View Full Version : StaxRip
detmek
26th April 2015, 16:18
Right, Avisynth is not supported. But MeGUI uses Avisynth+ portable (or at least it shows that).
Here is MeGUI log:
[Warning] Log
-[Warning] Versions
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] MeGUI: 2534
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] Operating System: Windows 7 x64 SP1 (6.1.65536.7601)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] .NET Framework: 4.0 (4.0.0.0)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] .NET Framework: 4.5.x (4.5.51209)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] AviSynth: 2.6.0.6 (31-03-2015) (inactive)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] AviSynth+ portable: 2.6.0.5 (02-01-2014) (active)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] AvisynthWrapper: (02-01-2009)
--[Warning] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] Haali Matroska Splitter not installed properly.
--[Warning] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] Therefore DSS2() and certain functions of FFVideoSource() and the HD Streams Extractor may also not work.
--[Warning] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] Please download and install it from http://haali.su/mkv/
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] Haali DSS2: 2.0.0.10 (13-01-2013)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib: 0.85.5.452 (07-08-2008)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] MediaInfo: 0.7.73.0 (09-04-2015)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] MediaInfoWrapper: 0.7.61.0 (06-01-2013)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] MessageBoxExLib: 1.0.2218.28317 (19-12-2008)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] SevenZipSharp: 0.64.3890.29348 (02-01-2011)
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] 7z: 9.20 (18-11-2010)
-[Information] Update detection
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] Using cached update config and server: http://megui.tmebi.de/test/
--[Information] [4/26/2015 5:13:40 PM] No package requires an update
And inside avs folder (MeGUI tools) there is avisynth.dll which, when you click on properties, it shows Avisynth+ 2.6 as Product name.
This way you can ship any version of Avisynth+ you want with Avisynth+ compatible plugins and avoid forcing people to install Avisynth+ x64 if they need to use regular Avisynth or AvisynthMT for compatibility with some plugins or scripts.
stax76
26th April 2015, 16:31
I can only guess what AviSynth portable does, I suspect in involves feeding the encoder via pipe, this works very well and is the only way to use x265, even if there is no real benefit I favor encoders opening avs instead using piping.
noee
26th April 2015, 17:09
I used the AviSynth+ r1576 installer (make sure you install 32 and 64-bit) and then I manually replaced the respective files using the updated build from here (https://cloud.pados.hu/index.php/s/0e0d5588307a7b0474742711731699b6?path=%2Fr1779-MT-release). 32-bit avisynth.dll and devil.dll go in the SysWOW64 folder, 64-bit goes in the System32 folder. Also replace the core plugins in the AviSynth autoload folder with the included plugins.
Really you don't need all these plugins for it to work, QTGMC() with all default settings only needs MVtools2, MaskTools2, RemoveGrain/Repair, and NNEDI3. Some of the other plugins like NNEDI, NNEDI2, EDDI2 can be considered deprecated. SSE2Tools is only used to process YUY2, it's closed source and the author is no longer around so we won't see a 64-bit version of that (this is probably a good thing, it was just an ugly hack anyways).
Anyways you can download the core plugins here:
MaskTools2 (https://github.com/tp7/masktools/releases)
MVTools2 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1718402&postcount=1054)
RgTools (https://github.com/tp7/RgTools/releases) - includes RemoveGrain, Repair, and VerticalCleaner
NNEDI3 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=170083)
How is this mvtools2 compiled? Fails on my old AthlonII. Illegal instruction when calling MAnalyze (QTGMC line 415).
Reel.Deel
26th April 2015, 17:25
How is this mvtools2 compiled? Fails on my old AthlonII. Illegal instruction when calling MAnalyze (QTGMC line 415).
