Great quality debanding, faster perfomance than MadVR [Archive]

Dreamject

23rd January 2019, 07:25

Deband (originally in mpv in glsl syntax) works much faster than MadVR's debanding and can be used in any player (only in EVR-CP render at least now)

How it works
https://s17.directupload.net/images/190302/zoigpo9y.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190302/ns6xvutt.jpg)
Download deband shaders https://vk.com/doc275347426_493873949

Hlsl deband/MadVR (default/low-dxva-billinear settings except high deband)
https://s15.directupload.net/images/190302/ghsrchgf.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190302/fd8ym5lu.png) https://s17.directupload.net/images/190302/hhjmnk3b.png (https://s17.directupload.net/images/190302/xlzu8ftf.png)

By the way, I can not get what noise gives. In descriptions it says

#define Grain 48.0 //[0.0:4096.0] //-Add some extra noise to the image. This significantly helps cover up remaining quantization artifacts. Higher numbers add more noise. (Default 48)

But I do not see any 'significant' differences with/without default random noise. It slightly improves GPU load, so I do not use it. Can you give examples, when this noise is useful?

Sparktank

23rd January 2019, 16:21

If you're not watching a movie with HDR, you can use FFDShow to call f3kdb in the avisynth section of ffdshow, or some other deband filter.

Charky

23rd January 2019, 17:22

It's not banding, it's macroblocks from a very, very heavy compression.

Would be interesting to check the same picture with RCA activated in madvr.

Dreamject

23rd January 2019, 18:02

If you're not watching a movie with HDR, you can use FFDShow to call f3kdb in the avisynth section of ffdshow, or some other deband filter.

I tried but did not have success with it at least not in PotPlayer. Also I use SVP which uses CPU, I think deband avisynth filter should work on CPU too.

Asmodian

23rd January 2019, 23:36

I searched deband filter as alternative for MadVR, coz it's quite glitchy

I am curious in what way madVR is glitchy? Debanding has always been stable for me and RCA works well on this kind of source (as mentioned already, this is not an example of banding).

Also what settings did you use for madVR? You seem to have left out all the details on how you did the comparison and a link to your source.

Sparktank

27th January 2019, 16:55

PotPlayer

I have no experience with this player.
I use MPC-HC, primarily. VLC as a backup.

With FFDShow, don't forget to check "Add FFDShow Video Source" in the avisynth section.

I know SVP can use the GPU, if it's detectable.
I use SVP on my graphics card all the time and only switch to CPU for testing (if graphics card not working well).

Dreamject

7th February 2019, 18:27

It's not banding, it's macroblocks from a very, very heavy compression.

Anyway it works and looks much more better.

Another comparison
https://i.stack.imgur.com/FYzZ3.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/D0k5b.png

Asmodian

7th February 2019, 20:45

Dreamject

7th February 2019, 23:24

Are those the same image? Any information at all about the settings used?

You are only posting examples without any detail, how well does reshade's debanding persevere detail compared to madVR?

How about compared to madVR's remove compression artifacts?

I do not discuss compression artifact removal, except banding - this is compression artifact too, but in my opinion all these huge superscale algos what is 'proud' of MadVR not so requied in 2k19. May be it was needed when you see 240p-like videos on 720-1080p display, but it was so long... I will write more and give more comparison (in this post), but, beelive, it's much more better than MadVR (in debanding) and has better perfomance.

Bad side? They exist. Reshade is not native solution, but it can be (if somebody port shader to usual hlsl), it's not friendly with SVP (60fps) - player info sas it has less frames (not dropped frames), it has little frames tremor and also some not critical problem when playing serials - you need to stop, not pause, playing and start to play again between two files - switching do not works okay.

But anyway it is better than madvr 'highest' deband settings.

I will attach images later :)

Asmodian

7th February 2019, 23:41

I don't agree, NGU for 1080p @ 4K is very nice. I suppose good chroma upscaling for 4K is not that important but I do notice an improvement using NGU AA v.s Jinc or bicubic.

Most of my content does not have bad banding (Blu-ray) but madVR highest already blurs too much for me. Is this less blurry or the same while removing more banding or is it simply stronger?

