DVD to MKV conversion woes (tearing?)

[RowaN]

I'm converting a DVD I own to MKV (h264) using Handbrake. All fine except I noticed that when I play back the MKV (using Media Player Classic Home Cinema), interlaced tearing(?) is visible on pans, whereas this is not a problem in the original MPEG2 files of the DVD. Is this likely to be a problem with the way Handbrake encoded the video, or something else?

I encoded it keeping the same aspect ratio (specified in the meta data) and the same resolution and frame rate.

The DVD in question is a documentary, "The Golden Girls Lifetime Intimate Portrait Series" and the video stream has these properties:

MPEG2 Video 720x480 (4:3) 29.97fps [V: English [eng] (mpeg2 main, yuv420p, 720x480)]

Here is an enlarged screenshot from the MKV to better show the problem I am trying to explain:

http://i.snag.gy/J5rj1.jpg

Thanks in advance!

[Guest]

It's just interlacing and it *is* there on the DVD. You need to add deinterlacing if you want progressive output.

If you insist it isn't on the DVD, then please post a link to a fragment of the VOB, which you can cut with DGSplit.

[CWR03]

This is tearing:

http://bitwiredblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/71.jpg

[RowaN]

OK, thats good sounds like I don't need to do a re-encode then.

But just wondering why playback looks different between the DVD and the MKV. Perhaps there is a setting related to deinterlacing in the software decoders that differs between the two formats?

[Groucho2004]

But just wondering why playback looks different between the DVD and the MKV.
I assume that you encoded as progressive so your playback software/device does not apply de-interlacing.

[RowaN]

I assume that you encoded as progressive so your playback software/device does not apply de-interlacing.

Deinterlace was set to "OFF" in Handbrake when I encoded.

[Groucho2004]

Deinterlace was set to "OFF" in Handbrake when I encoded.
That only means that you did not de-interlace your video. So, you did not de-interlace and you encoded as progressive (still making assumptions since the info given is limited). Therefore, your player "thinks" it's progressive material.

[RowaN]

That only means that you did not de-interlace your video. So, you did not de-interlace and you encoded as progressive (still making assumptions since the info given is limited). Therefore, your player "thinks" it's progressive material.

I didn't see an option to specify between progressive vs interlaced for the encoding in Handbrake. Here is a screenshot of the settings I used:

http://i.snag.gy/3TiYU.jpg

[Groucho2004]

I didn't see an option to specify between progressive vs interlaced for the encoding in Handbrake. Here is a screenshot of the settings I used:

http://i.snag.gy/3TiYU.jpg
I have never used handbrake. Maybe it's in advanced options or you have to specify it as an "extra option".

[RowaN]

I have never used handbrake. Maybe it's in advanced options or you have to specify it as an "extra option".

Nothing in the advanced tab looks like its related to interlacing (http://i.snag.gy/orwNu.jpg).

Is there a different program you would recommend to do the job properly?

[Guest]

Nothing in the advanced tab looks like its related to interlacing (http://i.snag.gy/orwNu.jpg). See here:

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/DeinterlacingGuide

[RowaN]

See here:

https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/DeinterlacingGuide

That guide assumes that interlacing is horrible and that you will want to deinterlace all content. That is not my situation however. I don't want to convert this interlaced content to progressive. I prefer to maintain the original presentation. I had the same problem years ago and thats when I gave up trying to convert DVDs to MKV. I think I'll give up again until software becomes more user friendly.

[Groucho2004]

I prefer to maintain the original presentation.
Have a look here (http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/344902-Detelecine-decomb-issues?p=2151515&viewfull=1#post2151515).

[Guest]

That guide assumes that interlacing is horrible and that you will want to deinterlace all content. That is not my situation however. I don't want to convert this interlaced content to progressive. I prefer to maintain the original presentation. I had the same problem years ago and thats when I gave up trying to convert DVDs to MKV. I think I'll give up again until software becomes more user friendly. You want to leave it interlaced but then you complain that you see combing?!

You'll have to enable deinterlacing in your player then.

[Groucho2004]

You want to leave it interlaced but then you complain that you see combing?!

You'll have to enable deinterlacing in your player then.
I think the problem is that the encoded stream is flagged as progressive and the player therefore does not de-interlace. I suppose the player could be forced to de-interlace but the proper way would be to encode interlaced.
I could be wrong with my assumptions, we don't even know what the OP uses for playback.

[Guest]

OP needs to give us a sample of his encode so we can see how it was encoded.

Found on the web:

---
Interlaced handbrake 0.9.8 support: 1) set to dvd preset 2) add :tff OR :bff in the advanced tab, put at end (append). 3) turn off all filters: set to off, set fps to same as source and constant. Use mediainfo and set to sheet to find if tff or bff 4) feel free to set resolution, etc

This will allow your TV or device to perform the de-interlacing which is far superior than removing half the motion resolution as 98% people and/or software encoders do by default.
---

[RowaN]

Heres a link to a 30MB chunk of what I think is the source. I say think, because MakeMKV quickly transformed the entire DVD to a MPEG2 MKV file, of which this is a sample. So I'm guessing its just a remux of the DVD not a re-encode:

https://db.tt/jI4c3qNX

To attempt to explain my perceived problem a bit better: when I play the original DVD or MPEG2 file (above) the motion of movement is smooth and fluid (what I call 60fps) but when I watch the h264 MKV version it is as if the framerate is cut in half - motion is more "film like". Heres a sample of said h264 encode: https://db.tt/5sMoOy9Y

I'm unsure if I've encoded it wrong, or my playback decoder is simply handling MPEG2 vs h264 differently. I'm using Media Player Classic Home Cinema to play.

p.s. neuron2 - HandBrake does not seem to have a "DVD" preset as mentioned above. Not in the latest version at least.

Edit: Groucho2004 thanks for that link, I will investigate that.
Edit2: yes adding "tff" to the advanced options seems to preserve the smoothness of the original. How can I tell for sure its still interlaced? Mediainfo doesnt seem to report that for mpeg4 streams.

FWIW here is a sample of what I now believe to be the properly encoded interlaced MKV:
https://db.tt/bXgkippI

[Asmodian]

Mediainfo reports your stream Scan type is MBAFF, this is means it is an interlaced encode (interlaced could be MBAFF or PAFF). Scan type would be "Progressive" if it was progressive.

tff seems to be the correct way to do it, at least with top field first interlaced video.

You also seem to have left out the Transfer characteristics, both Color primaries and Matrix coefficients are set to BT.601 while Transfer characteristics is BT.709.

[RowaN]

A small word of caution regarding Handbrake - when you switch to "advanced" video options, your profile selection from the non-advanced video settings does not appear to get carried over to the advanced tab. E.g. in the video tab you have selected "Very fast" .. then click advanced.. I think the default advanced settings are much slower. Encoding the above video took around 13 hours which is about 4x as long as the initial encode I did without using advanced options.

So, next time I think when I switch to advanced I'll add "--x264-preset veryfast" or whatever after "tff". I'm hoping that setting the preset like that won't wipe out the tff interlacing.