Alliance for Open Media codecs [Archive] - Page 4

Jamaika

18th January 2017, 14:00

This is not important, what is the basis? This may suggest that changing the name VPX on AOM. However, the contents of the files is very modified and you can no longer suggest that VP10 was base.
https://aomedia-review.googlesource.com/#/c/1008/
As regards Daala. The truth is that a handful of fixes is like one bigger patch to month. I'm afraid that Daala will not have a significant effect on the development of AV2. Unless, development Daala is out of open source technologies.

Quikee

19th January 2017, 21:35

Latest presentation about AV1 (mainly daala tech.) at LCA2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPaldsmJbk

AV1 bitstream freeze will be in October 2017

iwod

20th January 2017, 03:31

Latest presentation about AV1 (mainly daala tech.) at LCA2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzPaldsmJbk

AV1 bitstream freeze will be in October 2017

So that is a further delay. Looking likely to see it pushed into 2018.

Quikee

20th January 2017, 13:42

So that is a further delay. Looking likely to see it pushed into 2018.

Well.. that's the first delay (for AV1). First deadline wasn't really realistic considering that most of the experiments didn't play together yet (VP10 experiments - the nextgen2 branch was merged not too long ago) and some experiments aren't in a state to evaluate them (PVQ).

CruNcher

21st January 2017, 11:54

Apart from the Mobile space then i see Intel and Nvidia with first Hardware ready in late 2018.
Lot of time for HEVC to flourish tough and x265 to further improve it's overall Psy Layer if the acceptance for H.264 still stays high enough it could go well if x264 by then gets overrolled @ 4K completely it will be much harder and progress on H.266 is also gonna start with a total Psy focus, though well still have to see how Trump will impact all of this.

mandarinka

22nd January 2017, 01:51

3yrs? pffft. Google and lots of other companies are working on this, development will be much faster than x265 has been. Hardware decoders for mobile will likely be ready in early 2018 and hardware decoders for pc in late 2018. I expect that in early 2019 the encoder will be good enough to replace x264, x265 and vp9.

It's as littlepox said. Google and friends ganging up won't really do some miracle in providing a high quality encoder - this has always been hard work for multiple years.

Google itself has shown with VP8's and VP9's treatment in libvpx that they basically either can't or don't care to provide high quality encoder software.

The role of other subjects that are adding into the project now is still to be evaluated, but while they will help, again you can't expect miracles (look how slowly has Daala progressed since 2010, only to find out that their proposed techniques in the end can't be made to work, in many cases. And look how much "too little, too late" has there been over the many years of theora development).

I think that the three years estimate might even be optimistic given how disappointing has libvpx been for these 7.5 years that Google has owned On2 for.

CruNcher

22nd January 2017, 15:59

Vp10 isn't disappointing in anyways it is very competitive overall vs MPEG

wiak

24th January 2017, 03:13

It's as littlepox said. Google and friends ganging up won't really do some miracle in providing a high quality encoder - this has always been hard work for multiple years.

Google itself has shown with VP8's and VP9's treatment in libvpx that they basically either can't or don't care to provide high quality encoder software.

The role of other subjects that are adding into the project now is still to be evaluated, but while they will help, again you can't expect miracles (look how slowly has Daala progressed since 2010, only to find out that their proposed techniques in the end can't be made to work, in many cases. And look how much "too little, too late" has there been over the many years of theora development).

I think that the three years estimate might even be optimistic given how disappointing has libvpx been for these 7.5 years that Google has owned On2 for.
Theora was just a fix/cleanup for VP3 (Xiph)
VP8 and VP9 are pretty good compared to AVC and HEVC (Google)
Daala still is a research project (Xiph/Mozilla)
Thor is Cisco's pet project

AOMedia consolidates VP10, Daala, Thor technologies to create a new codec and a new platform to develop AV1 and future codecs from Xiph, Mozilla, Google, Cisco and a boatload of other companies have joined

to make it clear, AOMedia doesnt only seem to be Google, Google has done some good stuff like creating WebM (Restricts Matroska to VP8/VP9 with Opus/Vorbis only)

WebM/VPx was ruled by a iron-fisted Google
AOMedia is probably more of a non-american democracy

just think back, how it was in the old days, Theora was pretty average/bad

my thoughts

Jamaika

24th January 2017, 06:04

Google has done some good stuff like creating WebM (Restricts Matroska to VP8/VP9 with Opus/Vorbis only)
For me it's just another container. Google didn't want to have anything to do in the MOV container. Now Apple is in the team, so I expect that, and MOV will be under codec VPX / AOM. WebM is a simple container. Why additionally created a container to everything from WebM to Mastroska? Probably for legal reasons.
Certainly had an impact on the implementation of Matroska to video editors and home appliances. Nothing else.
What to implement the HDR function. WebM get a patent from the Adobe DNG and for what JpegXT. Codec IVF is packaged in next container WebM and already. This isn't a new idea. Less fortunate has WebP.

mzso

24th January 2017, 12:37

Google has done some good stuff like creating WebM (Restricts Matroska to VP8/VP9 with Opus/Vorbis only)

This makes me wonder. Will they have an officially supported extension/container for AV1? Or will they just leave the situation as bad as it is, with a bunch of entities having their own preferred containers?

