Virtualdub Capturing and Huffyuv Errors

[Spades45]

I'm trying to digitize my VHS tapes. I'm capturing over S-Video from an LG DVD/VHS player combo. I'm capping DVD output at the moment just while I set things up but I don't think that matters. I'm having a number of problems:

1) Capture format settings default to 720x576 or something and I can't edit them. When I access that menu no matter what I select -- even the settings it defaults to -- when I click OK I get this error:
VirtualDub Error: The capture device does not support the selected video format.

2) Despite all of this it seems to capture fine. Driver is installed and I can see the display in Virtualdub. But the captured .avi files do not load into Handbrake, and do not display any video when played through MPC-HC. Audio plays back just fine.

These two problems lead me to believe it's an issue with my capture card's driver, it doesn't appear to be "talking" to Virtualdub correctly. How can I troubleshoot / debug this? I'm using a Huappauge WinTV-PVR-150. I also have a knockoff EasyCap but I'm afraid that USB 2.0 will bottleneck it, or maybe it will overheat and result in artifacting. Who knows maybe I'll have driver issues with it too (I use it with an Android device currently)

3) Compression.

Video compressor error: The source image format is not acceptable (error code -2)




Huappauge WinTV-PVR-150
Intel Core 2 Duo E6750
ASUS P5N-E SLI
2GB RAM
4GB pagefile set on primary HDD
Writing to a secondary, storage-only 7200rpm HDD with 16MB cache.

fresh install of Windows 7 with all critical updates installed
CCCP + all relevant drivers installed
VirtualDub 1.10.4

I'm sure you need more information but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[Spades45]

well after some heavy Googling I discovered that my Hauppauge card isn't compatible with 64-bit OS so I formatted and installed 32-bit Windows 7

did some reading on the forums which lead me to Magicyuv so i'm now using that instead of Huffyuv.



Unfortunately, video capture is still not working properly. I have no idea what is wrong, the video appears fine in Virtualdub but the "format" it's in is incompatible and no change of settings seems to change that. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Music Fan]

I have the same card, I don't remember it worked with Virtual Dub. I use an old driver to make it work with Virtual VCR (the capture stops directly with more recent drivers) and I capture in Lagarith yuy2 (and I use it on XP 32 bits, I never tried this card on Win 7 64).
There is just a little header problem about framerate in the avi (detected as 29.97 fps while it's 25 fps) that can be corrected easily with Virtual Dub ; go in video, framerate, source rate adjustment, change framerate to and put 25, then save in direct stream copy mode.

In Virtual VCR, in the filters part, select the Hauppauge filter, click on add and check use pre filtering.

[Spades45]

I have emailed Hauppauge and I'm hoping they can provide me with a fix and perhaps an older version of the driver. I may have to dig up my old XP license key and give that a shot.

I cannot get a signal in VirtualVCR either. Man this is a PITA.

[Music Fan]

I have emailed Hauppauge and I'm hoping they can provide me with a fix and perhaps an older version of the driver.
Don't dream, I would be very astonished if they send it to you, especially if you explain them that your aim is to use another capture program than the one they gave with the card (WinTV).
But I can send it to you if you want.

I cannot get a signal in VirtualVCR either. Man this is a PITA.
That's maybe due to a bad setting in VVCR. Or did you try it with Windows 7 ?
We will find a solution (if you are sure your card does still work) ;)

[Spades45]

I would greatly appreciate if you could send me your driver. I installed XP today and I'm getting the same errors.

I'm sure the card works since I can get an image in VirtualDub I just can't record it.

I saw a post on the Adobe forums (searching for a fix for another unrelated issue) basically saying that Hauppauge cards don't follow MPEG standards and thus oftentimes produce files that are... difficult.

Thanks for the help I really appreciate it.

