendation, LG has confused once again the consumer world, it has done it at past many times, with various PDF's with calibration notes for HDR calibration which never worked "

What I think is that Technicolor mode should never be used :) (neither for SDR nor for HDR).
But these are not stone-carved things, if you like how a preset look like then use it: technicolor, standard, even vivid :D

Thank you again for the amazing information!

A couple of things:

1. About the NVIDIA CP bit depth and fullscreen application's bitdepth:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/69dwco/a_4k_60_hz_hdr_question/

In the post they claim exactly what I've thought. "When you run a game in exclusive fullscreen mode with HDR it essentially takes control of the display so most of the time the output settings you've made in the NVIDIA control panel will be ignored. So, you should configure your resolution and colour format in NVCP as you'd like it to apply to your desktop and then use whatever options your exclusively fullscreen games expose to configure HDR." I know they use games as an example, but shouldn't it be the same for every fullscreen application?

2. I've been trying to get the custom resolution working. I dove into the links you posted and got to work. I've been spending many hours trying to get it to work properly without success. I went through the custom mode optimization in madVR. Then I took a screencap of the recommended settings and deleted the custom resolution. Then I created a custom resolution in CRU using the numbers I got from madVR. As you can see from this link:https://imgur.com/a/nqJIObv there should be no frame drops. That value changes a bit but it stays above 10 hours most often. Yet still the video playback is choppy, it's not smooth at all. How is that even possible?

This is maybe the last thing I need to figure out to be satisfied with my setup.

One more thing, do I need any extension blocks in CRU? I read that you used a DisplayID? What is that and do I need it? Currently the only extension block I have is CEA-861: 1 detailed resolution, 9 data blocks (HDMI 2.0) which was there by default.

EDIT: I'm not sure how but right now everything seems to be working fine. I enabled exclusive fullscreen mode in madVR and I'm getting buttery smooth playback with 12 bit RGB. There's 1 frame repeat at about 1-3 hours most of the time (the value changes quite a lot) but the playback is smooth. Is there some extra tweaking I should do?

[ThunderFi]

Okay so now I don't know what's going on. After restarting my computer the choppy playback is back. Everything looks good when checking the madVR debug console but the playback is just not smooth. Everything should be right, the custom resolution etc. Any ideas?

EDIT: Extra clarification, the frame repeat/drop rate is now 1 in every 45 minutes or so as well. I have the same settings that I had when I took the screencap that can be seen on the previous post. I tried with and without exclusive fullscreen. I also switched back to DXVA2 native because I tried the copy-back. None of these things helped.

[chros]

1. About the NVIDIA CP bit depth and fullscreen application's bitdepth:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/69dwco/a_4k_60_hz_hdr_question/
In the post they claim exactly what I've thought.
The guy used Win7 ! :)
Which Windows version do you use?

2. I've been trying to get the custom resolution working. I dove into the links you posted and got to work. I've been spending many hours trying to get it to work properly without success. I went through the custom mode optimization in madVR. Then I took a screencap of the recommended settings and deleted the custom resolution. Then I created a custom resolution in CRU using the numbers I got from madVR. As you can see from this link:https://imgur.com/a/nqJIObv there should be no frame drops. That value changes a bit but it stays above 10 hours most often. Yet still the video playback is choppy, it's not smooth at all. How is that even possible?
...
One more thing, do I need any extension blocks in CRU? I read that you used a DisplayID? What is that and do I need it? Currently the only extension block I have is CEA-861: 1 detailed resolution, 9 data blocks (HDMI 2.0) which was there by default.

That's why: "add DisplayID to Extension blocks and set it as the 1st entry" :)
- and set your custom madvr timings inside this DisplayID block

The difference between CRU and nvidia created (by madvr) custom timing is:
- nvidia adds a new one to the already existing ones: that can confuse applications which one to use (e.g. madvr)
- CRU replaces an existing one with the custom one on the OS level, so there won't be any confusion

One more note about when you create custom timings with madvr:
- always start from the default one (EDID) and pay special attention to the "sync" attributes (e.g. + , +):
-- don't select a mode that is different!
- don't deviate a lot from the default EDID values (I can post mine later just for you to see and compare)
- the above 2 wrong settings can easily modify the response of the panel! (e.g. modifying gamma curve, causing black crush, etc.)
- if you get >= 10 hours after the first optimisation then it's already really good, you don't need to do more runs

Last note: certain nvidia driver versions can block custom timings completely (doesn't matter how they were created), so always check in madvr OSD whether your timing is applied if you install a new driver. :)

[ThunderFi]

The guy used Win7 ! :)
Which Windows version do you use?


That's why: "add DisplayID to Extension blocks and set it as the 1st entry" :)
- and set your custom madvr timings inside this DisplayID block

The difference between CRU and nvidia created (by madvr) custom timing is:
- nvidia adds a new one to the already existing ones: that can confuse applications which one to use (e.g. madvr)
- CRU replaces an existing one with the custom one on the OS level, so there won't be any confusion

One more note about when you create custom timings with madvr:
- always start from the default one (EDID) and pay special attention to the "sync" attributes (e.g. + , +):
-- don't select a mode that is different!
- don't deviate a lot from the default EDID values (I can post mine later just for you to see and compare)
- the above 2 wrong settings can easily modify the response of the panel! (e.g. modifying gamma curve, causing black crush, etc.)
- if you get >= 10 hours after the first optimisation then it's already really good, you don't need to do more runs

Last note: certain nvidia driver versions can block custom timings completely (doesn't matter how they were created), so always check in madvr OSD whether your timing is applied if you install a new driver. :)

That's a good point. I use Windows 10 Home Edition 64bit.

I have to be honest, I don't know what you mean by adding DisplayID to the extension blocks. I checked the things I can add and there's nothing named "DisplayID". Am I missing something? Or maybe I'm just too new to all of this still.

That's good to know about NVIDIA and CRU custom resolutions, thanks!

I started with EDID from madVR, I tested it and it was accepted. Then I ran the optimization for about 30 minutes and got this: https://imgur.com/en7YtgN
Then I took a screenshot of those values that can be seen in the picture, deleted the custom resolution in madVR and created a new detailed resolution in CRU. Here's a picture of my CRU custom resolution: https://imgur.com/JlRVJrk

At least to my eye everything looks fine, right? Or am I just missing something? Thanks for helping me, I really appreciate it. This would be quite a lot to understand by myself so it's nice to have someone who's willing to help! :)

EDIT: So I thought it would be a good idea to start fresh again. I deleted the created custom resolution and installed the newest GPU drivers and rebooted my PC. Then I tried to do the same thing as before in madVR, I chose EDID, tested it, works, then let it optimize. After the optimization I got this https://imgur.com/a/5GUjI7Z

Now the front porch horizontal value is so big that I can't even create a custom resolution in CRU with that, it just doesn't allow me to do it. What is going on here?

[chros]

I have to be honest, I don't know what you mean by adding DisplayID to the extension blocks. I checked the things I can add and there's nothing named "DisplayID". Am I missing something? Or maybe I'm just too new to all of this still.
Exactly where you selected the extension block on the below image:
- if you push Add button, there has to be an option (out of 4?) called DisplayID (or can be selected from a Type dropdown?) (I can't open cru here now.)
- it's like on this image (https://i.redd.it/mnlkza88crs21.png) but move DisplayID above the other one (CEA-861 on the pic)

I started with EDID from madVR, I tested it and it was accepted. Then I ran the optimization for about 30 minutes and got this: https://imgur.com/en7YtgN
Then I took a screenshot of those values that can be seen in the picture, deleted the custom resolution in madVR and created a new detailed resolution in CRU. Here's a picture of my CRU custom resolution: https://imgur.com/JlRVJrk
At least to my eye everything looks fine, right?
Yes, looks good.
Btw, have you enabled "UHD Deep Color" in the TV? If not then you can start remeasuring the custom timing :)

Thanks for helping me, I really appreciate it. This would be quite a lot to understand by myself so it's nice to have someone who's willing to help! :)
No worries, it seems to be a simple stuff at first glance, but actually it's really complicated/confusing/etc :)
There are plenty of kind guys here at doom9, not just me :)

After the optimization I got this https://imgur.com/a/5GUjI7Z

Now the front porch horizontal value is so big that I can't even create a custom resolution in CRU with that, it just doesn't allow me to do it. What is going on here?
I don't know, but you have lot of other values to choose from, not to mention the one that you have already set before! :)

[ThunderFi]

Exactly where you selected the extension block on the below image:
- if you push Add button, there has to be an option (out of 4?) called DisplayID (or can be selected from a Type dropdown?) (I can't open cru here now.)
- it's like on this image (https://i.redd.it/mnlkza88crs21.png) but move DisplayID above the other one (CEA-861 on the pic)


Yes, looks good.
Btw, have you enabled "UHD Deep Color" in the TV? If not then you can start remeasuring the custom timing :)


No worries, it seems to be a simple stuff at first glance, but actually it's really complicated/confusing/etc :)
There are plenty of kind guys here at doom9, not just me :)

I don't know, but you have lot of other values to choose from, not to mention the one that you have already set before! :)

Thank you, I found the DisplayID. Should I add something to it or just leave it empty? Do I need to add the custom resolution there as well? I tried doing that and at first everything worked well. I created a custom resolution with the previous values that seemed good. What I mean is that I applied those to the DisplayID as well as to the detailed resolutions. It first seemed to work well, the playback was smooth. Then I restarted my PC and the playback was choppy again, without me changing any settings. I'll try a few things but I don't know what to do after that. Any ideas?

I have enabled the UHD Deep Color, HDR movies won't even work without it, they look very weird wihtout it and the TV gives an error message asking for me to enable it.

Very well said! :)

EDIT: I wanted to be sure that the timings are good, so I ran the optimization in madVR again using the same timings. This is the result: https://imgur.com/a/jZb8ZbD
Yet still when I delete that from madVR and add that into CRU to create a custom resolution the video playback is choppy. Am I missing something here?

[chros]

Thank you, I found the DisplayID. Should I add something to it or just leave it empty? Do I need to add the custom resolution there as well?
"and set your custom madvr timings inside this DisplayID block"
You only have to add the custom timing inside DisplayID block, nowhere else. If you already added somewhere then remove it.

Then I restarted my PC and the playback was choppy again, without me changing any settings.
After PC restart:
- run CRU and check whether your timing is still in the DisplayID block
- take a look at madVR OSD to double check that refresh rate of the display (top row) is correct

[ThunderFi]

"and set your custom madvr timings inside this DisplayID block"
You only have to add the custom timing inside DisplayID block, nowhere else. If you already added somewhere then remove it.


After PC restart:
- run CRU and check whether your timing is still in the DisplayID block
- take a look at madVR OSD to double check that refresh rate of the display (top row) is correct

I thought I tried that already but apparently I didn't... because IT WORKS!!! :thanks:

In CRU the only thing I have is the DisplayID and inside that I have the custom resolution with the correct timings. I also checked the "Native" box, should I uncheck that or leave it checked?

Just to be sure I restarted my PC a few times and between restarts I put on a 4K HDR movie just to be sure everything works fine. I also checked CRU and madVR OSD and the settings and refresh rates were just like they're supposed to be. So at least currently it would seem that everything is working perfectly in regards to the refresh rate/resolution. I can't even say how happy I am that it works, thank you so so much for your help, I really mean it! :)

I still have a couple of questions...

1. I noticed that in madVR I have multiple identifications for my display, as you can see from this picture: https://imgur.com/a/UNGrgNS
The only identification that's not grayed out is identification 8 which you can see in the picture. In that identification it says that bitdepths = 8bit and that there are no wide gamuts and hdr formats. Is the identification page just bugged or is something wrong with my setup now?

2. About the madVR calibration tools. Do they affect HDR content as well? Many of my HDR movies seem to be using BT.2020 (at least the madVR OSD says "matrix BT.2020" and "primaries BT.2020" but in the calibration settings I've selected DCI-P3. Is this the way it should be or should I change something?

3. I would be interested in your madVR settings since we have almost the same TV's you and me and because you seem to know a lot more than me. Especially scaling algorithms and rendering settings. Here are my settings:

artifact removal: reduce banding artifacts enabled: both settings on high

Scaling algorithms:
- chroma upscaling: super-xbr sharpness 150 + anti-ringing filter
- image downscaling: SSIM 2D - strength: 100% + anti-ringing filter relaxed
- image upscaling: Jinc + anti-ringing filter
- upscaling refinement is at default settings

Rendering:
- general settings: both delay playback options enabled, automatic fullscreen mode enabled (the custom resolution doesn't seem to work without it, is it the same for you?), use Direct3D 11 for presentation and present a frame for every vsync enabled. CPU queue size: 16, GPU queue size: 14

- windowed and exclusive mode are at default settings, except "how many video frames shall be presented in advance" is 12.
- dithering: Error Diffusion - option 1
- use colored noise enabled
- change dither for every frame enabled
- trade quality for performance: everything is unchecked


Also, what picture mode are you using for HDR content on your TV? I'm currently using Cinema.

