merge or edit cells?

[Matt Kirby]

I want to replace the vobs of the mainmovie and keep the menu.
my way:
I imported the vobs in Tmpgenc Authoring Works 5, keeped all audio-tracks, chapters, subtitle-tracks and I added a subtitle-track and created a new DVD-structure with new vobs.

Then I open the old DVD-folder with vobblanker and replace the mainmovie with the vobs created by TAW. Now one problem: The old mainmovie has 16 cells and 16 chapters. The new one (by TAW) has 17 cells and 16 chapters. TAW creates on cell more. I don't know why. Vobblanker sets the chapterlist so the last chapter is lost, because of the new cell in the middle of the movie. Now there's one more chapter in the middle and no one at the end. The links in the DVD menu are shifted, too.

look at the pics:

original-DVD mainmovie
https://s1.imagebanana.com/file/180418/thb/8xXqTRWP.jpg (https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1031/8xXqTRWP.html)

TAW mainmovie
https://s2.imagebanana.com/file/180418/thb/aCaLgyD0.jpg (https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1031/aCaLgyD0.html)

is it possible to merge cell 8 and cell 9, so that vobblanker can replace the vobs correctly?

[r0lZ]

You cannot merge several cells together without re-encoding. But you can merge two programs, and therefore also two chapters.

In the bottom screenshot, cells 8 and 9 are already merged. They form a single program/chapter. However, if you replace the VOBs with VobBlanker, it will probably consider each independent cell as a single chapter, because it doesn't look at the IFO. Normally, it's not a problem. Let VB do its work, then use PgcEdit to clone what you see in the bottom screenshot.

Here is how:
Select the movie in the left pane. Click "Edit PGC" in the bottom left corner to open the PGC Editor. You will see the list of cells, similar to your first screenshot. Just click on the button "9" in the "Prog. (PG)" column. The following programs and chapters will be moved one cell down, and you will obtain something similar to your second screenshot. OK the dialog and save the DVD.

That should work, but verify anyway. Chapters 9 to 16 should now point to the right cells, and your chapter menu should work as intended.

[Ghitulescu]

An All-In-One solution would be SubtitleCreator (https://www.videohelp.com/software/SubtitleCreator).

As told you in the German forum, there is some work involved.
Frankly I do not see the reason why one would use TAW if only subtitles/audio have to be added/replaced/deleted and NO MENUS should be changed/edited/added/removed.

The cells IDs (CID/VID) may be edited, added, reordered, even moved (a CID must be associated with an existing VOBU) without reencoding the video, but the trouble is that no software I know can do this. The easiest way is to reencode the video, with chapter marks, which would direct the encoder to place CID/VID at those positions.

Use the sticky of adding subtitles/audio to existing DVDs with menus and live happy.

[Matt Kirby]

That works good. Now the (new) chapter in den middle is gone. And the menu works good, too
But at the end the last chapter isn't there. And when I click in the menu on the last chapter-link, I come back to mainmenu.
Now I must split chapter "15" into two. Or delete it and add two new. Is that possible?

https://s2.imagebanana.com/file/180419/thb/kIuk7eER.jpg (https://www.imagebanana.com/s/1032/kIuk7eER.html)

[Matt Kirby]

I've got it! I splited the last chapter with Vobblanker. Now all works fine. Menu links are correct, too.
Thank you so much!

[r0lZ]

Well, in your second screenshot of your first post, there are 17 cells. You want 16 chapters. One cell is not used. You have therefore 16 free cells for your chapters and everything should work.

Of course, if you use ANOTHER set of VOBs with only 16 cells (as shown in the PgcEdit screenshot above), the last chapter will be missing. Use the re-authored VOBs you have shown in your first post and everything will be correct. I cannot explain how to do it if you change the VOBs all the times.

[Matt Kirby]

1. screenshot: that are the vobs of the original DVD
2. screenshot: that are the vobs of TAW (the new ones) with one more cell
3. screenshot of pgc: that are the vobs after I used vobblanker and clicked in PGCedit on button "9"

after use of vobblanker last chapter is gone, because there was the new one in the middle.

Now I reloaded that DVD-folder into VB and splitted the last chapter, that works. Or is there a better way?

[Ghitulescu]

after use of vobblanker last chapter is gone, because there was the new one in the middle.

