Remove pulldown on-the-fly

[GCRaistlin]

I have a BDRemux ('Derailed' 2005 Director's Cut) which video is
Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1920x1080 29.97fps [V: Russian [rus] (h264 high L4.1, yuv420p, 1920x1080)]
There is judder during the playback of this video (while madVR OSD reports no problem with dropped frames). If I cut a sample with tsMuxeR it can be played back perfectly smoothly (I'd even say too smoothly). So I believe removing pulldown is needed here. The question is if it can be done on-the-fly, i. e. during the playback of the original file?

[Asmodian]

Yes, madVR supports IVTC. Deinterlacing in Film mode is IVTC.

[GCRaistlin]

I turned off deinterlacing in LAV Video and finally got "deinterlacing on" and "ivtc queue" in madVR. But judder is still here - I can't see the difference.

[Asmodian]

What frame time does the video have?

[GCRaistlin]

What's the frame time?

[huhn]

can you make a screen of the OSD?

[GCRaistlin]

http://i103.fastpic.ru/thumb/2017/1223/5f/b4ffc305f50fb2dc3c25ce83cbdde45f.jpeg (http://fastpic.ru/view/103/2017/1223/b4ffc305f50fb2dc3c25ce83cbdde45f.png.html)

BTW deinterlacing is active only by (.) if in doubt activate deinterlacing.

[huhn]

the screen is as good as it can get in term of smoothness i don't know why you can see a difference.

[GCRaistlin]

Yes the screen is good but the playback isn't. I'd upload the sample but as I wrote above after tsMuxeR all is fine. Is it a way to disable removal of pulldown in tsMuxeR?

[Asmodian]

Your frame time is still 33.37 ms, I would expect 41.71ms if IVTC was working properly. Does it work if your force deinterlacing in Film/IVTC mode? It seems to detect the cadence correctly so I would expect it to work now. :confused:

[GCRaistlin]

I was wrong about disabling deinterlacing in LAV Video, it isn't actually needed.

I have madVR's deinterlacing always set to (.) force film mode as video mode isn't working anyway there (as deinterlacing is broken in AMD drivers). With (.) if in doubt activate deinterlacing, the result is above. With (.) if in doubt deactivate deinterlacing:
http://i102.fastpic.ru/thumb/2017/1223/6a/f285e0a3ea69f6b57f398b244f1f966a.jpeg (http://fastpic.ru/view/102/2017/1223/f285e0a3ea69f6b57f398b244f1f966a.png.html)

[huhn]

Your frame time is still 33.37 ms, I would expect 41.71ms if IVTC was working properly. Does it work if your force deinterlacing in Film/IVTC mode? It seems to detect the cadence correctly so I would expect it to work now. :confused:

it doesn't change in the OSD and stays at 33.37 ms that's normal.

[nevcairiel]

Your display is still 60 Hz, so while madVR can remove 3:2 telecine, it practically has to add it back to display the resulting 24p video on a 60Hz screen.

[huhn]

smooth motion is on on the first screen at least.

[GCRaistlin]

nevcairiel, thank you very much! Indeed, it was because of my 60 Hz monitor. On my projector (24 Hz), the playback is fine.
I still don't understand why I can't get smooth playback on 60 Hz without removing pulldown (60 Hz is the "native" refresh rate for 29.97fps video, isn't it?) and why other NTSC and 24p movies can be played just fine on my 60 Hz monitor (they should stutter as this video does with pulldown removed, shouldn't they?).
Is it a madVR bug that it doesn't detect the need of deinterlacing here? I started MPC-HC on the projector screen (using "/monitor 2" parameter), but without forced deinterlacing, madVR still doesn't enable it.
Is there any disadvantage to have deinterlacing always forced (Film mode) in madVR?

BTW tsMuxeR removes pulldown here in an improper way - the result file is sped up: http://mir.cr/FWJCCGKP

[huhn]

nevcairiel, thank you very much! Indeed, it was because of my 60 Hz monitor. On my projector (24 Hz), the playback is fine.
without smoothmotion you should get a 3:2 judder with a 23p file on a 60p screen.

