x262: 2019 updates?

[Sparktank]

Preface:
Adding a poll, not site-wide, but just anyone who happens to stumble upon the MPEG2 section in this day and age.

Main Entry:
I'm just curious:

Has anyone ever done any updates on their own, or even mirrored updates, for x262?

I don't always make DVD backups from DVD, but when I do...
I like to keep my options open?

I currently use HCenc with AVS2DVD, a lot.
And got curious with x262, but would like to know if it got any recent updates lately since the last post in the main thread.

I just got a BD-RW drive, but I'd still like to explore MPEG2 options for SD content on BD discs. Eventually... when discs go a little more down in price.
This would be great for TV series on BD without having them on multiple DVD's.

tl;dr:
Anything more recent for x262? (besides the main thread posts with external links)

EDIT: I voted for everything.
Multiple choice, no closing date, public stats, etc.

[Gser]

I just got a BD-RW drive, but I'd still like to explore MPEG2 options for SD content on BD discs. Eventually... when discs go a little more down in price.
Physical media is going the way of the dodo bird. A much better way would be to copy or compress your media onto a NAS i.e. a bunch of hard drives attached to your network from which you then view the files on your choice of screen. And using mpeg-2 to compress anything these says is a laughable concept. x262 seemed more like a hobbyist project that now seems to have been abandoned since Mar 16, 2015.

[Video Dude]

MPEG-2 is still my choice when encoding interlaced SD video when I want the interlaced preserved.

[Gser]

MPEG-2 is still my choice when encoding interlaced SD video when I want the interlaced preserved.

h.264 supports both PAFF and MBAFF.

[manolito]

I think with DVDs it is pretty much the same as with Audio CDs:

They have been pronounced dead many times, but still they exist and will continue to exist for a long time to come.

Of course movie sales on physical media are declining due to streaming, but for the physical media which are sold today DVDs are far ahead of BluRay. And BluRay is not closing the gap now, and I believe it never will.

The DVD format has a lot of advantages over the "modern" formats. It is the most compatible format by far, a DVD structure (maybe in an ISO file) will play everywhere. An AVC or HEVC video in an MKV or MP4 container may or may not play on a current TV (depending on the philosophy of the manufacturer). How often have I sent an MKV or MP4 to a friend who complained that the player will not honor the chapter points? Many many times. This just does not happen with a DVD.

And finally it is easy for a DVD to author it with nice looking menus using free tools. For BluRays you need to spend big bucks to get menus (with the possible exception of MultiAVCHD, but this is not BluRay compliant). Not to speak about the huge learning curve until you master creating BluRay menus.

So please stop bashing the MPEG2 video format and DVDs. Just don't use it if you think that this format has no right to exist in 2019...


Cheers
manolito

[Sharc]

Just to mention that mpeg-2 is blu-ray compliant and has been used for commercial Blu-ray discs. Quality is not really a big issue, given the bitrates on 25 or 50GB media.

[Groucho2004]

How often have I sent an MKV or MP4 to a friend who complained that the player will not honor the chapter points? Many many times.Maybe your friends have a similar affinity for ancient hardware as you? :D

And finally it is easy for a DVD to author it with nice looking menus using free tools. For BluRays you need to spend big bucks to get menus (with the possible exception of MultiAVCHD, but this is not BluRay compliant). Not to speak about the huge learning curve until you master creating BluRay menus.Hm, I authored many BluRays with MultiAVCHD, all of them strictly compliant with BD standards. I also find it very easy to learn and use including menu creation.

[qyot27]

I actually did have to use MPEG-2 a couple months ago when re-authoring a DVD from PAL->NTSC. Of course, I also did a separate HEVC Main10 encode for desktop playback, but I still used HCenc to prepare it for AVStoDVD. Aside from that, I hadn't had a need to do so in several years. Most of my need for using MPEG-2 and authoring DVDs in the past was related to my computer at the time being too old to handle H.264 in nearly any configuration; I bought a mini-PC in October 2015 that was more than capable of playing back 1080p H.264, even 10-bit, and my need to transcode stuff so I could watch it on my TV pretty much evaporated.

Blank BD-Rs are fairly inexpensive, though. At least if you want just 25GB and nothing special; of course, you still have to pay a premium for M-Discs, but run-of-the-mill ones? You can get a 50pk spindle of single layer BD-Rs for ~$20. I use them for data archives, but with the single-file playback capabilities of some Blu-ray players, you might be able to get away with it from a disc instead of a flash drive.

I played around with x262 a couple times, and it was promising, but I never moved to using it in any grand fashion.

[Video Dude]

MPEG-2 is definitely still relevant in 2019. My cable company uses MPEG-2 for SD channels and over the air antenna broadcasts in the US are MPEG-2, both SD and HD.

[MatLz]

I don't use mpeg2 anymore but its far more alive than divx/xvid.