I think it was compiled with Intel Parallel Studio XE 2015 Composer Edition for C++.
stax76
26th April 2015, 18:55
Here is a new build for those who had problems with onedrive:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7a4i25ef1otedkx/StaxRip_1.3.0.2_alpha.7z
1.3.0.2 alpha
Added xvid_encraw 1.2.0.0
DivXH265 encoder added
AVSMeter stays open when finished
15 plugins are now integrated
I don't know yet what is causing the arithmetic overflow, it's not happening on my system.
stax76
26th April 2015, 23:09
This fixes the Win8/Win10 crashes:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xiyz10pghli8pvf/AAB3k0Dg-TRF-vh6srbITYDBa?dl=0
I had to install Windows 10 and Visual Studio using wmware player to track it down.
Unfortunately nnedi3 and TIVTC also crash on Win8/Win10, someone should make a bug report if these plugins are still maintained.
stax76
27th April 2015, 01:47
It's approaching beta. :)
1.3.0.3 alpha
Fixed Win8/Win10 crash
Added AviSynth+ v0.1.0 r1779 installer
http://www.mediafire.com/download/0u4028jkjwkk6ja/StaxRip_1.3.0.3_alpha.7z
NikosD
27th April 2015, 09:14
It would be helpful to update the first post too, especially whenever you do version updates.
stax76
27th April 2015, 09:33
Yes thanks
Hey everybody,
I've ported StaxRip to 64-Bit, I tried to maintain a 32-Bit version but it showed that it would be too much work to build, too much work to maintain, that it would have too many potential problems and too much complexity. Keeping 32-Bit would have meant spending half my time just for this and making only half the progress in the future. If necessary there will be a 32-Bit maintenance release.
The newest build can be found here:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/0u4028jkjwkk6ja/StaxRip_1.3.0.3_alpha.7z
The only known bug is a ffmsindex.exe (ffms2) memory leak, l-smash can be used instead like so:
Tools/Settings/Filter/default > LWLibavVideoSource
Don't forget to install AviSynth+ 64-Bit, it can be found in the Tools directory.
luigizaninoni
27th April 2015, 10:36
just wish to confirm that now avisynth+ installs totally fine on windows 8.1 and that encoding and basic plugins work too (tried only a few). Very good results in a very short time, Stax76 !
stax76
27th April 2015, 10:43
Luigi, thanks for testing and confirming.
luigizaninoni
27th April 2015, 13:37
Managed to get QTGMC to work.
avs file:
LoadPlugin("C:\Users\luigi.TZMS\Desktop\Video\Staxrip64\Tools\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\Users\luigi.TZMS\Desktop\burosch1 temp files\burosch1.d2v")
QTGMC( Preset="Slow" , TR2=3 , EZDenoise=0.65).SelectEven()
Put MaskTools2, MVTools2, RgTools, NNEDI3 (as downloaded from Reel.deel post) into C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth+\plugins64+ folder
If you want EZdenoise, put in same folder also fft3dFilter.dll, and put libfftw3f-3.dll into c:\windows\system32 folder (both downloaded from here: https://code.google.com/p/avisynth64/wiki/PluginLinks )
Well I can't explain how it works, given that Nnedi3 plugin should not work in windows 8.1; however the nnedi3.dll in avisynth+ folder is different from the one in Staxrip64\Tools\Plugins\nnedi3 so who knows ....
Have not tested speed yet; tonight I'm going to do speed comparison vs. staxrip32 and report back
dejong12
27th April 2015, 14:19
I get this error when trying to encode with NVEnc x264 and not selecting crop:
Error Encoding using NVEncC
Encoding using NVEncC failed with exit code 1
Invalid crop value.: 0x0, Crop [0,0,0,0]
StaxRip.ErrorAbortException: Encoding using NVEncC failed with exit code 1
Invalid crop value.: 0x0, Crop [0,0,0,0]
bij StaxRip.Proc.Start() in C:\Daten\Projekte\GitHub\staxrip\General\Proc.vb:regel 226
bij StaxRip.NvidiaEncoder.Encode(String args) in C:\Daten\Projekte\GitHub\staxrip\General\VideoEncoder.vb:regel 892
bij StaxRip.NvidiaEncoder.Encode() in C:\Daten\Projekte\GitHub\staxrip\General\VideoEncoder.vb:regel 882
bij StaxRip.MainForm.Encode() in C:\Daten\Projekte\GitHub\staxrip\Forms\MainForm.vb:regel 2231
bij StaxRip.MainForm.RunJobRecursive() in C:\Daten\Projekte\GitHub\staxrip\Forms\MainForm.vb:regel 3493
luigizaninoni
27th April 2015, 14:24
Stax76, just mailed to your address the nnedi3.dll I put into avisynth+ plugins64+ folder. The other nnedi3.dll is the one contained in your installer. The two files are different.