If it doesn't work with your driver I'm throwing the Hauppauge card in the garbage where it belongs and buying either an Osprey® 100e or a Grass Valley ADVC110, although I'm trying to avoid spending $200 if I can :) (and unless anyone has any other suggestions for a capture card)

my gmail is democraticjunk or maybe you could upload it to mediafire? thanks in advance

[Music Fan]

Here it is ;
https://www.sendspace.com/file/swhp1m
I copied all the files that concern the driver on the cd, because there are a lot of other tools you probably don't need (scheduler, web radio ...).
There is a setup.exe file but I'm not sure you have to use it, you can install the driver the other way : in Windows device manager, click on the card, search driver and install it from the folder where you put it.
You may need to install WinTV just to create the video and S-video channels. Otherwise, I don't know if VVCR will find them.
Tell me if it works, otherwise I will see how it's supposed to be installed.

[Spades45]

I really appreciate the help. Even with your driver I cannot capture video. It displays but does not capture in VirtualDub. In VVCR it displays a red signal.


At this point I think it's time to cut my losses and get another capture card. My EasyCap doesn't work either. I'd rather spend money than more time on this.


I can get an ATI TV Wonder 650 for $30 on eBay, drivers readily available on AMD website, and I don't see many complaints on forums. I'm going to go with that. My only other options, as far as I can tell, are the Osprey 100e and the Grass Valley ADVC110.


Osprey 100e - $180 - idk but it looks professional and i can return it if it doesn't work
Grass Valley ADVC110 - $180 - again idk but it looks good and i can return it, supposedly doesn't need drivers.

[Asmodian]

Are Blackmagic devices not an option? I use my Blackmagic Intensity Pro with VirtualDub to capture s-video from a VCR, it works very well.

However, I understand the ATI TV Wonder 650 is a good option too, and it is a lot cheaper. :)

[Music Fan]

Before buying another card, there are still some points to verify.

Even with your driver I cannot capture video. It displays but does not capture in VirtualDub. In VVCR it displays a red signal.
Does your card work with WinTV (when you install everything needed : driver, mpeg encoder, wintv) ?
Did the installation of the driver I gave you work ?
Did you set correctly VVCR (as I explained a few days ago and selecting the good video channel) ?

Do the other cards you are speaking about support lossless yuy2 capture, as the PVR-150 ?

[DrP]

The PVR 150 is a hardware MPEG/2 encoder card. In one version of the driver it was possible to get decoded raw frames out of it, but it's really pushing up hill.

It's intended to produce MPEG/2 in program or transport streams, so use it to do that. I have working 32 bit drivers as well as a command line utility (gbrecord derived from gbpvr) to dump the output to a file if anyone is interested.

The 64 bit drivers do work but due to crappy implementation by Hauppauge they will only work as long as Windows does not have access to RAM above the 4Gb mark. The card can only do 32 bit DMA, but double buffering (the part Hauppauge can't wrap its head around) or forcing DMA buffers to be allocated from RAM below 4Gb (another thing Hauppauge don't understand) would make it work in any 64 bit Windows configuration.

[Music Fan]

The PVR 150 is a hardware MPEG/2 encoder card. In one version of the driver it was possible to get decoded raw frames out of it, but it's really pushing up hill.

It's intended to produce MPEG/2 in program or transport streams, so use it to do that.
:confused:
There is no reason to restrain possibilities while lossless capture is possible.

[DrP]

:confused:
There is no reason to restrain possibilities while lossless capture is possible.

Possible eh? From the post above, perhaps not so possible.

If frame grabbing is desired, use a device that is intended for that purpose. If hardware encoding is desired, use a device that is in intended for that purpose.

If people want to beat their head against a brick wall trying to make a turnip into a pineapple, who am I to stop them.

The offer still stands. I have software to run the card as it is intended to be. Anyone that wants it is free to contact me.

[Asmodian]

If frame grabbing is desired, use a device that is intended for that purpose. If hardware encoding is desired, use a device that is in intended for that purpose.

If people want to beat their head against a brick wall trying to make a turnip into a pineapple, who am I to stop them.