Quikee

24th January 2017, 13:33

This makes me wonder. Will they have an officially supported extension/container for AV1? Or will they just leave the situation as bad as it is, with a bunch of entities having their own preferred containers?

They'll most likely extend WebM (or they already did actually as aomenc already outputs WebM with AV1) . Probably they'll want to extend MP4 too (like they did it for VP9 (Netflix) and Opus).

dapperdan

24th January 2017, 14:49

For me it's just another container. Google didn't want to have anything to do in the MOV container. Now Apple is in the team, so I expect that, and MOV will be under codec VPX / AOM.

I don't think Apple has publicly announced anything about AOM, has it?

wiak

24th January 2017, 14:57

They'll most likely extend WebM (or they already did actually as aomenc already outputs WebM with AV1) . Probably they'll want to extend MP4 too (like they did it for VP9 (Netflix) and Opus).

this is how webm is
WebM v1 aka VP8/Vorbis
WebM v2 aka VP9/Opus

in the future it will probably look like this

WebM v3 aka AV1/Opus

the preferred container for av1 is webm as the encoder and decoders has a muxer and demuxer built in already

you can still put it in matroska, mov, and other containers, but webm has a much better compatibility guaranteed than other containers, its much closer to mp4 which only has AVC/HEVC with AAC audio etc
:stupid:

Jamaika

24th January 2017, 15:44

you can still put it in matroska, mov, and other containers, but webm has a much better compatibility guaranteed than other containers, its much closer to mp4 which only has AVC/HEVC with AAC audio etc
:stupid:
As regards the work codec webm it better preserves parameters of converter ffmpeg codec than the VPX / AOM. I don't know why it is like that.
As regards the codec HEVC. In the Magix Vegas 14 codec Intel HEVC is in MOV container.;)

PS Even half a year ago it was added to the VPX codec MOV. Now is blocked and the problem solved.
Sam codec AV1 IVF currently can't be added to the Matroska container.
I don't think Apple has publicly announced anything about AOM, has it?
VP9 only supported in MP4.:eek:
VP9 in MP4 support is experimental, add '-strict -2' if you want to use it. That may change in a month.;)

ffmpeg.exe -i input.mov -f mp4 -c:v libvpx-vp9 -vb 2000k -strict -2 output.mp4

At one time the user RBO wrote two articles about the construction of codecs in containers VP9 / AV1. Unfortunately I don't received information, will codecs vpx be implemented in MP4Box?

Nintendo Maniac 64

30th January 2017, 02:31

I don't think Apple has publicly announced anything about AOM, has it?

No, Apple has not seeing how Apple is not listed on here:

http://aomedia.org/about-us/

Jamaika

30th January 2017, 07:19

In the press from the previous year was just a suggestion:
While this collaboration falls far short of Apple joining the Alliance for Open Media, it does signal that the two companies can work together effectively. It also indicates that Apple, long and publicly intransigent on MPEG DASH, is willing to contribute to new standards that benefit the common good. Will Apple join the Alliance? “We’ve been talking to a lot of companies, and recruiting definitely isn’t our challenge," Gabe Frost said. "The hard part is the engineering effort, taking the next step, and driving contributions through the open source project.”

bstrobl

30th January 2017, 16:30

Google has stopped encoding 4k videos in h264, leaving Safari users on Mac OS without that option. VP9 is still impacting battery life though so my guess is Apple will start shipping AV1 decoders once bitstream is frozen. Implementing VP9 now would be a bit pointless and Apple has been sticking with h264/AAC for a rather long time, hence they will most likely want the same ROI on the next set of codecs.
Joining the AOM now might just completely break down support for HEVC as well since Apple is one of the final large holdouts not shipping consumer devices with VP9. Not sure if Apple wants to do that or if they are bound by agreements with the MPEG LA not to relicense their patents to others. At this stage they are probably just waiting for AV1 to be complete and then making a decision.

sneaker_ger

1st February 2017, 13:36

Google has stopped encoding 4k videos in h264
That is not true. (Example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geZWqWfMcpM))

bstrobl

1st February 2017, 18:41

That is not true. (Example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geZWqWfMcpM))

Nope, 1440p max on Safari.

sneaker_ger

1st February 2017, 19:38

It's still encoded and available (e.g. via youtube-dl) as 3840x2160 H.264. I don't know about Safari.

dapperdan

3rd February 2017, 13:51

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/94956965

An overview of AOM from last year. Mostly old news and a recap, though in response to a question they do mention that AV1 is not the final name for the codec.

