Why is vobsub so screwy, and has anyone tried to fix it?

[Katie Boundary]

I'm trying to create an encode of "X-Men: Days of Future Past" in which the French/Vietnamese dialog is hardsubbed but the rest of the dialog isn't subbed at all. I did something similar with Star wars episodes 4 and 6 quite successfully so I'm not exactly flying blind here. This DVD has five subtitle tracks according to Smartripper:

0x20 English
0x21 Spanish "normal caption"
0x22 English "normal caption"
0x23 Spanish "normal caption"... again? Because logic?
0x24 French "normal caption

However, when I load the IFO into VSrip.exe, it tells me that there are TEN subtitle tracks, with each one apparently duplicated. VLC does the same thing, so WTF is going on?

Furthermore, when I was trying to burn onto a 352x240 image, tracks 00 and 01 filled the entire movie with English subs. When I edited the AVS script to make the image 640x360 instead, the subs crap out somewhere near the 38-minute mark. Again... WTF?

[hello_hello]

Let me gaze into my crystal ball. The multiple streams for each language could be due to one being normal subtitles, and another being for the hard of hearing, or maybe forced subtitles or InfoText etc. Other than that.... contrary to your signature you still haven't learned to upload a sample with a copy of the script.

If VLC shows ten subtitle tracks, why not enable them and have a look to see what subtitles display?

[Katie Boundary]

I think that "normal caption" means "sub everything", whereas "English" without the "normal caption" could mean "sub only the french and Vietnamese dialog". But this doesn't make any sense because tracks 00 and 01 (which presumably would correspond to 0x20) have subs for everything.

[Katie Boundary]

Damn, I just realized that I need to do the same thing for First Class because of the German dialog in the beginning.

[hello_hello]

Your torturing a perfectly innocent video by resizing to 352x240 because it has German dialogue at the beginning?

[manono]

I doubt VOBSub has anything to do with it. If, for example, you loaded the DVD into PGCEdit and checked the subs, I expect you'd be shown the same labels. There's no standardization for what subs contain what. It's not uncommon for even the language name to be incorrect.

However, when I load the IFO into VSrip.exe, it tells me that there are TEN subtitle tracks, with each one apparently duplicated.

It's common for subs for 16:9 DVDs to have two tracks for each stream. One's for use with old style 4:3 televisions, the other for 16:9 televisions. The dialog will be the same; the difference is in the shapes of the letters. You should really be more careful about accusing excellent programs of 'errors' and you should realize where the fault really lies. There's nothing wrong with VobSub and nothing needs to be fixed. You should just continue to learn and not always think that just because you don't understand something, the program you're using is somehow at fault.

I agree it's sometimes difficult to figure out what subs contain what and often the only thing to do is to get them all and have a look. In general, the really small files contain forced subtitles (foreign and alien languages), but forced subtitles might also be a part of the larger sub file with all the dialog, but with a forced flag set on the forced subs.

Furthermore, when I was trying to burn onto a 352x240 image, tracks 00 and 01 filled the entire movie with English subs.
The subs were created for 720x480/576 DVDs. You lower the resolution that drastically and that's what happens. You can edit the VOBSub IDX file to 'fix' it so it plays correctly in your ruined video.

[Katie Boundary]

Sorry, I neglected to mention that when Vobsub tries to read the "English normal caption" subtitle tracks, they're completely empty (despite working fine in VLC). However, I just chalked it up to the "subs spontaneously crap out at different moments in time depending on the video resolution" bug.

It's not uncommon for even the language name to be incorrect.

That wasn't the case this time. I checked.

It's common for subs for 16:9 DVDs to have two tracks for each stream. One's for use with old style 4:3 televisions, the other for 16:9 televisions. The dialog will be the same; the difference is in the shapes of the letters. You should really be more careful about accusing excellent programs of 'errors' and you should realize where the fault really lies.

The number of tracks isn't the error that this thread is primarily addressing. However, that info does explain why the sub tracks placed the same subs on different parts of the image.

There's nothing wrong with VobSub and nothing needs to be fixed.

Aside from the fact that it cannot read two subtitle tracks correctly, and can only read two others correctly when the resolution is scrunched down to VCD standards.

The subs were created for 720x480/576 DVDs. You lower the resolution that drastically and that's what happens. You can edit the VOBSub IDX file to 'fix' it so it plays correctly in your ruined video.

Perhaps you didn't read correctly. Sub tracks 0 and 1 only played correctly at the smaller resolution. At the larger resolution, they crap out at a specific moment in time, which obviously has nothing to do with resolution because the video doesn't change from one resolution to another at that moment. This isn't even the first time this has happened; back when I was hardsubbing Neon Genesis Evangelion, there were a few episodes where the subs would again crap out roughly 1/3 of the way through the episode.


