Blu Ray Tools...What \ Where are they?

[flambot]

Hello,

Not sure I posted this in the right place...but here goes??

I'm in the process of getting into some BD (haven't made the move yet).

One of the things that has held me back is the seeming lack of tools to mod the BD structure once it is on the HDD. There are probably a few, but I don't know what they are.

I have a lot of tools for DVD - mainly - DVDRemakePro (Excellent tool), DVDSubEdit, IFOEdit, VOBlanker and a host of others. I know enough to make them do what I need to do - namely...

1. Add new chapters to DVD
2. Jumpover logo crap at the beginning of titles
3. Edit forced Subs
4. Blank \ Remove blocks
5. Most other things that crop up and I can figure it out

The first two are easily achieved using DVDRemakePro, but is there a similar tool for BD? Can you add chapters to the BD format?

What about "Jumpover" things at the beginning of titles (don't know how to jumpover stuff in the middle or end of a title - would like to know)

Forced subtitles I use DVDSubedit and IFOEdit to flag them correctly.

Blank \ remove blocks I use DVDRMP - this to make video segments during or after the credits easy to watch.

Would love to know of a tool like DVDRMP that works on BD.

Thanks for any insight - Regards :)

[flambot]

Gee...over 250 views and not a single comment about the tools that are available. Have I posted wrong or something?

[SquallMX]

Editing BDs is way more complex than editing DVDs, but for the most basic stuff you can use BDEdit and MultiAVCHD.

[flambot]

Editing BDs is way more complex than editing DVDs, but for the most basic stuff you can use BDEdit and MultiAVCHD.

Really appreciate the input. I'll look up those two programs. Thanks.

[von Suppé]

Also take a look at tsMuxer, BDSup2Sub, Subtitle Edit, BD3D2MK3D (for 3D bluray processing tools), HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Stream Extractor, BD Rebuilder to name a few.

Edit: BDInfo is important to have IMO.

[flambot]

Also take a look at tsMuxer, BDSup2Sub, Subtitle Edit, BD3D2MK3D (for 3D bluray processing tools), HD-DVD/Blu-Ray Stream Extractor, BD Rebuilder to name a few.

Edit: BDInfo is important to have IMO.

Thanks for these suggestions. Still waiting for my first BD's to arrive, then I guess I'll have lots of questions on how to use these tools.

[von Suppé]

waiting for my first BD's to arrive...
If you are going to burn BD discs I suggest you take a look at ImgBurn also.
And may I suggest to get one or two BD rewritables for testing purposes. Saved my butt (and $$) often.

[flambot]

If you are going to burn BD discs I suggest you take a look at ImgBurn also.
And may I suggest to get one or two BD rewritables for testing purposes. Saved my butt (and $$) often.

BD-Rewritables would be a good idea. Never been much of a burner. Prefer HDD based stuff. My first step will be to figure out how to add chapters to a BD on the HDD.

[von Suppé]

Adding chapters (timecodes) for bluray can easily be done in tsMuxer.
If you are going to rip & store your blurays on harddrive, have you thought about the option to save videos in mkv container?

[flambot]

Adding chapters (timecodes) for bluray can easily be done in tsMuxer.
If you are going to rip & store your blurays on harddrive, have you thought about the option to save videos in mkv container?

I'll have to look at that as well. Does txMuxer reencode the video? Don't really want to re-encode anything. I like the idea of a smaller file size (that's the purpose of mkv container isn't it??) but not so keen on all the time it takes.

Got my first BD today and backed-up one disc to HDD. Wow...lots of scary things to learn. I was shocked that a 3 episode disc was 41Gb eek:

Lots to learn, but my first step is how to do chapters (my most used function when tweaking DVD's. Is there a "best use" tool for chapters?

[von Suppé]

Does txMuxer reencode the video? No, it just muxes the streams you pick.
...a smaller file size (that's the purpose of mkv container isn't it??)No. First of all, mkv is a mediacontainer (just like avi for instance). It will accept many sorts of audio, video, subtitles, attachements etc. Read the mkv homepage. It is true however, that mkv is very popular for people that do re-encoding audio/video. But there's a lot more you can do with mkv.
...my first step is how to do chaptersTake a look at chapterEditor.

[hubblec4]

Hi flambot

My chapterEditor(v.051) is maybe the right one for you.
It helps you to get easy mkv's from Blurays.
All is untouched if you want, no lossy compression tools!