Dreamject

7th February 2019, 23:50

*I mean, reshade's deband much better not only because it 'better quality', I can accept a little worse quality of MadVR, but also MadVR has much more worse perfomance on high settings, which is visible if I use highest settings

There is comparison, madvr left and reshade right, you need zoom to watch it better. In the bottom you can see size of MadVR and Reshade picture, coz reshade's gradients are smoother, picture has a little bigger size and can not compress so good.
-_- potplayer could not copy well, need to reupload
https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/56cpwonf.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/p5ozlpj3.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/vpnfv5s4.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/z8gx27e3.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/dtzb4l5k.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/h2b6nfk6.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/y6lwz7em.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/7bwhhz7m.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/cfrnyzja.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/ri9uosex.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/m4nxlgz9.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/ikdnpqrl.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/uhzfj3k2.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/o2a3pjny.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/zy6xv4bg.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190208/tpse34cv.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/py7n3jsm.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/7w9vzce2.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/mseb2a5l.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/ahic8vw9.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/vhgfkpyr.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/aqe2t8j5.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/2w6og5gv.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/f8rclmuw.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/scyyl987.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/o5jlmwxr.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/z7r5564b.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/quwpoum3.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/nicom7dw.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/eyhoj8un.png)

Dreamject

7th February 2019, 23:58

Reshade settings, it's not only 'low middle highest'
https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/sesunwwz.png

Also, it could not replace madvr, but can be added as hlsl pixel shader, but now people do not think a lot about (de)banding, developers who can port do not see reason.

Even MadVR is well famous mostly for 'geeks' and people do not like a lot of settings. 'MadVR is best quality render, it uses best debanding, it request a lot of resources'... But actually at least debanding does not need so much as MadVR+only debanding need.

PS
If you need less strength, with 'reshade'-like deband you could reduce therehold and sensivity for yourself, not just touching low-middle-high setting

Reshade vs default without madvr

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/ptutp4ay.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/e5bcukzp.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/toim29pd.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/l4ioipv8.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/g9tek5px.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/c3knj4ia.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/g74ynngx.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/phbpo236.png)

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/s3mco2gy.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/72z3pnjj.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/fplqwadu.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190207/bmkmlknh.png)

Dreamject

8th February 2019, 00:30

>Most of my content does not have bad banding (Blu-ray)

I can see banding even on bluray at least I know some of them. Banding is not 'main' reason of low bitrate, I think it is compression artifact and reques postprocessing even on bluray, but on lower settings. For ~bdrip quality and not very smart computer reshade-like shader is much more better because of perfomance and strength, for smart pc+bdremux it's still can be better because of more precise setting

XMonarchY

8th February 2019, 22:05

Don't forget that ReShade Deband gets rid of a lot of detail, but madVR tries to preserve the detail and and get rid of blocks and banding in the last detail-invasive way.

Dreamject

9th February 2019, 13:55

Don't forget that ReShade Deband gets rid of a lot of detail, but madVR tries to preserve the detail and and get rid of blocks and banding in the last detail-invasive way.
I do not know what madVR does, but imho it's just therehold levels. Higher eats more details, lower eats less.

Warner306

9th February 2019, 13:56

Do you have the movie Rush on Blu-ray? The opening credits have terrible 8-bit banding. I used it as a comparison in this thread:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1840876#post1840876

I thought madVR did a fine job here.

Dreamject

9th February 2019, 14:15

Don't forget that ReShade Deband gets rid of a lot of detail, but madVR tries to preserve the detail and and get rid of blocks and banding in the last detail-invasive way.

Do you have the movie Rush on Blu-ray? The opening credits have terrible 8-bit banding. I used it as a comparison in this thread:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1840876#post1840876

I thought madVR did a fine job here.

Do not have and now internet is quite slow. By the way I can publish reshade+instruction+modified deband presets)

Bdrip
Sourcehttps://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/eisnc7n3.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/r7wq4vni.png)
MadVR highest (wtf with colors)https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/s42e4nqa.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/pnamn2k5.png)
reshade
5,20https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/emz2rrsl.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/a6x2ykks.png)

5,64https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/monj5uod.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/o8u7shdw.png)

10,20https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/yckmf2yj.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/9j3tsdir.png)

10,64https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/fnv5mrbd.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/lj9xkozz.png)

15,20https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/hfuprmlx.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/t5apgg6n.png)

15,64https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/d35lpysg.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/dtu9xvcf.png)

first number is therehold, second is radius

Stereodude

9th February 2019, 18:22

If you're not watching a movie with HDR, you can use FFDShow to call f3kdb in the avisynth section of ffdshow, or some other deband filter.
If I'm remembering correctly madVR's debanding algorithm is based on f3kdb. Madshi even offered suggestions on how to improve it too but no one has integrated them into it.

