How to avoid Windows 10

[LigH]

Microsoft is going to enforce what it previously offered as recommendation: Upgrading Windows 7 .. 8.1 to Windows 10 for free. Not everyone enjoys that. The consumer protection organization in Germany (Verbraucherzentrale) already admonished and will now sue Microsoft for this enforcement.

So what shall you do when you don't want to?

Some people go radical and change the Operating System.

Others can counter the measures by disabling the "GWX" (Get Windows X) updating system in several places. There are a few tools available, as well as documentations to do that manually. Most important is setting the Windows Update to manual download, to avoid getting surprised by a sudden loss of up to 6 GB. Also important is a registry key to disable the upgrade:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
"DisableGwx"=dword:00000001
But fighting the reminder/downloader (KB3035583) is Sissyphos work. And deleting tools and download directories, once they are present, requires some administrative knowledge too. Can it be done in a few clicks?

My first convincing find was the GWX Control Panel (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/) which removes/changes several files and registry settings, and also offers to install a monitor service which watches over important places Microsoft might silently revoke, like it does with KB3035583: You may have it removed from the list of updates to be offered, but next time it is offered again.

Which alternatives can you recommend?

[pandy]

https://github.com/szotsaki/windows-telemetry-removal

[smok3]

If you haven't go 'radical=change the os' yet, this is the time imho.

[vivan]

My first convincing find was the GWX Control Panel (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/) which removes/changes several files and registry settings, and also offers to install a monitor service which watches over important places Microsoft might silently revoke, like it does with KB3035583: You may have it removed from the list of updates to be offered, but next time it is offered again.

Which alternatives can you recommend?Of all things it does it should also
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001Which is what I did 3 months ago (plus DisableGwx) and I've never seen any upgrade prompts ever since.

[huhn]

Which alternatives can you recommend?

upgrade to windows 10 i guess.

i understand that "forcing" doesn't feel nice at all. i understand that this is a huge problem for user who can't really deal with the update and just want there system as it is. a casual user for example.

see this as an huge security update and move on

[pandy]

see this as an huge security update and move on

Prove it. Personally i don't see how OS being in early beta development stage may offer me "huge security update"
Personally i never experienced security better than from Windows NT 3.51 on next NT versions albeit i never had any security issues with Windows 2000 or XP whatsoever - i think is rather to be self aware how to avoid problems than blindly rely on new OS functionality.

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html

[Atak_Snajpera]

Did you know that m$ in win10 tracks even how often you open images in os? Win10 is not a security update. This os is filled with telemetry on every layer. Besides win10 is still in early alpha/beta stage.

[StainlessS]

Any body tried ReactOS recently, Any Good ?

[LigH]

Not recently. The last time I tried it in VirtualBox, graphics were not reliable, and the shipped file/system manager was confusing. I don't have a spare PC to try native installation with real hardware drivers...

[feisty2]

Any body tried ReactOS recently, Any Good ?

maybe going straight to Linux is better if that's what you want..

[StainlessS]

I've got a couple of P4's with 2nd OS partitions that could be temporarily handed over to ReactOS (or a couple
of P4's in pieces that could be given over indefinitely), maybe I'll try the current ReactOS alpha on one of them.
My still all time favorite was W2K.

My No#1 PC has Ubuntu on 3rd OS partition, still hate the Giraffe and Aardvark type app names ("This package installs the Aardvark application",
yeh, but 'what the hell is Aardvark', is what I'de be thinking).

Think I'll DL ReactOS today.

[pandy]

Think I'll DL ReactOS today.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=reactos-04-rc1&num=1
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ReactOS-0.4-RC1

[StainlessS]

Thanks Pandy, a very nice 94MB ISO on sourceforge, gonna give it a go :)

[huhn]

Prove it. Personally i don't see how OS being in early beta development stage may offer me "huge security update"
Personally i never experienced security better than from Windows NT 3.51 on next NT versions albeit i never had any security issues with Windows 2000 or XP whatsoever - i think is rather to be self aware how to avoid problems than blindly rely on new OS functionality.

http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why-windows-10-sucks.html

it's longer supported?
of cause self awareness is all. if it comes to security.

and at the rest.
you don't like forced updates: disable windows update which is a fix for your general issue to.
you don't like be spy'd search for XP anti spy. the issue was always there and there was always a fix for that so nothing new...

[Atak_Snajpera]

you don't like forced updates: disable windows update which is a fix for your general issue to.
You forgot that win10 is still in beta phase so disabling windows update service is not a perfect solution either.

you don't like be spy'd search for XP anti spy. the issue was always there and there was always a fix for that so nothing new...
New builds tend to reset those changes. It is constant cat & mouse game...

Win10 is not required even for games since Vulkan 1.0 API should be ready within this month. Source 2 engine from valve will run only on Vulkan. Support for this api is also planned in Unity3D and Unreal Engine 4.