The behaviour of VobBlanker depends on its settings :)

[Matt Kirby]

The behaviour of VobBlanker depends on its settings :)

I tried many settings, but allways the warning

Cells to be replaced =16.
Cells in replacing VOB=17
WARNING: Number of Cells higher in replacing title. Extending last cell

[Ghitulescu]

A warning is not an error :)

[r0lZ]

Use PgcEdit's Create New Cell on the original DVD before you use VB, so that it will not complain about the additional cell in the new VOBs. Delete the new cell when everything else is done and the chapters are correct, or leave it in place. It's a very short black cell, almost un-noticeable, that should not hurt.

[Matt Kirby]

Great!
That works too!
Now the problem is solved, I think.
Thanks again!

[Ghitulescu]

I said to you in Gleitz that all Tsunami products after 1.5 or 1.6 versions forcibly reencode the video, even if fully compliant (eg from a commercial DVD).

I do not think this is the right solution, but in the end you spend the encoding time and you watch the result.

[Matt Kirby]

No, they don't. There is a "smart rendering mode", that doesn't encode when it's not necessary.

[Ghitulescu]

There is no better demonstration that demuxing the video elementary streams from each and run a FC /B video-original.m2v video-taw.m2v, although a size comparison would probably be faster.

I would be interested in finding whether it reencodes and if not what SW version it is.

[Matt Kirby]

It's Version 5.2.6.65
Please believe me. If all values are accepted by TAW as DVD standard there is no encoding by TAW. A whole DVD authoring takes 3 minutes. (~4 GB) It's the same time it takes to copy (remux) the original streams to new vobs.

If there are some frames that aren't accepted then only this few frames will be encoded. And that will be displayed.

But there are some DVDs, that are strange encoded, TAW says they are not standard and encode moviefiles totally new. But if I change some values of the elementary m2v-stream with the tool "Restream", it works without reencoding, too.

http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/taw6.html

read the part of "smart rendering"

[Music Fan]

Can it also make smart rendering with TS files and output them also in TS ?

[Matt Kirby]

TmpgEnc Authoring Works is a program to create DVDs and BDs.
The Output is a DVD-structure or a BD-structure. (no TS-File)

But if the input TS-container includes a MPEG2-video stream or a (bluray compatible) h264-stream it works without re-encoding.

If the output file should be a TS-container there are other tools from the company or you have a look at "TSDoctor".

[r0lZ]

Can it also make smart rendering with TS files and output them also in TS ?
I think that VideoReDo (https://www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm) can do it.

[Music Fan]

I know both TSDoctor and VideoReDo but I read that none can really cut properly interlaced h264, there are some freezes or stuttering.

Can TmpgEnc Authoring Works export a BD-structure without menu ?
If yes, the export should be quick and the TS can be recovered easily with Tsmuxer.

[Matt Kirby]

I work often with TSDoctor and I cut ts-files with that, too. There are no freezes or stuttering. But TSDoc cuts the movies only at I-Frames. The cutting is not frame exact.

Yes an export without menu is possible. BUT the most DVBTV-transport-streams are not compatible to the BluRay standard. In this case TAW will reencode the movie.

For your case try: VideoReDo, TSDoctor or TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 5

http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/tmsr5.html

[Music Fan]

Thanks, I had found TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer but it's quite expensive for the use I have.

I work often with TSDoctor and I cut ts-files with that, too. There are no freezes or stuttering.
Even with interlaced h264 ?
And can it append segments ?
I could do this with Tsmuxer but it's not that precise ; you can't cut on the i-frame you want, only on the timing. And there is no preview.

[Matt Kirby]

Even with interlaced h264 ?

Yes, I think so.



And can it append segments ?

No, I don't know how. There is a filemerge tool, when your TV-receiver splits one recording.


You can download a trial of TSDoc and try for yourself.

[Music Fan]

Ok thanks.

[Ghitulescu]

If there are some frames that aren't accepted then only this few frames will be encoded. And that will be displayed.

Laymaen usually have a simplisitic opinion upon professional things.
Some think that by buying eg a professional screwdriver or hammer they are automatically professional themselves, even if they have no idea how a nail is hammered down.
Others think professional is just another word to describe expensive things.

I would like to find out how this software managed to insert a new cell in a commercial videostream, which had to be strictly compatible with the standard, without recoding at least partially the video? And what reason had TAW discovered to consider a perfect legit video as "smart rendering"-able?

Reading about is not the same as FC /B (for binary). I bet you'll have a surprise.