[manolito]

Maybe your friends have a similar affinity for ancient hardware as you? :D

My brother owns a very recent TechniSat DVB-S2 receiver and an even newer LG LCD TV. Both have built-in video players, and both are unable to skip to the next chapter point when using AVC/AAC videos in an MKV container. Needless to say that these chapter points were created using current versions of MKVToolNix, and every software player I use as well as my old Xtreamer Sidewinder streaming box have no problems recognizing these chapter points.

[Gser]

MPEG-2 is definitely still relevant in 2019. My cable company uses MPEG-2 for SD channels and over the air antenna broadcasts in the US are MPEG-2, both SD and HD.

No it isn't. Just because some tv channels have to live in the year 1997 doesn't mean the rest of have to as well.

[Groucho2004]

Maybe your friends have a similar affinity for ancient hardware as you? :D

My brother owns a very recent TechniSat DVB-S2 receiver and an even newer LG LCD TV. Both have built-in video players, and both are unable to skip to the next chapter point when using AVC/AAC videos in an MKV container.
My comment was supposed to be a joke. Well, mostly.

I am aware of the shortcomings of "media players" built into TVs, I had the very same problem with my relatively modern Panasonic LCD. So, I just got a dedicated streaming device for a few bucks and the problem was solved.

[Emulgator]

Would love to see x262 polished, as I am still asked to make DVDs.
I can help with binaries r2421, r2433, r2443, r2508, r2615, r2633.

[manolito]

How does X262 compare qualitywise to the current FFmpeg MPEG2 encoder?

[Sparktank]

I admit it is pretty outdated codec to use with so many options.
I'm still fascinated by it, even today.

A bunch of my mom's stuff can be archived to SD x264, but I haven't found a totally reliable method of delivery for her.
I got her a ROKU Ultra and a portable external, but when that external drops (especially being a SeaGate), I'm to square one.

I like to try keep backups of her stuff on DVD-9s for extra insurance.
I'd rather she not keep using the original discs as she can get lazy and leave the discs lying around when she goes to change them.
Dexter is incomplete from this habit.


Would love to see x262 polished, as I am still asked to make DVDs.
I can help with binaries r2421, r2433, r2443, r2508, r2615, r2633.

I would love to try out latest builds.

Do you host on github? Something where we can see the commits?

[Groucho2004]

I would love to try out latest builds.I think this (http://git.videolan.org/?p=x262.git;a=shortlog) is the most up to date repo (which I think is the same as this (https://github.com/kierank/x262) repo). I'll post a build later today.

[Sparktank]

:thanks: Going to bookmark the videolan and follow the github.

[FranceBB]

MPEG-2 is definitely still relevant in 2019. My cable company uses MPEG-2 for SD channels and over the air antenna broadcasts in the US are MPEG-2, both SD and HD.

In Europe is pretty much the same. I work in broadcast, which is why I still encode masterfiles in MPEG-2 25i TFF on a daily basis.

Would love to see x262 polished, as I am still asked to make DVDs.

So am I.

[Groucho2004]

:thanks: Going to bookmark the videolan and follow the github.
Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b9l6orkir020bj/x262_r2633.7z?dl=1) are the r2633 builds (32 & 64 bit). Input is Avisynth or stdin.

Standard disclaimer:
I have not tested these at all and take no responsibility if your computer blows up or you grow excessive nose hair using these binaries.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I think it would be useful to have x262 encoding working with VirtualDub2, especially as we can now save directly to the .mkv container...

[sneaker_ger]

Who do you think would want or need to encode MPEG-2 to MKV?

[manolito]

Thanks Groucho for the binaries.

I took a quick look at the help, leaves me a little confused. The help always refers to x264, is this just sloppiness? And then I do not see the option to output an m2v elementary stream, are the devs serious about this? Dunno, looks I will stick with HCenc and FFmpeg for my MPEG2 encoding needs...

[Groucho2004]

I took a quick look at the help, leaves me a little confused. The help always refers to x264, is this just sloppiness? And then I do not see the option to output an m2v elementary stream, are the devs serious about this? Dunno, looks I will stick with HCenc and FFmpeg for my MPEG2 encoding needs...
This seems to produce a perfectly fine mpeg2 elementary stream:
x262_32 test.avs --mpeg2 --output test.m2v

If you need the full help:
x262_32 --fullhelp > x262.txt

[SeeMoreDigital]

Who do you think would want or need to encode MPEG-2 to MKV?It's not necessarily about the container. But having a container the correctly supports b-frames is useful.

And once the elementary MPEG-2 has been extracted it can be muxed into other containers...

[FranceBB]

It's not necessarily about the container. But having a container the correctly supports b-frames is useful.

And once the elementary MPEG-2 has been extracted it can be muxed into other containers...

Yep. In my case, I mux MPEG-2 files with BBC BMX in mxf. I was actually using ffmpeg to mux audio and video before, but I found out that some softwares are just too "pretentious" in terms of specifications and refuse MPEG-2 files muxed with ffmpeg but accept them if I mux them with BBC BMX (I'm looking at you AVID!).

By the way, thanks for the updated binaries, Groucho! :)

I think it would be useful to have x262 encoding working with VirtualDub2, especially as we can now save directly to the .mkv container...