stax76
27th April 2015, 14:29
@dejong12
The hardware encoders with GUI don't work at the moment because the 64-Bit encoders don't support avs input, I'm waiting for a answer or update from the author. There is a CLI encoder included that can be used meanwhile.
@luigizaninoni
Thanks, I'll try it when my encode finishes (also using QTGMC).
luigizaninoni
27th April 2015, 17:54
made some tests.
First of all there is a problem with Crop filter: autocrop definitely does not work. Error message:
Crop: Destination width is 0 or less.
(E:\Tolta pubblicità\prova temp files\prova.avs, line 3)
Second, I made a SD and HD test. The HD looks fine, much faster and same quality as Staxrip32
The SD test however is puzzling: speed is actually higher in Stax32 (not multithreaded) than Stax64.
I definitely need to perform some more tests.
stax76
27th April 2015, 18:20
First of all there is a problem with Crop filter: autocrop definitely does not work.
It works here on Win10, I just tried, maybe specific to a particular source?
luigizaninoni
27th April 2015, 18:26
no, autocrop filter did not work on any file I tried. They were all .ts though
stax76
27th April 2015, 18:33
avc ts by default should be first muxed to mkv before it's opened, for this StaxRip should have ask you to install haali splitter.
mpeg-2 ts is handled by DGMPGDec (DGIndex/DGDecode) by default.
kalehrl
27th April 2015, 19:28
Added xvid_encraw 1.2.0.0
Why not the latest 1.3.3?
stax76
27th April 2015, 20:03
Why not the latest 1.3.3?
I couldn't find a x64 build.
stax76
28th April 2015, 15:30
@kalehrl
Next build has XviD 1.3.3 and a additional XviD 2 pass profile.
"%app:xvid_encraw%" -smoother 0 -max_key_interval 250 -nopacked -vhqmode 4 -qpel -lumimasking -notrellis -max_bframes 1 -bvhq -bquant_ratio 162 -bquant_offset 0 -threads 1 -i "%avs_file%" -pass1 "%working_dir%%target_name%.stats" -bitrate %video_bitrate% -par %target_sar% -turbo
"%app:xvid_encraw%" -smoother 0 -max_key_interval 250 -nopacked -vhqmode 4 -qpel -lumimasking -notrellis -max_bframes 1 -bvhq -bquant_ratio 162 -bquant_offset 0 -threads 1 -i "%avs_file%" -pass2 "%working_dir%%target_name%.stats" -bitrate %video_bitrate% -par %target_sar% -avi "%encoder_out_file%"
Patman
28th April 2015, 15:51
Thats great Stax. I've found xvid_encraw 1.3.3 x64 too. And i think the pipe option caused the error. Because of the search, it was a short night :-D
stax76
29th April 2015, 09:51
The nnedi3 problem happens only in vmware so QTGMC works on Win8 and Win10.
Next StaxRip release will have:
ffms2 is fixed
NVEncC and QSEncC are reverted to use piping with ffmpeg
StaxRip 64-Bit will use a different settings then StaxRip 32-Bit, currently the settings are shared which is problematic. I guess it's possible to use AviSynth 2.6 32-Bit side by side with AviSynth+ 64-Bit
Did I miss any problem or is everything solved then? The port would be complete then and could be released as beta.
luigizaninoni
29th April 2015, 11:13
Autocrop of .ts still not solved (autocrop of .mp4 works fine)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2189315/Comuni%20a%20tutti%20i%20PC/Incensurato%20cercasi_StaxRip.log
Crop: Destination height is 0 or less.