Dreamject

9th February 2019, 19:16

If I'm remembering correctly madVR's debanding algorithm is based on f3kdb. Madshi even offered suggestions on how to improve it too but no one has integrated them into it.

As I remember, but maybe it is not true, Mad'vr debanding based on mpv's debanding too. Also (I know it's true), reshade's deband is copied from mpv.

huhn

9th February 2019, 19:29

do you even have a clue how old the deband filter in madVR is?

Dreamject

9th February 2019, 19:53

I use madvr only ~1-2 month and I am not fan of it. Imho, reshade works better and more comfortable
https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/sfqlfcou.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/3i57lotx.png)

Taurus

9th February 2019, 21:09

By the way I can publishreshade+instruction+modified deband presets)
Yes, please!
You made me curious....
I'm always open for new ideas. How to inject Reshade in MPC-HC
(or any other directshow software player)?
I won't wade through the internet, searching for solutions.

Dreamject

9th February 2019, 21:42

Yes, please!
You made me curious....
I'm always open for new ideas. How to inject Reshade in MPC-HC
(or any other directshow software player)?
I won't wade through the internet, searching for solutions.

You can inject reshade with ENBInjector or any dll injector

'the easiest' way using my build of potplayer (I'm russian, but changed language to english)
I do not know angelscript so only way I could make is injecticg reshade to libtorrent extension :D

Build https://vk.com/doc519055724_490862677
So, you need this
Open PotPlayer
Drag and drop any .torrent file to potplayer OR press Ctrl+U (open url) and input 'reshade' and 'open' this link
Press stop and start to play video
To open reshade config press ctrl+alt+r

*You have to enable Direct3D11 render to see reshade (but madbr good too, coz it d3d11 render). If you chose for example EVR you see no changes
If you choose opengl render when play video you get crash of player

You can use files for injecting from build, it stores in \extension\lib\ all files except TorrentReader.dll . For X64 players you need reshade64.dll library, but I think can use my configuration and files (I modified stock config for comfortable using)

-_- if you like it, please write there, I hope developers will add deband/reshade functionality in potplayer, but now no one from developers (I wrote to pp's developer, developer for pp's extensions, guys who made deband script, in reshade forum) not interested in this, even mpv's deband

https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/4zilpi4k.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190209/iovvhf8h.png)

Stereodude

12th February 2019, 22:38

As I remember, but maybe it is not true, Mad'vr debanding based on mpv's debanding too. Also (I know it's true), reshade's deband is copied from mpv.
Well, the mpv devs have been stealing madshi's work by reverse engineering madvr and copying his shader code, but I'm pretty sure you have it backward.

See: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1645630#post1645630

Dreamject

13th February 2019, 21:03

it's not the reason why mpv's deband faster and has more options for deband and madvr slower. mpv is open source project, madvr no

username0001

17th February 2019, 15:30

Dreamject

17th February 2019, 17:57

Why are all your comparison images so hilariously bad? Anybody with eyes can see there is a lot more post processing going on with the images on top of debanding but even if we ignore all of that the filter you're recommending is murdering all the detail. It's not hard to remove banding when you're not concerned with preserving detail.
Cause of h264 color compression. Usually I see ~20gb bdrip quality, it's not 'very bad' quality. Usually they look good, until smooth gradients like see, sky, shadows. In this case h264 combines similar color and gives banding, even on blueray quality.

On highest settings as example MadVR cuts of a lot of details, but save and can increase some banding. mpv's on quite high (you can set very-very high thereshold with blur whole images) settings gives perfect gradient but looses more details.

But on middle settings in reshade you get better gradients and more detait than madvr.

pirlouy

17th February 2019, 20:09

Well, the mpv devs have been stealing madshi's work by reverse engineering madvr and copying his shader code
Proofs ?
I remember some people stole shaders and showed how to use them with mpv, just before madshi released NGU. There were third party people (4chan). But do you know for sure mpv devs included these shaders in mpv ?

username0001

20th February 2019, 20:07

Cause of h264 color compression. Usually I see ~20gb bdrip quality, it's not 'very bad' quality. Usually they look good, until smooth gradients like see, sky, shadows. In this case h264 combines similar color and gives banding, even on blueray quality.
What does that even has to do with what I said?
I'm telling you that your comparisons aren't accurate, you're not showing us a true comparison between madVR debanding and whatever you're advertising.
But even if we go by your terrible comparisons MadVR still the clear winner because it reduces most of the visible banding without getting rid of all the details.
You're trying to offer a worse product by telling us it's superior while providing evidence that it isn't.

richardpl

20th February 2019, 22:46

Huh, you have actual proof(s) for such harsh claims?