You will find a Matroska Menu Editor, to make a small menu-mkv which controlls all your episodes. You can watch the entire season with a double-click only.

[flambot]

Thanks for the help.

I'm in somewhat of an info overload at present. Lots of things to try and figure and not really sure where to start.

That chapter editor looks promising. Can I assume it only does MKV - not the barebones BD Folder (Not sure what to call the original Blu Ray format).

MKV is something I'm going to look at (after using CBD) that seemed to do a good job of their creation. Seems the MKV format is easier to work with after-the-fact - than seeming a BD Folder. I need to find more time to experiment! I have found that BD Folders written to ISO seem to take longer to start in KodiTV than the same file written as a MKV.

What are the disadvantages of leaving the bly rays in that format compare to re-encoding to MKV?

Does BDEdit create new Chapters in a BD Folder? Looks really scary when open. Actually, looks like working with BD's is going to be tricky. Appreciate the help.

Regards

[von Suppé]

... BD Folders written to ISO seem to take longer to start in KodiTV than the same file written as a MKV.Not working with KODI but hardware mediaplayers, but I can confirm this behaviour. I guess a player must mount the iso first, before it can read the actual data. This will take some time. Also, one of my mediaplayers has a full BD license, so I think it will have to adjust its settings (mostly restrictions...) and playback protocols when loading an iso or BD folder structure.
What are the disadvantages of leaving the bly rays in that format compare to re-encoding to MKV?First of all, going from one container to another is not really re-encoding.
Modern video-encoders like x264 can reduce filesize significantly, with out noticable qualityloss. In a lot of cases you'll also be able to downsize audiostreams without audible loss.
Then mkv is a popular container. It accepts a lot of codecs with their numerous settings, resolutions etc. It gives you playroom. Whereas keeping your format within BD specs, with re-encoding, all media has to meet BD standards. So you'll be limited in what codecs and settings you wanna use.

Should you just remux (not transcode) certain audio- and videostreams, you can choose to stay with BD folder structure (or iso) or go mkv, it's up to you.

Does BDEdit create new Chapters in a BD Folder? Looks really scary when open.I wouldn't know. Be careful. You really need to know what you are doing to use BDEdit. You have to know about BD authoring and what data is stored in several files within the BD structure.
I would not know what I'd be doing, so I leave it alone, for now.

Dive into chapterEditor, I think it can do what you'll need.

[flambot]

@von Suppé...thanks for the info. A lot to digest. I used iso for my DVD's on my server because they started so much faster in KodiTV (well..then is was xbmc) than a DVD folder (and their is only one file which I like). Iso can be a pain to tweak - meaning you have to go back to the folder structure to do so.

So...using say CloneBD to put it in a MKV container isn't re-encoding. That's interesting. And...that's called remuxing.

So...it's probably easier to tweak MKV than BD Folder??

BDEdit does show interesting info, but I wouldn't know where to begin - hence the scary aspect. Creating new chapters is the first thing I want to learn. I'll use a test BD folder, but also experiment with MKV. There seems to be a lot of tools for that.

Is there a MKV remake pro tool any where?

One issue I do think about a lot is that my collection runs from an unraid server. Should I loose the redundancy that offers, I would not only have to re-rip all the discs, but also remux to the MKV container - something I don't have to do with DVD in the iso container. So restoring everything (should there ever be a failure on my server) would be a lot less work (time) if the bluray was left in the basic BD format.

Ultimately...at this point anyway...I probably won't get into a lot of BD's. Modern DVD's (upscaled via KodiTV) look really good and take a fraction of the space that a BD does. The show that I'm working with is approx 6-8Gb per episode in BD - whereas a modern DVD show I recently backed up was only 1.3gb per episode. A major difference.

[von Suppé]

I have no experience with CloneBD. I decrypt & rip my BD's with AnyDVD to iso.

Is there a MKV remake pro tool any where?mkvtoolnix is a tool I do most of my mkv stuff with. It also has a built-in, easy-to-use chapter editor.

hubblec4's chapterEditor has great features too.

If ripping and decrypting your BD's aren't a problem (it's the first step), to get you started, I would suggest you begin with learning how to use tsMuxer, chapterEditor, mkvtoolnix. Also MediaInfo, an identifier tool, may come in handy. These are tools that will teach you the basic steps.
Try the simple stuff first, like with tsMuxer remuxing a movie-only, or episode-only, to BD folder structure or iso.
With chapterEditor, load a BD or mkv and extract and edit chapters from it.
And with mkvtoolnix, load a bluray or mpls file and make a mkv.