[chros]

In CRU the only thing I have is the DisplayID and inside that I have the custom resolution with the correct timings. I also checked the "Native" box, should I uncheck that or leave it checked?
Yes, just leave it checked (as it was stated before).

I can't even say how happy I am that it works, thank you so so much for your help, I really mean it! :)

I'm happy that finally it works! You can get me a drink when we meet in person :D

3. I would be interested in your madVR settings
Take a look at them (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2364113-guide-building-4k-htpc-madvr-95.html#post58165252), it only can give you an idea about them since you have way more powerful card than me.

Also, what picture mode are you using for HDR content on your TV? I'm currently using Cinema.
Cinema, DTM on in the TV for HDR10.

I'll answer the others later ...

[chros]

1. I noticed that in madVR I have multiple identifications for my display, as you can see from this picture: https://imgur.com/a/UNGrgNS
The only identification that's not grayed out is identification 8 which you can see in the picture. In that identification it says that bitdepths = 8bit and that there are no wide gamuts and hdr formats. Is the identification page just bugged or is something wrong with my setup now?
The ID tab displays info based on the EDID of the TV. That is not correct in your case, mine reports perfectly everything (8/10/12bit , hdr capability, etc.). Although I don't think it matters at all.
Delete completely the LG device from madVR, then maybe it will recognise it well.

2. About the madVR calibration tools. Do they affect HDR content as well?
Good question whether it's used or not in HDR passthrough mode. I just checked it: it is *not* used.

Many of my HDR movies seem to be using BT.2020 (at least the madVR OSD says "matrix BT.2020" and "primaries BT.2020" but in the calibration settings I've selected DCI-P3. Is this the way it should be or should I change something?
Yes, calibration tab should reflect the capability of the display device, not the content.

And I also added my custom timings and this line to the CRU post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998):
"remember, this approach is modifying "back porch" (horizontal and vertical values) only!"

[ThunderFi]

Yes, just leave it checked (as it was stated before).



I'm happy that finally it works! You can get me a drink when we meet in person :D


Take a look at them (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/2364113-guide-building-4k-htpc-madvr-95.html#post58165252), it only can give you an idea about them since you have way more powerful card than me.


Cinema, DTM on in the TV for HDR10.

I'll answer the others later ...

Thanks for the info! I bet you've had to explain some things to me at least twice, getting a bit confused with so much new info. Thanks for being patient with me! :)

Hehe sure thing!

What is DTM?

The ID tab displays info based on the EDID of the TV. That is not correct in your case, mine reports perfectly everything (8/10/12bit , hdr capability, etc.). Although I don't think it matters at all.
Delete completely the LG device from madVR, then maybe it will recognise it well.


Good question whether it's used or not in HDR passthrough mode. I think it is.


Yes, calibration tab should reflect the capability of the display device, not the content.

And I also added my custom timings and this line to the CRU post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1868998#post1868998):
"remember, this approach is modifying "back porch" (horizontal and vertical values) only!"

Deleting the TV from madVR didn't help. It's still showing 8 different identifications with the 8th one being the only one not grayed out. The identification 8 still displays bitdepth as 8 bit and no hdr etc. Don't know if it matters though, but it is bugging me a bit.

I actually don't remember any more if I had to change any other values other than back porch. But if the playback is buttery smooth then could there even be an issue?

Sorry for the late reply. I still have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. In MPC-HC should I have madVR added into external filters? Like this: https://imgur.com/a/nmICaF0

2. Is 12 frames being presented in advance in madVR overkill? Should I lower the value?

3. About DXVA2 copy-back. I didn't quite get why it might be better than DXVA2 native. Would a tl;dr be possible? Also, if I have DXVA2 copy-back enabled from MPC-HC I still should have Direct3D 11 enabled from madVR?

4. About the data blocks in CRU. Should I have anything else other than DisplayID and CEA-861? I noticed there is an HDR static metadata block for example. Does it have any useful purpose?

EDIT: Also wondering about average and max rendering times and dithering algorithms. I previously was using Error diffusion 1 but after a bit of research I thought to try ordered dithering. I'm not sure if I see any quality difference. The positive is lower rendering times. Now I enabled NGU Sharp chroma upscaling instead of super-xbr. My average rendering times are staying below 30 ms, usually around 25 ms when watching 4K HDR 24p content. From what I've understood 30 ms is the maximum rendering time one can have and still achieve smooth playback, is that right? Though sometimes the maxium rendering time goes way above 30 ms, that's bad, right? It would seem that if I want to go for either of the error diffusion options I have to change back to super-xbr. Any thoughts on which would be better, having super-xbr and error diffusion 1/2 or having ngu sharp with ordered dithering? Also, I think the color banding is quite less noticeable with DXVA2 copy-back instead of DXVA2 native, so there's one clear improvement.

[chros]

Thanks for the info! I bet you've had to explain some things to me at least twice, getting a bit confused with so much new info.
What is DTM?
No worries. DTM: Dynamic Tone Mapping.

I actually don't remember any more if I had to change any other values other than back porch. But if the playback is buttery smooth then could there even be an issue?
It can, that's what I mentioned before.
But you can easily check it:
- run CRU and take a look at the set numbers
- run madvr optimiser and take a look at the EDID values (that belongs to the given refresh rate)

1. In MPC-HC should I have madVR added into external filters? Like this: https://imgur.com/a/nmICaF0
There's no need for it, just select it from the dropdown.

2. Is 12 frames being presented in advance in madVR overkill?
I use the default value.

4. About the data blocks in CRU. Should I have anything else other than DisplayID and CEA-861?
Don't touch anything else :) We're only supposed to add DisplayID at the top of that list, nothing else.

3. About DXVA2 copy-back. I didn't quite get why it might be better than DXVA2 native. Would a tl;dr be possible? Also, if I have DXVA2 copy-back enabled from MPC-HC I still should have Direct3D 11 enabled from madVR?
...
Also, I think the color banding is quite less noticeable with DXVA2 copy-back instead of DXVA2 native, so there's one clear improvement.
You just answered one of your own question :)

About madvr specific questions:
- madVR Options Explained (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787) by @Asmodian
- madvr options (https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&pid=2238942#pid2238942) by @Warner306
- if you will still have questions then go to the big madvr thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228)

[ThunderFi]

No worries. DTM: Dynamic Tone Mapping.


It can, that's what I mentioned before.
But you can easily check it:
- run CRU and take a look at the set numbers
- run madvr optimiser and take a look at the EDID values (that belongs to the given refresh rate)


There's no need for it, just select it from the dropdown.


I use the default value.


Don't touch anything else :) We're only supposed to add DisplayID at the top of that list, nothing else.


You just answered one of your own question :)

About madvr specific questions:
- madVR Options Explained (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787) by @Asmodian
- madvr options (https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&pid=2238942#pid2238942) by @Warner306
- if you will still have questions then go to the big madvr thread (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228)

Oh I see. I thought HDR passthrough was the better option? Or does it depend on the content?

Okay, so I decided to start from a clean slate with the custom timings. I deleted the DisplayID block, reset my display and restarted my PC. Then I went and put up a movie on my TV and chose EDID from madVR custom timings for 23p. Then I restarted my PC and then opened a movie and madVR again. Then I let it optimize. After optimization I chose optimized pixel clock #1 because the current timings resulted in a frame repeat in every 1.14 hours. After that I restarted again and let madVR optimize again and I got these results: https://imgur.com/a/aBDoPnO

I was really satisfied with having only 1 frame drop every 1.49 days. Though I had been wondering why the video playback was choppy/stuttery, basically not smooth at all even though the stats seemed so good. Anyway, I just went on with it. I took a picture of those settings, which is the one I linked above. Then I deleted the custom timings from madVR and restarted my PC. After that I went to CRU to create my DisplayID block again. This is how the CRU timings were by default at this point: https://imgur.com/a/YoczVUO

Really trying to follow your instructions I went on and only changed back porch horizontal + vertical and pixel clock. What I soon noticed was that when I did that I didn't end up with the correct refresh rate, as you can see from here: https://imgur.com/a/f4uaUH9

madVR reported in the optimized timing parameters that the mode I had selected with the pixel clock of 297.77 MHz would result in a refresh rate of 23.97631... as you can see from the previous picture. Well, in CRU this pixel clock didn't result in the desired refresh rate.

I tried with the correct pixel clock which resulted in the wrong refresh rate and I also tried with the correct refresh rate which resulted in the wrong pixel clock. As you can see from the pictures the values of front porch horizontal, blanking and total are different in CRU and in the optimized timings in madVR even though I did not touch them at all. I'm getting really confused and a bit frustrated. How can this be so hard? On top of it all when I began this whole process madVR was showing my TV's identification correctly. It showed identification 1 which included all the correct bitdepth, hdr and color gamut info. After doing the custom resolution with CRU it showed identification 8 with the wrong information.

I don't know what to do here.

EDIT: I also noticed that when I have applied a custom resolution using CRU (in the DisplayID) in madVR there are no EDID timings available at all. What I mean is that when I go into custom modes and click on the 23p option I see no EDID option there at all. The EDID option comes back when I'm not using CRU to apply a custom resolution. Is this normal?

[Asmodian]

You need to make sure madVR starts from the same settings as CRU's defaults: Don't chose the EDID from madVR custom timings or let madVR change resolutions, simply set your resolution manually in Windows. You also do not need to run that second test optimizing your already optimal settings. It sounds like the refresh rate madVR set originally did not match what CRU starts at.

[ThunderFi]

You need to make sure madVR starts from the same settings as CRU's defaults: Don't chose the EDID from madVR custom timings or let madVR change resolutions, simply set your resolution manually in Windows. You also do not need to run that second test optimizing your already optimal settings. It sounds like the refresh rate madVR set originally did not match what CRU starts at.

Hey and thanks for the reply!

It's getting late here so I'm going to try that tomorrow. Just to be sure that I understand:

1. If I'm not to choose EDID from madVR custom timings for the optimization process, than what should I choose?

2. Whatever mode I'm supposed to choose in madVR, should I edit all of the timings to match the ones I can find in CRU?

Also as a side note. Previously just selecting 23 Hz in NVIDIA CP resulted in the same choppy/stuttery playback as has happened many times when trying to get custom timings working. Though right now the 23 Hz from NVIDIA CP seems to be working just fine, no stutter. Though madVR OSD shows a frame repeat every 5 minutes or so.

[VBB]

I've been following this thread since the beginning, since I have an LG C7 OLED myself, and I'm always curious to see what settings others are using. I've had the TV for almost two years now, and up until a couple of months ago I always used it in non-PC mode with madVR set to switch to the proper frame rate. Due to the stutter inherent in all OLEDs, I set Dejudder to 5 and called it a day. You get kinda used to the soap opera effect after a while, and the added clarity is definitely welcome, but recently the artifacts started to really bug me. Then I came across a post on AVS which led me to try the following:

Set desktop refresh rate to 60Hz, 8-bit, RGB Full

Set madVR to 8-bit output.

Disable rate switching in madVR.

Enable smooth motion in madVR.

On the TV, set to PC mode or normal. Personally, I prefer 4:2:2 over the heavy banding that comes with PC mode.

Disable Real Cinema and TruMotion in both SDR and HDR modes. To disable Real Cinema in HDR, it helps to have the LG's menu open at that setting ahead of time, because you only get a second to change it.

The result is the smoothest picture I've ever had on my OLED (without the use TruMotion). No artifacts, no judder, and no repeated frames (no need for CRU). Only a hint of motion blur due to smooth motion at 60Hz. I can't wait for HDMI 2.1, so that I can do this at 120Hz (with a new TV and video card, of course).

If anyone wants to convince me to use PC mode again, I'm all ears ;)

[chros]

After optimization I chose optimized pixel clock #1 because the current timings resulted in a frame repeat in every 1.14 hours. After that I restarted again and let madVR optimize again and I got these results: https://imgur.com/a/aBDoPnO
This looks good so far: only the back porch values have been changed.

