DTS mayhem

[Grimsdyke]

I have a problem with DTS HD MA audio tracks on a few (not all !!) Blu-Rays on my system (Win7, 32 bit).
The movie/file is loaded but just wouldn't play in MPC-BE using external LAV and MadVR !!
However, playback is fine after:
- selecting a different format audio track, like ac3, etc. OR
- blocking external LAV audio in BE's settings OR
- deactivating DTS in LAV Audio formats OR
- deactivating "Don't mix stereo sources" in LAV Audio Mixing OR
- deactivating "int24", "int32" and "float" in BE's audio settings OR
- using all external LAV filters and EVR CP

So, it's all over the places. Does anyone maybe have an idea how to fix this ??

[huhn]

check it first with mpc-hc and see if this works.

[Aleksoid1978]

Don't use LAV Audio Decode in MPC-BE, it's just don't need there.

[Grimsdyke]

I would really prefer a fix and not just a work-around !!
If full External LAV and EVR CP works but not with MadVR doesn't that mean that there is a 'bug' somewhere ? Maybe in LAV or in MadVR ?
Shouldn't Nev and/or Madshi be interested to look into this ?

[nevcairiel]

Why would audio and video renderer be in any way related?

[Grimsdyke]

check it first with mpc-hc and see if this works.

I did that, of course, and HC works fine but I am not surprised by that because they had months/years to optimize their code with LAV filters.
But this doesn't help me that much because of "dual audio out" and "auto load external audio" BE is my prefered player !!

[huhn]

you are not making this easy...

so we know now that lavfilter and madVR are not the real problem.

so the next thing i would like to see is the filter list in mpc-be.

[Grimsdyke]

Wait a minute please.
If "MPC-BE + LAV + EVR CP" works but "MPC-BE + LAV + MadVR" not, how can you rule out MadVR ?

[huhn]

Why would audio and video renderer be in any way related?

that's why so GL Sir.

[Grimsdyke]

Why would audio and video renderer be in any way related?

"MPC-BE + Internal Filters + MadVR" work flawlessly !!
"MPC-BE + LAV + MadVR" does not work. I am just reporting the problem(s) and was asking for advices.

[huhn]

so let's try it one more time.

can i please see the filter list that is used when you play the file in mpc-be?

[Grimsdyke]

Gee, and I thought that the Doom9 forum is a place to get some useful help/informations instead of fancy one-liners.
So I will block LAV audio decoder because it is buggy when dealing with mpc-be and these Blu-Rays ! Thx.

[huhn]

yeah don't give people a way to reproduce the issue.

nicht schlecht junge.

[nevcairiel]

If people ask you for a certain piece of information and you snap at them instead of providing this information, how do you expect to get any help, on any forum?

[Asmodian]

You assume that you know what the problem is and refuse to provide simple information to assist us in figuring out what is wrong and then complain about “fancy one-liners”? Is “can I please see the filter list when you play the file in mpc-be?” a fancy one liner? :confused:

Do you want help or are you just here to berate the people who gave you free software and/or are trying to help? :rolleyes:

[Grimsdyke]

In which way is was Nev wrote in post #5 helpful in my case ?? Huhn refused to answer my specific question in post #8 !

The only useful advise came from Aleksoid to not use LAV Audio with MPC-BE. But I found a slightly different config that works too. Case closed

[Asmodian]

I see, just berating then.

If the problem only happens in MPC-BE why do you assume the bug is in LAV or madVR?

Ah nevermind, you don’t want help or intend to help.

[Grimsdyke]

Wrong, I would love to get 'good' help which means not telling me 'do that' without any explanation why and when I ask a question inbetween just getting ignored.
For example, not only your MadVR setup tutorial is brilliant but also the way you handle questions in that thread !!

As I said, I have found a work-around-config that still allows using LAV audio and works for most of the problematic blu-rays. The only one so far that still refuses to play will be watched with PotPlayer.

[huhn]

so you really need someone to explain you why someone wants to see the filter list?
sorry i will always assume some basic knowable.

this is a waist of time.

[Grimsdyke]

Yes, you wasted a lot of my time ...

[Grimsdyke]

If the problem only happens in MPC-BE why do you assume the bug is in LAV or madVR?

Had the time to do more tests over the weekend !
Object: 'Creature from the black Lagoon' (UK BluRay)
Test 1)
PotPlayer + internal filters + MadVR
Works fine as long as H/W-decoding is active. There is an icon on this player's taskbar that lets you switch between S/W and H/W.
Test 2)
Potplayer + (full) LAV + MadVR
S/W-H/W switch icon is gone and playback is extremely bad. Movie plays for maybe half a second then pauses then plays again and so on until it completely stops.
Test 3)
Potplayer + LAV (but blocked LAV video decoder) + MadVR
Icon is back and playback is fine again !!!