+1
Although I've automatized everything via bat, it would be useful to have it available on VirtualDub as well. For the records, by "VirtualDub" I mean VirtualDub2 Filtermod of course. :)

[Sparktank]

Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3b9l6orkir020bj/x262_r2633.7z?dl=1) are the r2633 builds (32 & 64 bit). Input is Avisynth or stdin.

Standard disclaimer:
I have not tested these at all and take no responsibility if your computer blows up or you grow excessive nose hair using these binaries.

Thanks for this!
Already trimming them so they can regrow in the process.

[Blue_MiSfit]

MPEG-2 is still absolutely mainstream, widely deployed, and utterly critical in professional workflows, mostly in broadcast. Just a few examples:

- OTA broadcast via ATSC is still MPEG-2.
- Many cable systems still use MPEG-2 for linear channels due to legacy settop boxes (often live transcoded from the "real" AVC used by the rest of the system). Lots of cable VOD is still MPEG-2 as well.
- Many legacy HD and SD linear channels are originated on satellite via MPEG-2
- DVDs are still very much a thing.

- Most linear TV channels play MPEG-2 files out of their video servers. IMX is common for SD, and XDCAM HD422 is common for HD.

That last one I know a ton about as I worked on the ingest / workflow side of broadcast for many years. Most channels have huge libraries of content in their "house format" which tends to be MPEG-2 based for simplicity and consistency with files ingested 10+ years ago. You change as little as possible when taking channels to air. Storage is definitely expensive, but the businesses tend to prefer spending the money on the old file formats since it mitigates risk elsewhere.

Thankfully nobody doing OTT streaming uses MPEG-2, because as we all know it's utterly outclassed by 2+ compression format generations and 20+years of development. Things move slow :)

[filler56789]

I took a quick look at the help, leaves me a little confused. The help always refers to x264, is this just sloppiness?

Do you still have any doubts? :D
I would like to know why x262 isn't a pure MPEG-2 encoder yet...
not sure whether it's impossible to get rid of the H.264 encoder parts, or whether the developer was just too lazy :p

Anyway, I only knew that x262 suckED in the beginning... but yesterday and today I gave a second chance to the binary.
Well, it's much better now, I have to say. It does not limit the GOP length, accepts the linear quantization scale and custom matrices as well, and is fast.

*THUMBS UP*

[outhud]

Hi Sparktank, I needed to encode for DVD recently, and used HCenc also.

Interested to try x262, are there any comparisons available comparing x262 with HCenc? Or have you found any result from your own testing?

[Sparktank]

I'll be doing some testing within the next couple weeks. I just need cannibalize my computers. The old one has the really good drive that does UHD-BD's.

From some limited testing yesterday, it's quite decent but needs a lot of tweaking.


Anyway, I only knew that x262 suckED in the beginning... but yesterday and today I gave a second chance to the binary.
Well, it's much better now, I have to say. It does not limit the GOP length, accepts the linear quantization scale and custom matrices as well, and is fast.

*THUMBS UP*

Have any scripts to share? Some feedback on the source types (grain,noise,flat,animation,etc)?

[filler56789]

Have any scripts to share? Some feedback on the source types (grain,noise,flat,animation,etc)?

Not yet. I ran just a couple of test encodes in a VERY unscientific way :o ...
but the visual quality AND the small filesize were similar to the results produced by the (already-old) Mainconcept Reference MPEG-2 Encoder.

[qyot27]

Do you still have any doubts? :D
I would like to know why x262 isn't a pure MPEG-2 encoder yet...
not sure whether it's impossible to get rid of the H.264 encoder parts, or whether the developer was just too lazy :p
x265 was basically forked and refactored away from the reference HEVC implementation, IIRC. x264 might have been developed similarly in the early stages, but I don't know that for sure. x262 was basically a set of changes to x264's already-mature codebase which allowed it to encode MPEG-2.

So to use an analogy, x264 and x265 are like cousins. x262 is like x264 grew a second head.

[benwaggoner]

I haven't made MPEG-2 content for delivery in a while, but it still gets used for older sources and some pre-distribution workflows.

[TheSpectre]

The last time I used MPEG-2 was to convert a few DVD9 films to DVD5

[FranceBB]

Since you're resurrecting the topic, speaking of MPEG-2, will the FFMpeg encoder ever be properly multi-thread?
It's painfully slower than it could be right now on my 28c/56th... Sure, I can run multiple encodes at a time but still...

[Losko]

Since patents on mpeg2 have now expired (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MPEG-2-Last-Patents-Expire) I expected a renewed interest in this free codec.
Curiously, despite the age, still mpeg2 video encoding offers many free alternatives to pick: x262, HCenc, ffmpeg and, if you have a recent intel cpu, qsv encoding (through ffmpeg as well). And all them can run cross platform (HCenc runs smoothly under linux using wine).
It would be great to see a great, comprehensive comparison (speed-wise, quality-wise, feature-wise) among them all.