Really trying to follow your instructions I went on and only changed back porch horizontal + vertical and pixel clock. What I soon noticed was that when I did that I didn't end up with the correct refresh rate, as you can see from here: https://imgur.com/a/f4uaUH9
That's why: you have to enter *all* the values that belongs to madvr result you selected!!! :)
Start over :)

No artifacts, no judder, and no repeated frames (no need for CRU). Only a hint of motion blur due to smooth motion at 60Hz.
Note that I haven't tried smooth motion on any of my TV, but for me the native refresh rate is good enough: there's no blur/judder, but there is *stutter* on panning shots, although it doesn't bother me since I got used to it in the last ~15 years :)

If anyone wants to convince me to use PC mode again, I'm all ears ;)
:) It's a matter of personal preference since there is still *not* perfect mode with HDR content:
- (near) chroma 4:4:4 (with its high sharpness) vs (small to none) banding/posterisation
- there's a big difference in HDR between 7 and 8 series:
-- HDR handling has been changed for the better
-- there *is* DTM in PC mode with 8 series (that I like)

With SDR content PC mode is the clear winner on the 8 series.

[ThunderFi]

This looks good so far: only the back porch values have been changed.


That's why: you have to enter *all* the values that belongs to madvr result you selected!!! :)
Start over :)

So, I have to make sure that in CRU I edit all of the values to match the ones in madVR optimization? If that's the case then I didn't understand you right. I thought that I should just edit back porch and pixel clock because if I were to edit the other values that might cause problems.

Anyway, I tried doing it again with the values I got from madVR previously, the ones I posted in my previous message. So I didn't go through the optimization process any more. I just went to CRU and did what was needed, restarted my PC and tried to watch a movie. Everything worked well, the playback was very smooth. Then I restarted my computer and once more the same exact custom timings that just worked didn't work properly any more. The movie playback was back to being choppy/stuttery. Aslo, again in madVR the only identification that's not greyed out is the one that doesn't contain any info about bitdepths, color gamuts and HDR.

I seriously don't understand what's the issue. How can timings that resulted in 1 frame drop every 1.49 days cause playback that's unwatchable? Even the regular 23 Hz mode causes choppy/stuttery playback, the default one in NVIDIA CP, that looks just as bad as the custom timings.

I noticed that when I use CRU to create a custom resolution inside the DisplayID block, in NVIDIA CP I find a new resolution under "PC" resolutions and not under "Ultra HD, HD, SD" resolutions. Is this the way CRU is supposed to work?

I've been following this thread since the beginning, since I have an LG C7 OLED myself, and I'm always curious to see what settings others are using. I've had the TV for almost two years now, and up until a couple of months ago I always used it in non-PC mode with madVR set to switch to the proper frame rate. Due to the stutter inherent in all OLEDs, I set Dejudder to 5 and called it a day. You get kinda used to the soap opera effect after a while, and the added clarity is definitely welcome, but recently the artifacts started to really bug me. Then I came across a post on AVS which led me to try the following:

Set desktop refresh rate to 60Hz, 8-bit, RGB Full

Set madVR to 8-bit output.

Disable rate switching in madVR.

Enable smooth motion in madVR.

On the TV, set to PC mode or normal. Personally, I prefer 4:2:2 over the heavy banding that comes with PC mode.

Disable Real Cinema and TruMotion in both SDR and HDR modes. To disable Real Cinema in HDR, it helps to have the LG's menu open at that setting ahead of time, because you only get a second to change it.

The result is the smoothest picture I've ever had on my OLED (without the use TruMotion). No artifacts, no judder, and no repeated frames (no need for CRU). Only a hint of motion blur due to smooth motion at 60Hz. I can't wait for HDMI 2.1, so that I can do this at 120Hz (with a new TV and video card, of course).

If anyone wants to convince me to use PC mode again, I'm all ears ;)

Thanks for the info! I might try this, we'll see. Though I do prefer the PC mode myself as well even though it has heavy banding in certain scenes.

[chros]

I thought that I should just edit back porch and pixel clock...
This part belongs the optimisation process of madvr!

So, I have to make sure that in CRU I edit all of the values to match the ones in madVR optimization?
That's correct :)

Anyway, I tried doing it again with the values I got from madVR previously, the ones I posted in my previous message. So I didn't go through the optimization process any more. I just went to CRU and did what was needed, restarted my PC and tried to watch a movie.
That's correct: if you don't modify anything in your setup then those values should work all the time, so make a note of them.

Everything worked well, the playback was very smooth. Then I restarted my computer and once more the same exact custom timings that just worked didn't work properly any more. The movie playback was back to being choppy/stuttery.
That can mean:
- your GPU driver lost it
- is there still a custom res in madvr? If so, delete it.
- check cru whether the right values are still set
- check madVR OSD that the perfect refresh rate is reported in the top row

It should work :)

Aslo, again in madVR the only identification that's not greyed out is the one that doesn't contain any info about bitdepths, color gamuts and HDR.
I don't understand this part either. E.g. I had to reinstall Win10 (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871834#post1871834) 4 months ago because the OS was confused about the new LG display, the previous one was an LG LCD: I couldn't put out 4k resolution at all :)

I noticed that when I use CRU to create a custom resolution inside the DisplayID block, in NVIDIA CP I find a new resolution under "PC" resolutions and not under "Ultra HD, HD, SD" resolutions. Is this the way CRU is supposed to work?
I think so, yes. (I don't have my PC in front of me now.)

[ThunderFi]

This part belongs the optimisation process of madvr!


That's correct :)


That's correct: if you don't modify anything in your setup then those values should work all the time, so make a note of them.


That can mean:
- your GPU driver lost it
- is there still a custom res in madvr? If so, delete it.
- check cru whether the right values are still set
- check madVR OSD that the perfect refresh rate is reported in the top row

It should work :)


I don't understand this part either. E.g. I had to reinstall Win10 (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1871834#post1871834) 4 months ago because the OS was confused about the new LG display, the previous one was an LG LCD: I couldn't put out 4k resolution at all :)


I think so, yes. (I don't have my PC in front of me now.)

Thanks for the info.

I wanted to be sure that there was nothing weird going on with my GPU so I uninstalled my previous GPU drivers with DDU and installed the newest ones.

After that I went on and tried first to use the NVIDIA CP default 23 Hz refresh rate. At this point I didn't have anything edited in CRU and no custom resolutions in madVR. Is the NVIDIA CP default 23 Hz supposed to give at least somewhat of a smooth playback? My playback is stuttering like hell but there are no frame drops/repeats. It's just not fluid and this has been the case since I started to play around with madVR and thought to try 23 Hz.

Now I tried two different custom resolution timings that I had saved from previous optimizations. Neither of these worked, they resulted in the same stuttering/choppiness or whatever you want to call it.

I just don't understand, isn't even the NVIDIA CP default 23 Hz supposed to work but you just want to get it even better so you do the whole optimization in madVR? In my case the default 23 Hz is horrible like I've said and when optimizing the playback is just as horrible. I just don't understand and I don't know what to do any more. I feel like I've done the optimization -> create custom resolution with CRU in the DisplayID block process so many times and it always ends up not working. It might work after the first restart but after that it goes back to the horrible playback.

[VBB]

Note that I haven't tried smooth motion on any of my TV, but for me the native refresh rate is good enough: there's no blur/judder, but there is *stutter* on panning shots, although it doesn't bother me since I got used to it in the last ~15 years :)

:) It's a matter of personal preference since there is still *not* perfect mode with HDR content:
- (near) chroma 4:4:4 (with its high sharpness) vs (small to none) banding/posterisation
- there's a big difference in HDR between 7 and 8 series:
-- HDR handling has been changed for the better
-- there *is* DTM in PC mode with 8 series (that I like)

With SDR content PC mode is the clear winner on the 8 series.

It's that motion stutter, especially when panning, that led me to try smooth motion. The difference is very noticeable. It turns the stutter into a slight blur. Anyway, yes, the 7 series in PC mode does not allow DTM, so that's another reason for me to use normal 4:2:2 mode. I really hope the 10 series next year will bring banding free 4:4:4 10-bit@120Hz. One can dream, right?

[j82k]

To disable Real Cinema in HDR, it helps to have the LG's menu open at that setting ahead of time, because you only get a second to change it.


Do you have any specific method for that? I know I've had that real cinema disable glitch before with one of the HDR presets but I can't seem to do it anymore. I do also wonder if one could glitch the SDR game preset to do a color gamut change.

[VBB]

Do you have any specific method for that? I know I've had that real cinema disable glitch before with one of the HDR presets but I can't seem to do it anymore. I do also wonder if one could glitch the SDR game preset to do a color gamut change.

Here's the original post from AVS:

"For those wondering how to turn off Real Cinema in HDR mode, I managed to find a way to do it.
You all noticed that the menu is grayed out in HDR mode and can't be changed, but still active anyway.

The trick is simple for those who use a HTPC, other will need to connect a laptop to the TV on the HDMI input you want to change, and force HDR mode through windows.
Go into the settings menu where RC is located, then open your graphic card utility, and change the refresh rate.
You will notice that for a very small time, RC options becomes selectable at the refresh rate change then is greyed out again (we're talking about half a second here, really quick).
I tried to use the remote to get into the RC menu in that short time window, could'n do it, but after several refresh rate changes, I bugged the menu, and RC stayed active, then I could change it.
I checked afterwards, playing a hdr video, the RC menu is grayed out again, but it is now disabled.

For HTPC users, madvr with display options off, smooth motion always, display set to 60Hz, RC off and TM off, enjoy a completely judder free playback."

[chros]

I just don't understand, isn't even the NVIDIA CP default 23 Hz supposed to work but you just want to get it even better so you do the whole optimization in madVR?
Have you switched the TV into 23p? :)
Honestly, I can't tell more that we've already discussed: go through them again and experiment, it has to work!
Let us know when it does and what was the issue.

I really hope the 10 series next year will bring banding free 4:4:4 10-bit@120Hz. One can dream, right?
:) I wouldn't dream, I bet it won't even do proper 4:4:4 either!

... but after several refresh rate changes, I bugged the menu, and RC stayed active, then I could change it ...
:D Nice!

[ThunderFi]

Have you switched the TV into 23p? :)
Honestly, I can't tell more that we've already discussed: go through them again and experiment, it has to work!
Let us know when it does and what was the issue.


What do you mean by changing the TV into 23p? Shouldn't it be enough to change the refresh rate in NVIDIA CP? I haven't tried doing anything again yet but might do so soon. I want to get it working but I've been so frustrated with the issues I've been having that I wanted to take a break.

EDIT: Something that has happened a few times happened again. After a restart the default 23 Hz from NVIDIA CP resulted in a smooth playback. Then I restarted my PC without changing ANY SETTINGS and the playback went back to being choppy/stuttery. How is that even possible? What's going on?

[Asmodian]

Are you sure the choppy/stuttery is due to the wrong refresh rate? Trust the OSD's drop/repeat rate for tuning the refresh rate, if the OSD says everything is fine but you are getting stuttery playback your issue is not due to the refresh rate but something else.

Have you tried using Windowed Overlay in madVR? Disable D3D11 and enable windowed overlay to see if that helps.

Edit: Smooth motion is a great option too, I usually use it even though I also have a well tuned 23 Hz refresh rate.

[j82k]

Here's the original post from AVS:

"For those wondering how to turn off Real Cinema in HDR mode, I managed to find a way to do it.
You all noticed that the menu is grayed out in HDR mode and can't be changed, but still active anyway.

The trick is simple for those who use a HTPC, other will need to connect a laptop to the TV on the HDMI input you want to change, and force HDR mode through windows.
Go into the settings menu where RC is located, then open your graphic card utility, and change the refresh rate.
You will notice that for a very small time, RC options becomes selectable at the refresh rate change then is greyed out again (we're talking about half a second here, really quick).
I tried to use the remote to get into the RC menu in that short time window, could'n do it, but after several refresh rate changes, I bugged the menu, and RC stayed active, then I could change it.
I checked afterwards, playing a hdr video, the RC menu is grayed out again, but it is now disabled.

For HTPC users, madvr with display options off, smooth motion always, display set to 60Hz, RC off and TM off, enjoy a completely judder free playback."

Thanks, just tried this for like an hour and unfortunately I can't get it to work. I even made batch files with display changer so I can switch refresh rates really fast but it never glitched and even when I was fast enough to get into the real cinema option that seemed to just change it for the SDR preset which the TV switches to for like a second while changing refresh rate.
I know that I had this real cinema glitch unintentionally happen some time ago. I can only imagine that they fixed this in a firmware update. I have a C8 btw so maybe it just doesn't work on that one anymore.

[VBB]

Thanks, just tried this for like an hour and unfortunately I can't get it to work. I even made batch files with display changer so I can switch refresh rates really fast but it never glitched and even when I was fast enough to get into the real cinema option that seemed to just change it for the SDR preset which the TV switches to for like a second while changing refresh rate.
I know that I had this real cinema glitch unintentionally happen some time ago. I can only imagine that they fixed this in a firmware update. I have a C8 btw so maybe it just doesn't work on that one anymore.