EDIT: Oh, great. Now the subs crap out at the 38-minute mark no matter what the resolution is. VobSub also can't read the French sub tracks. Like I asked before... why is VobSub so screwy, and has anyone tried to fix it?

[Ghitulescu]

Is it too much to read first the documentation then complain?

[Nevilne]

Try downscaling further down to 4x4 that should fix your issues.

[hello_hello]

I've not had subtitles "crap out" on me at a certain time, ever.

Maybe Katie should take note of her signature and give the proven method a try rather than blaming the program. Instead of making every thread a combination of a guessing game and Katie telling people they're wrong, try describing your process exactly and upload the script and a sample so someone else can see exactly what's happening.

I've never resized DVD subs as I mostly convert them to text format anyway, but I thought I'd give editing with VobSub a try. Nothing screwy so far.

https://s21.postimg.org/lv6iqabhz/subtitles.jpg

[Katie Boundary]

Try downscaling further down to 4x4 that should fix your issues.

LOL, I'm not willing to go smaller than 16x16 :D

[hello_hello]

Another thread that'll go nowhere despite the best efforts of everyone except the OP. I think I'll delete my earlier post providing info as I appear to still be on Katie's ignore list and contrary to the fantasy she's living through her signature, she's obviously determined to learn everything the hard way. Time to give up, I think.

[johnmeyer]

Another thread that'll go nowhere despite the best efforts of everyone except the OP. I think I'll delete my earlier post providing info as I appear to still be on Katie's ignore list and contrary to the fantasy she's living through her signature, she's obviously determined to learn everything the hard way. Time to give up, I think.Yeah, her signature. Who the heck extends the middle finger to every member of the forum as part of her signature, to wit: "I've learned a lot in the past 2 years, unlike certain other members." Since she doesn't specify who "certain other members" might be, we all have to assume she mean each one of us.

Are all Russian women this arrogant and condescending? I'm married to a nice English lass and thankfully have never had to deal with anything like this.

It is also amazing that she has such vitriol for free software. What does she expect?

And, as always, I keep searching for a question: what the heck is she asking, and what is she trying to do?

[raffriff42]

Kind, helpful people, willing to share their knowledge, are seen by some as merely exploitable for lulz.

[Katie Boundary]

Who the heck extends the middle finger to every member of the forum as part of her signature, to wit: "I've learned a lot in the past 2 years, unlike certain other members." Since she doesn't specify who "certain other members" might be, we all have to assume she mean each one of us.

That's a very stupid assumption to make. I'm actually referring to maybe 2 or 3 members.

Are all Russian women this arrogant and condescending?

Only after intense, prolonged exposure to other people's logical fallacies, attempted thread-derailment, and illiteracy.

vitriol for

You misspelled "insistence on using".

And, as always, I keep searching for a question: what the heck is she asking

It's right there in the thread title. Have you tried reading the thread title? It might help.

and what is she trying to do?

It's right there in the first sentence of the OP. Have you tried reading the first sentence of the OP? It might help.

Kind, helpful people, willing to share their knowledge, are seen by some as merely exploitable for lulz.

Thank you for your attempt at derailing the thread. Would you like to discuss Vobsub glitches?

EDIT: Well, I managed to make some progress. I renamed "X-Men DoFP_1.vob" to "X-Men DoFP_0.vob", edited the .d2v file accordingly, and re-ran VSrip, and now the subtitles crap out at 39 minutes instead of 38 minutes. Woo yay.

[hello_hello]

That's a very stupid assumption to make. I'm actually referring to maybe 2 or 3 members.

Speaking of logical fallacies....


Thank you for your attempt at derailing the thread. Would you like to discuss Vobsub glitches?

A thread can't be derailed when it's already pointless and going nowhere. We'd all love to discuss Katie glitches, if only you'd provide samples and useful information instead of arguing & insulting people. You probably could have solved the problem days ago if you'd approach it like a grown up.

EDIT: Well, I managed to make some progress. I renamed "X-Men DoFP_1.vob" to "X-Men DoFP_0.vob", edited the .d2v file accordingly, and re-ran VSrip, and now the subtitles crap out at 39 minutes instead of 38 minutes. Woo yay.

So in line with not providing a copy of the script you're using, a sample, or any useful info about your workflow etc and despite deciding editing d2v files and renaming vobs might be a way to fix a subtitle problem, you've made virtually no progress? There's a surprise.....