(C:\Users\luigi.TZMS\Desktop\Incensurato cercasi temp files\Incensurato cercasi.avs, line 4)
stax76
29th April 2015, 13:40
Can you upload this source, I probably can't do something but want to keep the file in case I start AviSynth programming, unfortunately AutoCrop as far as I know hasn't a maintainer (not sure about it).
luigizaninoni
29th April 2015, 14:12
uploaded 1 minute clip:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2189315/Comuni%20a%20tutti%20i%20PC/Incensurato%20cercasi.ts
Stax64 is still usable, you can always find the correct crop with some other software, and then manually edit the avs script
stax76
29th April 2015, 17:01
it's DGDecode failing to decode in Win8 and Win10, Win7 is fine. Take a look in the preview, everything is green! Use this workaround:
in the settings on the demux tab make this changes:
add projectx (use add button)
move projectx above DGIndex (use up button)
remove m2v extension from DGIndex (use edit button)
now you are good, open a source, sit down a minute and try to understand how all this works, study the log file
you can always find the correct crop with some other software, and then manually edit the avs script
is there any software with a more comfortable and powerful manual cropping dialog then StaxRip? I doubt so! Press F1 in the crop dialog, always use mousewheel together with control and shift key.
stax76
29th April 2015, 17:25
What I don't get is why is the preview of the script in StaxRip and MPC all green and AutoCrop don't work but still x264 encodes it all fine.
luigizaninoni
29th April 2015, 18:16
now ts autocrop works fine, thanks a lot!
stax76
29th April 2015, 19:56
this handles only mpeg2 however, for avc you should enable dsmux
luigizaninoni
29th April 2015, 21:01
yes, thanks very much for pointing out; now encoding AVC ts as well, gave no error message so I think it works (encoding not finished yet though)
NikosD
30th April 2015, 07:29
When you release the next version, add to the first post what StaxRip x64 supports, all the basic features and what features are not supported compared to x86 version.
Also the known bugs of StaxRip x64 and the differences of implementation for the same features supported by x86 would be useful too.
Can we work and compare the two versions together at the same time on the same system ?
stax76
30th April 2015, 08:07
When you release the next version, add to the first post what StaxRip x64 supports, all the basic features and what features are not supported compared to x86 version.
Also the known bugs of StaxRip x64 and the differences of implementation for the same features supported by x86 would be useful too.
I'll improve the first post, yes.
Can we work and compare the two versions together at the same time on the same system ?
Yes, when you first start the next release you'll see this:
http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/40679/fb69a4406789096.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/fb69a4406789096)
burfadel
30th April 2015, 14:01
Stax, in case you miss it:
Avisynth+ r1825 http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1719768#post1719768
stax76
30th April 2015, 15:36
:thanks:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/hvnjb8wy54ys7gl/AviSynth+_v0.1.0_r1825-MT.exe
Should I include all plugins needed for QTGMC? nnedi3 alone is 13 MB.
luigizaninoni
30th April 2015, 16:07
imho a large download is no problem at all. I mean, we are not talking of gigabytes ...
NikosD
30th April 2015, 17:28
The new INDE 2015 Update 2 includes new MSDK as well, with API v1.15 documentation, mainly about HEVC encoding of Skylake.
So, it's official:
Skylake supports HW H.265 encoding.
