What's the difference between subtitles and closed captions?

[Katie Boundary]

Also, what are "forced" subtitles? I'm trying to encode The Phantom Menace with english subtitles ONLY for the alien dialog, rather than the whole movie, but I just can't find the right combination of settings in VSrip. An answer to the title question might help.

[Groucho2004]

Apparently Google does not work where you live so I googled it for you. It took 10 seconds to find this (https://www.matinee.co.uk/blog/closed-captions-vs-subtitles-and-why-the-difference-is-important/) site.

Forced subtitles are either encoded into the video or, if embedded in a container, have a special flag that tells the video player to always display them.

[Katie Boundary]

How odd. I very, VERY frequently see subtitles that describe sounds as if they're closed captions.

[wonkey_monkey]

How odd. I very, VERY frequently see subtitles that describe sounds as if they're closed captions.

Then maybe they are closed captions.

[Shark007]

How odd. I very, VERY frequently see subtitles that describe sounds as if they're closed captions.

That is called 'Described Video'. It is not subtitles.
It is a setting on the TV itself.

[wonkey_monkey]

It is a setting on the TV itself.

Please don't assume anything where Katie Boundary is concerned. You won't be thanked for it if you've made the wrong assumption.

Edit: "described video" sounds more like Audio Description which is for the blind, not the deaf.

[burfadel]

Closed captions I believe are primarily for the hearing impaired, they can be added live to live broadcasts or be on the bluray etc. For things like DVD or bluray, they not only convey dialogue but also context. For example, a clapping audience or if someone is making funny noises and the camera is on the other person at the table. The facial expressions mean nothing without the context of why they're making those faces.

Subtitles are purely to convey language.

[johnmeyer]

They are the same thing, but implemented using entirely different technology. In practice, both can provide just dialog text, or can be used to provide audible cues for those who are totally deaf.

Closed captions were part of the "VBI revolution" (my term) that happened back in the early 1980s when the NTSC and PAL standards groups started allocating various portions of the Vertical Blanking Interval to carry various types of low-data-rate text, such as time-of-day clock, program guide, and closed captions.

When digital video came into its own in the 1990s, first with HD video and then the DVD in 1997 (in the USA), it became possible to add as much information as you wanted to the video stream, and format it any way you want. I am not sure why the text on DVDs became known as subtitles, rather than captioning, but it was (and is) essentially the same thing, except with more capability and features.

BTW, as most of you probably know, the word "closed" refers to the fact that the captions can be turned on and off; "open" captions are hard-coded into the video, like foreign movies you watch in a theater.

[Katie Boundary]

That is called 'Described Video'. It is not subtitles.
It is a setting on the TV itself.

No it isn't. I can see them in the ripped subtitle streams that I pump into Virtualdub through Vobsub :)

[wonkey_monkey]

like foreign films you watch in a cinema.

Just subtitling that into English ;)

On DVD I usually see the descriptive ("[explosion]/[phone rings]") subtitles labelled as "English for the hard of hearing."

[hello_hello]

I think depending on where you live, subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing are the same as closed captions, although I'd always understood CCs are generally encoded like teletext, and DVD SDH subtitles are the DVD equivalent of closed captions, or something....

Here's a DVD example of CCs that aren't the usual DVD bitmap subtitles (18MB) https://ufile.io/6b6k5
The main reason I realised the CCs existed was because I couldn't see any "normal" DVD subtitles when opening the IFO file with MeGUI's vobsubber (there's a second DVD "information" subtitle stream, but no "normal" bitmap CC subtitles). The only software player I tried that displays them correctly is VLC. MPC-HC doesn't seem to acknowledge they exist. Maybe it's an XP thing. The CCs can be extracted as SRT with CCExtractor or MeGUI extracts them as SRT with VSRip even though they don't show up in the vobsubber's list of subtitles.

https://s10.postimg.org/v6kx0t0nd/image.jpg

[hello_hello]

Also, what are "forced" subtitles? I'm trying to encode The Phantom Menace with english subtitles ONLY for the alien dialog, rather than the whole movie, but I just can't find the right combination of settings in VSrip. An answer to the title question might help.

Forced subtitles can be their own stream or part of a "full" subtitle stream. MeGUI extracts forced subtitles with VSRip by creating a text file with a vobsub extension that looks like this:

E:\CC\VTS_01_0.IFO
D:\CC_VTS_01_1_forced
1
1
0
FORCEDONLY
RESETTIME
CLOSEIGNOREERRORS
CLOSE


MeGUI's command line looks like this:

"C:\Program Files\MeGUI\tools\vsrip\vsrip.exe" "D:\CC_VTS_01_1.vobsub"

I've only ever used a GUI myself so I'm no expert. Anyone know if there's an updated help file for VSRip? I couldn't seem to find one and the help file I have for the old VobSub is dated 2002 and looks to be out of date. I'm not sure I've ever seen a help file/command line for the Avisynth VSFilter plugin either.

[manono]

Forced subtitles can be their own stream or part of a "full" subtitle stream.
Bingo. I almost replied to groucho2004's post until I got to the bottom of the thread and saw yours. If memory serves, the alien talk in the Star Wars films is a separate subtitle file. You'd look for the ones that are smaller in size than the others. If you don't find them then they're in the main subtitle file and you'd turn on the 'Forced' flag in the IDX to get only them.

[StainlessS]

SubRip has option to extract Forced Subtitles, in options, you've gorra remember to turn it off again.

IIRC, PAL, "The Hunt for Red October", forced subs lose sync by about 20 secs when the Russians abandon the pretend scuttled sub, but then get back in sync.