The offer still stands. I have software to run the card as it is intended to be. Anyone that wants it is free to contact me.

While I agree that trying to get that card to output RAW video might be more trouble than it is worth I cannot condone capturing anything in consumer grade hardware compressed MPEG2. :p

[Music Fan]

Possible eh? From the post above, perhaps not so possible.
What post ? If you read mine, you see that it is possible because that's how I use this card. And that's not complicated at all.
If Spades45 wants to use mpeg-2 hardware encoding, he can use WinTV, but it does not seem to be his purpose.

[DrP]

While I agree that trying to get that card to output RAW video might be more trouble than it is worth I cannot condone capturing anything in consumer grade hardware compressed MPEG2. :p

Fair comment, but the card will go up to 15Mbit/sec (it'll produce higher rates but the quantiser has already topped out at 15) and for most purposes that's going to be pretty good as an editing source.

Using the card to do frame grabbing introduces everyone's bugbear - audio skew / drift / desync. Its MPEG-2 output stays in sync for ever and a day.

[Music Fan]

I don't have desync. Do you have this card ?

[Spades45]

Before buying another card, there are still some points to verify.


1) Does your card work with WinTV (when you install everything needed : driver, mpeg encoder, wintv) ?
2) Did the installation of the driver I gave you work ?
3) Did you set correctly VVCR (as I explained a few days ago and selecting the good video channel) ?

4) Do the other cards you are speaking about support lossless yuy2 capture, as the PVR-150 ?



1) Yes, I was able to get WinTV installed from the package that the Hauppauge CS rep sent me. I can capture to .mpg from this software.
2) No, I couldn't get it to work.
3) I am pretty sure I did yes. No setting I try in VVCR or VirtualDub works/sticks. If I change resolution it just sets itself back to 720x480. Everything else produces an error.
4) I have no idea.

Just to verify, I am on Windows XP 32-bit now, and with 2GB of RAM so that should not be a problem. The Hauppauge CSR warned me of the 4GB issue.




The PVR 150 is a hardware MPEG/2 encoder card. In one version of the driver it was possible to get decoded raw frames out of it, but it's really pushing up hill.

It's intended to produce MPEG/2 in program or transport streams, so use it to do that. I have working 32 bit drivers as well as a command line utility (gbrecord derived from gbpvr) to dump the output to a file if anyone is interested.

The 64 bit drivers do work but due to crappy implementation by Hauppauge they will only work as long as Windows does not have access to RAM above the 4Gb mark. The card can only do 32 bit DMA, but double buffering (the part Hauppauge can't wrap its head around) or forcing DMA buffers to be allocated from RAM below 4Gb (another thing Hauppauge don't understand) would make it work in any 64 bit Windows configuration.Possible eh? From the post above, perhaps not so possible.

If frame grabbing is desired, use a device that is intended for that purpose. If hardware encoding is desired, use a device that is in intended for that purpose.

If people want to beat their head against a brick wall trying to make a turnip into a pineapple, who am I to stop them.

The offer still stands. I have software to run the card as it is intended to be. Anyone that wants it is free to contact me.

In case I can only get the Hauppauge card to capture mpeg2, should I just get another card? If so can you recommend one?

[Music Fan]

1) Yes, I was able to get WinTV installed from the package that the Hauppauge CS rep sent me. I can capture to .mpg from this software.
Ok, thus the card is not broken.
Don't forget to create the channel(s) you need with WinTV (Ntsc video*, Ntsc S-video, Pal video, Pal S-video, Secam video ...).
* = CVBS

2) No, I couldn't get it to work.
That's the problem ; if you succeed in make it work, VVCR should work too.
Did you try to install it from Windows device manager ? Right click on the card, install driver, search the folder I gave you. Is there an error message ("didn't find firmware in this folder") ?
If yes, I will verify how it can be installed.
Stupid question : didn't you forget to unzip the file I gave you ?