[jones1913]

maybe going straight to Linux is better if that's what you want..
I agree with that, but if you depend on windows specific software (like most applications discussed in this forum) and have never used linux before, then you'll have a hard time porting your workflows to linux.

I've got a couple of P4's with 2nd OS partitions that could be temporarily handed over to ReactOS (or a couple
of P4's in pieces that could be given over indefinitely), maybe I'll try the current ReactOS alpha on one of them.
My still all time favorite was W2K.

I'm in any case curious how good or bad certain applications currently run on it (Avisynth? :) ).

However, if you need to run M$-Works 3.0 you're in luck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IYVA9naieY :D

[LigH]

Going to Linux may be a kind of solution for some. For others it may be too much trouble trying to make Windows-only tools run on compatibility layers (e.g. WineX) or finding and getting-used-to cross-platform alternatives (e.g. VapourSynth instead of AviSynth).

[huhn]

You forgot that win10 is still in beta phase so disabling windows update service is not a perfect solution either.
I don't get this "it is still in BETA". newer builds mostly add new features.

New builds tend to reset those changes. It is constant cat & mouse game...
yes the major builds will do this and not only this. it's very annoying to say it friendly.
Win10 is not required even for games since Vulkan 1.0 API should be ready within this month. Source 2 engine from valve will run only on Vulkan. Support for this api is also planned in Unity3D and Unreal Engine 4.

direct 12 is coming what so ever and it will be used. the XBOX is using it so most console ports will use it.

using avisynth(installing plugins) on windows 10 is a pain but there are workarounds to bad they are needed...

the new "security" settings on the C:\Program Files folder are just ridiculous.

[manolito]

upgrade to windows 10 i guess.
see this as an huge security update and move on

What a joke... :mad:

Mentioning Microsoft and Security in one sentence is ridiculous, those two are mutually exclusive.

The well respected German cryptography expert Rüdiger Weis recently held a speech at the annual CCC (Chaos Computer Club) convention. Here's what he had to say about Win10:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/32C3-Kryptologe-warnt-vor-dem-Botnetz-Windows-10-3057063.html

(Sorry the article is in German, but some participants in this thread are German, others have to use Google Translate)

Win10 is one huge BotNet... I love this


Cheers
manolito

[Atak_Snajpera]

direct 12 is coming what so ever and it will be used. the XBOX is using it so most console ports will use it.
Latest port from XBONE Tomb Raider uses DX11 instead of DX12
DX12 will be used mainly by studios sponsored by m$ (for example fable or killer instinct). Moreover after 6 months we still have zero games running on this api. I really do not understand why gamers jumped on this train so fast?
Rest of the studios will stick to high-level DX11 api or we'll switch to Vulkan. DX12 does not guarantee big profit since only 30% of gamers have win10 installed.

[vivan]

using avisynth(installing plugins) on windows 10 is a pain but there are workarounds to bad they are needed...Pain? I've been using W10 since insider times and had no problems with avisynth whatsoever.

[luquinhas0021]

Turn Windows automatic updates off. I do this. When I will search for updates, starts the download of Windows 10, then I press "Stop Download".

[huhn]

Pain? I've been using W10 since insider times and had no problems with avisynth whatsoever.

you are not allowed to right data in the default plugin folders. and of cause there more than one workaround.

Windows 10 fällt für den Berliner Kryptologen Rüdiger Weis unter die Lehrbuchdefinition für ein Botnetz, das Computer infiziert und Rechnerdienste vermietet. Die Begriffsbestimmung besage, dass "fremde Leute ohne Genehmigung auf meinem System Code ausführen können", erklärte der Professor auf dem 32. Chaos Communication Congress (32C3) in Hamburg. Dies treffe auf Microsoft aktuelles Betriebssystem zu, da der Nutzer darunter Updates allenfalls noch verzögern, aber nicht mehr verhindern könne.

hier hab ich aufgehört...

[Groucho2004]

I don't get this "it is still in BETA". newer builds mostly add new features.
Only Alpha builds should add features. A Beta is usually feature complete and only meant to have bug fixes.
However, over the years these definitions have become more and more obscured, probably for commercial reasons.

[manolito]

hier hab ich aufgehört...
(This is where I stopped...)

May I ask why? Too hard to understand?


Cheers
manolito

[huhn]

you can stop update for easily 6 month plus, yeah even forever.

this is just spreading fear. this is the typical response form people that didn't understand how bad the AVG user is with computer.

you just have to run one of the thousand tools out there or stop the update services...

this comes up over and over. and it fine to cry about this. windows 10 is not flawless at all.

Latest port from XBONE Tomb Raider uses DX11 instead of DX12
DX12 will be used mainly by studios sponsored by m$ (for example fable or killer instinct). Moreover after 6 months we still have zero games running on this api. I really do not understand why gamers jumped on this train so fast?
Rest of the studios will stick to high-level DX11 api or we'll switch to Vulkan. DX12 does not guarantee big profit since only 30% of gamers have win10 installed.

it needs a little bit more than 6 month to create a AAA DX12 game and don't forget the game was released with fallout 4 so it is way older.

and valve has no other way than using VULKAN. they are selling linux based steam boxes.