It's possible this doesn't work on the 8-series. I don't understand why LG chose to permanently enable Real Cinema for HDR only. Makes no sense...

The way I was able to do this was, in SDR mode I opened the menu down to the Real Cinema "on/off" option. Then I started playing an HDR file, and while the TV switched into HDR mode I was able to select "off" for like a split second. Took me a few tries.

Have you tried 60Hz in PC mode? I wonder if the banding is any better with the 8-series. In PC mode Real Cinema is disabled by default in both SDR and HDR, as I'm sure you know.

[VBB]

ThunderFi, I think your stuttering issue is with the RTX 2080. Many people have reported this. Maybe Asmodian recalls what the actual fix, if any, was. If you insist on having madVR frame rate switch, I'd make sure that actually works, before messing with custom resolutions at all.

1. Get rid of all custom resolutions in both madVR and nVidia control panel. Make sure Windows HDR is disabled.
2. Reset nVidia control panel to defaults.
3. In the nVidia control panel, under Manage 3D Settings, only change Power Management Mode to "Adaptive". Leave everything else at defaults.
4. Under Change Resolution, leave it set to the panel's native resolution and 60Hz. Check "Use NVIDIA color settings", RGB, 8 bpc, Full.
5. In madVR, set display modes like here: https://i.postimg.cc/vTCHLLLC/display-modes.png
6. In madVR, under rendering, general settings, uncheck "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" (if that still results in stuttering, try with it checked to see if it makes a difference)
7. Play a video to see if the switching works as it should.

Alternative approach for playback at 60Hz only:

5. In madVR, uncheck everything here: https://i.postimg.cc/vTCHLLLC/display-modes.png. Under rendering, smooth motion, check "always".

[ThunderFi]

Are you sure the choppy/stuttery is due to the wrong refresh rate? Trust the OSD's drop/repeat rate for tuning the refresh rate, if the OSD says everything is fine but you are getting stuttery playback your issue is not due to the refresh rate but something else.

Have you tried using Windowed Overlay in madVR? Disable D3D11 and enable windowed overlay to see if that helps.

Edit: Smooth motion is a great option too, I usually use it even though I also have a well tuned 23 Hz refresh rate.

I tested with a few other refresh rates as well again, to see if the stuttering persists. Apparently the higher I go in the refresh rates the less noticeable the stuttering is. Here's an example of the stuttering when the TV is set to 23 Hz: https://gfycat.com/threadbaredependentcoelacanth Sorry for the not so great quality, but you should be able to see how the playback stutters or whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, switching to windowed overlay and disabling D3D11 seems to be working right now, the playback is smooth even with the regular not optimized 23 Hz refresh rate. There's a frame drop every ~6 minutes or so but there's no stuttering.

After testing that, I restarted my PC because I have had cases when the playback was smooth but after a restart it turned back to stuttering. After the restart the movie was still smooth. I tested with same movie in VLC (not using madVR) to just see if the stuttering happens with that and it does.

I also tried disabling only D3D11 and with that I tried FSE and windowed overlay and neither of those. The only one that resulted in a non-stuttering playback was when I had D3D11 disabled and windowed overlay enabled. This is very weird to me, this can't be the way it's "supposed to be", right?

Is there disadvantages to not using D3D11 and using windowed overlay with it? Without D3D11 madVR uses D3D9. Should I try to make D3D11 work somehow and if so, any suggestions? Also, any further information on why having D3D11 enabled without windowed overlay results in stuttering playback?

EDIT: Replying to VBB:

ThunderFi, I think your stuttering issue is with the RTX 2080. Many people have reported this. Maybe Asmodian recalls what the actual fix, if any, was. If you insist on having madVR frame rate switch, I'd make sure that actually works, before messing with custom resolutions at all.

1. Get rid of all custom resolutions in both madVR and nVidia control panel. Make sure Windows HDR is disabled.
2. Reset nVidia control panel to defaults.
3. In the nVidia control panel, under Manage 3D Settings, only change Power Management Mode to "Adaptive". Leave everything else at defaults.
4. Under Change Resolution, leave it set to the panel's native resolution and 60Hz. Check "Use NVIDIA color settings", RGB, 8 bpc, Full.
5. In madVR, set display modes like here: https://i.postimg.cc/vTCHLLLC/display-modes.png
6. In madVR, under rendering, general settings, uncheck "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" (if that still results in stuttering, try with it checked to see if it makes a difference)
7. Play a video to see if the switching works as it should.

Alternative approach for playback at 60Hz only:

5. In madVR, uncheck everything here: https://i.postimg.cc/vTCHLLLC/display-modes.png. Under rendering, smooth motion, check "always".

Actually I wasn't using madVR frame rate switch. The stuttering was even with the regular 23 Hz I can select in NVIDIA CP or straight from Windows. Right now everything seems to be working fine with D3D11 disabled and windowed overlay enabled. But like I said before the edit, this can't be the way it's "supposed to be"? And is there downsides to not using D3D11?

About the adaptive power management. I use my PC to play games quite a bit and I have selected the maximum performance on a game by game basis. The overall 3D setting for power management is at default.

[VBB]

About the adaptive power management. I use my PC to play games quite a bit and I have selected the maximum performance on a game by game basis. The overall 3D setting for power management is at default.

If default in your case = optimal, then you definitely want to switch that to adaptive or max performance globally. Optimal throttles madVR a lot, so you will get dropped frames.

[ThunderFi]

If default in your case = optimal, then you definitely want to switch that to adaptive or max performance globally. Optimal throttles madVR a lot, so you will get dropped frames.

Yes that's the default. I actually had set the maximum performance for MPC-HC specifically and checked with GPU-Z that my GPU is running at maximum core and memory clock (my GPU is overclocked). Do you still think I should adjust the global setting, or should it be enough to put only MPC-HC at maximum performance?

[VBB]

Yes that's the default. I actually had set the maximum performance for MPC-HC specifically and checked with GPU-Z that my GPU is running at maximum core and memory clock (my GPU is overclocked). Do you still think I should adjust the global setting, or should it be enough to put only MPC-HC at maximum performance?

Setting it individually should be enough. I still believe your problem is with the RTX card itself. They have been known to cause stuttering without dropped/repeated frames reported in madVR.

To answer your other question, Direct3D 11 should work, and it is a requirement for greater than 8-bit playback. Nothing wrong with Direct3D 9 overlay, though. But with that, you might want to set the entire video chain to 8-bit (which is preferred on the OLEDs anyway due to banding with 10/12-bit).

[Asmodian]

Right now everything seems to be working fine with D3D11 disabled and windowed overlay enabled. But like I said before the edit, this can't be the way it's "supposed to be"? And is there downsides to not using D3D11?

The only downside to not using D3D11 is that you cannot use >8 bit. If you do not use 10 bit anyway there are no downsides. Windowed Overlay bypasses most of the OS so it is a good option when the OS is doing something bad. Screenshots outside of madVR do not work, I suppose that could be considered a downside.

I believe the issue is a combination of the new WDM in Win10 1903 and Nvidia's current drivers for the RTX cards. I had it with the first driver for the new WDM but not with any of the later ones. It is still a common issue reported by users and I do not know why some systems have it and some not. :(

[j82k]

It's possible this doesn't work on the 8-series. I don't understand why LG chose to permanently enable Real Cinema for HDR only. Makes no sense...

The way I was able to do this was, in SDR mode I opened the menu down to the Real Cinema "on/off" option. Then I started playing an HDR file, and while the TV switched into HDR mode I was able to select "off" for like a split second. Took me a few tries.

Have you tried 60Hz in PC mode? I wonder if the banding is any better with the 8-series. In PC mode Real Cinema is disabled by default in both SDR and HDR, as I'm sure you know.

Thanks for the help, somehow I got RC turned off for the HDR Cinema preset now, so it still works on the 8 series. :)

I'm not even sure how I got it to work but I was basically using madTPG to constantly turn HDR on and off while aiming and mashing with the remote at the real cinema option.

It is now greyed out but definitely disabled because 60 Hz + madVR smooth motion would cause terrible hitching and stutter if real cinema was enabled.

PC-mode HDR still has bad banding on the C8 even with 8-bit output.

Also, thanks LG for locking certain settings for absolutely no reason and having me mash buttons for 2 hours to glitch disable it...


https://i.imgur.com/wRHnw0V.jpg

[VBB]

Awesome! Let me know what you think of using the 60Hz + smooth motion combo. After using it for a while now, I couldn't go back to native frame rate + Real Cinema/TruMotion. My only issue is that I don't want to use the built-in apps anymore :D

[ThunderFi]

Setting it individually should be enough. I still believe your problem is with the RTX card itself. They have been known to cause stuttering without dropped/repeated frames reported in madVR.

To answer your other question, Direct3D 11 should work, and it is a requirement for greater than 8-bit playback. Nothing wrong with Direct3D 9 overlay, though. But with that, you might want to set the entire video chain to 8-bit (which is preferred on the OLEDs anyway due to banding with 10/12-bit).

Okay, thanks. I'll set MPC-HC to max performance like so. Thanks for the info. I might like the 10 bit more still, even with the banding. Really sucks that it doesn't work properly because of the stuttering.

The only downside to not using D3D11 is that you cannot use >8 bit. If you do not use 10 bit anyway there are no downsides. Windowed Overlay bypasses most of the OS so it is a good option when the OS is doing something bad. Screenshots outside of madVR do not work, I suppose that could be considered a downside.

I believe the issue is a combination of the new WDM in Win10 1903 and Nvidia's current drivers for the RTX cards. I had it with the first driver for the new WDM but not with any of the later ones. It is still a common issue reported by users and I do not know why some systems have it and some not. :(

Thanks for the info as well! I kind of would like to use 10 bit so this is not the optimal setup for me. But I guess it's still better than what it was, now the movies are at least watchable. But if it's a WDM/driver issue then there's nothing else for me to do other try to roll back to previous ones and see what works? Would contacting NVIDIA be a good idea? That's really weird that not everyone has the same problem. What's also weird is that sometimes the default 23 Hz worked properly with D3D11 and no windowed overlay but then a PC restart made the problem come back. That's something that I just don't understand. How can something work properly but after a restart and without changing any settings it's back to stuttering like a madman?

Also, I have 3 displays in my setup. The first one is a 1440p 144 Hz display, the second one is a 1080p 144 Hz display and the third one is my LG C8. I tried to watch a movie in 23 Hz on my main display, the 1440p one and on that display there is no stuttering even when D3D11 is enabled. Could that be because of the display is connected via display port and the C8 is connected via HDMI? Or is it something else? They both use the same GPU so shouldn't the problem be the same, or does the cable affect it?

[Asmodian]

Windows is not good at handling screens with refresh rates that do not match the main screen. If you set all your displays to 23 Hz or disable the other two I expect your issue to go away. The issue with reboots is part of the reason I strongly suspect Windows, something changes about how it is handling the WDM after a reboot.

[ThunderFi]

Windows is not good at handling screens with refresh rates that do not match the main screen. If you set all your displays to 23 Hz or disable the other two I expect your issue to go away. The issue with reboots is part of the reason I strongly suspect Windows, something changes about how it is handling the WDM after a reboot.

I have noticed that myself as well. Previously my second monitor was 60 Hz while my main monitor was 144 Hz. Things got better after I got both of them to be 144 Hz. Now there's the TV in the mix as well.

I tried disabling the other displays and leaving only my TV connected to my PC. I still couldn't use D3D11. The same stuttering happened again as before. So it isn't about the other two displays. At least it shouldn't be, right?

Any other ideas? I would love to get this fixed. Do you still think the problem is related to Windows or could it be my GPU as some have thought? I really want to get this fixed but this is beyond my expertise unfortunately, so I'm more than open to more suggestions.

[Asmodian]

I tried disabling the other displays and leaving only my TV connected to my PC. I still couldn't use D3D11. The same stuttering happened again as before. So it isn't about the other two displays. At least it shouldn't be, right?

Did you reboot?

There are also users with stutter and only one display. There seem to be multiple possible causes. :(

Any other ideas? I would love to get this fixed. Do you still think the problem is related to Windows or could it be my GPU as some have thought? I really want to get this fixed but this is beyond my expertise unfortunately, so I'm more than open to more suggestions.

I am starting to get in the territory of random ideas rather than things that make a lot of sense. My 2080 Ti is fine but others are not.

Other power options? Is your CPU downclocking? Driver reinstalls?