Release notes:
https://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/managed/48/ce/mediasdk_release_notes.pdf
luigizaninoni
1st May 2015, 11:36
Finally got Avisynth+ multithreaded working properly
I am impressed with the speed improvement:
My usual encoding (mpeg2 .ts --> staxrip64 --> qtgmc x265-10bit) single threaded speed was about 7fps
With multithreaded about 18 fps
CPU usage went up from about 35% to nearly 100%
Really didn't expect such an improvement
stax76
1st May 2015, 22:29
Hey everybody, here is a new release I was working on:
1.3.1.0 beta
Added QTGMC, masktools2, mvtools2, RGTools and nnedi3
Added new AviSynth editor
Added new macros: fps, fpsnum, fpsden, temp_file is now everywhere used where previously %working_dir%%target_name% was used
Added DGDecIM integration
Added 'Hardware Encoder' resize filter to AviSynth filter profiles which does nothing with AviSynth but enables the Quick Sync resizer
Added option to audio context menu to play audio together with the AviSynth script
Added possibility to use different settings directories for StaxRip 32-Bit and StaxRip 64-Bit
Added x265 options --qpstep and --qg-size
Updated ffms2 which fixes a critical memory leak
Updated AVSMeter to version 2.0.0
Updated AviSynth+ to version v1825
Updated XviD to v1.3.3
Updated x265 to v1.6+298
Updated hardware encoders supporting 64-Bit avs reading
Enabled dsmux to handle any kind of TS
Improved frame rate detection by using fpsnum and fpsden parameters on FFVideoSource and LWLibavVideoSource instead of AssumeFPS which did not work with some interlaced sources
Forced subtitles from DVDs are now added automatically but only if the forced subtitle is the language of the current locale and maximum one forced subtitle is added and the subtitle is added with a forced flag
http://www.mediafire.com/download/daxdakah0n71hpu/StaxRip_1.3.1.0_beta.7z
It handles all TS with DSMux which is a experiment, before DGDecode was used but 64-Bit DGDecode don't work on Win8/Win10, this also means VOB files cannot be opened, it's anyway better to rip with MakeMKV and open mkv. There are probably other methods to process VOB, maybe it's time to retire DGMPGDec altogether.
NikosD
1st May 2015, 23:43
I think I'm going to try that version probably against x86.
But why did you change the working directory ?
It was a good way to avoid writing to SSD (C: ), I have all my files to D:\ (HDD)
I didn't see a new version of QSVencC to rigaya's site.
Did he add AVS support to x64 versions ?
stax76
2nd May 2015, 00:18
But why did you change the working directory ?
You mean settings directory? It is necessary that StaxRip64 uses a different settings directory then StaxRip32 because the settings are not compatible. In case you mean the macro change, it resolves to the same directory, the new %temp_file% resolves to exactly the same as %working_dir%%target_name% which was used in many scripts and command lines, it's much shorter and simpler now.
Did he add AVS support to x64 versions ?
I wrongly assumed both don't do x64 but in reality only nvencc was lacking it.
burfadel
2nd May 2015, 06:58
@stax76
Thanks for the new build!
HOWEVER :)
How come you are using qaac 32-bit in Staxrip64, when there is a 64-bit available? Without thinking I installed the 64-bit required application support, and wondered why it was still saying it wasn't installed (as it was expecting the 32-bit version).
The archive containing the 32-bit and 64-bit versions is here:
https://github.com/nu774/qaac/releases/download/v2.47/qaac_2.47.zip
The latest 64-bit application support is just as easy to get as the 32-bit :). The filenames have changed though, they're all the same except with 64 on the end (such that it is qaac64.exe).
Thanks!
stax76
2nd May 2015, 07:54
@stax76
Thanks for the new build!
HOWEVER :)
How come you are using qaac 32-bit in Staxrip64, when there is a 64-bit available? Without thinking I installed the 64-bit required application support, and wondered why it was still saying it wasn't installed (as it was expecting the 32-bit version).
The archive containing the 32-bit and 64-bit versions is here:
https://github.com/nu774/qaac/releases/download/v2.47/qaac_2.47.zip
The latest 64-bit application support is just as easy to get as the 32-bit :). The filenames have changed though, they're all the same except with 64 on the end (such that it is qaac64.exe).
Thanks!
I believe I was looking for 64-Bit Apple Application Support and only found people writing that it's 32-Bit only, it would be helpful to get some info as private message, I can release a pre-release fixing this then.
burfadel
2nd May 2015, 08:10
I believe I was looking for 64-Bit Apple Application Support and only found people writing that it's 32-Bit only, it would be helpful to get some info as private message, I can release a pre-release fixing this then.
There is a separate 64-bit installer to the 32-bit installer. The people saying it is 32-bit only are, how can I put this? looking in the wrong place?
I'll PM you the info.