[manolito]

you can stop update for easily 6 month plus, yeah even forever.

this is just spreading fear. this is the typical response form people that didn't understand how bad the AVG user is with computer.


You should know that only users of Win10 Pro and above can defer (not disable) automatic updates. Users of Win10 Home are left out.

You seem to subscribe to the philosophy that the average user is just plain stupid, and for this reason Microsoft should be in control of the computer, not the user.

And for the tools you mention to disable automatic updates in Win10, yes, there are many of those tools, but employing one of them is a breach of licence.

Ina Fried, at re/code, received an unambiguous response from Microsoft (finally!) when questioned: “The license terms for Windows 10 require Automatic Updates be enabled as a part of keeping our customers secure and delivering Windows as a service.”

The EULA statement says:

6. Updates. The software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you," reads the EULA's section 6. "You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice.


So you have to become a hacker / pirate to make your operating system halfway secure... Thank you very much, indeed.



Cheers
manolito

[huhn]

going to services -> windows update -> disable is hacking?
so let it be.

[Fullmetal Encoder]

I'm not quite sure what all the outrage is about. Why not just upgrade and stay on top of the privacy options provided in the UI? If you are willing to edit the registry to disable updates in your current OS then why wouldn't you be willing to make registry edits in Windows 10 to neuter the telemetry functions? And while I can see some contending that Windows 10 offers security improvements over its predecessors (depending upon how you look at it) it's not rational to me to hold that over the years there are no worthwhile improvements to be found. As for telemetry itself, that kind of data collection is already being done in Windows 7, Windows 8.1, through Google services, MAC OS and Apple products and services... From what I've read the real privacy concerns are only warranted for those testing updates that haven't been released to the general public yet as Microsoft's EULA terms are expanded for those agreeing to test those updates.

The only real objections I can see for the average user would be concerns about the data being collected and made available to security agencies on a personally identifiable level or software that the user KNOWS simply will not work with Windows 10.

[Groucho2004]

The only real objections I can see for the average user would be concerns about the data being collected and made available to security agencies on a personally identifiable level or software that the user KNOWS simply will not work with Windows 10.
To that I would add the atrocious user interface (since W8) where MS made the half-assed attempt to combine a desktop and a mobile OS.
That's where I draw the line, my last Windows OS will be 7.

[Nullack]

Theres allot of sensationalism going on here. Im older than many of you, and have been involved professionally in systems level stuff for decades. I'm not a 20 year old geek who just discovered the wonders of GNU or whatever else in college.

The reality is that GNU / Linux / BSD like *NIX OS's are very good for specific server situations, including super computer applications. However, as a desktop OS they are all horribly broken. A desktop OS needs to do far more than a server OS. There is lots of reasons, most of them are found at http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com.au/ The intelligent and open and honest people involved in the free open source world know this too, and have contributed a fair bit of detail to sites like linux haters. Cudos to them for being objective, cos fixing weaknesses and problems is about "achieving the year of the desktop" that *NIX has been dreaming of for decades.

The only reliable and truly widely useful desktop OS's are either Windows or MacOS.

I get some people dont like Windows turning into a service offering. Fair enough.

However, to say Windows 10 is full of spy ware and that Microsoft dont understand security, is really just 1990's era claims. Microsoft *in a measurable way* has better security in windows than MacOS. Thats a fact. Microsoft has spent billions on a secure development methodology and has hardened Windows significantly from the 1990s era. Windows 10 has been certified for use in classified installations in many countries. In many countries, it is federally approved for sectors such as defence to hold various levels of classified data and systems. Including leading western worlds at high security clearance levels. Its just absurd to sprout nonsense that Windows 10 cant be effectively locked down and MS is secretly in a conspiracy to scr** the world over and spu on everyone. People who claim that are just conspiracy nutters with no professional insight into the reality of the situation.

If people say they dont like the out of the box privacy setup for Nan and Pop at home, well OK, thats a more reasonable comment. But it can be fixed.

You guys being sensationalist could do with some deeper and more mature thinking on this topic.

[StainlessS]

In just a few days (12th Jan) Remix OS alpha version will be released, Android for DeskTop machines.
http://liliputing.com/2016/01/install-remix-os-on-any-pc-to-run-android-as-a-desktop-operating-system.html

Started out as Linux on desktop, mutated to Android on Tablet/Smart Phone, and then back to DeskTop again.

[pandy]

it's longer supported?
of cause self awareness is all. if it comes to security.


Please define support... most of us use OEM version of Windows which is NOT supported by Microsoft but by OEM i.e. usually by nobody except yourself.

Side to this - i work so many years on various Windows, never for over 20 years called any vendor (also Microsoft) for support.