Try to get acquainted with basic workflow, lay-out and your understanding with those tools. It's basic, not so difficult and you'll pick up after a couple of try-outs.

[tebasuna51]

Remember MakeMkv (http://www.makemkv.com/) than decript DVD/BD and make mkv's without change nothing (or recode some audio tracks).

[hubblec4]

@flambot

Maybe there are disadvantages to remux a Bluray to mkv, but there is a feature in Matroska which I have never found in other containers, called "Ordered Chapters".

When you create an mkv with the full content of an episode/movie(Intro,Review,Credits and so on), you have the abillity to make your own Edition of content what you like to watch only.
My episodes have almost ever 3 (ordered)Editions
1. Full content
2. without the Credits
3. only the episode (without Intro,Rewiew,Credits)

The mkv will stay untouched. Only new chapters have to create and save to the mkv file, so often you like.

[flambot]

Thanks a lot for all this info. I haven't had a lot of time lately to experiment, but I'm slowly coming to terms with it.

@ von Suppé - AD is how I got my first BD folder on the HDD. Do you mod your BD's from ISO (or leave them intact?). Or convert them from BD ISO to MKV.

CBD makes it easy to convert to MKV and has a nice batchy thingee that allows you to write individual episodes (from a single BD Folder) into single file output all from one session. I quite liked that. I am using a trial version that adds a watermark to the output when you change container.

I have lots of experimenting to do I can see. "mkvtoolnix " is another tool I'll have to investigate.

Seems there are much more tools for MKV than BD. The tools don't have to be free either. The end result is the ability to do what I need with the minimum of effort.

Yes...I only want movie only (no menus) and I always cut the credits (they take too much space). Episodes take more effort - usually in the form of chapters and jumping over Studio logos at the beginning (For DVD, I leave episodes complete (only mod the IFO) so that I can overwrite them later with the modded version if I have to rebuild.

One of the things that makes me a little wary of some of these tools is that many of them require other software - especially codecs - to work. Don't want to mess up my new machine.

@tebasuna51 - MakeMkv is something I plan to look at, but too many new thingees all at the same time make the head spin. LOL!

@ hubblec4 - That "Order chapters" sounds really interesting. Does your chaptereditor make these or some other tool?

Really appreicate the input. I'm definitely leaning toward MKV container at this point. Most players seem to play it as well. Need to find some time to play :) Thanks muchly.

[iSeries]

I second MakeMKV, you don't really need anything else. Just put the disc in, fire up the program, select the streams you want to mux, and let er rip. Anything else will require something that can decrypt the discs (AnyDVD, DVDFab etc). MakeMKV is an all-in-one solution.

[hubblec4]

Hi flambot

My chapterEditor(eC) is special designed to work with Matroska/MKVToolNix(MTX).
cE helps MTX to use more Matroska features. A Bluray with Multi-Angles or Multi-Editions can be saved in a Multi-Edition-mkv which saves a lot of space.

With Ordered Chapters you can do a lot crazy stuff.
You can cut all Credits, expect one, and you can show the Credits for all other episodes without space doubling.
While you watch the video, to jump over the studio logo, is not anymore necessary.

My cE-BD2mkv can also split the mkv before the mkv is muxing, so only one mux-process is required.

makemkv is a good choice, You have to know nothing :-)
But the mkv is always not what I want.
Some Blurays have no forced subs, but in the "main" sub there are exists subs for an "alien-dialog". Now you have to extract the "main" sub from the mkv, edit and remux to a new mkv.

With cE you can edit everything before you mux the mkv(simple audio convert, add subs, cutting and so on).

[von Suppé]

Do you mod your BD's from ISO (or leave them intact?)

I mostly rip to iso and go from there. But ripping to folder structure is more direct as you don't have to mount iso's.
When doing a bluray 3D movie only, ripping to iso takes less space because of the SSIF files. Also I remux to iso because my DUNE mediaplayer only accepts that as full HD 3D input. So, I sort of got used to working with iso-image.

You should do as you prefer. Quality-wise there is no difference.

[flambot]

I had a quick look at some of these tools in the last couple of days...namely Chapter Editor, MKVTool Nix and TsMuxer.