However, while going through the Potplayer settings I noticed one odd thing. On its system info tab it claims that I only have directX 9.0c installed ! That is wrong (dxdiag confirms dx11) but I re-installed it directly from MS again just to make sure but made no difference.

Again, I am only reporting the issues (not with LAV Audio now though) that I have on my system - any useful help is welcome and much appreciated.

[nussman]

So it works fine with H/W-decoding?
CPU load without H/W-decoding?

Did you test LAV filter with H/W-decoding?

[clsid]

You can ignore the DirectX version. It probably reads it from the Registry and that contains value 9.0c even on new versions of Windows. Your system has DX 9, 10 and 11.

[Grimsdyke]

@ nussman. Yes, H/W-decoding is perfectly fine. Without it CPU load is 100%. H/W-decoding seem to be completely unavailable with LAV - or is there a way to brute-force it to run ?

@ clsid. Thanks for the info but is it not possible that MPC-BE and PotPlayer are looking for certain dll-functions at the wrong entry points then when (maybe) expecting 9.0c dlls ?
KODI reports accurately dx11.1 ! Will check asap how KodiDS is running with LAV.

[clsid]

You can enable hardware acceleration in the settings of LAV Video Decoder. The HW toggle in PotPlayer only affects its own internal codecs.

No, you can and should ignore the DX stuff. Nothing is wrong.

[Grimsdyke]

Do you mean the MPEG-4 box ?? That one is grayed out both in DXVA2 native and copy-back.
What about these Mediatype=>Mediasubtype settings in LAV audio ?? When I click on a DTS one a window pops-up displaying only zeros but also a drop-down window with a lot of options.

Well, maybe it is just a fateful combination of how the disc is authored (especially the DTS HD-MA track on it) and my hardware in general !! And as I said in my OP this problem comes up fortunately only on a few (5 or 6) Blu-Rays and I could live with these work-arounds (blocking LAV audio, etc.) until I upgrade to UHD sometime early next year anyway.

[QBhd]

Maybe if you included what was asked in post #7 we could hunt down the problem better for you...

QB

[Grimsdyke]

Maybe, but the filter list of a DTS HD-MA blu-ray that works and one that does not work is identical ! Or is there a more detailed filter list than the one through right-click ?
Also, as I tried to explain I would like to understand the nature of a problem so what's wrong with simply saying if this or that is in the filter list the following might be wrong/corrupted/or whatever ?

[jmartinr]

Maybe... You're not going to know if you don't include it.

[nevcairiel]

Also, as I tried to explain I would like to understand the nature of a problem so what's wrong with simply saying if this or that is in the filter list the following might be wrong/corrupted/or whatever ?

There is so many possible things that could be wrong, that knowing whats in there makes it just so much easier to possibly answer that.

[clsid]

The Status tab in LAV Audio decoder might reveal the differences between the two tracks.

My guess is that the problem is in the audio stream switcher or in the audio renderer (if you use the internal one).

[Grimsdyke]

Thanks guys ! Unfortunately I don't have the time right now to check everything - so more to follow.
- Tested Sanear audio renderer but the problem is still there.
- Can MPC-BE be 'forced' to use an external audio switcher ? It seem to be quite easy in HC but I did not find a setting for that in BE.
- I have made screenshots of LAV audio status and pin in both scenarios !! I don't use any upload services but I would love to send these images per email.

[clsid]

You can disable the audio switcher as a test. It is not really needed because the splitter already does stream switching. It is only useful for loading audio dubs, or if you use its volume functions.

You can use tinypic.com or imgur.com for storing screenshots. You need to do most effort, not we.

[Grimsdyke]

LAV Audio pin info. It seems to try to handle DTS HD-MA track as AC3.

- Connection media type:

Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz mono 128kbps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Audio {73647561-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3 {E06D802C-DB46-11CF-B4D1-00805F6CBBEA}
formattype: FORMAT_WaveFormatEx {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 256000
cbFormat: 18

[nevcairiel]

Thats the input to LAV Audio, it cannot control this. It gets told by whatever source filter that is being used, and if the source claims its AC3, but it is actually DTS-HD, then there is nothing LAV Audio can really do about that.

[Grimsdyke]

O.K., so after blocking LAV splitter so that MPC-BE is using internal ones I get this and now the movie plays !!