Windows XP is supported till 2019, i assume that Windows 7 may be supported way longer then Microsoft claim.

Windows 10 marketing strategy is classical example of FUD...
I reject this approach by definition.
i rather prefer to remove internet connectivity from machine and use older Windows than go for new DRM spyware money extorting new Windows 10.

btw i tried to install Windows 10 on a few machines i use as testing machines also to check how they behave with my company products - mostly it was HP notebooks like 8440p/6930p, i've try 3 different Windows 10 builds, never succeeded - drivers not exist, software not work (for example Edge browser), OS is practically unusable (unstable, slow etc).
Windows 10 is early beta - if you have plenty of time and you are willing to perform voluntary work for Microsoft then Windows 10 is OK, if you don't mind loose time and data then Windows 10 is fine but if you are not this kind of person then i would advise to avoid Windows 10 at all possible cost even accepting fact that you will be not able to play latest game in DirectX12 (which is only one thing new in Windows 10).

btw - i still use machines with Windows 2000 connected to network - guess what - P3 733MHz, 256MB RAM - they work without viruses (no online realtime antivirus installed but regular antivirus checking) - hilarious is to see how responsive those machines are working many years constantly without reboot (one works constantly without reboot over 3 years)

Believe me - i don't think that old Windows have more security holes than latest Windows 10.
Use decent firewall, don't install bad software (healthy way of using computer is best protection ever made).

In just a few days (12th Jan) Remix OS alpha version will be released, Android for DeskTop machines.
http://liliputing.com/2016/01/install-remix-os-on-any-pc-to-run-android-as-a-desktop-operating-system.html

Started out as Linux on desktop, mutated to Android on Tablet/Smart Phone, and then back to DeskTop again.

Well... this is another long story - why Linux is not good for your desktop unless you are masochist... http://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

And yes - i wish that Linux based OS can be good alternative but sadly i must say we are far from this - maybe we need something else than Windows and Linux (and yes i know how this sounds and how unrealistic this is).
Linux is good for servers but definitely is not god for: desktop, embedded and mobile. Maybe 1 OS can't be good for everything (same apply to Windows).

[StainlessS]

Tried ReactOS, would not boot, something about it not being able to find the Hive (registry).
Dont think it liked being installed on 2nd partition.
Well, had enough for now, maybe I'll have another go in a few days.

[jones1913]

The reality is that GNU / Linux / BSD like *NIX OS's are very good for specific server situations, including super computer applications. However, as a desktop OS they are all horribly broken. A desktop OS needs to do far more than a server OS. There is lots of reasons, most of them are found at http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com.au/ The intelligent and open and honest people involved in the free open source world know this too, and have contributed a fair bit of detail to sites like linux haters. Cudos to them for being objective, cos fixing weaknesses and problems is about "achieving the year of the desktop" that *NIX has been dreaming of for decades.

Windows is "horribly broken" too in some areas. The perfect OS does not exist.

The most articles on the blog you have linked dont look very serious to me. (even the blog title)
Like written from someone who is frustrated that things dont work on linux as he is used to from windows.

If I had written down all problems and inconsistencies encountered on windows systems over the years then I could probably fill a blog with 100s of pages too. :)

.......
Only some numbers: Top 50 Products By Total Number Of "Distinct" Vulnerabilities in 2015 (http://www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php?year=2015)
About W10: Microsofts Windows 10 Botnet (https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7291-microsofts_windows_10_botnet#video)
But anyway, even the hardware today has security flaws: Trustworthy x86 laptops? There is a way, says system-level security ace (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/31/rutkowska_talks_on_intel_x86_security_issues)
.......


Well... this is another long story - why Linux is not good for your desktop unless you are masochist... http://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html


Hehe a very compehensive list without exaggerations and whining, seems Im a masochist... :D

Tried ReactOS, would not boot, something about it not being able to find the Hive (registry).
Dont think it liked being installed on 2nd partition.
Well, had enough for now, maybe I'll have another go in a few days.
Still alpha stage he? :p

[manolito]

@ Nullack

Theres allot of sensationalism going on here. Im older than many of you, and have been involved professionally in systems level stuff for decades. I'm not a 20 year old geek who just discovered the wonders of GNU or whatever else in college.

So from your professional history I assume that you also must be a proven expert in system security...


Windows 10 has been certified for use in classified installations in many countries. In many countries, it is federally approved for sectors such as defence to hold various levels of classified data and systems. Including leading western worlds at high security clearance levels


Could you please backup these statements with some facts? Which countries? Which "leading western worlds at high security clearance levels"?


Fact is that you can find a lot of articles where public organizations and authorites give out warnings or have started investigations about the Win10 security.


