madVR - General discussion thread

[mclingo]

Hi, this thread has been created for general discussion relating to MADVR, your hardware and software setups., nothing is out of bounds here but If you have a technical question about problems you are experiencing with MADVR then please visit the main thread below.


https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

[mclingo]

How are people managing ABL on their LG panels?, i've managed to defeat mine by a combination of this method here and setting my OLED light to 60

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2440714-how-turn-off-asbl-lg-oled-tv.html

[Sunset1982]

I use a setting of 30-35, this results in a brightness of lower than 160 nits and no abl usage.

I also disabled ASBL in the service menu and deactivated pixelshift and logo dimming in the settings (logodimming is only available with 2018 oleds)

Does anyone have some more detailed informations about lg oleds only doing 8 bit with RGB? The panel is native 10bit and i never heard about 8bit usage in RGB mode...?


What settings (madvr, gpu and blacklevel) do you guys use with your madvr machines and you oleds?

[Sunset1982]

Is there a good testfile to test 10bit and/or banding on the oleds?


And I wonder if there is a way to show full 4:4:4 resolution in 24hz mode... PC mode with full 4:4:4 support only works with 60hz output on lg oleds... Any idea?!

[mclingo]

ive no idea where the 8 bit thing came from to be honest, ive tried tests in the past but never really found out, far as i'm aware my panel if 10bit throughout.

My full chain:

AMD DRIVER SETTING: 4:4:4 FULL RGB 8bit
MADVR 0-255 - 10 bit setting
DENON AVR-X2200 - straight passthrough
TV - set to bluray mode, named "HTPC"
BLACK LEVEL "HIGH"
Brightness 52
gamma 2.4 for 3D and HDR, 2.2 for SDR

[mclingo]

is the a one stop shop 100% full proof way of knowing whether you are outputting 10bit or not, there were some gradients I once had a look at but they looked the same regardless of what I did or how a played them, even with dithering disabled.

[blu3wh0]

My B7 does 4K RGB 4:4:4 12 bits 23Hz in PC mode without a problem (nvidia does not support 10 bit on HDMI RGB). You can check this in the options you have available for video, but any chroma test will show you the difference between the normal mode and PC mode. madVR already tells you are in 12 bits if you have nvidia. Otherwise if you have a receiver such as a Denon, you can tell in the video information properties.

My OLED light is set to 29, and with the rest of the calibrations has 120 nits, so ABL is always disabled this way.

[mclingo]

Hi, how are you calculating your nits?

[blu3wh0]

I measure it with an i1display pro, but it's mainly OLED light that determines it.

[mclingo]

what tools are you using to minimise any chance of burn in, i use Dark reader in Chrome, this plugin tries to set all white backgrounds to black, does a decent enough job but get some stuff wrong and has a few bugs. I've tried to install a black theme in windows but its a masiive faff and I dont like messing with windows protected files.

DARK READER

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dark-reader/eimadpbcbfnmbkopoojfekhnkhdbieeh?hl=en

I also hide my taskbar but have an unhide set on my remote and set my desktop to black. The only other thing I use is this great little app:


https://www.thewindowsclub.com/remove-and-restore-show-desktop-button-with-showdesktop-remover


When you hide your taskbar it leaves a little one pixel dot in the right corner, this hides that.

[SamuriHL]

I don't use the HTPC for more than watching video so I don't worry about burn-in as I don't have a static image on there long enough to cause problems. I've got my OLED light set to 40 which is high but I have a lot of ambient light.

[kostik]

The method entering Service menu works on LG C8 Oleds? BTW, is there any other option to make it work with an Android smartphone without IR?

My 65C8 is connected to PC which is my only source. What I do is first of all enable "Hide taskbar" and the second (when not watching movies) is using oled light 10 and enabling screensaver. Didn't have any burn-in issues and I am already at 979 Hours Power On.

Is there any benefit using 'PC Mode' to enable 4:4:4 subsampling ? Does 4:4:4 have any advantage for movies ?

BTW, FW 4.10.05 finally fixed PC Mode wrong 'Color Gamut' when playing HDR and fixed 4:4:4 subsampling . (I am talking about LG OLED XXC8)

[SamuriHL]

So they have! Nice find. Thanks for that info.

[kostik]

So .. I managed to access my C8 service menu . I disabled TPC (ABSL) and there is also something called "HDR Module" which is set to 'Normal'. When I put it on "ON", I noticed the peak "brightness" went up even on "SDR" mode

[mclingo]

ive not seen any advantages on my panel using PC mode, on mine though you lose all processing, I like to use trumotion at level 3 as it does a fantastic job of smoothing out panning shots without any soap opera effect, this is essential to me.

[mclingo]

some are stating that increasing brightness in SDR may cause issues with colour reproduction, i'm probs going to leave it as it is for now.

