Howto encode a 1080 60i

[bedmakaveli]

Hello everyone,
It's been a while that i don't do an encode, and now i just want to start again with the worst source i think :D.
I've never do an encode of interlaced material, but reading some articles, i have to restore it to a 30p with a deinterlace filter.
How can I check if it all a 2:3 pulldown?
How can i restore to a 24p?
How can i do with the speed audio?
The source is Ghost In the Shell - Stand Alone complex (anime), i can supply a sample of all the material for a check.

Thanks in advance to all who will be patient with me :stupid:

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I've never do an encode of interlaced material, but reading some articles, i have to restore it to a 30p with a deinterlace filter.

Not necessarily.

If it's "true" interlaced video with 30 "interlaced frames" per second (60 fields per second), you should probably apply a good "bobbing" filter to get 60 progressive frames per second in order to keep the full temporal resolution. QTGMC is your friend here! Deinterlacing to 30 progressive frames per second is the inferior solution, because it will discard half of the temporal resolution and makes motion look jerky.

And of course you can always decide to keep your interlaced footage interlaced and just encode it as interlaced - which will then require deinterlacing at playback time (but that might be an acceptable solution).

Last but not least, if it's not "true" interlaced but Telecine, what you need is an IVTC (Inverse-Telecine) filter, not a deinterlacing/bobbing filter!

How can I check if it all a 2:3 pulldown?

If it looks like interlaced, but an IVTC filter can fix it, it was "3:2-Pull-down" (Telecine). Otherwise it's probably "true" interlaced (or something weird).

How can i restore to a 24p?

It depends.

If it's actually Telecine'd, then it could be "soft" or "hard" 3:2-Pull-down (details (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine#Soft_and_hard_telecine)). In the former case you just need to set the "force film" flag for the decoder to get progressive frames at 24 fps. In the latter case, apply an IVTC filter!

And if it's "true" interlaced, you need to apply a deinterlacing/bobbing filter. But that will give you 60 or 30 fps. There's no easy and "clean" conversion to 24 fps then.

How can i do with the speed audio?

Messing with the audio "speed" should only be required for converting 25 fps PAL to 24 fps Film, or vice versa.

The source is Ghost In the Shell - Stand Alone complex (anime), i can supply a sample of all the material for a check.

If you see "ghost" artifacts, I think "de-blending" is the thing you need to look into. The anime experts will give a more concrete suggestion ;)

[huhn]

this is an anime so there is a chance this anime is telecine with 2:3 and 2;2 and i would say these are the worst sources possible the best thing you can do in this case is a VFR ivtc.

and some animes are true 30 fps so only a field match for safety is recommended. toei animation uses this a lot (one piece/precure).
so you should check this. i don't know a tool that says you how this is done i do this by looking at the frame and by using MadVR IVTC and see what type of cadence it detects and if it changes.
i'm not aware of a anime source where deinterlacing is the best choice.

[nixo]

IIRC the credits should be 30p while the actual episodes are straight film. Season 2 should be film all the way through.
VFR would be the way to go, I'd think.

--
Nikolaj

[Motenai Yoda]

gits's bd are not well detelecined then upscaled then telecined...

[nixo]

The Italian BDs? The Japanese BDs are supposed to be good (but very expensive).

--
Nikolaj

[Motenai Yoda]

all gits's bd should arise from the same master. :D

[mp3dom]

Final output from IT/JP BDs is exactly the same. GITS SAC is 30p on the opening (the one made in full CG), 23.98 on all the other parts. SAC 2nd GIG is 23.98, but in the opening the credits movements are 30p so you can fully IVTC if you accept some jerky credits movements (not so much disturbing, anyway). On both series, there's some chroma problems due to the way it was upscaled by japanese.

[Motenai Yoda]

Final output from IT/JP BDs is exactly the same.
Didn't you use a different (with more dithering) encoder?

On both series, there's some chroma problems due to the way it was upscaled by japanese.
Yep but the "chroma not linked to luma" problem seems me to be more an ivtc or at least a decimation problem.

IIRC on r2j dvds, at least on first ep, tdecimate gave me some 30p parts (about the size of 5/10 frames)

[mp3dom]

Didn't you use a different (with more dithering) encoder?
I've used the same as the japanese ones, SBMV enabled. Masters were "freezed". Can't operate on them (ivtc or debilinear for example), only plain encode.


Yep but the "chroma not linked to luma" problem seems me to be more an ivtc or at least a decimation problem.

There are frames where luma and chroma are shifted. It should be possible to fix it but I haven't investigate too much, since I was obliged to not touch the source.

[benwaggoner]

Also, I'd like to make a plea for calling 30 interlaced frames "30i" not "60i." 60i makes it sound a lot better than it really is :). There are only 30 frames a second, in it is a PITA to get full 60 images a second in high quality during playback. Also, for Level requirements, it is the fps that matters. Level 4.0 can do 1080 in 30p or 30i, but you need Level 4.2 to do 60p.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[huhn]

isn't there something official about this?
with 30i we now nothing it could be interlaced with 60 fields, telecine with 2:2, 3:2, or something even more strange

[Sharc]

isn't there something official about this?
with 30i we now nothing it could be interlaced with 60 fields, telecine with 2:2, 3:2, or something even more strange
Well, even 60i does not clarify this any better.

I strongly agree with benwaggoner's proposal to stick to the agreement that the number represents the frames per second, and the "i" just indicates that the video has been encoded as interlaced. I think this is in line with the definitions in the standards - as much or little I know...
The variants like pulldown, telecine or progressive encoded as interlaced will eventually have to be determined by analyzing the stream anyway.

[mp3dom]

But every tape out there has 60i/50i wrote on the label. Look at Digibetas, HDCAM, HDCAM-SR and so on. They use 60i to indicate 30 interlaced frames per second. Also, every (customized) logsheet I've seen so far (almost from 20 different US/JP different providers) follows this convention.

[Sharc]

Interesting. There seems also to exist a convention according to this post of Didée (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1581009&postcount=8). Anyway, we'll have to analyze or guess ...

[huhn]

i normally use 30i 60f

i created a 60i 120f file and said true 60i. long story short no one know what i'm mean with it... and i used 30i for 30i 60f in the same post.

but i think we need a new thread for this. benwaggoner think about it.

[bedmakaveli]

Hello guys,
sorry for be away so much time but my work in this period is taking all of my free time :(
I've to thanks Lord Mulder, your explanation has been very appreciated, thank you for all the info.
In these days I'll do some test and let you know the results.

Thank you all, very.