12.10.2015
Companies and authorities reject the usage of Windows 10 currently from (Opinion of the Bureau Working Group on Data Protection and IT Security, September 2015)

Who installed Windows 10, so accepted the privacy policy from Microsoft that the manufacturer provide significant rights, especially if the installation is performed by using a Microsoft account. (1) In this privacy policy is explicitly pointed out that, depending on the services and features utilized a variety of data, including demographic data (eg age and gender), contacts and relationships, location data, contents of documents, photos, music or videos will be collected. (2) Under the terms of the service contract of the user occurs even in certain circumstances the rights to this information to Microsoft from.



The best Windows, so is Microsoft for version 10, which shipped since the end of July. At the same time hailing it criticism of the security, meanwhile, authorities in Germany, the Switzerland and Russia check whether the operating system with existing data protection legislation is compatible. The reason: The group who assumes the default privacy settings unchanged, gives access to many personal details.


These are ugly machine translations, you can find the original articles here:
http://www.e-recht24.de/news/datenschutz/2015-08-28-06-19-09.html
https://www.gi.de/index.php?id=97&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=1904&cHash=d52cb3b5e0d30a92805a6de9065733c8


Cheers
manolito

[smok3]

Actually I think Linux will get a fresh chance as desktop due to various reasons (steam would be one) and not exclusively due to ms update/spy policy. I do also think a nicely configured Linux WM beats OS X desktop/shell in many, many, many aspects.

That doesn't make it perfect desktop, but "desktop" definition varies by user anyway.

p.s. Don't try to get me into some OS flame war please, I don't care that much.
p.s.2. In any case, my future OS will have two things installed by default:
- 0 spying
- get updated when told

[pandy]

Hehe a very compehensive list without exaggerations and whining, seems Im a masochist... :D

Main problem is lack of standardization and as direct outcome Linux based systems are not considered as valuable market for HW vendors.
Classical example are 3D graphic cards but there is many similar examples...

I have opportunity to see Linux in embedded devices from two main vendors for consumer market- Intel and Broadcom (but not only). Those companies creating hardware and providing pre-configured Linux - nothing works correctly (truly), even USB (as outcome you ends with corrupted flash drives) - this is not even problem for binary blobs but general problem that Linux have severe limitations to be used as operating system in real time embedded devices even if from marketing perspective it is very tempty as this is free OS ready to be used but truth is more complex...

Good list for Linux problems http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

Actually I think Linux will get a fresh chance as desktop due to various reasons (steam would be one) and not exclusively due to ms update/spy policy. I do also think a nicely configured Linux WM beats OS X desktop/shell in many, many, many aspects.

Lack of good HW drivers prevent Linux to be good desktop OS.

[smok3]

That list, well, he is probably right about certain stuff, but the other 70% is questionable at least.

Lack of good HW drivers prevent Linux to be good desktop OS.

I wouldn't generalize that.

My 10 years old scanner is working just fine (out of the box, win7 don't have drivers for it), also my old wacom (out of the box). The canon selphy printer is a problem, actually cups seems to be hard to use < Just an example of things.

About video tearing, I have installed at least 10 Debian desktops and only one had uncurable tearing problems (and I have almost zero knowhow about xorg). Tearing seems to be a common problem on Win7 machines as well.

About documentation: Arch is said to have best wiki in the world.

About apache/php/mysql < My old ubuntuserver has gone to at least three dist-upgrades and I can't recall any involved manual reconfiguration, but that has nothing do with a "desktop" in the first place.

Stuff about case-sensitivity is just stupid.

I'll stop here.

And so on, basically probably most stuff in that article can be either overthrown or at least softened.

The problem for me is lack of Premiere/After effects like software, so I keep my OSX alive for now.

p.s. A much more interesting article from the same author
http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

[manolito]

p.s. A much more interesting article from the same author
http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

Thanks smok3 for this link, gives me a lot of ammo for discussions about Win10... :devil:

And Nullack should definitely read this article, too...


Cheers
manolito

[huhn]

let's have a look.
http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

Windows 10 is a beta quality release (at the time of writing, i.e. as for August, 2015):
Microsoft hides the information about Windows 10 updates, so oftentimes you won't even know what certain updates are aimed to fix or improve. Also Windows 10 updates may have unintended consequences and unannounced changes in behaviour (it's already been confirmed).
windows 10 exclusive?
Many users report that their sound card stopped working after upgrading to Windows 10.

the alpha got major problem with sounds cards most of them where realtek cards. windows 10 driver fixed this issue before the release of windows 10.

should microsoft now write audiocard driver?
new operation system new driver it is that simple.