I use VirtualVCR 2.6.9 (the last version) on XP 32 bit ;
http://www.videohelp.com/software/VirtualVCR

[Spades45]

I figured it out! Had to play with the settings in VVCR some more.
These are the settings that were holding me back!
http://i.imgur.com/TZErp7g.png
http://i.imgur.com/e2uJeWB.png

Does this mean for sure that it's a pure framegrab and not MPEG2 encoded by my card?

Here's the mediainfo:
General
Complete name : I:\vvcr cap (2015-11-02 at 22-11-02).avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 1.93 GiB
Duration : 1mn 42s
Overall bit rate : 161 Mbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : YUV
Codec ID : YUY2
Codec ID/Info : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration : 1mn 38s
Bit rate : 166 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Compression mode : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 16.000
Stream size : 1.91 GiB (99%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 1mn 42s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Delay relative to video : 8ms
Stream size : 17.3 MiB (1%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 499 ms (14.96 video frames)


Now let's talk VirtualVCR settings.

Here are the settings in VirtualVCR I'm not sure about. I don't know what I need to set them to or if they're even relevant for capping VHS. Should I bump up the bitrate for higher quality? Anything else I could tweak?


http://i.imgur.com/miD2fBP.png
http://i.imgur.com/VepZuZ4.png
http://i.imgur.com/JEWvzs8.png
http://i.imgur.com/8vYv9Vd.png
http://i.imgur.com/MiVVk3a.png



regardless, capture stats look good! What does it mean .750 Video Compression?
http://i.imgur.com/2LxA06x.png



thank you thank you thank you!

[Music Fan]

I figured it out! Had to play with the settings in VVCR some more.
Great. Did it work with my old driver ? Because I couldn't make VVCR work with other drivers.

These are the settings that were holding me back!
http://i.imgur.com/TZErp7g.png
You can also choose the same device for the audio line.
For video source, I select the channel (S-Video).

Does this mean for sure that it's a pure framegrab and not MPEG2 encoded by my card?
Yes, it is the role of the Hauppauge filter used by VVCR.
Here is an avisynth function that shows that there is no compression with this filter (one see blocks when there is compression) ;
Histogram(mode="luma")

Video
ID : 0
Format : YUV
Codec ID : YUY2
Codec ID/Info : YUV 4:2:2 as for UYVY but with different component ordering within the u_int32 macropixel
Duration : 1mn 38s
Bit rate : 166 Mbps
It seems you don't use any compression, you can use Lagarith which works very well and will decrease the bitrate.
Set Lagarith's properties correctly : uncheck RGB and choose yuy2 in the scrolling list ;
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Lagarith_config.png
I believe you can check other options.

http://i.imgur.com/miD2fBP.png
Do not select "use custom settings", select "use compression" and choose Lagarith or another lossless codec.

http://i.imgur.com/VepZuZ4.png
Select 720 for horizontal resolution, but it's maybe not important as you don't select custom settings.

What does it mean .750 Video Compression?
I don't know, maybe the compression's ratio (75 % of the uncompressed bitrate), admitting there is still a little compression, even when no codec is selected.

If you have to convert to YV12 (to make mpeg or h264 for dvd or Avchd), use avisynth (I believe it will do it better than Virtual Dub's filter) with this function ;
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
Remove interlaced=true if you de-interlace your video.
In this case, and if you want to save it in lossless before compressing in mpeg, open the script in Virtual Dub and go in video, color depth, select 4:2:0 planar on the left and "same as ..." on the right.
But do it after filtering (it's better to filter yuy2).
If you save it in Lagarith, don't forget to change the color depth in Lagarith's properties (YV12 instead of YUY2).

[DrP]

I don't have desync. Do you have this card ?

Nah. I only have the drivers and intimate knowledge of how the card works for the fun of it.

"DUH".