Also justifies some of Youtube/Google's design decisions around sending video to people in countries where the CPU available is higher than the bandwith.

mandarinka

6th February 2017, 00:13

Slides from FOSSDEM (https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/om_av1/attachments/slides/1704/export/events/attachments/om_av1/slides/1704/av1_update.pdf)

(from http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AV1-Codec-FOSDEM-2017 )

wiak

6th February 2017, 00:21

Clare

6th February 2017, 12:52

iwod

6th February 2017, 14:10

And the presentation from FOSDEM:

http://video.fosdem.org/2017/K.3.401/om_av1.mp4

Slides are gone, any backup link?

mandarinka

6th February 2017, 22:19

Slides are gone, any backup link?

https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/om_av1/attachments/slides/1795/export/events/attachments/om_av1/slides/1795/av1_update.pdf

iwod

7th February 2017, 03:41

https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/om_av1/attachments/slides/1795/export/events/attachments/om_av1/slides/1795/av1_update.pdf

That is literally no news in the slide. :(

And it is hasn't pass IP test, I can bet the bitstream wont be frozen until next year. It is good they didn't rush it. But another year for HEVC to gain.

Let's just hope Apple hold off HEVC for another year.

hajj_3

7th February 2017, 04:25

It is good they didn't rush it. But another year for HEVC to gain.

No-one is adopting h265. Only broadcast and ultra hd bluray are using it. Almost no digital cameras record in h265 even though there have been hardware encoders for years for mobile devices. AV1 shall be the king for many years on the web. We really could do with safari adding support for vp9 though in the meantime.

Jamaika

15th February 2017, 12:29

I post up to date links of development on github aomenc.c and aomanalyzer.c
https://github.com/mbebenita/aomanalyzer
https://github.com/brion/aomedia

Blue_MiSfit

15th February 2017, 19:19

No-one is adopting h265. Only broadcast and ultra hd bluray are using it. Almost no digital cameras record in h265 even though there have been hardware encoders for years for mobile devices. AV1 shall be the king for many years on the web. We really could do with safari adding support for vp9 though in the meantime.

Well... that's not really true. All the major OTT streaming providers are doing 4k using HEVC. It's a big deal to high end consumers because it enables HDR!

CruNcher

16th February 2017, 11:25

enabling HDR hasn't so heavy requirements at all most of the HDR requirements are rather on a higher level like when to enable HDR and when not if detected that it is HDR content, it's more the clean management of it inside the Device architecture.
Hollywood has higher requirements hence they want foremost artistic control of it to manipulate it to their liking to get certain emotional feedback from the viewer from it.

That's also why it was rather Simple for Samsung to adapt their Tizen Software/Hardware stack to support it fast for VP9, the most complex thing in HDR is how efficient it works together with the PQ and how clean it is percepted in the end from the output Device and the acquisition of it :)

MisterXDTV

18th February 2017, 13:56

No-one is adopting h265. Only broadcast and ultra hd bluray are using it. Almost no digital cameras record in h265 even though there have been hardware encoders for years for mobile devices. AV1 shall be the king for many years on the web. We really could do with safari adding support for vp9 though in the meantime.

??? broadcasts, discs and streaming services like Netflix and Vudu are using HEVC for UHD (HDR)

Actually I don't get why we need yet another codec, VP9 is brand new and it's just starting to be supported on hardware. VP9 Profile 2 (10/12 bit + HDR) is even newer

AV1 seems to be late to the party IMO

mandarinka

18th February 2017, 18:46

??? broadcasts, discs and streaming services like Netflix and Vudu are using HEVC for UHD (HDR)

Actually I don't get why we need yet another codec, VP9 is brand new and it's just starting to be supported on hardware. VP9 Profile 2 (10/12 bit + HDR) is even newer

AV1 seems to be late to the party IMO

VP9 is quite a bit worse than HEVC, so compression improvements are welcome.

beastbg8

18th February 2017, 18:59

Can somebody provide me 480p, 720p and 1080p AV1 video samples? I can't find any on the internet. Thanks in advance.