Windows 10 updates/upgrade can send your PC into an infinite loop.

this is windows 10 exclusive and no source?
In certain cases Windows 10 may kill your display if you are an unlucky owner of a laptop made by Alienware, LG or Samsung.
see here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-nvidia-whql-drivers-are-killing-alienware-and-clevo-lcd-panels.779449/
***EVOLVING UPDATES WILL BE POSTED HERE***
Some people are coming here looking for help and answers. We cannot provide either one right now because we don't know why it is happening, but having to sift through unrelated discussions is not good for people looking for help. Short of reprogramming EDID information to the LCD EEPROM the display panels on the affected machines are ruined. Theoretically, it should be possible to fix them. From a practical perspective, it is beyond the skill set of most to attempt it, and buying a new display is the likely solution. Unfortunately, the problem may return and destroy the replacement display unless drastic measures are taken to eliminate the cause, which has been loosely identified as several of the latest GeForce drivers in combination with Windows 10 and/or fully updated Windows 10-ready systems.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-nvidia-whql-drivers-are-killing-alienware-and-clevo-lcd-panels.779449/

terrible issue of cause but highly unlikely the doing of the OS.

You've got no real control over crucial features of the OS:
let see.
Windows 10 will have no service packs which means it will always be a work in progress and you are a perpetual beta tester.

so because windows 10 is using new build instead of services packs it is a beta?

Forced upgrades you cannot opt out of (and Microsoft have borked quite a lot of them recently so prepare to see your Windows die after installing a new portion of updates - actually Microsoft has already borked one update, read horror stories about KB3081424).

you can opt out of it... i don't have to post one of these tools or?

Safe Mode has become impossible to access unless you've booted into ... the running OS which totally defeats its purpose. Also Safe Mode is hidden behind almost a dozen of steps vs. a single F8 key press on boot in every Windows version from 95 to 7.
uefi quick boot limitation. windows 8 supports uefi quick boot too. that's why it isn't listed here.

but there are "workarounds": http://www.digitalcitizen.life/4-ways-boot-safe-mode-windows-10

and it still works on windows 10 you just need an bios PC and a normal HDD and windows 10 will not boot to fast.

Windows 10 features terrible UI inconsistency, not limited to:
Two kinds of fonts antialiasing (ClearType v2 for classic applications and some awful dirty grayish shit for Modern apps).
All kinds of varying visual decorations and styles (some people have discovered up to seven varying styles in Windows 10).
Absolutely dissimilar classic and modern (PC settings) control panels.
Different fonts faces and sizes all around.
Different styles of settings for modern apps.
Absolutely different context menus and their appearance in different applications and apps.

Terrible hardly configurable appearance, dubious design choices and extremely limited functionality (vs Windows 7/XP):

Two Control Panels with absolutely zero thought given to how they differ and why each one should be used.
Some Control Widgets are spread between the two Control Panels which is utterly confusing (e.g. Users Management).
No Windows classic UI for windows decorations. Windows decorations can hardly be configured at all in Windows 10.
An awful choice of colors/palette.
some of it is a taste question but the control issue is true.

just try to change the speed of your mouse or disable mouse acceleration.
changing the refreshrate is "funny" too.
there are a lot more issue like this.

Absolutely awful, childish and amateurish icons as if we live in the era of 8bit displays (only rivalled by those in Windows 3.1 from 1992). Windows 2000 in 1999 looked better than Windows 10 in 2015.

http://itvision.altervista.org/files/windows-10-icons.png
where did he got that screen from? the beta?

the current icon are these: http://abload.de/img/whateverpqz84.png

you don't have to like them but they do there work.
calling this childish isn't really matured.
A big number of Windows 10 apps are still NOT on par with their classical counterparts from Windows 7/Vista/XP (many features are missing or many options are not configurable).

no example?
so maybe maybe not.

The start menu is an unusable abomination. Applications are listed as a list which is nigh impossible to scroll.

scrolling issue? this is working like every other window with an scrolling option.
and if you don't like scrolling you can click on 0-9 for example and choice the letter where you want to go...

Windows 10 sucks terribly if you are an unlucky user of a metered Internet connection:
there is a great update feature for metered internet connection. but yeah don't read it to an end i guess. i mean it has an extra option to send data over the internet so it is pure evil i guess.
It features huge mandatory system and apps updates (you cannot disable them, you can only postpone the system reboot after their installation).

i don't have to repeat that you can disable windows update.

As if it wasn't enough, Windows 10 gets downloaded automatically if you run Windows 7 or 8.1. We are talking about 3 gigabytes of data some people absolutely do not need.

yes a new build is over 3GB but see above.

It uses your free bandwidth to distribute updates to other users nearby you.

yeah great feature!

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/windows-update-delivery-optimization-faq

the local network feature is just awesome!

With Wi-Fi sense enabled anyone you have in your Skype, Outlook or Hotmail contacts lists — and any of your Facebook friends — can be granted automatic access to your Wi-Fi network as long as they're within range.

i can use a DMZ in my router and can give everyone full access to all my data on my PC. so my router is now evil? because i can do this?


A newly created user profile weighs over 300MB (!) while containing zero (!) information about the user.

this is more terrible than it sounds.

Hi

We're setting things up for you.

it does this for every new user: https://youtu.be/JqpCVJw0E7A?t=282

just amazingly stupid!

don't worry it does this for every new build too!