I still don't understand why I can't get smooth playback on 60 Hz without removing pulldown (60 Hz is the "native" refresh rate for 29.97fps video, isn't it?) and why other NTSC and 24p movies can be played just fine on my 60 Hz monitor (they should stutter as this video does with pulldown removed, shouldn't they?).
smoothmotion can fix that and you are using it on one screen.
and no if you use IVTC on a 60i file it end up as 23p so it can't be played smooth at 60 Hz natively. (it should work fine with smoothmotion).

if you deinterlance a 3:2 telecine file you will end up with a 59p file that has a 3:2 judder in it so it can never be smooth with a simple deinterlancer.

Is it a madVR bug that it doesn't detect the need of deinterlacing here?
if the file is correctly created with a deinterlancing flag it should say deinterlancing on (says upstream).
if not the file is incorrect or you changed some settings in lavfilter.
and if all these things are correct than it maybe a bug in lavfilter or madVR. but this is not the first interlanced BD run with madVR and lavfilter.
I started MPC-HC on the projector screen (using "/monitor 2" parameter), but without forced deinterlacing, madVR still doesn't enable it.
i still don't know if your file is flagged correctly.

Is there any disadvantage to have deinterlacing always forced (Film mode) in madVR?
an interlanced file can't be IVTC so interlance playback is "broken".

for best quality leave film mode active on madVR and use YADIF in lavfilter if the file is interlanced. GPU deinterlancer are prettym bad with these drivers these days.
BTW tsMuxeR removes pulldown here in an improper way - the result file is sped up: http://mir.cr/FWJCCGKP
after removing telecine the file should run a 23p not 29p but your fiel runs at 29p

[GCRaistlin]

without smoothmotion you should get a 3:2 judder with a 23p file on a 60p screen.
I have the default smooth motion setting. When I play back a "normal" NTSC file smooth motion is on. When I play back this file smooth motion is off; if I force it on the picture twitchs badly.

and no if you use IVTC on a 60i file it end up as 23p so it can't be played smooth at 60 Hz natively. (it should work fine with smoothmotion)
No I mean I should be able to play this file back without IVTC at 60 Hz. But I am not.

if the file is correctly created with a deinterlancing flag it should say deinterlancing on (says upstream).
How can I check if the flag is present?

an interlanced file can't be IVTC so interlance playback is "broken".
An interlaced file can't be processed properly by madVR so we need LAV Video software deinterlacing option in this case (and it's not the case I'm speaking of). I mean can any issue arise when I play back a non-interlaced file if Film mode deinterlacing is forced in madVR?

for best quality leave film mode active on madVR and use YADIF in lavfilter if the file is interlanced./QUOTE]
That's what I do. I just wonder if I can safely leave (.) if in doubt activate deinterlacing.

[QUOTE=huhn;1828246]after removing telecine the file should run a 23p not 29p but your fiel runs at 29p
Yes you're right. A tsMuxeR bug?

[huhn]

I have the default smooth motion setting. When I play back a "normal" NTSC file smooth motion is on. When I play back this file smooth motion is off; if I force it on the picture twitchs badly.

sorry this is not enough to make a conclusion for me. maybe to high rendertimes.

No I mean I should be able to play this file back without IVTC at 60 Hz. But I am not.

if you do that it will show a 3:2 judder but that clearly possible but far from perfect.

How can I check if the flag is present?

try media info or try lavfilter with default setting and see what madVR say about it (with default deinterlancing settings).

An interlaced file can't be processed properly by madVR so we need LAV Video software deinterlacing option in this case (and it's not the case I'm speaking of). I mean can any issue arise when I play back a non-interlaced file if Film mode deinterlacing is forced in madVR?

the problem is DXVA deinterlancing something AMD and NVIDIA have to fix. it is simply not as good as it was in the past so YADIF is currently a good alternative.

if you force film mode an interlanced file it will look terrible.

Yes you're right. A tsMuxeR bug?
sorry no clue never used that program or i can'T remember using it