[Spades45]

http://i.imgur.com/weKyhZP.png

This is the driver version I am using. I believe it is from the package the hauppauge tech support guy emailed me which is available here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlfmqvhahxqszuz/WinTV%206%20CD.zip)

I am still not sure if changing this does anything. I want maximum possible quality.
http://i.imgur.com/ppDGaz7.png

The Hauppauge card does not appear as an audio input in VVCR, but that is okay because the line-in on my motherboard's soundcard works perfectly.

http://i.imgur.com/oyzoXNo.png
However when using the sound card it is absolutely necessary to uncheck the resample audio box! Otherwise the audio will become distorted. To test for desync I captured my The Dark Knight Rises DVD. When resampled the voices were comically slower and lower-pitched. Michael Caine's voice was probably the funniest.

http://i.imgur.com/JzRlkEn.png
6 dropped frames in 2.5 hours I'm totally worried! jk :D :D :D
You are the man Music Fan, couldn't have done it without you!





I am using MagicYUV for lossless compression. Lagarith decodes very slowly and I've read about frames being corrupted inexplicably.

http://i.imgur.com/p5xcj5b.png

this shouldn't matter since I am going to de-interlace in Vdub/Avisynth after capturing, right? I'm going to re-read the guide on the main site because I actually haven't read it since starting this thread and I've forgotten most of it...


VHS is 4:3 and always interlaced correct? my VHS player has these options and I'm not sure what I should set them to.

http://i.imgur.com/1kL2gTM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HldLcrA.jpg * you can notice the menus look clearer with Progressive Scan on but I don't know if it will improve quality or not with VHS.
http://i.imgur.com/z5pov2K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4iNVIRN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/R9gPTPY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jai2bYu.jpg

Will I get better quality with an S-VHS unit even if I only have standard VHS tapes? What about a Time Base Corrector? These are home videos I'm capturing so I'd like to have the highest quality possible since I'm going to get rid of the VHS tapes and player(s) to make space. (Don't worry they will be on a local RAID array as well as a cloud backup)

[Music Fan]

The Hauppauge card does not appear as an audio input in VVCR
Astonishing, are you sure you can't select it in the scrolling list ?

I am using MagicYUV for lossless compression. Lagarith decodes very slowly and I've read about frames being corrupted inexplicably.
I never had problem with Lagarith, while I had with HuffYUV, thus I never tried other lossless codecs.

this shouldn't matter since I am going to de-interlace in Vdub/Avisynth after capturing, right?
As it is supposed to improve compression, let's check "interlaced".

VHS is 4:3 and always interlaced correct?
Yes, but anamorphic 16/9 is possible on VHS if you copy an anamorphic 16/9 Dvd from a Dvd player set on 16/9 (as if it was connected to a 16/9 screen to prevent the Dvd player to add black borders to get 16/9 LetterBox).

my VHS player has these options and I'm not sure what I should set them to.

you can notice the menus look clearer with Progressive Scan on but I don't know if it will improve quality or not with VHS.
I guess it's a dvd/VHS combo.
I'm not sure these options may affect VHS, you have to see if the result is different when selecting 16/9 instead of 4/3, progressive instead of interlaced ...
Anyway, the analog video output is interlaced in most cases but I would avoid to check progressive to be sure nothing is done by the VCR.
I don't know what is "vocal" but don't check it.

Will I get better quality with an S-VHS unit even if I only have standard VHS tapes?
Yes, if it has a S-video output which is useful for VHS too, as explained in this post ;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1647143#post1647143

What about a Time Base Corrector?
It's better with it, but the result can be worse when not set correctly.
It's expensive but you can find TBCs in dvd recorders (or some of them) ; I use a Philips DVDR-70 between the VCR and the capture card, it really improves quality with some tapes.


