BD-RB 3D output format: In-Mux or .ssif

[Sharc]

I understand that the default 3D output format is in-mux.

How can I change to .ssif? From changes.txt v0.47.04 I found the hidden option FORCE_INMUX_3D=0, however it is not listed in the hiddenopts.txt. Has this option been removed? Would I also have to set OUTPUT_3D_ISO=1?

Is there any disadvantage with the .ssif structure? Is it only available for movie-only backups, or does it require more space on the final disc?

[jdobbs]

The only way to create SSIF output is to use OUTPUT_3D_ISO=1. SSIF format can only be used for movie-only encodes.

There's really no advantage one way or the other. SSIF and in-mux are both 100% compliant with the BD-3D standard. But, the SSIF structure requires a method in which data is redundantly duplicated (virtually via pointers) in both the M2TS and SSIF files. That makes it difficult to manage when attempting to work with it on you hard drive. You'll notice that copying a 3D disc to your hard-drive can result in folders that are over 80GB (from a 50GB source). That's because the virtually duplicated data is no longer "virtual".

TSMUXER only supports non-duplicated SSIF output to ISO in movie-only mode.

[Sharc]

Thank you for the explanations.
The reason why I was stumbling over this is because my LG standalone plays in-mux 3D files as 2D only. Not even sure whether this came with the latest FW update, or due to some incompatibility with the TV. It plays .ssif structures ok as 3D, but as you wrote I would be loosing the Quick-menus and the extras when I have to re-mux the existing discs to .ssif "movie-only". Clearly this is not a bug or problem of BD-RB.
When I stream the in-mux .m2ts file directly from HD to the TV, the playback in 3D is fine, so the culprit is definitely with the standalone. Bad luck.

[jdobbs]

I think there's something else at work. It's unlikely a certified standalone player from a well-known manufacturer would not play in-mux 3D properly.

Try playing a commercial copy of AVATAR if you have it. I know sections of that disc use in-mux as well.

[Sharc]

Avatar (blue bird) plays fine. But the disc I have is SSIF. Interestingly though, MediaInfo reports for the base and dependend .m2ts 2 video streams each. The dependent .m2ts does however not play on its own, so it is truly dependent, whereas the "base" seems to be in-mux.
It looks to me like Avatar is double stitched: SSIF plus in-mux, and my standalone just takes the SSIF route.

Edit:
Another observation:
- The 3D in-mux plays ok when the original menu is kept, i.e. for full backups or movie plus menu backups.
- The 3D in-mux plays as 2D only for movie-only backups or Quick-play backups, i.e. when the original menu is not included.

Perhaps this is just an odditiy of my player???

[jdobbs]

Avatar (blue bird) plays fine. But the disc I have is SSIF. Interestingly though, MediaInfo reports for the base and dependend .m2ts 2 video streams each. The dependent .m2ts does however not play on its own, so it is truly dependent, whereas the "base" seems to be in-mux.
It looks to me like Avatar is double stitched: SSIF plus in-mux, and my standalone just takes the SSIF route.

Edit:
Another observation:
- The 3D in-mux plays ok when the original menu is kept, i.e. for full backups or movie plus menu backups.
- The 3D in-mux plays as 2D only for movie-only backups or Quick-play backups, i.e. when the original menu is not included.

Perhaps this is just an odditiy of my player???Thanks for the hint. I'll look and see if I may be mucking things up for 3D when doing Quick-Menus. But I don't see how movie-only could be an issue.

[jdobbs]

Just as an FYI: On Avatar the main feature uses an SSIF file. But pretty much every other 3D feature on the disc (including the menus) use in-mux 3D.

[Sharc]

.... But I don't see how movie-only could be an issue.
Absolutely, my mistake: movie-only are ok.
I did a few more tests and it boils down to those with the Quick-play menu which are not recogniszed as 3D by the player.
(I am always using the original backdrop for the Quick menu if this should matter).

[jdobbs]

Ahhh... that's good. I may have the answer, but I'll need to test it.

[jdobbs]

Absolutely, my mistake: movie-only are ok.
I did a few more tests and it boils down to those with the Quick-play menu which are not recogniszed as 3D by the player.
(I am always using the original backdrop for the Quick menu if this should matter).Good catch. Because the menus are 2D, the disc started in 2D mode (for the menu). So when a 3D playlist begins, there has to be an HDMV "SetOutputMode" command inserted before playback in order to change it to 3D output mode.

I've fixed it for the next release.

[Sharc]

Good catch. Because the menus are 2D, the disc started in 2D mode (for the menu). So when a 3D playlist begins, there has to be an HDMV "SetOutputMode" command inserted before playback in order to change it to 3D output mode.

I've fixed it for the next release.
Excellent. Thank you.

Edit:
Confirmed that Quick-play 3D playback works now with v0.50.05 :-)