[SamuriHL]

I messed around with pc mode for a bit last night but ended up turning it off again. I don't have time right now to calibrate it for that mode but I may revisit at some point.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[blu3wh0]

Trumotion look like crap to me in any mode, and I always disable most processing since it always makes things worse. The only two good processing options are Real Motion and dynamic tone mapping. PC mode will only work right for SDR, it always uses REC 709 for HDR (unless you have the fix in the 2018 models). RGB 4:4:4 is important because that's what madVR and the video process in, anything else will require conversion. HDR mode will require taking this hit, but I let my TV process from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2.

I do leave pixel shifting and ASBL enabled since neither effect movies or games, I could see where this could be an issue if you use the TV as a monitor. I have a separate monitor for normal computer functions (everything but movies/games).

FYI, there should be no additional calibrations required going to PC mode, whatever ISF calibrations you set will be exactly the same in PC (although you might need to set them).

[mclingo]

I only use it for one reason. There is an issue sometimes in screen pans, say for instance there is a pan across a bright light again a dark back drop, but i;ve also seen this on windows frames and white posts, what happens is as the screen pans across the lines wobble quite badly, this doesn't happen on LCD as there is motion blur, there is no motion blur on OLED.

i'll post and example movie shortly you can have a look at.

[SamuriHL]

Trumotion is one of the things I killed when I went through my settings last night. I don't miss it at all. It was creating some REALLY nasty artifacts during panning for me. I'd prefer it not do that!

[blu3wh0]

I can take a look at a sample, it might be beneficial sometimes, but for 99% of content it feels completely unnatural. You might try to use PC mode for SDR content during the same panning scene since I think the loss of all processing and decreased latency does smooth things out more correctly. This might be placebo in regards to panning, but mouse movement at 23Hz is much faster in PC mode (I always keep it at 23Hz unless I play games).

[SamuriHL]

FYI, there should be no additional calibrations required going to PC mode, whatever ISF calibrations you set will be exactly the same in PC (although you might need to set them).

Yea, something is very wrong then cause when I enable PC mode on my C8, the colors are off. And that happens even with my UB820 so it's not a HTPC issue. So I'm not sure what's happening there and didn't have time to mess with that as I wanted to get other settings configured right.

madshi suggested the dynamic tone mapping might actually help us with the HDR output of madvr pixel math option *MAYBE*. In theory if the LG dynamic tone mapping sees that madvr already tone mapped the frame it COULD (theoretically mind you) disable its own tone mapping so we may get the best of both worlds, as madshi put it. But this is untested. Something I'll be looking at today cause madvr's tone mapping is freaking phenomenal. Converted to SDR I miss the brightness of HDR mode but the quality is out of this world. So I'll be playing with HDR output mode of the pixel math option in madvr later today to see what it looks like with dynamic tone mapping on and off and compare both settings on my UB820, as well, to kind of get a comparison. That would be awesome if it does disable its own tone mapping in such cases!

[mclingo]

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AgvFafeelEBigP8PGs09pKjlJpH0vQ

ok, play this with motion turned off, watch the neon light "24" as it pans across, watch it a few times and try to remember how it looks. Then play it with motion on a low settings, mine is at 3. You will see positive difference, the definition of the image stays more defined, lines wobble a lot less. For me it was about finding a threshold I could live with, 3 was that threshold, anything else starts to go soap opera like and introduces artefacts on 3D movies.

[mclingo]

i have to say I currently have no issues at all with HDR, most things look fine to me, my main issues have been the oversat of reds in SDR 23hz material but thats now gone for some reason. HDR toggle works and 3D toggle does too, the only workaround i'm having to use is MADVR still isnt refresh rate switching properly coming out of 1080p 3D MVC, every single time I stop a movie I get HDMI loss and have to reboot, MADVR I think is sending something to my GFX card which is crashing its driver or something, cant work it out. I can however get the picture back if I drop to 1080p so ive set a devcon refresh and res change on a button on my remote for when this happens so I can at least reboot cleanly.

Ive ask MADSHI to look at this but he keeps saying its driver related, if it were it would crash in KODI and MPCBE/MPCHC but it doesnt, if I use those for refresh rate switching I have no issues, i wish he's fix this.

[jerryleungwh]

Hi I don't know a lot about the technical things but may I ask what are some suggested settings for the hdr page? I have an 4k OLED that supports and from what I've read, tone mapping then outputting in HDR format should give the best quality, but I'm not sure what parameters I should use for this option

[suanm]

My only hope is the highlights recovery algorithm can improve dramatically soon after.There is nothing else but the highlights recovery algorithm improvements.I think all of madvr are getting better and better

[mclingo]

Hi I don't know a lot about the technical things but may I ask what are some suggested settings for the hdr page? I have an 4k OLED that supports and from what I've read, tone mapping then outputting in HDR format should give the best quality, but I'm not sure what parameters I should use for this option

hi, thats a fair question but would be better asked that on the main forum to get max exposure, I dont know the answer to this as I use the TV's own tone mapping, just havent experimented yet.

i only created this because people were complaining about the amount space OLED config and MADVR was talking up, general HDR questions should be fine.