Patman
2nd May 2015, 08:16
Hi Stax,
thanks for the new release. I saw that mkvtoolnix is 32-bit and not 64-bit. I changed to 64-bit and everything works well so long. L-Smash was updated to version 785
L-Smash Works Download (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3i81ttxf028m1eh/AAABkQn4Y5w1k-toVhYLasmwa?dl=0)
burfadel
2nd May 2015, 08:27
Hi Stax,
thanks for the new release. I saw that mkvtoolnix is 32-bit and not 64-bit. I changed to 64-bit and everything works well so long. L-Smash was updated to version 785
L-Smash Works Download (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3i81ttxf028m1eh/AAABkQn4Y5w1k-toVhYLasmwa?dl=0)
Yeah, for the official 64-bit mkvtoolnix, you have to scroll a little further down the page for mkvtoolnix-amd64-7.8.0.7z
https://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/
the pre folder contains newer beta versions.
Mkvtoolnix can just be directly replaced, the filenames and commands etc are the same. I was actually using the 64-bit version (along with the 64-bit version of ffmpeg) with the 32-bit Staxrip (it allowed running the 64-bit application from it).
burfadel
2nd May 2015, 08:53
There is a separate 64-bit installer to the 32-bit installer. The people saying it is 32-bit only are, how can I put this? looking in the wrong place?
I'll PM you the info.
PM Sent :). Hope it made sense!
Lupissimo
2nd May 2015, 09:17
Just tested this new version. There is still the problem, that when one uses "select even" to change a 50fps ts.file to 25fps and after that edit the movie with cutting, the audio files are still "on 50fps" and therefor the output is only half of the length.
stax76
2nd May 2015, 09:58
There is a separate 64-bit installer to the 32-bit installer. The people saying it is 32-bit only are, how can I put this? looking in the wrong place?
I'll PM you the info.
Thanks for the links, I made all changes including description for qaac in the applications dialog:
qaac is a command line AAC encoder frontend based on the Apple AAC encoder. qaac requires libflac which StaxRip includes and it requires AppleApplicationSupport64.msi which can be extracted from the 64-Bit iTunes installer using the context menu within the 7zip file manager.
There is however a problem with qaac 64-Bit, the command shell window pops up and StaxRip don't receive any output, I don't think I can do anything here other then report it to the author which I already did, waiting for a reply now.
thanks for the new release. I saw that mkvtoolnix is 32-bit and not 64-bit. I changed to 64-bit and everything works well so long. L-Smash was updated to version 785
L-Smash Works Download
Good to know it works, when there is a new mkvtoolnix release I'll use the 64-Bit version.
I'll update l-smash-works, thanks for the hint.
Mkvtoolnix can just be directly replaced, the filenames and commands etc are the same. I was actually using the 64-bit version (along with the 64-bit version of ffmpeg) with the 32-bit Staxrip (it allowed running the 64-bit application from it).
Using the same filenames is IMO the best approach, 32-Bit StaxRip using 64-Bit ffmpeg is a bad idea, look at one of the current defaults:
"%app:ffmpeg%" -i "%avs_file%" -f yuv4mpegpipe -pix_fmt yuv420p - | "%app:NVEncC%" --sar %target_sar% --codec h265 --y4m --cqp 36 --input - --output "%encoder_out_file%"
Most people will use the NVEncC GUI, the nice thing about this profile is it teaches people that piping is possible and simple, ffmpeg interfaces with AviSynth here (loading the AviSynth library via COM+), 64-Bit applications can only load 64-Bit libraries (at least without black magic).
Just tested this new version. There is still the problem, that when one uses "select even" to change a 50fps ts.file to 25fps and after that edit the movie with cutting, the audio files are still "on 50fps" and therefor the output is only half of the length.
I think the problem is people often forget to change the frame rate before cutting, there is a simple solution, just change the frame rate after the trim functions and not before! If you have real 50 fps and not just duplicated frames it's no problem to encode it with 50 fps, it doubles the encoding time but file size goes only up like 10%, you get much smoother motion for this 10%.
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2db1378.jpg
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