Anyone familiar with MOGG's? What's the best output file?

[jz1276]

I've been using MOGG files (multiple OGG files) to make my own mixes in 5.1 with Audacity. I play these back using Kodi which is connected to a Pioneer receiver. At first, I used OGG, but the channels were all off (front right in rear left, LFE in the rear right, etc.) so I switched to FLAC which playback as expected. I know going from lossy to lossless will result in a bigger file than the original, however, the resulting FLAC files are around 4x bigger than the original MOGG's. I was thinking about switching to AC3 but am concerned about losing too much quality. Any input is appreciated!

[tebasuna51]

If you have a multichannel FLAC, than play with correct channels as you expect, you can recode it to any lossy format at your choice ogg, aac, opus, ac3, ...

If you select AC3 Kodi can send by SPDIF or HDMI the audio to your Pioneer.
With other format Kodi must decode your lossy format to PCM 5.1 and send it, by HDMI only, to your Pioneer.

[jz1276]

If you have a multichannel FLAC, than play with correct channels as you expect, you can recode it to any lossy format at your choice ogg, aac, opus, ac3, ...

If you select AC3 Kodi can send by SPDIF or HDMI the audio to your Pioneer.
With other format Kodi must decode your lossy format to PCM 5.1 and send it, by HDMI only, to your Pioneer.

Thanks, but I already know this. What I'm asking is which format is best to use (other than OGG for the reasons stated in my first post).

[tebasuna51]

The best, to avoid compatibility issues with players, is the AC3.

But by quality/size AAC, OPUS and OGG are better. We can't expect channels change if you use a apropriate encoder (NeroAacEnc.exe, qaac.exe, opusenc.exe or oggenc2.exe).
There are GUI's (BatchEncoder (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174242), MeGUI (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=112496), BeHappy (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104686), UsEac3to (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145574), ...) if you don't know how use command line encoders.

Seems the problem is because Audacity export the channels to oggenc2 in bad order, you can still use Audacity if reorder the channels like the image:

[jz1276]

The best, to avoid compatibility issues with players, is the AC3.

But by quality/size AAC, OPUS and OGG are better. We can't expect channels change if you use a apropriate encoder (NeroAacEnc.exe, qaac.exe, opusenc.exe or oggenc2.exe).
There are GUI's (BatchEncoder (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174242), MeGUI (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=112496), BeHappy (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104686), UsEac3to (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145574), ...) if you don't know how use command line encoders.

Seems the problem is because Audacity export the channels to oggenc2 in bad order, you can still use Audacity if reorder the channels like the image:

As far as compatibility issues, playback with all formats except OGG is correct (I've never tried OPUS). I do prefer OGG because the originals are (M)OGG and the output file size is appropriate. FLAC however, is just way too big. I'll take your advice & encode the FLAC files to OGG & reorder the channels in Audacity. Thanks!

[Midzuki]

@jz1276: when you said "ogg" you actually meant VORBIS. Ogg is a container. An evil and stupid container BTW. Opus audio is stored in the ogg container as well... the file extension ".opus" is in fact an intentional misnomer — in the same way ".wmv" means *ASF*.

[jz1276]

The best, to avoid compatibility issues with players, is the AC3.

But by quality/size AAC, OPUS and OGG are better. We can't expect channels change if you use a apropriate encoder (NeroAacEnc.exe, qaac.exe, opusenc.exe or oggenc2.exe).
There are GUI's (BatchEncoder (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174242), MeGUI (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=112496), BeHappy (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104686), UsEac3to (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145574), ...) if you don't know how use command line encoders.

Seems the problem is because Audacity export the channels to oggenc2 in bad order, you can still use Audacity if reorder the channels like the image:

So I tested out a OGG Vorbis file with the channel mapping you provided & it plays back correctly. However, I have at least 100 files I have to convert & when exporting the audio with Audacity I have to remap the channels every time. Is there a way to save the channel mapping specifically for OGG Vorbis??

[tebasuna51]

Maybe if you explain what are your sources (format, size, channels,...), and the process than you do in Audacity (only merge or ...), I can show you a way to do the job more easy.

BTW you can use oggenc2.exe directly from the Audacity Export dialog to avoid the Audacity buggy remap.
See the image.

You need oggenc2.exe (http://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggenc.php) at some point in your PC.

1) You must select the Name like X.ogg
2) and Type: (extern program)
3) Explore to found your oggenc2.exe in your PC.
4) Complete the needed command line, where:
-q 3 (is the desired quality from 10 high to 0 low)
--ignorelength (only needed for big files but can be used always)
-o "%f" (replaced be the Name X.ogg selected like output file)
- (take like encoder input the Audacity output, now without buggy remap)

That command line is remembered by Audacity and can be selected with the down arrow in Command for further exports.

5) Save and accept the remap dialog without changes.

[jz1276]

Maybe if you explain what are your sources (format, size, channels,...), and the process than you do in Audacity (only merge or ...), I can show you a way to do the job more easy.

BTW you can use oggenc2.exe directly from the Audacity Export dialog to avoid the Audacity buggy remap.
See the image.

You need oggenc2.exe (http://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggenc.php) at some point in your PC.

1) You must select the Name like X.ogg
2) and Type: (extern program)
3) Explore to found your oggenc2.exe in your PC.
4) Complete the needed command line, where:
-q 3 (is the desired quality from 10 high to 0 low)
--ignorelength (only needed for big files but can be used always)
-o "%f" (replaced be the Name X.ogg selected like output file)
- (take like encoder input the Audacity output, now without buggy remap)

That command line is remembered by Audacity and can be selected with the down arrow in Command for further exports.

5) Save and accept the remap dialog without changes.

Thanks for this. I will give this a try when I have time. My sources are MOGG files. Each MOGG file contains multiple OGG files which usually have a separate OGG for vocal track, guitar, drums, bass, etc.. I import the MOGG file into audacity and create a 5.1 mix.

[tebasuna51]

Well, if you need Audacity to do the mix at your taste we can't do anymore.
The standard channel order in 5.1 is: Front-Left, Front-Right, Front-Center, Low Frequency Effects, Surround-Left, Surround-Right.

[jz1276]

Well, if you need Audacity to do the mix at your taste we can't do anymore.
The standard channel order in 5.1 is: Front-Left, Front-Right, Front-Center, Low Frequency Effects, Surround-Left, Surround-Right.

Having a little trouble. followed your instructions but cannot get the channel mapping to save. I still have to remap the channels when importing a new file.

[tebasuna51]

I still have to remap the channels when importing a new file.

Please upload a little sample of new file than you import.