Quikee

19th February 2017, 00:06

Can somebody provide me 480p, 720p and 1080p AV1 video samples? I can't find any on the internet. Thanks in advance.

Well, currently AV1 bitstream changes daily and depends on the experiments you enable in the encoder. So what do you want to do with them?

beastbg8

19th February 2017, 01:27

Well, currently AV1 bitstream changes daily and depends on the experiments you enable in the encoder. So what do you want to do with them?

I just want to test how well it plays on my hardware.

Nintendo Maniac 64

20th February 2017, 01:33

VP9 is brand new

VP9 had its first release before HEVC.

HEVC started development before VP9 though.

benwaggoner

22nd February 2017, 00:06

I just want to test how well it plays on my hardware.
You aren't going to learn much that's useful yet about how a final version would work on your hardware, or would work on then-current hardware when it's released.

Jamaika

24th March 2017, 07:12

New current link to aom codecs. Authors every month change the location of the link on the github. I also see that this year the project was abandoned ffmpeg-Daala.
https://github.com/atomnuker/aom

New Java Web AV1 Bitstream Analyzer
https://medium.com/@mbebenita/av1-bitstream-analyzer-d25f1c27072b#.ug6h3g1rb

Trends to Watch at NAB 2017
http://www.studiodaily.com/2017/03/five-4kuhd-trends-to-watch-at-nab-2017/
AV1 is scheduled to be finalized in Q4 2017, meaning a solid preview of its capabilities should be on display at NAB.
Everything is cool, but at present I don't see the use of hevc or av1 codecs in the cameras. Nor do I know what is meant by new camera HDR. After all, there are cameras with S-log3 or other color matrix settings.

Quikee

24th March 2017, 10:00

New current link to aom codecs. Authors every month change the location of the link on the github.

Jesus F. Christ - the developers are making private clones on github to work on the code (and for other developers to see the changes). It is better to avoid any of this as developers update with main repository when they need to and who knows what experimental modification they performed. If you want to check AV1 you always need to get the code from the AV1 main repository (https://aomedia.googlesource.com/aom/). This code was reviewed and is always the most up-to-date.

I also see that this year the project was abandoned ffmpeg-Daala.

No wonder as all the work shifted to AV1 and daala won't be finished..

New Java Web AV1 Bitstream Analyzer
JavaScript Web AV1 Bitstream Analyzer

Jamaika

31st March 2017, 06:31

LAVvideo decoder doesn't play AOM codecs. Even after registration with Windows 10. I mean 10bit movies.
http://tmod.nmm-hd.org/LAVFilters/
Work only aomdec.

Quikee

31st March 2017, 18:40

LAVvideo decoder doesn't play AOM codecs. Even after registration with Windows 10. I mean 10bit movies.
http://tmod.nmm-hd.org/LAVFilters/
Work only aomdec.

In the other news: nobody has yet won a gold medal at 2018 Winter Olympics.

Jamaika

31st March 2017, 20:52

In the other news: nobody has yet won a gold medal at 2018 Winter Olympics.
Maybe crap, but someone reads and improves in the next version.
http://tmod.nmm-hd.org/LAVFilters/LAVFilters-0.69-16-av1_test21-git-r3822%28737da5f%29.7z

bstrobl

1st April 2017, 09:57

IETF 98 Meeting is up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dQIEisqHtQ

GTPVHD

19th April 2017, 23:58

https://bitmovin.com/bitmovin-supports-av1-encoding-vod-live-joins-alliance-open-media/

Another company joins the Alliance.

wiak

25th April 2017, 07:37

https://bitmovin.com/bitmovin-supports-av1-encoding-vod-live-joins-alliance-open-media/

Another company joins the Rebel Alliance.
fixed it for you
:stupid:

blurred

29th April 2017, 06:45

Some optimistic benchmarks: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/aom-av1-vs-hevc-marc-clement

blurred

29th April 2017, 06:49

Optimistic benchmarks from Elecard: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/aom-av1-vs-hevc-marc-clement

Jamaika

30th April 2017, 14:05

Elecard provides support of AV1 implemented in our flagship product - StreamEye. (https://www.elecard.com/news/elecard-provides-support-of-AV1)
Difference between AOM AV1 and HEVC (https://www.elecard.com/page/aom_av1_vs_hevc)
Results of Elecard's latest benchmarks of AV1 compared to HEVC (https://www.elecard.com/news/results-of-elecards-latest-benchmarks-of-av1-compared-to-hevc)

https://www.elecard.com/products/video-analysis/streameye