Slysoft has broken Cinavia

[RedFox 1]

I just read the story here

http://www.myce.com/news/slysoft-removes-cinavia-signal-from-blu-ray-movies-with-anydvd-hd-and-clonebd-combination-75695/


This is the real deal, big news for our communities.

[Groucho2004]

Did you listen to the before/after example audio clip? The processed audio is completely bolloxed. Very obvious even with these short samples.

[RedFox 1]

Did you listen to the before/after example audio clip? The processed audio is completely bolloxed. Very obvious even with these short samples.

This is done on the fly, the watermark is bypassed, the uploaded file must be bad, the real audio is excellent, when you say Bolloxed, what do you actually mean? Because I do not hear anything but excellent quality.

[Groucho2004]

I downloaded the file "comparison.ac3" and listened to it. Horrible artefacts and some weird phasing effect.

when you say Bolloxed, what do you actually mean?
Irish slang (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bolloxed).

[RedFox 1]

Did you listen to the before/after example audio clip? The processed audio is completely bolloxed. Very obvious even with these short samples. Its very hard to really make a decision based on that file, I had an issue downloading the Ac/3 file but I heard it in .mp3 and I seriously cant tell the difference.

[RedFox 1]

I downloaded the file "comparison.ac3" and listened to it. Horrible artefacts and some weird phasing effect.


Irish slang (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bolloxed).

I would like to reserve my decision until I hear something that I processed myself, I do not hear what you do, but what I did hear sounded fine. I think we need a larger sample, they are amazing developers over there and I doubt they would release something with the type of audio you are describing. jmho.

[Groucho2004]

I seriously cant tell the difference.
Try with good headphones.

[Taurus]

Groucho2004 is right.
The ac3 sample sounds terrific. Hollow and phase distorted.
Better take it off from your website before someone comes along
and blame you for incompetence.....
Wow, what a mess.
The mp3 sample sounds the same.

[Groucho2004]

The ac3 sample sounds terrific.
I'm rather sure that you meant terrible. :D

[RedFox 1]

I'm rather sure that you meant terrible. :D

wait for a bigger sample than 3 seconds, you guys are quick to judge a 3 second sample

[Groucho2004]

wait for a bigger sample than 3 seconds, you guys are quick to judge a 3 second sample
That sample is all I could comment on. Looking forward to more samples.

[RedFox 1]

That sample is all I could comment on. Looking forward to more samples.

You can try it for free, CloneBD is a never ending trial ( with watermark), and AnyDVDHD is a 21 day trial. I am not spamming Slysoft, I just thought this community would be interested in a new break through. No its not freeware.

[Ghitulescu]

I still believe that the only real cinavia devense is to keep the old gear as long as they resist Chronos.
And since we are anyway talking about copies, to use alternative players (like mediaplayers). True, many of them have cinavia if they have to support BD menus, but I franky do not need them.

[Chetwood]

This is the real deal, big news for our communities.
Not really. All players I own completely ignore Cinavia.

[hello_hello]

Not really. All players I own completely ignore Cinavia.

Agreed. Only a very small percentage of Bluray video contains Cinavia (of all the Bluray video released I think the total is still in the low hundreds) and it's really only a problem when using a Bluray player inflicted with Cinavea detection. Or maybe a Bluray compliant software player, but the whole Cinavia thing seems more like a minor inconvenience than a big deal and just some odd way for the Bluray consortium to encourage users to buy something other than a Bluray player for playing video.

[RedFox 1]

Not really. All players I own completely ignore Cinavia. So all the communities are all about you? I said it was big new for the communities. Myabe there are few people that may interested. Who knows? Weird things happen.

[gonca]

Here is a link to a couple of longer samples

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/371243-Slysoft-has-released-their-solution-for-Cinavia-removal?p=2384758&viewfull=1#post2384758

[Sparktank]

Here is a link to a couple of longer samples

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/371243-Slysoft-has-released-their-solution-for-Cinavia-removal?p=2384758&viewfull=1#post2384758

Downloaded those samples and can immediately hear the difference.