The time code for the chapters seems reasonably straight forward, but how do you get the time code for any chapters you want to add? It would seem the ms range is usually 3-4 numbers (that's being really specific). None of these programs seems to have a player (have I missed it??) to get the time code of the exact chapter point. What does one do?

I have looked at the time code in PD16, but the ms amount is only 2 numbers (how does one get more? Are more numbers even required?) I am new to PD16 as well, so perhaps I've overlooked something.

@von Suppé - I don't do 3D movies. They make me ill!

@hubblec4 - I dont' know anything about multiangles (even on DVD). Can't think of a single movie that has that facility (on DVD) - and if it did...I missed it! :) Sounds too complex for my limited skills.

I'm definitely going to have to learn more about the ordered chapters. That sounds like something I would use.

Question: How do you switch between the various versions with your player? Is it done with a menu?? Or, can some type of dialog box be brought up with the remote?

You seem to have a number of different programs. I have got chapter editor (rev 0.51). Is this the correct one? Are there some tutorials somewhere that tell me how to use it?

Thanks.

[flambot]

Hello again...

I am looking at "multiAVCHD", but it is unclear on which versions of the other software that it needs to work is required. Many of the posts \ threads are very old and I wonder if someone with the knowledge of this program could tell me which verions to use...namely for...

AviSynth
ffdshow
Haali Media Splitter.

Thank you.

[von Suppé]

...how do you get the time code for any chapters you want to add?
For exact timing info you can playback your video in VirtualDub FilterMod. The timecode is shown in both framenumbers and hours:min:sec:thousandths

[hubblec4]

I had a quick look at some of these tools in the last couple of days...namely Chapter Editor, MKVTool Nix and TsMuxer.

The time code for the chapters seems reasonably straight forward, but how do you get the time code for any chapters you want to add? It would seem the ms range is usually 3-4 numbers (that's being really specific). None of these programs seems to have a player (have I missed it??) to get the time code of the exact chapter point. What does one do?

I have looked at the time code in PD16, but the ms amount is only 2 numbers (how does one get more? Are more numbers even required?) I am new to PD16 as well, so perhaps I've overlooked something.

I'm not 100% sure but maybe these 2 numbers are frames, it is often the case. So you have to calculate the ms with this 2 frame-number and the frame rate of the movie.

In my new chapterEditor(cE) 1.00Beta1 you can save the chapters directly into an mkv file and with the VST-hotkey(p) or the "Play"-button
starts the video automatically. Then I "pause" the video and jump to the chapter point. If the right frame is shown -> OK, otherwise
click the "next" frame button in the player, count them and multiply it with 40ms. Set the new chapter timestamp, save again and play it.
I have learned that sometimes a chapter mark not always match to the right frame. A manually correction is sometimes needed.


@hubblec4 -

I'm definitely going to have to learn more about the ordered chapters. That sounds like something I would use.
Ask me, I will help you.


Question: How do you switch between the various versions with your player? Is it done with a menu?? Or, can some type of dialog box be brought up with the remote?

Some players like VLC has an internal Matroska Parser and can handle multi editions.
The best Matroska Parser/Splitter for the moment is LAV Filters. Mpc-hc has LAV on board.
In the try icon of the LAV Splitter you can switch between the editions.



You seem to have a number of different programs. I have got chapter editor (rev 0.51). Is this the correct one? Are there some tutorials somewhere that tell me how to use it?

In rev0.51 is the BD2mkv editor, but for chapter editing it's better to use the new rev1.00Beta1
Go to my page here in the form(see signature) there are some more information. You will find a link to an old tutorial.

hubble

[flambot]

For exact timing info you can playback your video in VirtualDub FilterMod. The timecode is shown in both framenumbers and hours:min:sec:thousandths

I'll give this a look. Can it play the BD folder, or do the files have to be in MKV format?

[flambot]

@hubblec4 - Thanks for your patience and generous post.

I watched the old tutorial video, You make it look easy :)

As for selecting the edition you want to watch, it sounds as if you watch it from the computer?? Is easy selection possbile at the TV via KodiTV?

Ultimately, I would only be interested in only one edition, but an edition where the playlist (chapter order) is structured the way I want it. The video didn't seem to actually show you making chapter changes - just adding the various editions (or were the chapter changes done first prior to import?

I have downloaded the correct chapter editor. Time to have a play. Thank you very muchly.