[pirlouy]

Can you change the title please ?
It looks too much like the madVR thread. From what I understand, it's essentially a discussion about OLED, so "Oled setup" would be enough, but if yo want only madVR users and no mpv users, then "Oled setup with madVR".
Choose what you want but not "madVR - high quality video renderer".

[mclingo]

its meant to, this is for MADVR users with OLED TV's.

ill change it a little

[mariner]

Novice needs help with watching BT2020 content

Greetings.

Using madVR for watching 4K HDR yt content on standard monitor, and playback turns into a slide show. The setting is "Let madshi decide"

System is i7 NUC with HD620 graphics using mpc/LAV.

Appreciate any kind assistance.
Many thanks and best regards,

[mclingo]

Hi, happy to help but this might this will be better asked on the main thread for max exposure, there will llikely be other NUC users on there who have had this issue, this thread is mainly for OLED setup issues.

Main thread is here, if you dont get any joy come back here and we'll see if we can help.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228&page=2403

[mariner]

Thanks mclingo, will do so.

[mclingo]

ive opened up this thread to hardware and anything else so we can keep the tech thread clean.

[mclingo]

Hi, i'm going to have a look at MADVRs tone mapping compared to the TVs onboard, which nits value should I target for my TV do you think, see here.

LG OLED EF9500

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBigP8QPtXoBb1_wP7SwA

[Warner306]

Try 400 nits for PQ output. HDR -> SDR could use any value. It is a relative curve.

[mclingo]

thanks :)


really interested to see what this does on mine being first gen and with ABSL turned off.

[mclingo]

HI, whats a good movie / scene for testing tone mapping and highlights, can anyone recommend anything?

or a decent HDR test pattern.

[Warner306]

Avengers: Infinity War; Mad Max: Fury Road; Batman vs. Superman.

[mclingo]

I have interstellar HDR bluray, any particular scene you can think of in there?

[SamuriHL]

Murder on the Orient Express is another good one if you have it. Any of the scenes in the mountains when Daisy is being interrogated stand out pretty well.

[mclingo]

lovely, i'll have a look then.

[iSeries]

I don't think MadVR is able to prevent the TV from tonemapping - or at least it defintely doesn't in my C7. So if you tonemap with MadVR and output as HDR, the TV is still going to tonemap, which is of course unfortunate.

[mclingo]

ah right, might explain why it doesnt look any different at all to my eyes, I thought someone had said that wasnt true, no point using then I guess, cheers anyway.

[SamuriHL]

Yea I was trying to figure out if my C8 was disabling tone mapping or not if madvr was doing it and it doesn't appear to be the case. The TV is still tone mapping from what I can see. (Murder on the Orient Express was a much better test case for trying to figure that out in my case). What I don't understand is how the dynamic tone mapping on the Panasonic UB820 gets around this issue (if it actually does but in my testing it sure seems to). I tried with the LG's dynamic tone mapping on and off and it didn't seem to make any difference. I would have thought, and madshi agreed with the theory, that turning on dynamic tone mapping in the LG would mostly disable the tone mapping if it is already sent a properly tone mapped image for the max nit level for the display. That didn't appear to be the case, unfortunately.

[mclingo]

oh cool, thanks

[Sunset1982]

PC mode will only work right for SDR, it always uses REC 709 for HDR (unless you have the fix in the 2018 models). RGB 4:4:4 is important because that's what madVR and the video process in, anything else will require conversion. HDR mode will require taking this hit, but I let my TV process from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2.



The downside of LG's PC mode is, that it only works in 60hz mode. If you switch to 23/24 Hz the full 4:4:4 support drops... so you can not play movies in 24p with full 4:4:4. You would have to use 60hz mode an maybe smooth motion to get the movie judder free with full 4:4:4 support. Thats the only thing left that is still annoying. Anything else is running good an I am really satisfied with my setup.

My latest and working setup:

Windows 10 1809
Kodi DS Player 17.6
AMD RX480, 8GB with driver 18.9.3
madvr 0.92.17
lav filters 0.72.0-15
xysubfilter 3.1.0.751

LG 65" C8 OLED (Frimware 04.10.05) / Black Level: high
AMD settings: RGB Full, 10 bit
madvr: 0-255

[mclingo]

no issues here in PC mode, switches 23/24 fine, something is wrong there, thats kind of the point of PC mode

[mclingo]

you defo got deep colour enabled on all HDMI port?

[Sunset1982]

it will switch fine, but you wont get the full 4:4:4 support...

[mclingo]

you mean you cant set your PC desktop to 4:4:4 FULL RGB @23hz, are other resolutions greyed out, or does it just do nothing?. Doesnt MADVR output 4:4:4 full RGB 23hz when playing a movie?

i'll have a look at this later when I get home, i'm currently upgrading to 1803, and then to 1809 which i'm sure is going to be a mistake :(