Something else to know about PVR-150's drivers (maybe not all) : the sound is boosted while it shouldn't, there is a trick to correct it but I have not managed to make it work correctly (it changed the volume of the left channel but not the right, IIRC), look at this page which also shows other tricks ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105149/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_reg.html

with Hauppauge Tweak Tool ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105219/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_tweak.html

or without (thus manually in the registry) ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105149/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_reg.html#_Change_recording_volume_%28of_tuner%29

But this is not a huge problem with most of VHS whose sound is far below 0 db.

[Spades45]

Yes, if it has a S-video output which is useful for VHS too, as explained in this post ;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1647143#post1647143


It's better with it, but the result can be worse when not set correctly.
It's expensive but you can find TBCs in dvd recorders (or some of them) ; I use a Philips DVDR-70 between the VCR and the capture card, it really improves quality with some tapes.

keeping good picture quality is important to me but i'm not sure a TBC is within my realm of possibility. i don't know where to find one and if i did i don't know how to work it. i will pick up a super vhs and if i run into any problems i will look at a TBC, but if i don't run into any problems i think the s-vhs will be good enough. i'm more worried about time degradation of the actual tapes themselves, at this point.


Something else to know about PVR-150's drivers (maybe not all) : the sound is boosted while it shouldn't, there is a trick to correct it but I have not managed to make it work correctly (it changed the volume of the left channel but not the right, IIRC), look at this page which also shows other tricks ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20061108105149/http://www.cask-of-amontillado.com/pvr_reg.html

i think this is not a big deal and can always change with the volume dial or even in post-production if absolutely necessary. i'd rather have it too loud than unbalanced left to right, or too quiet.



for VHS-C i have the adapter where you put the VHS-C in a regular VHS unit. for Hi8 i picked up a camcorder at Goodwill for $5 which has an S-video output -- is this the same quality as a Digital8 camcorder? or should I get a digital8 for conversion? for miniDV i still have the camcorder, just need to grab a firewire cable for it.

thanks in advance

[Music Fan]

i'm not sure a TBC is within my realm of possibility. i don't know where to find one and if i did i don't know how to work it.
As I said, dvd recorders also include TBCs, probably not as good as professional standalone TBCs but quite good. But don't use it as recorder of course, just place it between the VCR (or the camcorder) and the capture card.

for Hi8 i picked up a camcorder at Goodwill for $5 which has an S-video output -- is this the same quality as a Digital8 camcorder? or should I get a digital8 for conversion?
As your capture card supports yuy2 lossless, analog to DV (lossy and yv12) conversion is not a good idea, the result won't be as good.
That's why I bought a Hi8 camcorder recently and not a Digital8 to digitize old analog tapes.

[Spades45]

As I said, dvd recorders also include TBCs, probably not as good as professional standalone TBCs but quite good. But don't use it as recorder of course, just place it between the VCR (or the camcorder) and the capture card.

ah i missed that part. how can i tell if my dvd recorder has a TBC?


As your capture card supports yuy2 lossless, analog to DV (lossy and yv12) conversion is not a good idea, the result won't be as good.
That's why I bought a Hi8 camcorder recently and not a Digital8 to digitize old analog tapes.

so camcorder over S-Video straight into capture card is the way to go?

[Music Fan]

ah i missed that part. how can i tell if my dvd recorder has a TBC?
Making tests, or looking at the manual, hoping it's specified.

camcorder over S-Video straight into capture card is the way to go?
Yes, and don't forget to create a S-video channel and select it in VVCR.

[Spades45]

Making tests, or looking at the manual, hoping it's specified.


any chance you could point me to what types of tests i would make?

thanks again, you're awesome

[Music Fan]

Just testing with and without dvd-recorder : I saw real differences between the two methods with some tapes, the video was much more stable, especially with Secam VHS (a french format close to PAL), but also with PAL.
Look at this picture to compare ;
http://forum.videohelp.com/images/guides/p1525899/tbc.jpg

My HI8 camcorder has a built-in TBC that can be disabled but I let it activated, the video looks quite stable. For my next tests, I will see if I need to use dvd-recorder's TBC or if camcorder's is enough.