I have to agree "broken" is definitely the appropriate term.
It sounds like it's being processed through a hollow tube for the non-dialogue frequency range of audio.

I imagine if you force yourself to sit through the movie like that, you'll get used to it and it won't matter.

It's a decent baby step, however.
I'm sure 5 or 10 years from now there will be a more apt solution wihtout destroying much of the audio's 'perceptive' quality.

Those who are desperate will call this out of a desperate measure, I'm certain.

[Chetwood]

So all the communities are all about you? I said it was big new for the communities.
So all the communities are all about you?

[DrinkLyeAndDie]

Not really. All players I own completely ignore Cinavia.

You != everyone.

Just because this has no impact on you doesn't make it any less of a story. Lucky you for owning devices that don't care about Cinavia. I don't, either, but many others do and I see people constantly trying to find older Blu-ray players that don't check for Cinavia.

[gonca]

Updated software re did tests

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/371243-Slysoft-has-released-their-solution-for-Cinavia-removal?p=2384917&viewfull=1#post2384917

[Chetwood]

Just because this has no impact on you doesn't make it any less of a story.
Nor did I say that. I simply pointed out that it might not be as important as he seems to think it is. That's all.

[foxyshadis]

This is a quality-eroding bypass, not a break. Don't get my hopes up. A break would be the ability to perfectly pinpoint what's being detected and adjust it just enough to avoid detection. This is a step in the right detection, but a break will never come until the specs and implementation are fully known.

[setarip_old]

I, for one, am pleased to see that after all this time has passed, the community is still actively seeking a cure for Cinavia, if only to prove that it can be done - and then await the next "latest and greatest" protection.

[Chetwood]

Absolutely, but from what I've read so far the quality just isn't good enough and I doubt it ever will be.

[Furiousflea]

This is a quality-eroding bypass, not a break. Don't get my hopes up. A break would be the ability to perfectly pinpoint what's being detected and adjust it just enough to avoid detection. This is a step in the right detection, but a break will never come until the specs and implementation are fully known.

I think this is a bit misleading.
The whole concept works on certain bits being packed within the audio stream, an audio stream that is technically "correct".
Cinavia cannot be broken by rearranging bits as it will break the CRC of the stream in case of DTSHD/TrueHD for example.

What could be done right now, is not forcing the output as a lossy DD stream, which has only been done in a consumerist vein move.

Slysoft could easily enough just decode to LPCM and optionally allow end user to provide their own paid for DTSHD encoder for example, perfectly doable right now.

Mods on slysoft site have implied that the butchered audio produced at the moment is only a stopgap...

[BoMbY]

The first part of the Cinavia System Specification was posted here, btw: https://wikileaks.org/sony/docs/05/docs/Cinavia/Cinavia%20System%20Specification%20Part%201%20%284219-0001%2000N%20v1.2%29.pdf

If they have lifted other parts from Sony, they have not been posted yet.

[foxyshadis]

I think this is a bit misleading.
The whole concept works on certain bits being packed within the audio stream, an audio stream that is technically "correct".
Cinavia cannot be broken by rearranging bits as it will break the CRC of the stream in case of DTSHD/TrueHD for example.

What could be done right now, is not forcing the output as a lossy DD stream, which has only been done in a consumerist vein move.

Slysoft could easily enough just decode to LPCM and optionally allow end user to provide their own paid for DTSHD encoder for example, perfectly doable right now.

Mods on slysoft site have implied that the butchered audio produced at the moment is only a stopgap...

A Cinavia removal playback filter could easily detect its presence and remove it in flight, so no re-encoding is necessarily required... obviously if your decoder is the Cinavia detector, like a stock PS3, you don't have that opportunity. Hopefully Slysoft does allow lossless eventually. But what I mean by a proper break is the ability to read the actual watermark, so that every detected part of it is adjusted.

I do realize that since it's a raw stream artifact, not a compressed stream one, that decoding is required, but a complete "break" still requires full knowledge of what it is. This is, as you say, just a stopgap.