Sorry, I will post if I think of anything or see any good ideas somewhere else. :o

edit: An older issue is the new Windows 10 feature Focus Assist, you need to disable everything associated with it, even the Automatic rules for turning it off in some situations and the "Show me a summary of what I missed while focus assist was on" option (?!?). f.lux and similar programs cause problems as well.

[ThunderFi]

Did you reboot?

There are also users with stutter and only one display. There seem to be multiple possible causes. :(



I am starting to get in the territory of random ideas rather than things that make a lot of sense. My 2080 Ti is fine but others are not.

Other power options? Is your CPU downclocking? Driver reinstalls?

Sorry, I will post if I think of anything or see any good ideas somewhere else. :o

edit: An older issue is the new Windows 10 feature Focus Assist, you need to disable everything associated with it, even the Automatic rules for turning it off in some situations and the "Show me a summary of what I missed while focus assist was on" option (?!?). f.lux and similar programs cause problems as well.

I didn't reboot when I first tried disabling the other displays but now I did just that, it didn't help. The only way to get stutter free playback even with just TV connect was to disable D3D11 and enable windowed overlay.

I understand, I appreciate even the random ideas!

Are you saying that there are people with the same 2080 Ti model that you have that are experiencing the same issues as me? Did you win some sort of lottery to get a perfect specimen? :D

My CPU native core clock is 4,2 GHz. I have turbo mode enabled from BIOS that overclocks it to 4,5 GHz automatically. I also have an XMP profile enabled. My GPU has an +85 MHz core overclock and +700 MHz memory overclock. These should stable overclocks, I've done a number of benchmarks with them (I have also tried without overclocks and even underclocking my GPU, didn't help with the stuttering). My CPU never goes below 4,2 GHz but the clocks do vary in the range of 4,2 GHz - 4,5 GHz. In NVIDIA CP I have set MPC-HC to use maximun performance. In BIOS I have selected the Asus optimal performance mode which should disable every power saving feature, at least most of it. I think I have manually disabled some power saving features from BIOS.

I also disabled everything related to the focus assistant, that didn't help either.

EDIT: Again got the playback to be smooth somehow, no stutters. After a restart it was back to stuttering. I just don't understand what's going on.

[ThunderFi]

An update

As of right now everything seems to be working as it's supposed to but I'm still afraid that the stuttering might come back.

I went through "everything" in Windows that came to mind and I also checked my BIOS settings just in case. Nothing helped there.

Then late last night I thought "Hmm, when was the last time I installed Windows updates?" Well well, the newest Windows version (1903) was available for download. Somehow I hadn't downloaded it before (probably because I had automatic updates disabled). There were quite a bit of other updates as well. After installing everything there was to install and triple checking that there wasn't anything more it would seem that the video stuttering got fixed, at least partially. After installing the updates and restarting I managed to get my video playback working smoothly if I enable FSE. That was with D3D11 this time. I restarted once again and it still worked but with only FSE. Without it or with windowed overlay the stuttering issue persists.

I will see if the issue comes back later but right now everything seems to be okay. I can live with having to use FSE if that means that I can use D3D11 and there's no stuttering.

To be honest I'm afraid to try to create a custom resolution with CRU. Right now that it seems to be working I'm afraid to touch anything :D But I might be celebrating too soon, the stuttering might come back. I will report here what happens later.

EDIT: After a third restart the video playback still works without stuttering while D3D11 and FSE are enabled. So far so good!

[VBB]

Good to hear! How do you like your C8 in general? Any issues with motion, banding, etc? Do you use Real Cinema/TruMotion at all?

[ThunderFi]

Good to hear! How do you like your C8 in general? Any issues with motion, banding, etc? Do you use Real Cinema/TruMotion at all?

I love almost all of it, though if I had known that I can't get chroma 4:4:4 without color banding I might have went with some other brand, maybe. To be honest I didn't know much about these things before I bought the TV so it might have not helped haha. But I still think I prefer the PC mode with 10 bit color, the picture is so much more sharper than in the regular HDMI mode. I might compare them again but the picture looks so nice with PC mode and 10 bit color that I might just try to cope with the banding.

I don't think I have any issues with motion. Since I know and see that the 24p judder is much more noticeable with OLEDS because of the almost instant pixel response time, I don't think there's any other "problems". It also might be that I wouldn't know where to compare it to you know, even if there were some problems.

I usually let real cinema be where it's at by default since in most of the picture modes I use it's grayed out and I don't feel the need to try and glitch it out to change it.

[chros]

After a third restart the video playback still works without stuttering while D3D11 and FSE are enabled. So far so good!
Glad to hear it! Strange combination of OS, GPU, driver. Just forbid the windows update :)

What frame repeat value do you get now on MadVR OSD? 12 mins?
I think you can apply the previously noted values in CRU: it shouldn't affect your system.

I don't think I have any issues with motion. Since I know and see that the 24p judder is much more noticeable with OLEDS because of the almost instant pixel response time
It's not judder (https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p) but stutter (https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/stutter).
I don't have any issues with it either: even slow panning shots are smooth, although faster ones are not.

[ThunderFi]

Glad to hear it! Strange combination of OS, GPU, driver. Just forbid the windows update :)

What frame repeat value do you get now on MadVR OSD? 12 mins?
I think you can apply the previously noted values in CRU: it shouldn't affect your system.


It's not judder (https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p) but stutter (https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/stutter).
I don't have any issues with it either: even slow panning shots are smooth, although faster ones are not.

Indeed! Very weird for sure.

Right now I'm getting 1 frame repeat in every ~6 minutes or so. I know that's far from optimal. I'm kind of wary to try the CRU again. I feel like it did something to the EDID info of my TV since it messed up the madVR identification. I also feel like the picture itself changed when I used CRU, it didn't just get smoother but gamma seemed to change or something like that. I might try to do the optimization process again and then CRU, maybe.

Thanks for the info!

Just to be sure, if I'm going to do the optimization again, do I choose the EDID option like so in the picture? Then I test it, then restart my PC. Then do the optimization for 30 minutes. Then after that take a screencap of the optimized settings. After that I delete the custom timings and restart my PC. Then I go into CRU and input the optimized settings entirely to CRU in the DisplayID block and then restart, and that should be it, right? I want to be very sure this time that I do everything right.
https://imgur.com/a/VY7y0w0

[Asmodian]

But I still think I prefer the PC mode with 10 bit color, the picture is so much more sharper than in the regular HDMI mode.

I seriously doubt using 10 bit color has any impact on the apparent sharpness. I think it is placebo. The only difference when using 10 bit is slightly less dithering noise in madVR's output, and whatever processing differences the TV has (LG seems to handle 10 bit input worse too). This is only for madVR, things with worse/no dithering do want 10 bit a lot. Testing madVR's dithering at different output bitdepths can be enlightening, try comparing 8 bit to 6 or 7 bit. Remember that the difference between 8 and 10 bit is less significant than the difference between 7 and 8 bit.

If you are new I totally sympathise with trying to get 10 bit with all your might. It took me years to stop chasing 10 bit out of madVR. However, if you get a friend to randomly change between 10 bit and 8 bit, with all other settings the same, you are very unlikely to do better than 50:50 trying to guess which mode it is in. There are displays where this is not true but LG's C7/C8/C9 are not them. Actually, on the C7 at least, this was not true; you could notice the extra banding with 10 bit input on the C7. This was fixed on the C9 but with LG's OLEDs 10 bit RGB/4:4:4 input is the same quality as 8 bit, at best. I have never had a C8 but I do not think it handles 10 bit input particularly well, certainly not when in PC mode, since the C7 was terrible and the C9 is basically the same as 8 bit. :p

8 bit 4:4:4 is much higher quality than 10/12 bit 4:2:2 as well, so I really see no point in using 10 bit input with LG's OLEDs from the last few years. (again, speaking only of madVR, but pretty much everything else in Windows is 8 bit only anyway...)

[VBB]

As, he is talking about how much sharper the picture is in PC mode, specifically, due to 4:4:4, not 10-bit. I couldn't really notice that either. At least not when watching content.

[Asmodian]

Sorry, I was simply ranting about the fixation on 10 bit again. :o

He said 4:4:4 and 10 bit. I was trying to say 4:4:4 8 bit is just as good, if not better. :)

I do notice the improvement from not subsampling the chroma so I always use PC mode myself.

[VBB]

I'm with you 100% on the 10-bit vs. 8-bit. So you just live with the added banding in PC mode vs. normal mode? Is it not as bad on the newer models? On my C7 there is a huge difference. It's basically smooth in normal mode and heavily banded in PC mode. I will admit, though, that I noticed this mainly when using banding test videos.

[Asmodian]

I notice a huge difference in banding with full range RGB input between PC mode and HDMI mode. I would rather have the banding than subsampled chroma, but I use the display for a lot more than watching 4:2:0 compressed video.

If I use YCbCr444 limited range input I get basically the same banding as when using HDMI mode, but while in PC mode with 4:4:4 chroma. This has the GPU converting madVR's output but it seems to do a better job than the display does, which probably works in limited range YCbCr internally somewhere given the banding differences. This seems like the best compromise I can get. I cannot stand subsampled chroma but the banding is still pretty bad with raw 8 bit RGB input on the C9. :(

Edit:
In this exact mode, Nvidia YCbCr444 limited + C9 PC Mode, I still get more banding when using 10 bit instead of 8 bit from madVR (12 bit in Nvidia CP for both). I can simply right click to bring up a menu, which kicks madVR out of 10 bit, and noticeable banding in my 16 bit test gradient virtually disappears.

Not as bad as what I remember on my C7 but I still cannot recommend 10 bit input on the C9 in PC mode. :mad:

[ThunderFi]

I seriously doubt using 10 bit color has any impact on the apparent sharpness. I think it is placebo. The only difference when using 10 bit is slightly less dithering noise in madVR's output, and whatever processing differences the TV has (LG seems to handle 10 bit input worse too). This is only for madVR, things with worse/no dithering do want 10 bit a lot. Testing madVR's dithering at different output bitdepths can be enlightening, try comparing 8 bit to 6 or 7 bit. Remember that the difference between 8 and 10 bit is less significant than the difference between 7 and 8 bit.

If you are new I totally sympathise with trying to get 10 bit with all your might. It took me years to stop chasing 10 bit out of madVR. However, if you get a friend to randomly change between 10 bit and 8 bit, with all other settings the same, you are very unlikely to do better than 50:50 trying to guess which mode it is in. There are displays where this is not true but LG's C7/C8/C9 are not them. Actually, on the C7 at least, this was not true; you could notice the extra banding with 10 bit input on the C7. This was fixed on the C9 but with LG's OLEDs 10 bit RGB/4:4:4 input is the same quality as 8 bit, at best. I have never had a C8 but I do not think it handles 10 bit input particularly well, certainly not when in PC mode, since the C7 was terrible and the C9 is basically the same as 8 bit. :p

8 bit 4:4:4 is much higher quality than 10/12 bit 4:2:2 as well, so I really see no point in using 10 bit input with LG's OLEDs from the last few years. (again, speaking only of madVR, but pretty much everything else in Windows is 8 bit only anyway...)

Yeah I was referring to the 4:4:4 instead of 10 bit but I understand why my post could be a bit misleading. Though I think I see a difference between 8 bit and 10 bit in the colors but it might be placebo. I will have to do some further testing. Anyways, PC mode results in the sharpest image so I think I'll just have to deal with the banding. But I will try 8 bit again. It's such a shame that you can't get banding free chroma 4:4:4. What is the reason for that anyway?

EDIT 1: And also, I am quite new to all of this. So a lot of growing pains in a way I guess.
EDIT 2: Do you think there's no difference in the colors when comparing 8 bit and 10 bit? Something I should have mentioned before is I'm talking about 10 bit HDR content specifically. I'm not saying you're wrong since I have not done enough tests about this. I just wonder, shouldn't 10 bit just look better when talking about colors? More shades displayed?

[huhn]

higher bit deep only lowers the noise floor.
in video encoding is increases quality preventing artifacts.
in processing it avoids artefacts.
and in proper presentation it only lower the noise floor nothing else.
and we are talking about dither noise.

the color it self is "not" different.

[ThunderFi]

higher bit deep only lowers the noise floor.
in video encoding is increases quality preventing artifacts.
in processing it avoids artefacts.
and in proper presentation it only lower the noise floor nothing else.
and we are talking about dither noise.

the color it self is "not" different.

Is this really the case? It doesn't affect colors? Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't 8 bit produce 16.7 million colors and 10 bit produces 1.07 billion colors? If the display has a native 10 bit panel and the media being played is in 10 bit as well, then wouldn't it look better to watch it in 10 bit? More colors than 8 bit? How is this not the case?