[Katie Boundary]

Alright, after uninstalling and reinstalling everything, and switching from version 1.0.0.6 to 1.0.0.7 of VSrip, I've gotten the subtitles to work all the way up to 55 and a half minutes. This includes tracks 04 and 05, which I know because the French / Vietnamese dialog section is in the first half of the movie. I now have exactly the video stream that I need.

Unfortunately, I still have no idea what's causing the spontaneous subtitle crapout glitch, so I don't know if I'll be able to repeat this success with First Class or any other movie or TV show ever.

[StainlessS]

So the problem seems to be with VSRip and not VobSub from the VSFilter plug ?

I've never used VsRip, I prefer SubRip or SubtitleEdit.

(SubRip suffers from the very occasional access violation, but results dont seem to be impaired at all and will happily continue
after click 'OK' [Might miss 1 sub]).

[Katie Boundary]

So the problem seems to be with VSRip and not VobSub from the VSFilter plug ?

I have no idea.

[StainlessS]

VsRip:- https://www.videohelp.com/software/VSRip

VSFilter (TextSub & VobSub):- https://avisynth.org.ru/docs/english/externalfilters/vsfilter.htm

[My pref for ripping]
SubRip:- https://www.videohelp.com/software/Subrip
SubRip on D9:- http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=142819

[My pref for Edit]
SubtitleEdit:- http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=162721

[Katie Boundary]

I appreciate the attempt at help, but I assure you that if I had any interest whatsoever in OCR or "soft" subtitles, this thread would not exist.

[wonkey_monkey]

I appreciate the attempt at help

Well that's a first.

[manono]

You're using VSRip to get the VobSubs, right? Have you used VobSub Configure before? It's what I always use. It's included in the VOBSub (https://www.videohelp.com/software/VobSub) package.

[Katie Boundary]

I've never seen "VobSub Configure"

[manono]

I've never seen "VobSub Configure"
Learn something new every day, eh?

For some reason the main Doom9 page with links to his guides is down, but here's an Afterdawn guide for the use of VobSub Configure to extract the VobSubs from a DVD:

http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/rip_subtitles_with_vobsub.cfm

[hello_hello]

Learn something new every day, eh?[/url]

Not every day. Maybe once a fortnight if she's lucky. If she hadn't ignored my post (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1806541#post1806541) ten days ago, she could have asked what I used to resize the DVD subtitles back then.

[Katie Boundary]

"For ripping subtitles you'll need to select the option on the Start menu labeled VobSub Configure."

No such thing exists in my Start menu. Damn.

In other news, the subtitles for First Class worked flawlessly on the first try.

[manono]

No such thing exists in my Start menu.

How about where you installed VobSub? In its folder do you see 'VobSub Configure'? If so, double-click on it and see what happens.

[Katie Boundary]

Ah, yes, I found a shortcut to it. I gave me this error message:

There was a problem starting Vobsub.dll

The specified module could not be found.

[manono]

I'm not too good at diagnosing problems of that type. Perhaps someone else can help. Sorry for wasting your time.

If you'd like to install VobSub another way - one almost guaranteed to work - then I'd suggest uninstalling VobSub and installing Gordian Knot (https://www.videohelp.com/software/Gordian-Knot) instead. It comes with VobSub and installs it for you. It has a section on subtitles which includes all VobSub's utilities, is useful for creating AviSynth scripts, figuring out bitrates, and making good crops and resizes.

But I'd understand if you don't much want to install and learn something else.

[Katie Boundary]

What about AutoGK? It seems slightly more up-to-date.

Would either of them overwrite my existing AVIsynth/DGIndex/XviD/etc. installations?

[manono]

Yes, AutoGK is slightly more up-to-date. But the reason I suggested GKnot is because of the other features it has, foremost among them the ability to do cropping and resizing properly. It allows you to open D2V files and AviSynth scripts, you can see the video and can accurately crop and resize. It can also figure bitrates. But the main reason I mentioned it is that it has a separate Subtitles Tab where you can create the VobSubs, or convert one form of text-based sub to another, and perform a number of other subtitle functions. AutoGK performs its functions under the hood, so-to-speak.

Although it might overwrite some of your existing programs, you can easily reinstall them. The older versions it installs can be upgraded easily to newer ones and GKnot works fine with them. I've never had any problems using newer versions of programs with GKnot where it's usually said, for example, when using AutoGK you should use the version of the XviD codec that comes with it. There wouldn't be any problem with DGIndex as it doesn't make registry entries and the two versions would be in two different locations in your computer. You'd probably have to reinstall AviSynth, but that's pretty painless.

[Katie Boundary]

Alright, I'll keep that in mind the next time I encounter misbehaving subtitles.

In the meantime, my original questions still stand :)

[hello_hello]

In the meantime, my original questions still stand :)

As does the need to supply samples.