Dreamject

22nd February 2019, 15:36

Huh, you have actual proof(s) for such harsh claims?
~_~ at least in my case (intelHD4000) with SVP MadVR often overloads GPU, without it, it works and I can compare

You could give 'right' compare without potplayer's build)

1. Download reshade https://reshade.me/#download , setup it download shaders (at least deband)
2. Download any dll injector for example http://enbdev.com/download_injector_generic.htm , tune it and apply to process/launch process with injected
3. Select Direct3d11 render in player
4. Press home button (by default) and tune deband for yourself
^_^

PS: also you could just try mpv, it has same deband shaders, but in native glsl . To use shader you need launch it with mpv.exe --deband . It loads GPU less in same cases than reshade, may be because it's native solution.

Dreamject

22nd February 2019, 16:20

Source/MadVR deband medium/High
https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/hh6luiwi.png (https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/wrna7as6.png) https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/hsb8dzhf.png (https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/zehz5lz2.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190222/595ruclt.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/lrhhnlhh.png)

Reshade's deband default (thereshold 0.004, radius 0.016, iterations 1, random noise 0.006)/0.003,0.0020,1,0.000, 0.005,0.0020,1,0.000/ 0.010,0.0020,1,0.0000
https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/rqyszija.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/ywrislyz.png) https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/it5e49rf.png (https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/eyd38vpb.png) https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/2qgob6py.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/8ruvuq27.png) https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/xpktabms.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190222/ow7ggo5q.png)
MadVR/Reshade/MPV GPU load (reshade and mpv use same shader, mpv should use with default settings more complex shader with random noise, but it still uses less GPU. mpv's shader is native solution, reshade is not)
https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/bozsuvzv.png (https://s17.directupload.net/images/190222/l9h87p9r.png) https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/m4o9kpzs.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/9o6hywon.png) https://s16.directupload.net/images/190222/n2xewg92.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190222/63tqr763.png)

Warner306

22nd February 2019, 18:52

Dreamject

25th February 2019, 14:22

I can see the highest setting of Reshade removes the most banding, but it also takes a lot of detail with it. I think this is true of any debanding filter. Maybe madVR needs a setting above high, but I don't how many people would watch a movie with debanding set that high.

There is no 'highest' settings in reshade, it's just maths. Okay, it's default thereshold ui_max = 0.25; for deband.fx ... It's not usable
https://s15.directupload.net/images/190225/mcrmqw2s.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190225/c393biz2.jpg)

Gravitator

27th February 2019, 14:58

Tried to encode video with this filter in 8bit > 8bit?

Dreamject

28th February 2019, 08:50

Tried to encode video with this filter in 8bit > 8bit?

:D for what? Firstly, there is no native good debanding support (except madvr), espectially mpv's algorithm. Secondly, it should generate same or bigger banding and other artifacts, cause banding is natural h264 color compression artifact

Gravitator

28th February 2019, 20:02

:D for what?
For the sake of science :D The experiment gives a negative result :o

Dreamject

1st March 2019, 15:01

Finally it's ported, but mbah.primbon said it was year ago :D

Dreamject

2nd March 2019, 09:44

Ported shaders example
https://s17.directupload.net/images/190302/zoigpo9y.png (https://s16.directupload.net/images/190302/ns6xvutt.jpg) https://s15.directupload.net/images/190302/u2lvstpv.png (https://s15.directupload.net/images/190302/6e6rvmz6.png)
Download deband shaders https://vk.com/doc275347426_493873949

By the way, I can not get what noise gives. In descriptions it says

#define Grain 48.0 //[0.0:4096.0] //-Add some extra noise to the image. This significantly helps cover up remaining quantization artifacts. Higher numbers add more noise. (Default 48)

But I do not see any 'significant' differences with/without default random noise. It slightly improves GPU load, so I do not use it. Can you give examples, when this noise is useful?

dim

22nd April 2019, 12:26

Wondering why am I always getting a blank screen.
Video is playing normally but I only see black. Audio is playing normal.

ENBInjector V4
mpc-be 1.5.3
ReShade 4.2.1
MadVR v0.92.17

Dreamject

20th June 2019, 21:43

>a blank screen.
Its madvr glitch. I used fullscreen->window->fullscren

damian101

30th March 2022, 09:15