A newly created user profile is populated with all the default apps instead of giving the user a choice.

see above.

Microsoft has lost its mind and they now desperately try to foist/force Windows 10 on unsuspecting users. Oh, it's now official: they will forcefully install it everywhere they can in 2016.

this is a windows 7-8.1 issue not a windows 10 issue.

Thanks smok3 for this link, gives me a lot of ammo for discussions about Win10... :devil:

And Nullack should definitely read this article, too...


Cheers
manolito

i guess it is better to find your own bullets by using windows 10 than reading and quoting stuff like this. the internet is a very unreliable source...

you will find enough bullets by using it so don't worry. windows 10 is everything but perfect.

[pandy]

That list, well, he is probably right about certain stuff, but the other 70% is questionable at least.



I wouldn't generalize that.

My 10 years old scanner is working just fine (out of the box, win7 don't have drivers for it), also my old wacom (out of the box). The canon selphy printer is a problem, actually cups seems to be hard to use < Just an example of things.

About video tearing, I have installed at least 10 Debian desktops and only one had uncurable tearing problems (and I have almost zero knowhow about xorg). Tearing seems to be a common problem on Win7 machines as well.

About documentation: Arch is said to have best wiki in the world.

About apache/php/mysql < My old ubuntuserver has gone to at least three dist-upgrades and I can't recall any involved manual reconfiguration, but that has nothing do with a "desktop" in the first place.

Stuff about case-sensitivity is just stupid.

I'll stop here.

And so on, basically probably most stuff in that article can be either overthrown or at least softened.

The problem for me is lack of Premiere/After effects like software, so I keep my OSX alive for now.


Well in fact situation is even more complex - but allow me to disagree with Your opinion that we can't generalize - bad or faulty drivers are big issue in Linux world and if you add to this lack of standards (video, audio for example) you will end in CPU driven machine where literally millions of transistors are not used at all as HW acceleration is not used.

Linux to be desktop need standardization, some centralized body that will prevent atomization common in Linux world.
This must happen before attracting HW vendors and customers attention - without this Linux will stay OS for enthusiast not for mass user market.
I can't accept situation when i can't use expensive graphic HW as video HW acceleration not work and best approach is to use HW as dumb frame buffer.


p.s. A much more interesting article from the same author
http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html


Provided this link (original not redirected) here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1752273#post1752273


the alpha got major problem with sounds cards most of them where realtek cards. windows 10 driver fixed this issue before the release of windows 10.

should microsoft now write audiocard driver?
new operation system new driver it is that simple.


Isn't Microsoft requested WHQL to solve this problem? As such i don't get why suddenly this is an returning issue...

Once again - i've tried to be not biased by prejudice and installed 3 different Win 10 builds on some machines for example HP EB 6930p/8440p - and there was lot of problems preventing me to use such machines even for tests - from my perspective Windows 10 is early beta stage and personally i have no time to support Microsoft in testing as i don't like new Windows look and feel.

[smok3]

literally millions of transistors are not used at all as HW acceleration is not used.

Latest hardware will not work as it should (at least not on the 1st month) due to obvious conflict of interests (Commercial companies will not reveal their latest stuff on first day and similar, also 1% of market-share is not that interesting (to produce proper 3rd party blobs) = chicken and egg again).

But even if this 3rd party blobs were released, there is a bunch of users that would refuse to run that (yes, there is another non-technical point of view).

But you are being very vague, afaik gpu rendering works fine with Blender (but I will not claim, since I actually don't have 1st hand experience (both of my linux render-sheeps are pure cpu)), also nvidia h.264 decoding is playing nice with say mpv.

In Debian there is now pepper-flash which is supposedly working great with iceweasel, dunno about hw acceleration. < if we assume that youtube is an important part of desktop.

some centralized body
Why, you want another unity or gnome-shell unholiness? It is hard to imagine weekend programmers to work for "centralized bodies" of any kind, I certainly wouldn't. There is Ubuntu, Fedora if you wanna go that route, so vague again, plenty of things to pick.

[Chetwood]

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/32C3-Kryptologe-warnt-vor-dem-Botnetz-Windows-10-3057063.html

(Sorry the article is in German, but some participants in this thread are German, others have to use Google Translate)

Or they simply watch the video (https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7291-microsofts_windows_10_botnet#download) which also has an English track.

(This is where I stopped...)
May I ask why? Too hard to understand?
Or it already was enough BS for him to not want to switch?

I'm not quite sure what all the outrage is about. Why not just upgrade and stay on top of the privacy options provided in the UI?
Cause they are spread all over the system and turned on again with new updates and I don't have time to waste on this BS?

Im older than many of you, and have been involved professionally in systems level stuff for decades. I'm not a 20 year old geek who just discovered the wonders of GNU or whatever else in college.
Arguments from authority generally suck but this one is especially funny since you don't know sh!t about other people's age here.