[huhn]

because 8 bit 100 % is the same color as 10 bit 100 %.

the different is noise.

[ThunderFi]

because 8 bit 100 % is the same color as 10 bit 100 %.

the different is noise.

What? Really? I just don't seem to understand. How can 16.7 million colors and 1.07 billion colors be the same? Like, I understand if I'm watching 8 bit content then I wouldn't gain anything from using 10 bit. But when I'm watching 10 bit content wouldn't it then be better than 8 bit, because it shows all of the intended colors?

Also, about CRU custom timings. I did the whole optimization process and these were the numbers I got from madVR: https://imgur.com/a/DSUPeV8

With those settings madVR reported no expected frame drops or repeats in the optimization tab. I'm very happy with the result smoothness wise. But one thing I noticed is that indeed my picture seems to be a bit darker right now. In a way I think it looks more natural, like that's the way it's supposed to look. Though still I'm thinking what if this is not how it's supposed to look. Are the custom timings supposed to affect the picture itself so that it seems darker or less bright, however you want to say it?

Once more madVR has now two identifications for my TV and the one that's active (not grayed out) doesn't show any info about HDR and color gamuts, among other things. I may be a bit neurotic but this bothers me. If someone can tell me with certainty that it doesn't matter, then I would be fine :D Does using CRU mess with the displays EDID or something and that's why madVR shows the identification info wrong? Or could the custom timings really mess something up and now my picture isn't what it's supposed to be?

[ThunderFi]

An update again.

So, I reset my CRU settings and restarted my PC. I really felt like the picture was darker with the custom timings, too dark maybe even. I wanted to be sure and compare. Well, after reverting back to default settings and restarting I'm back with the same original problem :scared: The video playback is stuttering, it's unwatchable. Restart doesn't help. The only way to have no stuttering is to not use D3D11 and enable windowed overlay.

Apparently the CRU custom timings did something that caused the problem to come back. The playback was smooth before CRU and it was smooth after I created custom timings. But after resetting to default timings the problem came back. Logically it would seem that indeed CRU did something but how is that possible? I reset everything back to default and default worked well before I went and created custom timings in CRU.

This is so frustrating.

[Asmodian]

I don't see how custom timings would cause the image to get darker?!

Just use Windowed overlay, 8 bit is probably better quality than 10 bit on your display anyway. :p

What? Really? I just don't seem to understand. How can 16.7 million colors and 1.07 billion colors be the same?

Dithering! Also every LG OLED I have seen has -more- banding with 10 bit input, not less. These OLEDs cannot actually show 1.07 billion different colors, not even close.

[ThunderFi]

I don't see how custom timings would cause the image to get darker?!

Just use Windowed overlay, 8 bit is probably better quality than 10 bit on your display anyway. :p



Dithering! Also every LG OLED I have seen has -more- banding with 10 bit input, not less. These OLEDs cannot actually show 1.07 billion different colors, not even close.

I don't understand it either. This is just a guess but since madVR sees a weird identification for my TV after setting custom timings maybe some info changes in my GPU that is not supposed to be changed? Or in Windows?

Anyway, the stuttering is apparent with every kind of video media and it's the same when trying out VLC. This is far from "normal behavior" and somehow I have to find a fix to this. I just don't know what to do any more. I wouldn't think it's a hardware issue but I guess anything is possible at this point. Again, suggestions are welcome.

Yes I also know that there is more banding in 10 bit compared to 8 bit even though there shouldn't be, right? Maybe it's placebo but I think the colors look better in 10 bit compared to 8 bit. I'll have to compare some more for sure but first I want to get this stuttering issue fixed. Once it's fixed I'm not going to use CRU any more. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like it did something that caused this. If the problem returned after resetting CRU to defaults and restarting my PC.

[Asmodian]

I have seriously messed up my displays with CRU in the past, I was never quite sure what happened. Reinstalling Windows fixed it. :o

I used it successfully after that but I don't use it today.

My condolences and Good Luck. I suggest Windows patches and messing with drivers. :(

[ThunderFi]

I have seriously messed up my displays with CRU in the past, I was never quite sure what happened. Reinstalling Windows fixed it. :o

I used it successfully after that but I don't use it today.

My condolences and Good Luck. I suggest Windows patches and messing with drivers. :(

Oh really? You didn't find any easier fix other than reinstalling the whole OS? :( What kind of problems did CRU create for your display back then?

Thanks!

I wanted to return to the 8 bit vs 10 bit discussion. I was so confused by everything people said to me here that I wanted to see for myself. I set my TV's refresh rate to 23 Hz and chose 12 bit RGB full range. Then I downloaded a couple 8 bit/10 bit test patterns and tried them out. First I tried them on my main PC monitor, which is an Asus ROG PG279Q IPS display. The Asus has a native bit depth of 8 bits. While watching the test pattern (there were like two boxes side by side that had grey color gradients inside, the other was 8 bit and the other was 10 bit) I saw that on the Asus the both boxes looked the same. To me that was to be expected, the display can't display 10 bit so then both 8 bit and 10 bit should look the same, correct? Anyway, the gradients were extremely smooth, I couldn't see any clear lines. Then I did the same test on my TV. Both of the boxes looked exactly the same but the worst thing was that I could see clear lines in the gradients, it was the same for both of the boxes. It was also the same with 8 bit and 12 bit selected from NVIDIA CP. How is that even possible? The LG C8 should have a 10 bit panel but it can't display 10 bit? What, how? What???

So indeed it seems that you guys were right, 10 bit doesn't seem to do anything on the TV. I just don't understand how that's possible if it has a native 10 bit panel. And also, how can the 8 bit test pattern look worse on the TV than on the Asus display?

One more thing. Doesn't HDR need 10 bit to be actually HDR or have I understood something wrong? I always thought that HDR = 10 bit color.

[Asmodian]

That is the banding we are talking about.
I am not sure what is "native 10 bit" about these LG OLEDs but the internal processing in PC mode is pretty bad. Test again in HDMI mode.

Sorry, I don't actually remember exactly what went wrong with CRU, it was many years ago now. :o

[VBB]

Thunder, about those test patterns: I'm guessing you used the Spears & Munsil 2160p quantization test, the one with the 8-bit and 10-bit rotating gray ramps. Coincidentally, I checked that one last night on my C7, but only in normal HDMI mode and only in 8-bit. My observation was that the 8-bit ramp on the left showed lines and the 10-bit ramp did not. And that is how it's supposed to look. The fact that the 10-bit ramp was smooth is due to madVR's dithering. If both boxes look smooth, then most likely you have debanding checked in madVR.

And no, HDR does not need 10-bit, even though it is always encoded in 10-bit, if that makes sense. You need to let go of the "10-bit shows more colors" thinking. Color bit depth is about shades of colors, which dithering takes care of at lower bit depths.

[Asmodian]

That test pattern does not test what we think it does. It is not useful for testing banding between 8 and 10 bit inputs on the display, banding is intentionally encoded into both gradients to show how 10 bit is better. If you want to use it for testing banding caused by the TV only look at the 10 bit region and change madVR's or the GPU's output between 8 and 10 bit.

I like those 16 bit gradients with madVR's dithering enabled. They should look totally smooth even on very high contrast displays but LG's OLEDs really mess them up in PC mode, unless sending YCbCr limited range. Even that is not quite as good as when in HDMI mode. :(

gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/z1f4ahg3784lfwz/gradient-perceptual-v2.1_24fps.mkv/file)
gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv (http://www.mediafire.com/file/4dia3lixs0n9xyo/gradient-perceptual-colored-v2.1_24fps.mkv/file)

Edit:
And no, HDR does not need 10-bit, even though it is always encoded in 10-bit, if that makes sense. You need to let go of the "10-bit shows more colors" thinking. Color bit depth is about shades of colors, which dithering takes care of at lower bit depths.

To expand on this more; it isn't that 10 bit can show a color 8 bit cannot, it is that the rounding errors caused by using integer values for colors results in more similar shades so we do not notice the difference between them. We can handle rounding errors with dithering instead when we can set precise color values for every pixel (e.g. no lossy compression like bluray, streaming, cellphone video, etc. all have).

[ThunderFi]

That is the banding we are talking about.
I am not sure what is "native 10 bit" about these LG OLEDs but the internal processing in PC mode is pretty bad. Test again in HDMI mode.

Sorry, I don't actually remember exactly what went wrong with CRU, it was many years ago now. :o

On LG's own website in LG C8 technical information it shows "One billion colors" = "Yes". The text is probably something different in English, I did a quick translation from my native language and I couldn't get into the English version of their site apparently (that's also why I can't link it, just search the C8 on their website and go into the technical specs section). Wouldn't "one billion colors" need 10 bit to be true? I actually tested in HDMI mode. The 8 bit lines were much more clear but I still could still see some lines in the 10 bit version. Should it be completely smooth? I disabled banding reduction from madVR before testing that again.

I see, no problem.

Thunder, about those test patterns: I'm guessing you used the Spears & Munsil 2160p quantization test, the one with the 8-bit and 10-bit rotating gray ramps. Coincidentally, I checked that one last night on my C7, but only in normal HDMI mode and only in 8-bit. My observation was that the 8-bit ramp on the left showed lines and the 10-bit ramp did not. And that is how it's supposed to look. The fact that the 10-bit ramp was smooth is due to madVR's dithering. If both boxes look smooth, then most likely you have debanding checked in madVR.

And no, HDR does not need 10-bit, even though it is always encoded in 10-bit, if that makes sense. You need to let go of the "10-bit shows more colors" thinking. Color bit depth is about shades of colors, which dithering takes care of at lower bit depths.

Haha that's exactly what I used. I did the test again in 8 bit mode and yes, the 8 bit box showed much more clear lines but I still could see lines even in the 10 bit box, they weren't just as visible. Is the 10 bit box supposed to be completely smooth? Because on my end it isn't :o

I just don't understand why it doesn't need it. Don't I lose color accuracy or some shades if I don't use 10 bit? Or is the movie bit depth really 8 bit but it's encoded as 10 bit? Or what's going on? Sorry for you guys having to really explain this to me for me to understand.

Back to the stuttering issue. I have now DDU'd my GPU drivers and installed the newest ones. I have deleted my TV from my PC and restarted my PC, letting it find it again basically. Nothing works. I can't get stutter free playback with MPC-HC or with VLC, unless in madVR I disable D3D11 and enable windowed overlay. There's no stuttering on either of my other displays even with D3D11 and no windowed overlay, only on my TV. This is so frustrating and at this point I'm out of ideas. Do I have a faulty OS, GPU or TV? Any suggestions on how to test that?

EDIT 1: Fixed typos and added missing stuff that came to my mind just after I send the post.

EDIT 2: Thanks Asmodian for the clarification. I think it now makes sense to me, at least more than before :D

EDIT 3: Also here it shows that C8 has 10 bit color depth: https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/picture-quality/gradient

EDIT 4: One question that came to my mind is what about MPC-HC dithering? There's no option to disable it, only random or ordered dithering? Should I somehow disable that because I have dithering enabled in madVR?

EDIT 5: Sorry for so many edits, it's late here and I'm getting tired so my train of thought is not great. Anyway, I just wanted to say that I feel like my stuttering video issue is because of something really simple and stupid, I don't know. I might be completely wrong but that's just a hunch.

[VBB]

That test pattern does not test what we think it does. It is not useful for testing banding between 8 and 10 bit inputs on the display, banding is intentionally encoded into both gradients to show how 10 bit is better.

I get that, but I wasn't testing between 8 and 10-bit. The last time I bothered with 10-bit was when I first got the OLED two years ago :). Last night, I simply wanted to see how that pattern looked with and without madVR's debanding, which I normally keep on low/low. So with it on low/low, the pattern is smooth for both the 8-bit and the 10-bit side, which makes sense, because the debanding is doing its job on the intentionally encoded banding. With debanding off, you can see the steps on the 8-bit side. My point, though, is that in normal HDMI mode and with an 8-bit RGB chain, there is no visible banding caused by the TV itself. In fact (and this could be placebo as well), this is the cleanest picture I've ever gotten out of this C7.

[VBB]

Thunder, the "one billion colors" is display marketing. Always has been. For your particular situation, you should use windowed overlay with all 8-bit. There is zero harm in doing this, and it'll fix your stuttering at least temporarily. You can still use PC mode, if you really want to. On the C8 and C9, you're not locked out of HDR Dynamic Tone Mapping, unlike on the C7.