[hubblec4]

@hubblec4 - Thanks for your patience and generous post.

I watched the old tutorial video, You make it look easy :)
This video is very old and show not the entire process.
When I'm finish with the new cE, I will make more and better documentation and tutorials.


As for selecting the edition you want to watch, it sounds as if you watch it from the computer?? Is easy selection possbile at the TV via KodiTV?

For me is a PC also a Media-Player. I use mpc-hc and so I have no limits to watch videos.
Other software like KodiTV have not so good mkv support. I read that Kodi has implemented "ordered chapters" but I don't know how good it works.



Ultimately, I would only be interested in only one edition, but an edition where the playlist (chapter order) is structured the way I want it. The video didn't seem to actually show you making chapter changes - just adding the various editions (or were the chapter changes done first prior to import?

In the tutorial-video the chapters will be automatic generated. That's the normal way for the BD2mkv editor.
Chapter editing is with the new cE very easy.
You can change the "order" of the chapters and then set the start- and end-timestamps for the corresponding video-parts.

Example:
Your episode starts with an Intro: Delete the first chapter (00:00:00.000 - 00:00:50.000)
The Studio Logo: Delete this chapter (00:02:00.000 - 00:03:00.000)

You have then chapters like this:
00:00:50.000 - 00:02:00.000
00:03:00.000 - 00:40:00.000

The video duration is now 38min 10sec

hubble

[flambot]

This video is very old and show not the entire process.
When I'm finish with the new cE, I will make more and better documentation and tutorials.

That sounds good. If I'm going to tweak anything in a video, it's just about always the chapters

For me is a PC also a Media-Player. I use mpc-hc and so I have no limits to watch videos.
Other software like KodiTV have not so good mkv support. I read that Kodi has implemented "ordered chapters" but I don't know how good it works.

I've been using KodiTV for a long time (although I'm currently running a couple of versions behind because the skin I use hasn't been updated for the latest version). I hadn't heard about ordered chapters. Being able to disignate a playlist and the order it plays in KodiTV would be awesome

In the tutorial-video the chapters will be automatic generated. That's the normal way for the BD2mkv editor. Chapter editing is with the new cE very easy.
You can change the "order" of the chapters and then set the start- and end-timestamps for the corresponding video-parts.

Example:
Your episode starts with an Intro: Delete the first chapter (00:00:00.000 - 00:00:50.000)
The Studio Logo: Delete this chapter (00:02:00.000 - 00:03:00.000)

You have then chapters like this:
00:00:50.000 - 00:02:00.000
00:03:00.000 - 00:40:00.000

The video duration is now 38min 10sec



I was hoping it would work like this. I'm going to have to find more time to play. Much appreciated.

[von Suppé]

Can it play the BD folder, or do the files have to be in MKV format?
It will accept mkv and m2ts. You can't load a mpls from BD though. When you have a seamlessly branched disk you'll first have to mux the proper playlist to BD iso with tsMuxer so you can load the one m2ts stream, or mux playlist with mkvtoolnix and load the mkv then.

[flambot]

Hello there,

I've been busy slowly learning my way around BD. I'm ripping to folder, then creating MKV files with CloneBD. This all takes time and the process is slow bacause of the large files. However, CBD is creating files that have a audio sync issue (the last and worst yet was 1.5 seconds out). All the titles to date that I have backed up to mkv have this issue to some degree?? So...I am trying another tool.

I have started using "mkvtoolnix GUI." I have created a couple of mkv titles from BD folder - using the exisiting playlist. I have a couple of questions regarding this program...

1 - When I play back the resultant mkv file using PDVD17, the video looks slow...like it's sort of a slowmotion effect. Why?? Using PDVD16 this doesn't happen. Is there a setting somewhere I should look for?? (Yeah...this is a weird one)

2 - CloneBD has the ability to easily trim the beginning and end of the video. How is this achieved using "mkvtoolnix GUI" (I want to remove studio logos at the beginning and credits it the end)

Thanks in advance.

[von Suppé]

When I play back the resultant mkv file using PDVD17, the video looks slow...Using PDVD16 this doesn't happen
I think it's a flaw then in PDVD17.
I don't know these programs but for mkv playback I'd try another player like MPC-HC, VLC or PotPlayer.

As for your second point, I have no experience with mkv trimming using mkvtoolnix. I'm sure other people could tell you.