[foxyshadis]

using avisynth(installing plugins) on windows 10 is a pain but there are workarounds to bad they are needed...

the new "security" settings on the C:\Program Files folder are just ridiculous.

It's been the same since Vista. I haven't installed it in the default folder since then, but aside from that there are so many ways to adjust the folder permissions that it shouldn't be a constant annoyance. Since avisynth will execute arbitrary code, maybe it's not a terrible idea to have some protection, but almost every third-party program will (including ones that install themselves in permission-free %appdata%, like Dropbox), so it's a lost cause already.

let's have a look.

Basically every complaint seems to come from the pre-release, and ignores everything that was fixed or dialed back in the final release. I have a few complaints, but by and large it feels like a solid improvement over every version of Windows to me. But then, I'm not exactly the customer of a thread about avoiding it at all costs.

[pandy]

Latest hardware will not work as it should (at least not on the 1st month) due to obvious conflict of interests (Commercial companies will not reveal their latest stuff on first day and similar, also 1% of market-share is not that interesting (to produce proper 3rd party blobs) = chicken and egg again).

But even if this 3rd party blobs were released, there is a bunch of users that would refuse to run that (yes, there is another non-technical point of view).

But you are being very vague, afaik gpu rendering works fine with Blender (but I will not claim, since I actually don't have 1st hand experience (both of my linux render-sheeps are pure cpu)), also nvidia h.264 decoding is playing nice with say mpv.

In Debian there is now pepper-flash which is supposedly working great with iceweasel, dunno about hw acceleration. < if we assume that youtube is an important part of desktop.


Why, you want another unity or gnome-shell unholiness? It is hard to imagine weekend programmers to work for "centralized bodies" of any kind, I certainly wouldn't. There is Ubuntu, Fedora if you wanna go that route, so vague again, plenty of things to pick.

First shot http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=win10-nv-ubu1504&num=1

Add to this increased power consumption for Linux...
I understand that this is related to drivers quality but... with lack of standardization Linux will be never sufficiently attractive as mainstream desktop OS.

Niche for enthusiast for sure it is more than OK but real hardcore enthusiasts not using GUI at all - txt console (remote terminal) is all they need.

If you can create standardization without centralized point - fine for me... but this not happen and that's why Linux will be never considered as desktop OS.

Side to this there is many other things directly affecting Linux desktop experience...

[Nullack]

I’m super busy so I don’t have much time to respond but suffice to say on the questions asked:

1. What Microsoft is doing is really not substantively different to what Apple or Google are doing with cloud, with targeted advertising etcetc
2. People should know that what is posted on the internet is not formally vetted by qualified persons. There is even statements from the flat earth society on the internet, who believe our planet is flat…..And specifically with Windows 10 these suggestions the OS is spying on all your local files is just absurd. That’s tin foil hat conspiracy nutter talk. The reality is that Microsoft is under intense scrutiny from not only nation states (especially in Europe who have a history of being anti MS) but also privacy advocates and similarly issue motivated groups.
3. Simple steps can be made to turn off systems aspects for privacy conscious users. It isn’t hard to publically look up for example what nation states are doing to configure their windows based systems to handle sensitive information, or indeed federally classified information. Like simply going to the Australian Signals Directorate’s website and looking at the unclassified version of their recommended security controls (http://www.asd.gov.au/infosec/ism/) would provide basic info on stuff like, don’t upload to the cloud, only stick with approved Cipher suites, make sure to retain ownership and access control of all classified data etcetc
4. I get the point that there is no perfect OS. But to suggest that cos Windows has issues, that its more or less the same level of desktop experience as the Linux desktop, really isn’t a true comparison. The only viable desktops are MacOS and Windows. Linux desktop is a bug ridden user experience that has all sorts of problems beyond the thing its good at – Linux is good at command line server stuff. Just look at the fragmentation in the graphics stack and it’s an architectural mess from X, wayland, gnome, KDE, ubuntu’s stuff….Free open source video drivers are effectively useless for real work and the propertiary binaries from AMD and Nvidia receive stuff all attention next to their Windows counterparts. Video acceleration under Linux is a convoluted and confusing mess of configs and bugs. X is fundamentally broken for modern times and various factions on how to fix it for the modern world is full of arguing camps who despite being very few people, cant seem to work together on a common architecture and have implemented feature incomplete and immature code in their own little patch as distinct groups.

Cheers guys

[Chetwood]

1. What Microsoft is doing is really not substantively different to what Apple or Google are doing with cloud, with targeted advertising etcetc
Hey, look. Other's are behaving as jackasses too!

[huhn]

there are issues with windows in general and there are new issues with windows 10.

there is nothing wrong to be against these issues.

but these "windows 10 suxxs why" lists are filled with a lot of outdated nonsense and this doesn't help anyone.

[smok3]

If I knew nothing, I'd conclude from this thread that all 3 are evil/sucks (Win, OSX, Linux), which is probably the most politically correct conclusion.