MPC-HC is just the player. It doesn't do dithering. Sounds like you looked at the built-in LAV Filters settings, which have dithering options, just like madVR. MadVR takes precedence over those, though. You can leave all those LAV settings at default, except the one in the upper right-hand corner for the hardware decoding. If you haven't done so, set that to D3D11 and "automatic".

[huhn]

rtings "bit deep" test is fundamental flawed every TV that supports 10 bit input is a 10 bit screen in there eyes they never rated a TV as BAD in this case even if they totally fail at there test.

they call this 10 bit: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/lg/um7300/um7300-gradient-large.jpg
how hard do you have to fail a banding test if this is not enough is not hard enough...

we still don't know if they even send a dithered image to the screen because you have to do that to really see the performance of the screen an none dithered 10 bit image has for more banding then a dithered 6 bit image.

and about spec written somewhere. who cares about a number they found a 10 bit panel does nothing for you if you fail at basic processing.
even a 6 bit panel will not produce banding if the processing is correct.

EDIT 4: One question that came to my mind is what about MPC-HC dithering? There's no option to disable it, only random or ordered dithering? Should I somehow disable that because I have dithering enabled in madVR?

default settings are default for a reason if you would read the line a top you would notice that it doesn't do anything with madVR.

the 8 bit test you are not even sharing sounds so bad executed that i can not help it to already read about the flaws in it.
use this http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Gradient-16bit.png

you need to understand the different between YCbCr and RGB and how this conversation is done

[ThunderFi]

Thunder, the "one billion colors" is display marketing. Always has been. For your particular situation, you should use windowed overlay with all 8-bit. There is zero harm in doing this, and it'll fix your stuttering at least temporarily. You can still use PC mode, if you really want to. On the C8 and C9, you're not locked out of HDR Dynamic Tone Mapping, unlike on the C7.

MPC-HC is just the player. It doesn't do dithering. Sounds like you looked at the built-in LAV Filters settings, which have dithering options, just like madVR. MadVR takes precedence over those, though. You can leave all those LAV settings at default, except the one in the upper right-hand corner for the hardware decoding. If you haven't done so, set that to D3D11 and "automatic".

I should have expected as much I guess. Yes that is what I am using for now, though I still want to get to the bottom of this issue.

This is the settings page in MPC-HC that I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/a/NKmKPTb

Good to know that madVR takes precedence over those. Something I realized just now (even though I've been to that settings page countless times) is that it shows that active decoder is 'inactive' and that active hardware accelerator is 'none'. Also, the drop down menu that currently shows DXVA2 (copy-back) has no D3D11 option, should it? The listed options are: None, NVIDIA CUVID, Intel QuickSync, DXVA2 native and DXVA2 (copy-back). Should there be a D3D11 option or are you talking about a different settings page? Am I missing D3D11 completely???

[VBB]

huhn, you grumpy, old, German bastard :D (I can say that, because I am exactly that myself)

There really is no conclusive test for 10-bit. I came to that realization years ago, when we first started that thread here on doom9. Dithering will always throw things off. People won't stop trying, though.

[ThunderFi]

rtings "bit deep" test is fundamental flawed every TV that supports 10 bit input is a 10 bit screen in there eyes they never rated a TV as BAD in this case even if they totally fail at there test.

they call this 10 bit: https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/lg/um7300/um7300-gradient-large.jpg
how hard do you have to fail a banding test if this is not enough is not hard enough...

we still don't know if they even send a dithered image to the screen because you have to do that to really see the performance of the screen an none dithered 10 bit image has for more banding then a dithered 6 bit image.

and about spec written somewhere. who cares about a number they found a 10 bit panel does nothing for you if you fail at basic processing.
even a 6 bit panel will not produce banding if the processing is correct.



default settings are default for a reason if you would read the line a top you would notice that it doesn't do anything with madVR.

the 8 bit test you are not even sharing sounds so bad executed that i can not help it to already read about the flaws in it.
use this http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/Gradient-16bit.png

you need to understand the different between YCbCr and RGB and how this conversation is done

Hmm, good to know then. I always thought RTINGS was a trustworthy site, but I guess not?

All of this is new info to me. I've always thought that basically more bits would mean better colors. A learning experience for sure!

The test I'm talking about is the Spears & Munsil 2160p quantization test: I don't want to link it because it was posted to another forum with permission from the creator. Don't know if it's cool to link it without permission.

I'll test with that later, thanks!

I have to understand quite a bit still apparently!

[VBB]

Thunder, now we're getting somewhere! Your version of LAV Filters is super-outdated, and therefore probably also your MPC-HC. Get the latest MPC-HC 1.8.7, which also has some of the latest LAV Filters built-in. Then set to D3D11 and try again.

[VBB]

I'd certainly call RTINGS trustworthy, and they do some of the most detailed testing, but still they don't scrutinize enough. Not the way that some of us here would do.

[ThunderFi]

Thunder, now we're getting somewhere! Your version of LAV Filters is super-outdated, and therefore probably also your MPC-HC. Get the latest MPC-HC 1.8.7, which also has some of the latest LAV Filters built-in. Then set to D3D11 and try again.

I didn't even know that there were newer versions since I trusted the official site. Should have known someone would continue their work and release updates. I downloaded the newest version and selected D3D11 from the drop down menu. Unfortunately this didn't fix the problem I'm having. The only way to get stutter free playback is to disable D3D11 from madVR and enable windowed overlay. Something I did notice however is that even with D3D11 enabled from madVR the playback is smooth UNTIL I put MPC-HC into fullscreen. When it's windowed there's no stuttering but once it's fullscreen it's back to stutter town :(

[Asmodian]

There really is no conclusive test for 10-bit. I came to that realization years ago, when we first started that thread here on doom9. Dithering will always throw things off. People won't stop trying, though.

Yes, we can only test entire playback chains.

Discovering (and accepting) this truth is what broke my quest for a real 10 bit display chain too. If I cannot reliably figure out if the playback chain is dithering why is madVR's tunable high quality dithering a bad thing?

For the C8 (and C7 and C9) madVR even does a much better job than the display, so the desire for a 10 bit playback chain ends up hurting quality instead of helping. :o

[huhn]

I'd certainly call RTINGS trustworthy, and they do some of the most detailed testing, but still they don't scrutinize enough. Not the way that some of us here would do.

they are the best source we have access to but that doesn't change that i think there banding test is flawed.

@ThunderFi
you have to disable d3d11 and FSE or overlay will be disabled when you enter fullscreen.

[VBB]

Thunder, if it only stutters in full-screen, do you mean full-screen exclusive or even windowed full-screen? FSE basically doesn't exist in the newer versions of Windows 10, so setting madVR to windowed FS is probably the best option. Don't know if that will help your situation, though.

[j82k]

Rtings gradient score seems to be completely useless. My previous TV was the LG C6 and my current one is the C8. The most noticeable improvement for me was the smoother gradient handling of the C8, especially with darker colors.

Now looking at the rtings score:
LG C6: Gradient 9.5 :eek:
LG C8: Gradient 9.1 :confused:

edit: it's even visible on their photo, the C6 shows some really nasty bands in the darker colors, how the hell did they give it a 9.5??

[VBB]

Granted, though they did have a different scoring system when the C6 came out. Can't compare them directly.

[j82k]

Ok didn't really pay attention to that... but still the C6 was terrible at gradients...

[ThunderFi]

Thunder, if it only stutters in full-screen, do you mean full-screen exclusive or even windowed full-screen? FSE basically doesn't exist in the newer versions of Windows 10, so setting madVR to windowed FS is probably the best option. Don't know if that will help your situation, though.

Sorry for the confusion. I just meant if the program is windowed vs fullscreen. I wasn't talking about the madVR options. By windowed FS do you mean windowed overlay? That's the only way to have MPC-HC in fullscreen without stuttering, of course I still need to disable D3D11. But I thought that could be a lead to the issue. If the video works without stuttering when MPC-HC is windowed but the problem occurs once it's fullscreen. Any ideas?

EDIT: And when I say fullscreen I'm not talking about FSE.

[huhn]

another reasons could be that your settings are to doable with your GPU in real time.

[ThunderFi]

another reasons could be that your settings are to doable with your GPU in real time.

Wait a minute. Do you mean my settings are too heavy for my GPU or the other way around?

My frame times on average are about 27 ms and the 5s maximum rarely goes to even 40 ms. I have no frame drops or repeats when the stuttering happens.

[VBB]

huhn, he has a 2080, so that's unlikely to be the issue.

[VBB]

Thunder, you tried switching between FS exclusive and FS windowed by unchecking/checking the box in madVR? Windowed overlay is an entirely different option.

[ThunderFi]

Thunder, you tried switching between FS exclusive and FS windowed by unchecking/checking the box in madVR? Windowed overlay is an entirely different option.

Yes, I have also tried this.

Right now I'm experiencing a weird bug (maybe). When I drag and drop MPC-HC into my TV with an HDR movie the TV recognizes the HDR signal. When I put the player into full screen it still says HDR but it reverts to SDR and the picture just looks washed out. The only way this doesn't happen with D3D9 is if I use windowed overlay. With D3D11 it doesn't matter if I have FS exclusive or FS windowed or windowed overlay, the HDR works as it's supposed to. Is the problem caused because I still have D3D11 selected in MPH-HC?

Anyway, I noticed that when I play a movie with VLC the stuttering is a bit different than with MPC-HC + madVR but it's still there. It seems to be more subtle with VLC but still noticeable.

EDIT: Changing D3D11 in MPC-HC to DXVA2 (copy-back) didn't help with the bug or whatever I'm experiencing.

[VBB]

Just to be sure, you are using the latest available MPC-HC/LAV, madVR, and Nvidia drivers? There were some older drivers where it wouldn't trigger HDR unless you selected 10-bit output in madVR, but that has been fixed since. I wish I had a RTX myself, so I could help you better, but I'm waiting for HDMI 2.1 support before I buy another video card.

[QBhd]

Is there an option in your player to open the video on the TV even though the player is on the monitor? Moving video windows around is always problematic. I have PotPlayer on my monitor, but soon as I hit play, it opens the video full screen on my C8 OLED.

QB

[ThunderFi]

Just to be sure, you are using the latest available MPC-HC/LAV, madVR, and Nvidia drivers? There were some older drivers where it wouldn't trigger HDR unless you selected 10-bit output in madVR, but that has been fixed since. I wish I had a RTX myself, so I could help you better, but I'm waiting for HDMI 2.1 support before I buy another video card.

Yes. My MPC-HC is 1.8.7. My madVR is 0.92.17. My NVIDIA driver is 436.02. Actually a new NVIDIA driver was released today, I might try that tomorrow since it's getting late here and I'm soon going to sleep.

The HDR "bug" is only with D3D9, with D3D11 the HDR works fine with every setting but the video stutters.

Is there an option in your player to open the video on the TV even though the player is on the monitor? Moving video windows around is always problematic. I have PotPlayer on my monitor, but soon as I hit play, it opens the video full screen on my C8 OLED.
QB

Yes there is. I just tried it now. It didn't help, the same problem persists.

Anyone, this is a problem that I feel like is futile to solve. This problem gets fixed when I use D3D11 but I can't use it because of the stuttering. It should work, I just need to find a way to fix it. Even if I can't fix it I can still use D3D9 with windowed overlay and everything is fine.

EDIT: I haven't updated any LAV's myself. I thought the latest MPC-HC would have the newest ones or at least ones that are new enough. If I had outdated LAV's would that affect VLC as well then?

[VBB]

With D3D9, you want to use overlay anyway, so you should be good for now.

[ThunderFi]

With D3D9, you want to use overlay anyway, so you should be good for now.

Okay that's good to know. Yeah for sure. It works just as before but I think the HDR "bug" is a new thing, at least I hadn't noticed it before.

Right now this is a waiting and googling game for me. I feel like I've googled "everything" even though that's just impossible. I have tried everything that comes to mind. The only new thing left to do right now is to try the newest drivers that were released today. If that doesn't help then I don't know what to do. I have tried disabling GPU overclocks. Maybe I'll try disabling CPU overclocks as well.

EDIT: The thing that is most weird to me is the fact that there is no problems with my other two monitors, only with the LG C8.

[ThunderFi]

I want to say that I appreciate everyone very much who's come here and tried to help me. It really means a lot to me. Seeing people who know so much treat me, a guy who knows very little about these things, in such a warm and kind way. Thank you very much everyone.

I hope we can get this fixed eventually.

Also, just wanted to say that I'm sorry if I seem cold or maybe even mean (hopefully not). I'm dealing with some difficult stuff IRL and that affects me negatively. Trying to stay positive to tackle this problem though!