- Connection media type:

Audio: DTS 48000Hz mono

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Audio {73647561-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_DTS {E06D8033-DB46-11CF-B4D1-00805F6CBBEA}
formattype: FORMAT_WaveFormatEx {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1
cbFormat: 18

[Aleksoid1978]

I have a problem with DTS HD MA audio tracks on a few (not all !!) Blu-Rays on my system (Win7, 32 bit).
The movie/file is loaded but just wouldn't play in MPC-BE using external LAV and MadVR !!
However, playback is fine after:
- selecting a different format audio track, like ac3, etc. OR
- blocking external LAV audio in BE's settings OR
- deactivating DTS in LAV Audio formats OR
- deactivating "Don't mix stereo sources" in LAV Audio Mixing OR
- deactivating "int24", "int32" and "float" in BE's audio settings OR
- using all external LAV filters and EVR CP

So, it's all over the places. Does anyone maybe have an idea how to fix this ??

Upload short sample(you can use tsmuxer/dgsplit to split large .m2ts files from you "problem" Blu-Rays) - i'l check.

[Grimsdyke]

I have sent you already samples of one of the effected blu-rays a few weeks ago. Not through this board but 'privately' !! But if you need more I will send them - would 3 samples be enough ?
However, maybe you can also have a look at how MPC-HC handles these files ? HC overrides external LAV splitter with an internal solution/patch and this somehow seem to does the trick !!

From HC:

Filter : LAV Audio Decoder - CLSID : {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
Filter: LAV Splitter Source (internal)
Pin: Audio

- Connection media type:

Audio: DTS 48000Hz mono 1152kbps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Audio {73647561-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {A2E58EB7-0FA9-48BB-A40C-FA0E156D0645}
formattype: FORMAT_WaveFormatEx {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 256000
cbFormat: 18

[Grimsdyke]

@ Aleksoid. I have done a few tests with tsMuxeR and one of the 'problem' discs.
1) muxing to HD without any changes => problem is still there
2) muxing to HD with option downconvert DTS HD-MA to DTS enabled => movie plays, but switching to another language track causes playback to pause !!
Only after clicking 'stop' and then again 'play' makes BE playing with the newly chosen audio track.
3) muxing only an unchanged DTS HD-MA track without video to HD => playback is fine. dts hd-ma properly recognized.

[Aleksoid1978]

I have sent you already samples of one of the effected blu-rays a few weeks ago. Not through this board but 'privately' !! But if you need more I will send them - would 3 samples be enough ?
However, maybe you can also have a look at how MPC-HC handles these files ? HC overrides external LAV splitter with an internal solution/patch and this somehow seem to does the trick !!

From HC:

Filter : LAV Audio Decoder - CLSID : {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
Filter: LAV Splitter Source (internal)
Pin: Audio

- Connection media type:

Audio: DTS 48000Hz mono 1152kbps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Audio {73647561-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: Unknown GUID Name {A2E58EB7-0FA9-48BB-A40C-FA0E156D0645}
formattype: FORMAT_WaveFormatEx {05589F81-C356-11CE-BF01-00AA0055595A}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 256000
cbFormat: 18

Upload again.

[Grimsdyke]

@ Aleksoid. Sorry for not replying sooner but while preparing the samples I noticed one thing that I wanted to explore further. As I said I have (fortunately) only 5 problematic BRs but on two of them it works to only open the movie file itself from within the bdmv-stream-folder on the Blu-Ray !! Perfect playback with DTS HD-MA sound !!

So I thought that maybe the mpls-files might cause the problems but the other three titles still show the same issues. However, this might give you an idea what else to check.
Will send you the 3 samples later today or tomorrow. If you need the other 2 to compare too just let me know. Thx.

[Grimsdyke]

@ Aleksoid. Holy macaroni, I think I finally found it !!
After deactivating 'mix channels to' in BE's sound processing the problem seem to be gone (setting was '5.1'). In fact, the overall volume is much higher now. It is almost as if BE's and LAV audio's sound processing worked against each other.
But there are now still two titles left that somehow hinder the correct playback - maybe with mlps-files and/or with files in the fab!-folder, like 'contentrevocation', etc.
The movie files themselves located in the bdmv-stream-folder play beautifully.

[Aleksoid1978]

@ Aleksoid. Holy macaroni, I think I finally found it !!
After deactivating 'mix channels to' in BE's sound processing the problem seem to be gone (setting was '5.1'). In fact, the overall volume is much higher now. It is almost as if BE's and LAV audio's sound processing worked against each other.
But there are now still two titles left that somehow hinder the correct playback - maybe with mlps-files and/or with files in the fab!-folder, like 'contentrevocation', etc.
The movie files themselves located in the bdmv-stream-folder play beautifully.

Anyway, upload samples.
And show you settings LAV Audio and MPC-BE Audio, when have a trouble with playback.