[VBB]

I was just reading the update notes for the new Nvidia driver when I came across this:

"Windowed NVIDIA G-SYNC is Disabled During Video Playback
on a Multi-monitor System

Issue

Beginning with Windows 10 April 2018 Update (RS4), NVIDIA G-SYNC is disabled
during active video playback on multi-monitor systems.

Explanation

If hardware accelerated video is playing on one display and an application is launched on
another display in windowed mode with NVIDIA G-SYNC or adaptive-sync enabled, the
video stutters. This is the result of desktop compositing on displays with differing refresh
rates.
To prevent the video stutter in this scenario, the driver disables NVIDIA G-SYNC during
active video playback, but re-enables G-SYNC if the video is paused or closed.

Note: The issue can also occur when displays are set to different
refresh rates, even when G-SYNC is not used. To resolve in this case,
make sure all displays are set to the same refresh rate."

Could this be the problem? Have you tried setting all your monitors to the same refresh rate as your TV? I forgot if you mentioned this before, but does the stuttering occur when you have only the TV connected?

[huhn]

the desktop composition is pretty broken on windows 10 but overlay should workaround that.

the biggest problem currently is with RTX cards and some user can't get them to work properly even with overlay and some other user have no issues at all.

[VBB]

Well, that's why I'm thinking this might be his exact issue, because he does use two other monitors with different refresh rates along with the C8, if I remember correctly. Would explain why overlay works for him, but anything else doesn't.

[ThunderFi]

I was just reading the update notes for the new Nvidia driver when I came across this:

"Windowed NVIDIA G-SYNC is Disabled During Video Playback
on a Multi-monitor System

Issue

Beginning with Windows 10 April 2018 Update (RS4), NVIDIA G-SYNC is disabled
during active video playback on multi-monitor systems.

Explanation

If hardware accelerated video is playing on one display and an application is launched on
another display in windowed mode with NVIDIA G-SYNC or adaptive-sync enabled, the
video stutters. This is the result of desktop compositing on displays with differing refresh
rates.
To prevent the video stutter in this scenario, the driver disables NVIDIA G-SYNC during
active video playback, but re-enables G-SYNC if the video is paused or closed.

Note: The issue can also occur when displays are set to different
refresh rates, even when G-SYNC is not used. To resolve in this case,
make sure all displays are set to the same refresh rate."

Could this be the problem? Have you tried setting all your monitors to the same refresh rate as your TV? I forgot if you mentioned this before, but does the stuttering occur when you have only the TV connected?

I had not tried to set all of my displays to the same refresh rate. I just tried it, I set all of them to 60 Hz. Didn't set them to 23 Hz because my other two displays don't have 23 Hz by default. Like I mentioned previously at some point, the higher my TV's refresh rate is the less noticeable the stuttering is. So at 60 Hz the stuttering turns into like a micro stutter that makes the playback seem "smooth" but it really isn't, if that makes sense. If I put my TV back into 23 Hz the stuttering is much more noticeable.

I had also tried to only have my TV connected but that didn't help. I tried it again just to be sure. I disabled my other two monitors and restarted my PC. Having only my TV active didn't help unfortunately. I tried it with 23 Hz and with 60 Hz and what I said above was the same when only the TV was connected.

Well, that's why I'm thinking this might be his exact issue, because he does use two other monitors with different refresh rates along with the C8, if I remember correctly. Would explain why overlay works for him, but anything else doesn't.

I wish it was this because then we would know what's causing the issue, but it would seem that this is not the case :(

EDIT 1: Someone posted their madVR GPU flushing settings on reddit to me and those seem to work even with D3D11. If I change my windowed and exclusive mode settings to "don't flush" and only 1 frame presented in advance there's no stutter. I did this to both windowed and exclusive mode. With this I can use windowed FS without problems, also FSE works as well, haven't tried windowed overlay yet. Though this is still a fix just for using MPC-HC + madVR. VLC for example still stutters. Can we draw some conclusions from this? Do other media players flush the GPU in a way that causes it to stutter? How can the default settings be wrong for such an "advanced" GPU?

EDIT 2: Those settings cause a lot of presentation glitches on my main monitor. I would love to get a working video playback on all of my screens so even this is a temporary fix. I think using D3D9 with windowed overlay is a better temporary fix.

[ThunderFi]

One more thing I've noticed:

SDR movies:
- VLC = no stutter
- MPC-HC + madVR = stutter

HDR movies:
- VLC = stutter (HDR doesn't even work with my VLC apparently)
- MPC-HC + madVR = stutter

EDIT: And these apply when using my TV.

I don't know if this helps but I thought to post some extra info if someone might think of something. These results apply with D3D11. Again, D3D9 with windowed overlay work well in MPC-HC + madVR, doesn't matter if the movie is SDR or HDR.

I also tried resetting MPC-HC to default settings and also installed madVR again, neither of these helped.

[chros]

Have you seen this post (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/3088376-lg-oled-2019-pq-curve-upload-free-template-devicecontrol-interface.html#post58608526) by Ted? It's about tonemapping on C9, but it's supposed to be the same on 8 series as well.

The interesting parts are:
- deafult peak nits is: 700
- the rolloff value of the lowest curve is 70%
-- that means 490 nits! where the rolloff starts (probably that's why we saw clipping previously)

Now, the question is why madvr needs to be set 760 nits to trigger the lowest curve and not 1000 or 990?

@quietvoid, can you upload the sm test (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/3053602-madvr-envy-anticipation-thread-48.html#post58598174) file somewhere? Thanks

[quietvoid]

madVR test build v91 seems to fix the dynamic tonemapping for my LG C8.
Here's a comparison between v86 static 760 nits vs. v91 with dynamic tonemapping: https://slowpics.org/comparison/e38b56e5-7212-464c-8e45-27dd8f98d701

[Warner306]

That is a dramatic difference. Are you referring to madVR's dynamic tone mapping in output video in HDR format with the display set to do static tone mapping?

[iSeries]

madVR test build v91 seems to fix the dynamic tonemapping for my LG C8.
Here's a comparison between v86 static 760 nits vs. v91 with dynamic tonemapping: https://slowpics.org/comparison/e38b56e5-7212-464c-8e45-27dd8f98d701

Yes difference is huge there. Could you link to a screenshot of your madVR tonemapping options screen with the settings used to achieve this please?

[quietvoid]

That is a dramatic difference. Are you referring to madVR's dynamic tone mapping in output video in HDR format with the display set to do static tone mapping?
Yes this is with output as HDR, the TV has LG's DTM enabled.
There's little difference for highlights with LG DTM ON, however low nits scenes are brighter than they should be.

Yes difference is huge there. Could you link to a screenshot of your madVR tonemapping options screen with the settings used to achieve this please?
These are my settings
https://i.ibb.co/5Tf69yc/madvr.png (https://ibb.co/5Tf69yc)

[Warner306]

Does it work as well with LG's dynamic tone mapping disabled?

If it does work well with static tone mapping, would it be possible for you to make 2-3 screenshot comparisons of madVR's dynamic tone mapping vs. LG's static tone mapping and post a link here? The horses in the snow is already one excellent comparison.

I'd like to add those photos to my madVR guide as I haven't collected any screenshots for HDR passthrough, only HDR to SDR.

[chros]

If it does work well with static tone mapping
I think I found another bug with passthrough (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-215.html#post58647476), can someone confirm this if you have a C8/E8 or B9/C9/E9 by looking at the 2nd last point of 20 point WB value in LG menu?

[quietvoid]

Does it work as well with LG's dynamic tone mapping disabled?

If it does work well with static tone mapping, would it be possible for you to make 2-3 screenshot comparisons of madVR's dynamic tone mapping vs. LG's static tone mapping and post a link here? The horses in the snow is already one excellent comparison.

I'd like to add those photos to my madVR guide as I haven't collected any screenshots for HDR passthrough, only HDR to SDR.

I've made this comparison for you, hopefully it is useful.
https://slowpics.org/comparison/1b0b83e2-8a5e-43cf-8de8-4c6ab4840c98

To explain what I see:
madVR DTM without LG DTM looks better than passthrough without LG DTM.

When it comes to enabling LG DTM, passthrough is going to look similar compared to madVR + LG DTM OFF.

And madVR + LG DTM ON looks slightly more detailed, but then you get inconsistent brightness changes for everything.

So if you don't mind the brightness fuckery LG does with the DTM, you should be fine with passthrough.
Otherwise, madVR without LG DTM is better.

For myself I will be changing to madVR dynamic tonemapping alone, disabling LG's DTM. :)

I think I found another bug with passthrough (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector-215.html#post58647476), can someone confirm this if you have a C8/E8 or B9/C9/E9 by looking at the 2nd last point of 20 point WB value in LG menu? With the Spears & Munsil disc (10,000 nits), passthrough ends up setting the WB point to 713. I'll need to try other titles to see.

[chros]

With the Spears & Munsil disc (10,000 nits), passthrough ends up setting the WB point to 713. I'll need to try other titles to see.
That sm clip is not a good test for that because both master luminance and maxcll are 10000.
The mockingjay clip is a good one, maxcll is around 680 but master luminance is 1000, so the middle tone curve "should be" used for now.

And I switched to madvr dtm + LG dtm :) (I set up the Cinema Home preset to be the same as Cinema apart from LG DTM, so you can quickly switch between them. I think Color temperature should be set to W50 in Cinema Home to get Warm2 in Cinema).

[Warner306]

I've made this comparison for you, hopefully it is useful.
https://slowpics.org/comparison/1b0b83e2-8a5e-43cf-8de8-4c6ab4840c98


Thanks for the images. Appreciate it.

Can you also take two more screenshots: One with madVR's DTM enabled and one with LG's static tone mapping alone with the horses in the snow scene? I really like that example.

[quietvoid]

Can you also take two more screenshots: One with madVR's DTM enabled and one with LG's static tone mapping alone with the horses in the snow scene? I really like that example.
Here you go:
Passthrough vs. madVR.
https://i.ibb.co/bz1v7CW/passthrough.png (https://ibb.co/bz1v7CW) https://i.ibb.co/dcV25hJ/madvr.png (https://ibb.co/dcV25hJ)

Both have LG's dynamic tonemapping disabled.
Keep in mind that sample is very bright, mastered at 10,000 nits.
And the display is probably not outputting over 300 nits because it is almost full field.
It does not represent most of the available content out there, for which there might be much less difference.

And these are the settings, for test build v91:
https://i.ibb.co/ssYhsmy/settings.png (https://ibb.co/ssYhsmy)

[Warner306]

Thanks.

[shae]

The previous thread is not enough? :)

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176215

[ThunderFi]

Hey! I'm the OP of this thread.

I had given up on getting my setup working perfectly after a lot of failures upon failures, that's why I haven't been here in a while. I haven't yet tried reinstalling Windows (which is the only thing I have left to do). Right now I'm using NVIDIA CP default 23 Hz mode when watching movies + 8 bit RGB full. It's far from perfect but it's okay.

I'm kind of worried of trying to create custom resolutions with CRU again. If I do something wrong can it lead to having to reinstall Windows again?

[oldpainlesskodi]

Hey, flip the to red side, cus they are so much better....not. I think it's a trade off at this stage. AMD (pretty much perfect 23p, and you can control the colour temp (64k white point), Nivida = more stable with HDR (no control over white point cus there is no edid override.etc).

Everyone gets choose - green team, or red team....facepalm moment right there.

[huhn]

what has this to do with the white point the last thing you want from the GPU driver is changing the white point of your processed and dithered image.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Wow, I expected you to get it. With NV i have no control, Amd I do ( I can override the edid...all film content is 64k...unless I'm about to get hit with a frying pan upside the head (oldpainess ducks just in case) :-)

Just for fun....try setting AMD Temperature control Temperature control from Auto to Manual.

[huhn]

the spec for bt709 has a white point of D65 that's the white point you get if you don't touch the white point.

and that's again irrelevant if your screen is not calibrated because it will have a white point of "what ever" usually in the d70-d80 range.

you can do the same bad adjustment in nvidia but not like amd with only one option you have all 3 RGB channels to adjust the white point and it should be avoided for the same reason.

if your screen is calibrated to D65 this option may do something but why you would do it that way is beyond me it will lower your
CR.

[nevcairiel]

As a general rule, stay away from any color adjustment in the graphics cards control panel. Its generally a low quality algorithm. If you really need to change something, do it with madVR.
Not sure what "EDID Override" has to do with that anyway. And with tools like CRU you can make any EDID for any graphics card.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Yeah, I think you are right - been digging deeper.

[chros]

Nivida ... there is no edid override.etc).
There is (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1902402#post1902402) ...

[oldpainlesskodi]

Sorry, I meant in terms of temperature, well, not that I can remember...